Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: pop on December 14, 2009, 03:30:51 PM
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Hey guys,
please help me find the right BKPs for my new LPC
I mistakenly created the thread in the "Players" section, so here is the link: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19594.0
Thanks
pop
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I have Nailbombs in my Custom-helps tame the brightness....I also like Crawlers(sweeter top end-NBombs more modern to my ear) and many here will swear by Cold Sweats in a Paul-both the Nb's and Crawlers easily get me into the sonic territory you speak of ..nb's would be tighter for those dropped tuned moments-both have awesome cleans when needed
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I keep hearing good things about Cold Sweats in LPs, they might be a bit tighter for lower tunings (as the CS bridge is ceramic) than the Nailbomb. I would say Holy Diver, but you say you don't want too much when it comes to mids, but they are thick, warm, and clean up quite beautifully. I've heard the Nailbomb is similar, except a bit brighter and sweeter (nothing near shrill though). I have pretty much no experience with neck pickups though, I'm all bridge for now 8)
...And then I listened to your clips (they're great). If tightness is an absolute must, CS. Otherwise, consider the Nailbomb.
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Thank you for your suggestions guys.
Just wanted to let you know what Tim suggested:
Cold Sweat in the Bridge for the heavy rythm stuff and
Mule in the Neck for lovely clean sounds and maximum versatility.
Of course I will follow board rule number 1 and order what he recommended...
Looking very much forward to the result!...
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Very good choice.
The Cold Sweat bridge is amazing. It's tight in standard tuning but at the same time it has more bass response compared to the Rebel Yells (which are also brighter voiced pickups). This means they'd be perfect for lower tunings as well (having the right amount of bass response in a LPC).
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cold sweat is quite sizzly
nailbomb is quite similar with cleaner mids, slightly smoother top, but still a bit sizzly, at least in my '73 custom
I miss some extra midrange
the holy diver is not tighter, but definitely middier, thicker, clearer and cleans up better than both
and it matches the cold sweat neck even better than the cold sweat bridge
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I didn't want another nailbomb as I already have a pair in my ESP Eclipse and I wanted something else for a change.
First I wanted to go with a HD Bridge. To quote Tim about the HD in this guitar: "...too fat and rounded in the highs in a LP for the tones you want and bass too warm."
For the bridge pickup it was actually a close race between the MM and the CS. These were the 2 Tim suggested but finally he said I'd be best of with the CS bridge.
I can't wait to try them out...
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unless you're playing a recto or something, the holy diver sounds fairly tight, just like every BKP I've tried
I used to play a MIJ lawsuit les paul through a peavey rockmaster preamp, a Soldano-based leadvox preamp, a single rectifier and a framus cobra
it only mushed with the recto
the highs are round in a good way, but not muffled or dark sounding
the cold sweat worked just as awesome in that same guitar too, but the sweat is like a brighter, slightly thinner and more sizzly nailbomb
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I love the NB in my Eclipse but i often thought that it could be a bit brighter. And as the LPC it also does have maple top on mahogany with ebony fretboard - therefore it is compareable, even if it's lighter and thinner.
So it seems the CS will meet my taste. Anywhey I'll let you guys know
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unless you're playing a recto or something, the holy diver sounds fairly tight, just like every BKP I've tried. The highs are round in a good way, but not muffled or dark sounding. The cold sweat worked just as awesome in that same guitar too, but the sweat is like a brighter, slightly thinner and more sizzly nailbomb
The Holydiver bridge is awesome too, but it IS darker voiced. Sometimes it's just better to choose for a balanced pickup (not too bright, not too dark) if the guitar sounds fairly bright naturally...you know what I mean? It's like some guitars are meant to sound bright and cutting and for these (if they're Les Paul Customs) I'd go for the CS set personally. Very balanced set and I like the range of tones you get from the neck pickup to the bridge pickup and vice versa. It's just awesome. The HD bridge is definately less 'cutting'/'sharp' and therefore it will sound closer to the CS neck pickup...if that's what you like.
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Thanks LP_LOVER.
I'm just curious how heavy your '08 LPC is?
And how does the CS Bridge compare to the 498T in your '08 LPC mid wise?
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Good question about the CS bridge. The CS has more character compared to the 498T. It's like a full grown 498T, if you know what I mean. The mids are a tad more present and the overall tone is much 'cleaner' (BKP character). The mids definately 'bite' in my LPC, but they aren't overwhelming (which is great). When it 'bites' it's enough for me to know that the mids are there.
My '89 Custom sounds 'dirty' and 'gainy' compared to my 08' Custom, which sounds much cleaner but still 'fluid' and it rocks.
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The weight differences on the new LPCs are weird. My '09 model weights 10.6. I played another new LPC in the store which was also a lot lighter.
My only concern about the CS was, that they might be lacking of mids a bit compared to the 498T. It's a real relief for me to read that this is not the case in your LPC!
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cold sweat is quite sizzly
nailbomb is quite similar with cleaner mids, slightly smoother top, but still a bit sizzly, at least in my '73 custom
I miss some extra midrange
the holy diver is not tighter, but definitely middier, thicker, clearer and cleans up better than both
and it matches the cold sweat neck even better than the cold sweat bridge
With that in mind, can you compare the HD bridge to a Crawler bridge?
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The weight differences on the new LPCs are weird. My '09 model weights 10.6. I played another new LPC in the store which was also a lot lighter.
My only concern about the CS was, that they might be lacking of mids a bit compared to the 498T. It's a real relief for me to read that this is not the case in your LPC!
You're right about the weight differences on the new LPC's. It's strange indeed. However, I bought the guitar because of the tone/playability. Unplugged it had more 'ring' compared to the other LPC's I tested that day and plugged-in it ringed as well.
The 498T is mushy, thin, harsh and characterless compared to the CS.
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First let me say, I really enjoy chatting about LPs and BKPs :-) Could do it all day long... hard enough to find people who share the same interest.
Sounds like your '08 LPC has similar character than mine - clear and punchy
When playing it I don't understand why the new Les Pauls do have a bad reputation.
Mine plays and sounds like a charm... even though you have to play a few to find the right one.
Did you have a chance to try different pickups in yours?
I would like to know how a C-Bomb and MM would work in it. I never considered a MM for a LPC but Tims recommendation made me curious (even if he thought the CS would be better for me)
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:)
Well, that 'bad reputation' mostly has to do with the non-custom shop models. All the noise started with the introduction of the chambered Les Pauls...since then a lot of the Les Pauls seemed to fall out of flavor by the die-hard Les Paul players that considered the chambered bodies as 'cheap toys'...and yes, they DO give a very different tone and vibe. Many of the new Les Pauls are poorly finished and I can agree with that. I'm glad that the LPC's are made in the Custom Shop and therefore have higher quality, selected woods + much better craftmanship. But even then you have to play a few to get the 'best' one in tone/playability. I've played a new 58' VOS reissue that felt like a toy and played like ****.
I can imagine that the C-Bomb and MM will be more towards 'metal', instead of straight hardrock.
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selected woods
I can't think of a better piece of honduras mahogany than the $600 SG Faded I had :D
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unless you're playing a recto or something, the holy diver sounds fairly tight, just like every BKP I've tried. The highs are round in a good way, but not muffled or dark sounding. The cold sweat worked just as awesome in that same guitar too, but the sweat is like a brighter, slightly thinner and more sizzly nailbomb
The Holydiver bridge is awesome too, but it IS darker voiced. Sometimes it's just better to choose for a balanced pickup (not too bright, not too dark) if the guitar sounds fairly bright naturally...you know what I mean? It's like some guitars are meant to sound bright and cutting and for these (if they're Les Paul Customs) I'd go for the CS set personally. Very balanced set and I like the range of tones you get from the neck pickup to the bridge pickup and vice versa. It's just awesome. The HD bridge is definately less 'cutting'/'sharp' and therefore it will sound closer to the CS neck pickup...if that's what you like.
I agree with everything
but in my guitar both sounded equally awesome
the cold sweat was better for thrash metal stuff, especially Pantera (I had a cover band), and the diver was better for almost everything else, except maybe for raw 80's hard rock and classic metal
but you can't ignore the amps also
my '73 lp custom with the nailbomb sounds pretty good through my modded '77 JMP, and I bet the diver would sound even better
the other lp with the cold sweat didn't sound as good cause it's way too bright for this amp
so you gotta keep in mind that the whole equipment counts a lot
Tim usually doesn't recommend nailbombs for old les pauls cause he says they get too dark, but mine sounds exactly the opposite
very thick and punchy, but bright and not middy enough for my tastes
I'll probably buy another Diver or a similar pup (I'm thinking of a MC Afwayu) for this one and a Diver/Sweat set for the '81 Standard I'm waiting
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I agree that you can't ignore the amp/equipment (and most important of all; the player), but a great guitar can sound great through almost any tube amp. Many times the player itself is the one that complains the most! 'I think it's too bright' or 'it's still a bit too dark for my taste, 'I need a different amp', 'Oh, I need to fix this first' :)
The CS bridge has a real vintage character in my 08' LPC. It really has tons of bite in the higher mids (while still being 'thick') and it has a vocal scream. It's never harsh or thin and on the clean channel it's totally clean. It feels like a vintage/hot pickup (VH2) with added sizzle/push/thickness.
pop: I think the MM and C-bomb will turn your LPC in a metal axe (which often means darker, more bass heavy, smoother and less aggressive).
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CS is a great pup but to follow above posts, in my set up it was too bright:
- Les Pauls Custom R68
- Soldano SLO
The Crawler is tamed the high end and add the mids to cut throught the mix. I'm jonesing to try a Holy Diver or Painkiller in it or my '79 maple neck Les Paul Custom. I just have to wait; this exchange rate isn't my best friend.
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That's a lot of stuff to consider. I guess I will not find out before I tried the CS in my axe...
As far as the Crawler is concerned I have the fear that it might not be tight enough for my liking. Especially for lower fast palm muted stuff. Tim also confirmed that.
One more thing. If anyone has more information on how the C-Bomb compares to the CS I would be very thankful. I'm especially interested on how they compare in terms of mids.
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Jim: I usually turn back the treble on any amp and play with the bass/mids settings untill the guitar sounds most balanced eq-wise. I always like a bit of 'edge' here.
I'm a true believer that one, same guitar can sound balanced on any amp. If it is still too 'harsh' then it's mostly a problem of the guitar itself (pots, caps, wood characteristics) or you're playing through a bad amp that isn't sensitive to eq changes.
The unplugged tone tells you how the guitar is supposed to sound plugged-in (which means sometimes you need some help from different pots, caps, pickups to achieve that tone in its full glory). When I choose a pickup I only listen to what the guitar wants/needs (not what I want). I already have what I want, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the guitar; simple.
However, it's nice to hear that the Crawler tamed the high end for your R68. I've never found any problems cutting through a mix and certainly not with the CS.
The Crawler bridge is alnico V and therefore it will be less tight and less sharp compared to the CS with its ceramic magnet. An important thing to mention is that the CS sounds 'thick' at the same time. Seriously, with a Les Paul you shouldn't need to worry too much about 'mids'. Les Pauls have tons of mids already, that's why the CS set usually is a great match in many Les Pauls (because they're very well balanced pickups). This means that the CS brings out the naturel mids of your Les Paul. If you think the guitar needs (way) more mids to cut through, then it might be worth to take a look at the Painkiller (in your case) instead of the Crawler.
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You are absolutely right.
But as far as I can tell from the clips I heard, the PK would be a mid overkill in my LPC - eventhough I like its sound a lot. I just would want it to have slightly less mids.
But I guess I'm worrying too much anyway. It's just so hard to wait until the PUs arrive and not know how the guitar will sound like with the new BKPs...
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Crawler bridge definitely is less percussive or tight in the low end than the CS or RY bridge pup. That is one thing I miss with the Crawler. But it's so thick and full and rich.....like milkshake.
The CS cut through the mix but with more high end than I am comfortable with for my tastes. No doubt that Les Pauls are full sounding guitars but the CS sounded to cut or void in the mids for what I like to hear in the mix ....with the particular guitar that was using.
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pop:
If the unplugged tone from your LPC is great/very good (not dull or dead), then most likely you'll get a big smile on your face once you hear these pickups or there's something truly wrong with you :). Of the four different Les Pauls I equipped with BKP's, three times I had a big smile on my face after the pickup changes. The only time it couldn't bother me that much was with my '89 LPC (which is the one with the worst unplugged tone as well). My 06' Studio (with BKP Black Dogs) sounds great; my 07' Standard Faded (with BKP Mississippi Queens) sounds great; My 08' Custom (with BKP Cold Sweats) sounds great. All for different purposes, but always with that recognizable BKP character. I love the pick sensitivity from these BKP's; so much better compared to the stock Gibson pickups. This is also the main reason why your guitar sounds more 'alive' with these pickups. Play it gently or really dig it, it's up to you. Whether you play clean or distorted, it's all up to the player what to do with the tone (which is why BKP's are so great).
You might need to get used a bit to the clarity/upper mid brightness from these pickups, but that's totally normal (as with any BKP). I find the CS set to have the perfect dark-bright balance in my LPC's. They'll outclass your stock Gibson pickups, that's one thing I know for sure .
IntenseJim:
yes, depends totally on the guitar/set-up/individual purposes. Like I said before I always like a bit of edge in my tone and the CS gives that without being over the top; it's definately thick and clear sounding and sometimes I'd even call it 'sweet', depending on the way I treat it. It can bite and scream like there's no tomorrow, but in a vocal way; never thin, scratchy or harsh.
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After reading your post I just had to pick up my guitar and play it unplugged.
It sounds the very opposite of dead - it is very very lively and ballsy sound. And it's definitely on the bright side.
And you were are right, there are plenty of mids there.
My ESP Eclipse sounds very dull next to it.
I just wanted to bring up another issue which is not directly pickup related: sting gauges
In the store I was told that the stock strings are 009-042 but I don't think that'S correct.
I guess they are 010-046.
Now that I'm playing tuned down by half a step (sometimes even to dropped C#) the strings are too flabby.
I can't decide if should order 010-052 or 011-048 Ernie Balls. I have no experience with LPs.
Any recommendations?
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It it were me and tuning down, then 12s.
I have 10s and 11s on my LPs and never downtune. I prefer 11s for the feel by a long shot.
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pop:
'Lively', 'ballsy' and on the bright side unplugged? Sounds like a good LPC! :)
I play in standard tuning, with 10-46 gauge strings. 10's sound most balanced and clear to me on a LPC, in standard tuning.
However, for down-tuning on your LPC you might consider 11's or even 12's, depending on the set-up and playability of the guitar.
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In the store I was told that the stock strings are 009-042 but I don't think that'S correct.
I guess they are 010-046.
Now that I'm playing tuned down by half a step (sometimes even to dropped C#) the strings are too flabby.
I can't decide if should order 010-052 or 011-048 Ernie Balls. I have no experience with LPs.
Any recommendations?
From my experience, LP-like guitars are better with at least 10-46 -and FWIW, I don't think any guitar sounds at it's best with 09-42 strings.
Now if you're down-tuning, you can certainly go for at least 11-52 (for the record, SRV played 13-58, half-step down-tuned) - but then you'll more than probably have to adjust the neck (or have the neck adjusted by a qualified tech).
My 2 cents.
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Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.
I tried a set of 010-046 and 011-048
Surprisingly I didn't like the feel of the 011-048 at all on my LPC even though I play heavier strings on my other guitars.
So I put back on a set of 010-046 and the sweetnes was back again. Especially on the higher strings it sounds and plays better with 010. Even if the lowest 2 stings are still a bit too loose. But I'll see how it turns out with the new CS as they have tighter lows than the stock PUs anyway.
I will also try a ernie ball heavy bottom set this week 010-052 and maybe the 10.5-048 set from GHS.
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Glad you like the playability and sweet tone of 10's on your LPC as well. I also dig thicker strings on some other guitars, but 10's always feel AND sound the best to me, on a LP (especially on a LPC that already plays as smooth as butter with the ebony board and great neck profile).
I wouldn't worry too much about the lowest 2 strings...you can always take it to an experienced tech if needed for a slight pro adjustment. No guitar is totally perfect, not even my new LPC (although it seems to rape my other Les Pauls in every sense:).
And yes, the CS will definately give tighter lows (but not in a thin way).
Good luck!
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After days of intense playing and tweaking I finally want to give you guys a short review about the Cold Sweat / Mule combo in my LPC.
The stock pickups gave me this classic rock vibe. They made me play AC/DC kind of stuff (which is normally not what I'm playing).
Obvious things first: The CS bridge is completly different voiced - by changing pickups I got a whole new guitar!
In the beginning I was quite shocked as I didn't expect such a big change in sound and feel.
The CS bridge gives me a very rich, saturated and huge rythm sound - exactly the attributes I asked Tim for. It has mighty and meaty lows but it still stays very tight - which is great for downtuned riffing.
The midrange is very balanced and has a very (!!!) unique voicing. For me the tone of the midrange is what makes the CS so unique - it's hard to describe but the mids sound very "round" - very different from anything else I played so far. Where the mids of the stock PUs were quite harsh, the CS provides the smoothest and most saturated midrange I every heard. The more I play it, the more I love it - it instantly puts a smile on my face each time I plug it in.
But this quality is also what makes it not everyone's cup of tea - it's not a swiss army knife for all purposes. It provides a very special sound with loads of character.
I don't like the sound for classic rock stuff - but that's not what I'm using it for anyway.
As all BKPs the CS cleans up superbly - it's really fun playing around with the volume knob.
The CS also delivers fantastic crunch sounds - which was is also one of my requirements.
The CS bridhe is very bright in my LPC - but not overly bright. However it could have a little less highs but it's not a problem at all.
The clean sounds are very ok but didn't knock my socks of.
But that's what I have my Mule neck for.
I asked Tim for a neck pickup which provides "crystal clear, warm and bell-like cleans". And this is EXACTLY what I got. You can really hear the character of the guitar shining through when playing clean. It is clear and articulate to the most possible extend and it has lots of character.
I also get great lead tones with it.
The only thing that bugged me a bit is that the stock PU was a little smoother/sweeter to play.
Except of the sweetnes The Mule smokes the stock PU in all categories by far.
First I was scared that there might be a volume difference between the CS bridge and TM neck - but they match surprisingly well. Not a problem with volumes when switching from bridge to neck at all.
And I must mention that I get the nicest clean sound in the middle position CS/TM - this was a big surprise even if this is exactly what Tim told me when he recommended this combination.
So once again a big thanks to Tim!!! - he hit the bull's-eye again!
With the new pickups I love my LPC even more!
I'm already looking forward to equipping my remaining guitars with BKPs!!! :)
As far as strings are concerned (relating to the previous discussion in this thread), the Cold Sweat was asking for some thicker gauge strings. So after trying 4 different gauges I ended up with "skinny top, heavy bottom" ernie balls 010-052. That way it can play evil sounding drop tuned riffs and still have the thin upper strings for sweet lead playing.
Please excuse my English, as you may have already guessed it's not my native language.
pop