Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MDV on December 11, 2009, 10:17:28 PM
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I know, million ways to skin that cat, and many books can and have been writen on it
But how do you do it, in general?
Some people might find this thread usefull (myself included!). I'll kick off:
I have two basic ways that I use very different processes for: modellers and properly, with amps.
When recording with a modeller, I monitor everything through my monitors. I dont bother with headphones. I line its analogue outs into a souncard, whatever one I happen to be using, and program up a few drums and set them to loop. Then I set the modeller to deliver as tight a sound as I can find that gain wise is the hot side of crunchy. I tweak it while listening to me playing two stereo panned signals of the same guitar over looping drums and tweak it till I like it, or rather till I hate it as little as possible. I then 4-track, minimum, everything, two of all passages panned hard.
Advantages:
You can record well into the night and not bug anyone. Doubly so if you do it with headphones
Its easier to find a sound that you dont utterly hate quite quickly.
Its much simpler to set up.
Its more consistent; there are fewer things to go wrong with time, you just store your settings and its the same every time.
Disadvantages:
Try as I might I cant get the things to sound really good. Passable is about the best available. Maybe 3/4 of the way *there* but that last 1/4 is so extremely important.
Because of the shorcomings in the sound; the general trends of lack of depth, thin staticy top end, I generally feel forced to 4-track every rhythm part and harmony, 2 either side. This is not easy, and I dont terribly like the sound of 4 tracking in general anyway; I find it sacrifices tightness and liveliness for thickness.
And with amp/s, speakers and mics. I happen to be doing this right now, and just taking a break, hence the thread.
This is probably gonna read like a lecture/turorial, and there arent any rules to this, this is just what I've found/researched and what I subsequently do - preface everything in you head as you read it with plenty of "imo"s and "you could try"s and "what works for me is"'s!
Its probably easier to start with the biggest problem here. Its a much more sonically complex process (to get decent sounding metal guitars at least, which you all probably realise by know is what I generally do with gutiars :lol:)
The problem, in my case and probably in most peoples cases is the room. Youre using mics and speakers, and mics WILL 'hear' the room with any mortal mics level of off axis rejection (you could try recording with shotgun mics I suppose), even close miced on a loud amp (the reflections are proportionately louder and the sound right at the face of the speaker is still affected by them equally). This is all exacerbated heavily by a small room, doubly so a symmetrical one. The reason for that is the rooms walls are close so the reflections interfere more strongly with the sound from the mic/s and the rooms resonant modes are higher so they are actually (possibly/probably) in the range of a guitar tone. These problems get bigger the lower you tune (I'm down in drop A sharp so it aint easy :lol:). I happen to know, from testing with frequency sweeps, that the strongest resonant mode of my room is round 130hz, so I know that I need to control this region very carefully, and it helps tremendously to know that and be able to identify it in the sound.
You also have to place at least one mic (two is a nightmare, trust me; you cant just throw them up there!).
First, the location of the cab in the room is very important. It should be at or as close as you can get it to the place in the room where the low end swells the most. This is an antinodal point in the rooms resonance and placing the cab there will give you the most even and clean low end response available from the room (add acoustic treatment to that as well). Put it on an isolation pad of some sort as well.
Then theres the reflections. I set up a little bunch of barriers/reflection attenuators at significant points round the cab to cut down what gets back to the mics. I use whatever I have available for this. Currently it consists of two rectangular guitar cases, some acoustic foam, a couple of planks with more foam glued to them, a duvet and some dining chairs! Dont forget the z axis! You hav a ceiling as well, and refelctions need to be controlled from that. I also have the cab fire down an archway that joins two rooms. Its about 12 or 13m long and has a load of junk at the end of it that break up reflections. It also happens to be (luck does work for you sometimes) that this point is the best available to me in the room for the low end. The long fire I think allows the sound to 'breathe', which means (to me at least) that you arent getting any/as much boxy midrange and second set of weird reflections and dulled sound that you can get from actually fully encasing the cab. If a long and relatively non-reflective line of fire isnt available then completely encasing the cab and speakers is something I find preferable to the sound of a small rooms reflections. You can generally control the mid and low mid hump you get (which is an overly resonant and unpleasing one) with EQ, or control it to some degree at least. There is no equivelent control for the reflections of the room, or none that I'm aware of.
I tend to place mics near the dust cap but not on it and right up against the grill. They aim just a little out of the boudary between the cap and rest of the speaker, but theres no wong place to put a mic, it just happens to be that I tend to like the balance of low end and attack and top definition I get in that general area. YMMV. Actually YMWV. Which mic wise, I'm very fond of all mine stuck right infront of the cab: an SM57 (of course) an audix i5, an MD421 and an NT1A. In general, all things being equal, I'm more likely to go for the 421, then the i5 then the 57 and at least try (and usually fail to any satisfactory level) to use the NT1A as a second mic a bit further back. Sounds ok on its own, but not tight enough to be the only mic. Great for cleans, but I'm not talking about cleans here!
Then, I start with something I like in the room, right up near the speaker I'm going to record (oh, I picked my favourite speaker ages ago and you should too! Mines a V30, top row (in an ubercab with v30s and k100s in an X)) and make some pre-emptive adjustments to the sound, because I KNOW that the high gain (4 ish on channel 4 on a powerball) sound I like to play with wont record well. Or if it will, I have no idea how to do it. I drop the gain to about 1 to 2, and I drop the bass from about 4 to about 1 to 2 as well. These may or may not be final settings, it depends how I want this track to sound, but they're much better starting points. I like to max the preamp gain and keep the power low to maintain max tightness and attack. This is not generally better, as a rule, its just because I cant record at the best possible volume (utterly flame throwing to get speakers moving and the cab resonating) because I have neighbours. I dont find, with my particular amp, that dialing in a tonne of power distortion affects it much (in a positive way at least) until it starts to get REALLY loud, and the speakers are excursing, so its quite quiet for a 100W head through a 4x12 (about 95db at 1m direct at one speaker).
Then I totally forget that the sound in the room even exists. I no longer care about it in the least. Its dead to me. It can do whatever the $%&# it wants and will end up sounding however it ends up sounding. I do care, immensly, about the sound through the mic/s, and even more about that sound when doubled and mixed in particular with drums. The kick and toms are going to step on the low end and the cymbals and snare on the high end. From this point out, its ALL through headphones and in a rudmentary mix. Yes, I know the bass adds yet more complexity but I tend to do that last and force it to fit the gutiars :lol: (and a ;) to all the bassists out there). This may not be the best way, but thats how I've done it so far.
THEN I program some drums (like before), and through isolating headpones, I play along to it with the same stereo panning I had with the modellers, and I make iterative tweaks of settings, pedals, mic placement and sheilding till I think I'm getting somewhere. Then I start doing test tracks with real double tracks and make more tweaks. When I dont think its getting much better, I get on with tracking. Since theres a loud amp nearby I track through Senn HD25s, but lots of headphones can do the job so long as they attenuate a good 20db or so of ambient noise and you can actually listen to whats in the headphones.
Disadvantages:
The setup process is MUCH more involved and potentially expensive (topping out at buy a new house to get a better room :lol:).
The setup is less stable - bumb a mic and good luck getting the exact same sound back again (mark up your mic position on the cab! that helps at least, but there are still audiable errors in trying to put a mic back where it was).
Louder in the room, can bother neighbours.
Advantages:
The quality of sound that you *can* get exceeds that of a modeller considerably. More depth, more 3d, more natural, both in tone and the sense of space in the sound that you will still no doubt be left with after sheilding from reflections.
You only need double track. Its easier.
Oh, I also have a reamper (a radial x-amp) and cant recommend it highly enough. I have alas only used it far enough to get proof of concept on it, understand what I need to do with it, any additional effects it has on the sound and yada yada: I discovered when I passively split the signal when I first tried to use it during recording that passive signal splitting is a noisy $%&#er and I need a good DI&splitter as well: just relying on an instrument input on an interface isnt enough unfortunately. However, I've used it enough to recommend the shitee out of it. I cant wait to lay down the DIs for the song I'm doing now and use the reamper to let me wring the best tone I can find (for the track I'm recording now at least) out of my gear at a later date, without having to worry about take quality/tuning/string condition and so on and so forth.
Well, that was a HELL of a lot longer than I planned on it being. Oh well.
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Godamn phase problems. I think I need a total room recall :(. Try another cab location. Theres another way I record - very bloody annoyingly.
Edit - fixed. Or at least tollerable.
I want a "save as" option for my amp and pedal settings, mic location and all the gubbins I put round the place to control the sound!
Ok, I'll leave this now rather than turn it into a running commentary on my audio engineering troubles. (y'know, for its purpose, of people putting their styles/methods up)
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To answer the question at the top of the thread: not very well :)
I have a Rocktron VooduValve that I can record direct with. It's a decent, useable sound, but not great. Like you I find its big advantage is that you can use it at all hours without bothering anyone else.
I'd love to record with my Engl close mic'd but I absolutely suck at getting a good sound. None of the clips I've posted here even come [/i]close[/i] to capturing the great sound I get from this amp. I don't have the patience to experiment with mic placement etc, nor the time to spend doing it (with a full time job & 2 small children it's rare that I get more than a few hours at a time to myself). Also, recording with the amp in the same room makes it hard to follow the backing/click track through even the best headphones - ideally I'd have the amp in a separate room & listen to it on the monitors.
Aside from lack of ability.knowledge, those are my main problems...
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I'm not very picky with my recordings. So long as it sounds good enough then I don't care too much. My process is something like:
-write/program drums to fit riffs I have
-record a bassline
-record guitars
If I'm using a modeller I'll monitor it through my speakers, because it's nicer to play along and be able to hear your tone properly.
If mic'ing then I won't bother with any monitoring other than the drum track up through my speakers really loud. My amp is in the same room as the computer so theres no need. This does mean that theres a bit of the drum track in all my guitar tracks, but I cba to fix that haha. Don't have sound isolating headphones so I can't really go down that route to hear the drums.
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To answer the question at the top of the thread: not very well :)
I have a Rocktron VooduValve that I can record direct with. It's a decent, useable sound, but not great. Like you I find its big advantage is that you can use it at all hours without bothering anyone else.
I'd love to record with my Engl close mic'd but I absolutely suck at getting a good sound. None of the clips I've posted here even come [/i]close[/i] to capturing the great sound I get from this amp. I don't have the patience to experiment with mic placement etc, nor the time to spend doing it (with a full time job & 2 small children it's rare that I get more than a few hours at a time to myself). Also, recording with the amp in the same room makes it hard to follow the backing/click track through even the best headphones - ideally I'd have the amp in a separate room & listen to it on the monitors.
Aside from lack of ability.knowledge, those are my main problems...
I know what you mean about not capturing it in recording. Its a totally different thing though. With just playing, how you want it to sound to your ears in the room youre listening A: with ears, obviously, and mics dont pick up sound the same way (unless you have top class ribbon mics, they are apparently pretty close) and B: to the whole cab, and all of each speaker in it.
A miced sound is just a narrow window into that sound, from one small part of the speaker and right up close to it, where sound is doing crazy things. A close mic will never sound like the amp does to your ears a little ways back. Certainly not a dynamic one. One has to learn the sound of micing in general and kind of have 2 (at least) sounds that you enjoy/know what you like in/what works in the required setting: the sound in the room (inc stages and venues) with your normal settings (and probably small variations) and the sound through the mic/s
It is a pain listening through headphones, tom. Often I'll track something through the HD25s and it sounds fine, but I see problems through my Adams (which are FAR more revealing). Regular checks are required. Then referencing on other systems.
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This probably isn't much help but what kind of foam are you using? I saw a thing on TV ages ago about a super quiet room and all the walls were covered in foam squares with huge long vertical or horizontal spikes, this might have been in the Marshall factory, I'm sure you know of such stuff already.
Errrr why do people close mic amps instead of using ribbon mics?
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This probably isn't much help but what kind of foam are you using? I saw a thing on TV ages ago about a super quiet room and all the walls were covered in foam squares with huge long vertical or horizontal spikes, this might have been in the Marshall factory, I'm sure you know of such stuff already.
Errrr why do people close mic amps instead of using ribbon mics?
The one in the Marshall factory is for electrical testing I believe. Can't quite think of the right name, but its to pass the EU regs
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This probably isn't much help but what kind of foam are you using? I saw a thing on TV ages ago about a super quiet room and all the walls were covered in foam squares with huge long vertical or horizontal spikes, this might have been in the Marshall factory, I'm sure you know of such stuff already.
Errrr why do people close mic amps instead of using ribbon mics?
Mot ribbon mics cant take close micing.
The only one I know if (which is a long way from saying the only one!) is the royer R121. It costs about 1000 quid. Theres a reason that people still use 57s, E609s, E906s, i5s, MD421s etc etc etc, though - they are quite capable of sounding good. Nay, great. You just need to know how to use them (that includes controlling the sound of the room, settings on the amp and all the rest). A huge number of rock and metal albums are recorded with one or two SM57s, and thats been true for around as long as rock and metal have existed, and that, its worth remembering, is in pro studios where a there'll be a several grand in monitors, quite probably a 6 figure sum in outboard gear, the desk alone will probably be 10 grand at least - they can use any damned mic they please, and still use the same cheap dynamics that everyone uses.
Besides, mics are like pickups - its what works for the track, works with the amp, the speaker, the guitar, what works in the mix, what gets you closest to the sound in your head; all personal preference, there is no right answer. And a mic doesnt know what its recording. Wanna close mic metal guitars with a small diaphram condenser? Go for it. Might be amazing, depends how you do it.
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Oh, the foam is just some generic stuff I got from here
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/soundproofing/amw.htm
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This probably isn't much help but what kind of foam are you using? I saw a thing on TV ages ago about a super quiet room and all the walls were covered in foam squares with huge long vertical or horizontal spikes, this might have been in the Marshall factory, I'm sure you know of such stuff already.
Errrr why do people close mic amps instead of using ribbon mics?
The one in the Marshall factory is for electrical testing I believe. Can't quite think of the right name, but its to pass the EU regs
Anechoic chamber.
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Ben! You should have some great knowledge for this thread!
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Most ribbon mics cant take close micing.
Older ribbon mics are sensitive to air currents but handle high volume sources as well as most condenser mics. The aluminum ribbon Royer R121 is rated at 135dB SPL. The new generation ribbons using Crowley and Tripp nanotechnology are virtually indestructible
Check this ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jsuCgGBQ5A
guess that's why Shure bought them.
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If I'm doing any serious recording it's an SM57 in front of the speaker. Modelling preamps are handy for demos and late-night sessions but the sound from them is just horrible and unconvincing.
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I was thinking of buying a fractal audio Axe FX to take all the pain away from miking a tube amp. I haven't got a sound proofed room so there's no way I can krank up my amp to get it sound like it does in rehearsal. It has so many options and effects built into it, it's like a guitarists must have unit.
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I'm still using modellors - VOX Tonelab LE mainly - I find it's close enough for my purposes, a LOT easier, and there's no way I can record a valve amp here (environment not quiet enough, and the amp's to bluddy loud for everyone else!).
Having said that, I've just started playing through an amp again - got me one of those Vox AC4TV beasties. It's gorgeous, but still too damn loud, even on the 1/4 watt setting - although I am having some fun with it at the moment during the day while I'm off work and the neighbours aren't :D
One thing I've noticed on the "valve amp versus modellor" thing over the last couple of days is that, for me personally, it's not about whether one produces a better or more authentic tone - I can get that out of either, enough to suit my purposes anyway. It's more about how it makes me feel while I'm playing, and how it affects how I play. The valve amp up and cooking is a far more satisfying experience as a player, it definitely "responds" differently and takes a slightly different set of playing skills to obtain the same effect.
The VERY interesting thing I've discovered is when I've been playing the valve amp for a few hours and then switch back to the modellor and studio speakers - I find my playing has "improved" and the tones coming out of the modellor sound more "authentic" to me...
I know I'm not going to convince many/some of you of this (!), same as no-one's gonna convince me anymore that a well mic'd valve amp in a decent space will always be better... but I just thought I'd chuck it in the mix :D
Johnny - I was seriously tempted by the Axe FX a while back, but the GAS has worn off (and I'm not doing enough to justify spending that much at the moment...). I'd recommend, if you've not tried modelling that much yet, dipping a toe in with something cheaper (eg the Tonelab).
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I'm still using modellors - VOX Tonelab LE mainly - I find it's close enough for my purposes, a LOT easier, and there's no way I can record a valve amp here (environment not quiet enough, and the amp's to bluddy loud for everyone else!).
Having said that, I've just started playing through an amp again - got me one of those Vox AC4TV beasties. It's gorgeous, but still too damn loud, even on the 1/4 watt setting - although I am having some fun with it at the moment during the day while I'm off work and the neighbours aren't :D
One thing I've noticed on the "valve amp versus modellor" thing over the last couple of days is that, for me personally, it's not about whether one produces a better or more authentic tone - I can get that out of either, enough to suit my purposes anyway. It's more about how it makes me feel while I'm playing, and how it affects how I play. The valve amp up and cooking is a far more satisfying experience as a player, it definitely "responds" differently and takes a slightly different set of playing skills to obtain the same effect.
The VERY interesting thing I've discovered is when I've been playing the valve amp for a few hours and then switch back to the modellor and studio speakers - I find my playing has "improved" and the tones coming out of the modellor sound more "authentic" to me...
I know I'm not going to convince many/some of you of this (!), same as no-one's gonna convince me anymore that a well mic'd valve amp in a decent space will always be better... but I just thought I'd chuck it in the mix :D
Johnny - I was seriously tempted by the Axe FX a while back, but the GAS has worn off (and I'm not doing enough to justify spending that much at the moment...). I'd recommend, if you've not tried modelling that much yet, dipping a toe in with something cheaper (eg the Tonelab).
Truth!
I (still) think the TLLE is the best modeller going, especially for lower gain sounds (some clean stuff I recorded on it was accused by a sound engineer (a proper one that works in a big ass studio that makes big ass albums) of being 'album quality')
But, yes, the tone has to feel right to play as much as sound right to the ears. Well stated.
P.S. Most axe fx clips I hear sound like polystyrene; whats the big deal?
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I think I've heard some of Hunter's (Axe FX clips) that started getting me interested.
The thing is though, one man's "hey wow" is the other man's "jeez, did he really buy that?" :lol:
As you'll know, the secret of these modelling beasts is patience and listening. Get something you half like, save it and use it for a while. Take a copy and fiddle with it some more. Learn something on a another patch with a different amp, then take another copy of your first patch and see if that lesson applies here as well... quite often the biggest lessons seem to be "less-is-more", but sometimes you've even got to unlearn that...
From my experiences with the POD 2, the POD XT, and now the Tonelab LE, I'm fairly certain that the Axe would give more, and I probably could improve on what I get so far... but is it worth the several times more pricetag, and the extra time learning/fiddling? I reached the conclusion that the answer's no for me at the moment :lol:
Meanwhile, since my last post, the courier has arrived with Andrew's xmas pressie to hisself - a Danelectro Cool Cat CTO-1 (Transparent Overdrive) to go into the front of the AC4TV... oh yeah :D, now I understand what all the pedal-freaks are on about :lol:
I went for cheap and cheerful, checked out some threads here, and followed links to youtube demos... then when I tried to buy one, I was getting the impression they're about to get discontinued - so I ordered one quick when I found one yesterday.... So far, very happy - volume levels right down (when necessary) and pleasant crunchiness and strat bite abounds... still wouldn't use it for recording (might give it a try though), but it's great for dancing around the living room being Rory Gallagher :lol:
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P.S. Most axe fx clips I hear sound like polystyrene; whats the big deal?
I think part of the reason is you got all your fancy gear and so you've got better ears/frame of reference than folk like me
kind of in the same way my mate's lack of tube amp experience means he's got no frame of reference and so asks me about gear then don't listen and buys a metal zone to plug into his valvetronix (now he's selling the pedal a month later and getting a satch overdrive)
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Most of the metal clips I've heard from the AxeFX sound awesome. Low-medium gain aren't bad but not as good as a proper valve amp from what I've heard.
I do want to try one though, since mic'ing an amp is so much hassle to get right!
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The in studio uses are where it does well, plus the effects are supposed to be top notch too. It would be a wonderful thing to have :D
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P.S. Most axe fx clips I hear sound like polystyrene; whats the big deal?
I think part of the reason is you got all your fancy gear and so you've got better ears/frame of reference than folk like me
kind of in the same way my mate's lack of tube amp experience means he's got no frame of reference and so asks me about gear then don't listen and buys a metal zone to plug into his valvetronix (now he's selling the pedal a month later and getting a satch overdrive)
Theres nothing special about my ears or gear.
I've heard clips that sound *good*, and clips that sound better than anything I've made; I just dont hear this throwawayyourvalveampsandrackgear thing that people keep harping on about.
For perspective on the matter, I recently heard a clip of a peavey vypyr line out with impulses on it - it soundd better than anything I've heard from an axe FX. (and made me revisit my own vypyr, which I keep in the lounge as a lowly practice amp for while I'm doing stuff like this :lol:)
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Which reminds me - the vast majority of the quality of a recording rests in the hands, mind, ears, experience and resourcefulness of the Audio Engineer in question. To say that I'm a mediocre AE would be somewhere between overly charitable and laughable, fireface 800 and adam monitors or not.
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I'd never chop off my Koch for a modeller Mark! :lol: I've had it 4.5 years and it still amazes me.
There's so much to recording as you know only too well. If I can't record my Koch it all it's glory then I will just have to compromise. You can always record everything but the guitars and use a facility that allows for the holy grail of a kranked valve amp if its the only thing that works. I love the response of valve amps too and can't think of anything that can do it as well.
Some of Hunters clips sounded really good to my ears. Its a hobby that gets me frustrated at times too as we just want it to be as good as it can possibly be. Recording Metal is harder as there are so many harmonics going on with a high gain tone. I've gone clean to low gain this year. Must be a sign of middle age as It was always gain on 10 for me years ago. So if some clever yanks want to program algorithms or however they do it that makes things easier then embrace the new! Technology being what it is in 5 years, well who knows... Merry Christmas! :D
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But of course not, you need the koch, it has a much better feel and is more intuitive to use than a modeller.
Metal should be recorded at lower gain, and I pay stupid OCD amounts of attention to the voicing of the gain, note articulation and gain structure used (pre, power, any additional distortion or gain having devices and mic pre gain). Its very difficult indeed to get a good metal sound. Clean is much easier to get something at least passable much faster. More usable results are generally found with lower gain levels, in my experience.
In a few years no doubt there will be superb amp modellers. I dont think the technology is a problem though (and this is little pet hate of mine) because 'modellers' are just computers. They dont have a sound of their own any more than your PC does. Its the code they run that gives the sound. Hooking up a modeller to a pc is just basically running a VST on a seperate CPU. As PCs get faster, people will no doubt code more complex and realistic VSTs, and thats what I'd keep my eye on more than anything!
And merry christmas!
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mark I don't remember you getting a vypyr! how's it compare to the valvetronix and the HT5 now you've tried all 3?
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You wouldnt, I didnt anounce it to the world :lol:
more flexible than the HT5, less than the VTXL/VT (in tonal voicings available, the vypryr has more options but they sound much more similar to each other)
Its a bitch to dial in, actually. Clangy, grating high end and boomy dull low end are both easily attainable with a slight movement of the stupid light up dials. It CAN sound pretty good, but it doesnt sound as good as the VTXL at all.
The HT5 is a different animal altogether. I liked it considerably more in person than in the various clips kicking round, but it lacks much life, attack and depth to the sound. Not that I expect it to be an Engl or Deizel but it was pretty flat sounding. Not offensive though; I'd be perfectly happy to use one as a practice amp but it didnt do anything special imo. Doesnt have that much gain on tap and isnt very aggressively voiced. Its like a little, darker tighter smoother JCM900
I Like the VTXL the best, on the 'damaged' channel, no effects, EQ to taste/placement in room.
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My home studio setup, inc micing and shielding and stuff. I call it The Forge, cos it makes metal.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0037-2.jpg)
Listening and monitoring position and general music throne area.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0031.jpg)
Studio emergency equipment (on the wall you cant see behind the guitars)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0029.jpg)
Its rather embarrasing to me that many people do much better with much less, but hey we're all learning, right?
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Looks impressive Mark! So how's it all going in general?
I still have my cash for new Mac and Motu in the bank. I know once I get stuck into a load of new equipment I'll get new problems to over come! I hate them I just want to come up with ideas and make them work :lol:
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Pretty well. Still way too much to learn. Theres a track in players atm recorded with all that gubbins (which is really very little gubbins and rather ghetto in the grand scheme, but its what I got - see sig!) if you want to *hear* how its going :D
About to embark on recording some of the better local guitarists for the experience, and because I hope to be able to record demos for people, or just help them get some tracks down for their own satisfaction (which is all I really do) for some appropriate hourly rate and would like to have some stuff I recorded 'out there' and some people with good things to say when I do so
....but, despite being a better engineer than most of the guys that charge for it round here (and I am NOT a good audio engineer, they're just inept) I want to know that I can handle at least most of what I'll encounter and do a good job first, so its all learning and experimenting with techniques at the moment.
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Pretty well. Still way too much to learn. Theres a track in players atm recorded with all that gubbins (which is really very little gubbins and rather ghetto in the grand scheme, but its what I got - see sig!) if you want to *hear* how its going :D
About to embark on recording some of the better local guitarists for the experience, and because I hope to be able to record demos for people, or just help them get some tracks down for their own satisfaction (which is all I really do) for some appropriate hourly rate and would like to have some stuff I recorded 'out there' and some people with good things to say when I do so
....but, despite being a better engineer than most of the guys that charge for it round here (and I am NOT a good audio engineer, they're just inept) I want to know that I can handle at least most of what I'll encounter and do a good job first, so its all learning and experimenting with techniques at the moment.
I'll give that track ago in the morning. No work for me tomorrow so I'll run a line out the laptop into my stereo with a big pair of Tannoys attached to it and turn it up loud! I'll be bugging you for tips soon :lol:
I want to record some others too for the experience. I'll have to get my finger out and get the stuff I want and learn more. I want to get the bass player I rehearse with to do some stuff as he is brilliant.
Do you refer much to the Guerilla home studio book much?
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Cool, I'll be interested to hear what you think.
I read it/skimmed the bits I alread knew just in case. I dont really refer to it as such.
I got this for christmas and its beyond awesome
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handbook-Sound-Engineers-Glen-Ballou/dp/0240809696/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262912195&sr=8-1
(I also didnt realise how much it cost till I went looking for a link just then - good job I sat engrossed in it giggling like a child at how awesome it is for most of christmas day, and its worth much, much more than that - when I consider I dont bat an eyelid at 200 on some pickups and compare the benefit from that to what I've learned from this in just a couple of weeks, I would have bought it for myself at 5 times the price, if I knew it existed....oh, its 1500 pages long and isnt shy of equations, but I'm a physicist by trade so thats right up my street!)
I cant leave it alone, it rules. It has a much drier tone, but its ridiculously informative and helpful.
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Personally I find it odd that people take such an interest in recording - I've always just looked at it as a chore. As much as I love tinkering with things generally I don't like recording at all. Obviously it's a necessity for more serious musicians, my lack of interest is maybe just because I just have no reason to do it. Who knows?
My 'rig' while at uni is a pod x3l, laptop and creative pc speakers anyway, which lends itself pretty seamlessly to recording guitar and bass. Thoroughly decent tones, too, once they're recorded. It's very true that modellers don't have the 'feel' of a decent amp while you're playing...
PS - That new Legra is stunning, Mark.
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I had a look at that book when you said you got it for Christmas. I could just imagine you with your head buried in it soaking it all up and bursting with new ideas! :lol: Well that's how I get with these things anyway. I've just put it on my wish list. Talking of books I bought Creative Guitar by Guthrie Govan, brilliant book, if you don't have it already.
I listened to your track and posted there, but very impressive. Some of the best I've heard on these boards and I mean that.
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Yep! That and it helps you learn the gear, sound itself (though I have a good grasp of that given my professional and educational background), and a million and one other things. Helps you hear better as well and make more informed decisions at all stages of the recording process. Really worth its weight in gold, superb book.
I dont have that one, no. I'll look into it! I also got a book on mastering, but it hasnt arived yet.
And thanks again for the kind words on Memento Mori.
Doc, I partly know what you mean. It doesnt have the fun element and immediate gratification that just grabbing a guitar and doing whatever you do with it does. I find myself at the start of a recording feeling like I'm staring up everest, knowing how much work it is (to get a decent job done, and doubly so if you arent just going through the motions, repeating whats worked for you before - every time I embark on it I try to use new things I've learned and make a better job than the last). But the results are so satisfying, its well worth it. To me at least.
And thanks. Its a fantastic guitar!
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But the results are so satisfying, its well worth it. To me at least.
+1, but I don't quite go so in-depth as you. Its always a treat when I get a fairly well produced sound (good enough for a very good demo cd, but not as polished as a studio production).