Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: HJM on November 15, 2005, 08:39:54 PM
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Anybody seen the Seymour Duncan interview in December Guitar Buyer? No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...
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Anybody seen the Seymour Duncan interview in December Guitar Buyer? No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
so it`s just a figment of our imagination then !!
:D 8)
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No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...
this sentence reads as utter nonsense to the general public...
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No humbuckers were ever scatterwound apparently...
this sentence reads as utter nonsense to the general public...
Let me see if I can help you, then :)
From what I have gleaned, SD has always used a machine to wind his pickups. In other words, they are not handwound, as Bare Knuckle pups are.
This is really PhilKing's line of country, tho ...
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I believe that the first PAFs were handwound in the 50s, until Gibson was able to afford to buy the automatic shut off machines which were used in the 60s. Strikes me that Seymour has spent a fortune on an original Gibson winder and doesn't want people to know it was used for the weaker sounding 60s PAFs!
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Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s? Or is that internet mythology?
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apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..
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apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..
Careful...... :lol:
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now that's only Duncan Designed
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At the moment, I could care less about what Duncan does or says. I've got BKP's and I'm not planning to buy any Duncan pups.
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meh, even before i'd tried handwound pickups, i never liked duncans...
and now i've tried swinesheads, i hate duncans
i can only wonder how great bk's are :cry:
i will get a set of bk's soon! :twisted:
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Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s? Or is that internet mythology?
Sewing machines, yes. It's a documented fact.
Turntables, I've never heard of.
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Can anyone confirm the story that Leo Fender modified record players and sewing machines to act as winders in the 50s? Or is that internet mythology?
Sewing machines, yes. It's a documented fact.
Turntables, I've never heard of.
Imagine turnig a bicycle into a pickup winding machine. PDT_049 :idiot2:
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78rpm would take a while to wind a pickup!!
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is it me or is the forum an hour ahead of the actual time??
either that or i've been at work an hour longer than i thought, or am seeing future posts before they happen :p
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There's an option in profile to set timezone I think!
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Seymour Duncan used an old record player to re-wind his own pickups back in the day.
I don't think he ever manufactured pickups using that method tho, as like HJM said, it'd take ages to wind 1 pickup :)
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well, yeah- a pickup has what- 5 or 6 thousand winds?
5000/78
= 64minutes, or just over an hour... :twisted:
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is it me or is the forum an hour ahead of the actual time??
either that or i've been at work an hour longer than i thought, or am seeing future posts before they happen :p
All times GMT + 1 hour.
Don't worry, you're not working longer. :)
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apparantly, SD used vietnamese children to wind them with their teeth, until Nike offered the kids more money to make cr@ppy trainers instead..
Careful...... :lol:
Yeah, Nike's have reasonable quality control... ;)
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I believe PAF's were hand wound until the late 50's, when Gibson bought two automated machines, even then they still hand wound some. Some people will try to tell you otherwise but we know that this is true.
As a side note, No PAF's were made after September 1960. They became Patent number pickups. Shorter Alnico V magnets were used and the coils were symmetrically wound.
Seymour is correct in saying that no PAF’s were scatter wound (not intentionally any way)
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Seymour Duncan used an old record player to re-wind his own pickups back in the day.
I don't think he ever manufactured pickups using that method tho, as like HJM said, it'd take ages to wind 1 pickup :)
Yeah, I like this idea though...stick on a record, sit back and listen to Duane Eddy or whoever was popular, sit back and by the time the album's finished, the record player has wound your pickup for you! Awesome! :)
I believe PAF's were hand wound until the late 50's
Seymour is correct in saying that no PAF’s were scatter wound (not intentionally any way)
I thought scatter winding/hand winding were the same thing? I don't pay too much attention to the technical stuff I must say, for me something either sounds good or it doesnt (simple!), but are scatter winding and hand winding two different processes then?
I always assumed that they were the same because the winding was randomly scattered as a byproduct of winding by hand...
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Scatter winding can only be done by hand, but not all hand wound pickups are scatterwound.... less confused? I thought not!
Scatter winding a pickup is quite a time intensive proccess, so not many hand winders actually do it, but the tonal benefits are more than worth it.
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Not sure that's entirely true - I'll confuse things a little more. With a computer and various suitable tools, you can program a machine (built with a record player, for example) to scatterwind the pickup, so no human hand has to have touched it, yet it would still be completely random/scatterwound. Me and my dad were going to do this at one point, but then I just decided to build guitars.
So scatterwound pickups don't have to be made by hand, and hand-winding pickups doesn't necessarily mean their scatterwound. Nit-picking, or what? 8)
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is scatterwinding just winding it randomly then? what difference does it make? why don't you just get a machine to do it?
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Scatter winding CAN NOT be done by machine, all the big companies have tried it, and it doesn’t work. If it did, don’t you think some one would be doing it?
Computers cannot replicate a human brain or any of its functions, fact.
No offence intended, but you can’t make statements like 'computers can be programmed to scatter wind', if you've never scatter wound a pickup before yourself.
Sorry to contradict you so strongly, but I spend every day of the week winding pickups and I can assure you it is not something that can be programmed into a computer.
Scatter winding isn’t just random winding, it’s an integral part of the winding process where the wind pattern is broken down and the uniform layering is separated, stopping capacitance building in the coil.
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In theory you could map the movements of your arm while it moves and then repeat the pattern perfectly, but it would loose the random human element that everybody wants with a handmade product. Scatterwound pickups are all very slightly different, I like that, a machine would struggle to do that part of the equation.
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i think (and i could be wrong :oops: ) that hand wound pickups are more random than machine wound, but still not as random as intentionally scatterwound
so, basically, as has been said before, all scatterwound pickups are handwound, but not all handwound pickups are scatterwound :twisted:
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And a lot of so called hand winders use automated shut-off machines like gibson did....
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^i know, i realise that "handwound" can be very ambiguous- what the winder considers handwound might not be what you or i do...
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I like to think that some one somewhere is sat winding wire round a bobbin by hand, no machines to turn it for them, one turn at a time.... :lol:
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^ do bk even do that?
(no flaming please, i don't know, i'm just asking!)
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Right, I found out the dates today.
Gibson purchased 2 automated winders in 1959 and so from 57-59 they were hand winding. In 61 they became fully automated as proper winding machines were purchased.
No one in their right mind would wrap wire round a bobbin by hand!
Many people call hand winding “hand guided winding” as they believe a hand wound means wrapping the wire round a turn at a time whilst turning the bobbin by hand.
Do you call hand made guitars, hand assisted? You don’t see any luthier’s rubbing the shape of a body out with the palm of their hand and scratching the routs out with their nails, they use tools just like us, In our case it’s a winder to spin the bobbin while we hold the wire between our fingers!
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gasp!!! i am abslutely horrified!! i will be returning my "hand wound" pickups immediately and demanding a full refund! i feel so cheated, thinking i was enjoying hand made quality. i just went and tried them out again, and suddenly, knowing what i now know, they sound terrible!
rest assured, i will be contacting trading standards. and watchdog. and which magazine. you liars are going down!!!
:shock:
:twisted: :evil: :P
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Right, I found out the dates today.
Gibson purchased 2 automated winders in 1959 and so from 57-59 they were hand winding. In 61 they became fully automated as proper winding machines were purchased.
No one in their right mind would wrap wire round a bobbin by hand!
Many people call hand winding “hand guided winding” as they believe a hand wound means wrapping the wire round a turn at a time whilst turning the bobbin by hand.
Do you call hand made guitars, hand assisted? You don’t see any luthier’s rubbing the shape of a body out with the palm of their hand and scratching the routs out with their nails, they use tools just like us, In our case it’s a winder to spin the bobbin while we hold the wire between our fingers!
i've read the interview (bought the mag last night)
and i realise that you use machines to assist you! as long as they sound good... :lol:
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Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:
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Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:
man, i'd pay extra for one of those- the extra palm sweat might help the tone and artificially age it or something :roll:
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Palm rubbed guitars...... :lol:
man, i'd pay extra for one of those- the extra palm sweat might help the tone and artificially age it or something :roll:
Err..id rather sweat on it myself!!
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Err..id rather sweat on it myself!!
i know i was being sarcastic, and sending a little dig at gibson/fender's "aged" finishes... :twisted:
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All handwinders use a machine to spin the bobbin, Its the only way to do it.
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All handwinders use a machine to spin the bobbin, Its the only way to do it.
we know, we're only kidding
you should see how often i recommend bkp's on the other forums i frequent (man, i can't believe i used frequent as a verb :( )
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
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Seymour Duncan was in my local guitar shop the other day, he turned up unexpected and I missed him by about ten minutes ..... DOH !!
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
:lol:
i have a degree as well, that allows me to use words like "frequent"- and i still feel dirty for using it... ;)
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
there's nothing wrong with a bit of verbosity... :D
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x
It means any word not found in a dictionary.
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x
It means any word not found in a dictionary.
That rules out the dirty words then.
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man, you have A levels! you probably use words like "loquacious" and "portentuous" in everyday speech :lol:
Umm... what does loquacious mean? My dictionary doesn't know it. :x
I think it means 'talkative'. Maybe even 'verbose'. :wink:
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I think it means 'talkative'. Maybe even 'verbose'. :wink:
Thanks. :)