Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Shag101 on November 16, 2005, 07:27:49 PM
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Hi All,
I have what might be a dumb question..lol
i finally ordered my 1st pair of BKP's. The bridge is a warpig. I get my guitar setup for standard E. If i go an drop it to drop c for that chugga chugga sound or double power chord sound would that be jeopardizing my neck being that the tension is no longer there?? Since i got a neck through i am very careful how i treat the guitar since a new neck would be out of the question.... thanks
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I have a guitar in drop-C. No problems with the neck and there's still enough tension on the strings (10's btw). It would be better to go with 11's for that tuning. However, there's something about flabby strings that makes it sound very evil and I haven't had any problems with the 10's.
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Thanks ratrod,
i didnt know if it was an issue because i know my tech asks me every time what tuning i use so he could adjust the trust rod and other stuff to accommodate that tuning
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In theory, the truss rod has to be adjusted and the intonation too. In my experiences the differences are somewhat minimal. A heavier string gauge usually compensates for the reduced string pull. If you have a dual action truss rod there shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.
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Thanks again,
I dont have a dual action truss rod, but i do use 10's on my sg so I guess i will be fine. most of the time i will be in standard e, but like you said...this warpig is going to make me want to tune down. as long as i am not going to mess up the neck i will be happy. intonation off and loose strings i can deal with no problem....lol
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I was gonna say if you are gonna use drop C for recording or live gigs i'd get a guitar set up for that tuning, there will be less tension from the strings which will cause the neck to bow back a little bit, this might not be to much of a problem, but if you action is razor low it could cause the lower frets to choke or not sound atall, and a higher action at the higher frets, will put you intonation out a bit to.
All this may sound overly dramtic, if your gonna use the tuning for bumming around on your own or with mates then thats cool, if your gonna use it for anything more then get it set up for it.
Or atleast thats what i'd do.
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I'd advise heavier strings (11's, like Ratrod says, are a good place to start) and then adjust your action to suit. I'm only down a half on my main guitar and another is tuned the same, but the 6th is dropped to C#/Db using EB Hybrid's (9-46) set. Works for me (and with minimal tweaking, usually intonation only).
If you're chopping and changing your tunings, it would be wise to set one guitar for one tuning, rather than use one for loads of different tuning's. If you do that regularly without checking your neck, then it could well lead to problems. If you have, say 2 tunings, then I'd recommend having 2 guitars (not always possible I know!), if that's not possible, then don't change the tuning too often, and always check your neck when you do change tuning. Just be careful.
Don't forget though, that in their heyday, Tony Iommi used C# tuning using 8's!
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wow, i use 10s and C is far to flabby for me.. have a 24 fret 25.5" scale lenght.. was the same on my LP aswell...
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A lot of that early Iommi sound comes from strings flapping - as Ratrod sai, it sounds evil!! :twisted:
I remember reading an interview in guigtarist with Metallica back in '91/'92 and he said when he first experimented with low tunings they used 9s down at C# until they realised it was a really bad way to stay in time....strings flapping around and you can't hit 'em!!
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Thanks Guys,
I tuned down to drop c yesterday and was lost....haha.. it took me a while to figure stuff out....
I always play in standard e...ahahah
But once i got the hang of it, i was loving it.... :twisted:
If i do get my guitar setup for drop c, it will take me forever to figure out the finger patterns. haha
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go totally down to C, CFG something something (err at work, cant see tuning notes :P)
just play normal E fingerings for everything, but it sounds heavier.. thats what IOMMI was doin :)
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true,
I could have the guitar setup for D and use my regular fingering i use for E. And if I want I could drop the 6th string to c and be in drop c.
I dont think i would be putting my neck in any harm that way. What do you guys think??
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In a word. No. ;)
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thanks again,
last dumb question. if i get my guitar setup for D tuning and i go and jam with some friends and lets say the other guitarist is in standard E, would this make a difference? or would my lets say A chord sound okay to his A chord??
Forget this question. I think I will be fine...if he plays 5th fret A on 6th string, my 7th fret A on 6th should match well. I think they only way an A would be different if its an octave higher or lower or difference gauge strings.
If I am wrong please let me know. thanks
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So long as you remember you're down a step, and you don't play any open chords (unless you think they'll fit) you should be OK.
You could always buy a capo for your electric.
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How about this: Get some really heavy gauge strings and tune to baritone lows. Your E string bocomes a B and your A string becomes an E. That's a little easier to combine with a standard E tuned guitar.
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you know what guys. im just gonna keep standard tuning.
its never let me down....hahaha
i know im going to get bored of the alternate tuning some day....
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!
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At the mo i am using GHS Boomers, 11's and tuned down to low A#. The tuning went A#, F#, C#, F#, A#, D#. I think thats right. It worked too. Very flappy strings, twas so dark!
Hope it helps
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Hello mates...
- I do this stuff constantly...
work on setups of standard tuned guitars for students, and working musicians-the tuning most guitars were made for-
-and then the slacktuned guitars for those from from dark side.
-There is a difference.
every different gauge and type of string has an optimum tonal range based on plain/wrapped, matierial,core diameter,length, and tension.
-Think of harps & pianos:small short strings for high tones, and thick long ones for bass.
-The guitar-symphony of compromises that it is, puts 6 strings side-by-side at almost the same length-picture the bridge on a classical guitar for an extreme example. Electrics have more room to intonate, but still basically within the same compromise. It's amazing they sound as good as they can...guitars tuning is like bees flying-science says it's wrong.
The lower you tune the whole set of strings, the less tension, more flab,less edge-D'Addario publishes tension/gauge info on their packages...
I use 13's-stock rating of a collective tension of 178lbs/81 kg at standard tuning-These same strings tuned down to" A" below standard 'E' must be a reduction of 30-40 lbs, or 14-18 kg of collective tension ( I'm guessing here-probably more..."Anybody?")-Bass strings tuned down a fifth from their original designed tension become toneless percussion-almost voiceless.Why bother?
-It sounds so cool-
Heavier guitar strings are great to a point- Once the strings get over
.060", they lose the icy attack and edge that guitar sound is all about...
-I've tried Baritone strings where the low 'B' string was .070"-starts becoming a bass at this point. Dead,round,tight as pizza cheese...
My trick is to use two 'E' (guitar) strings ( different guages, but both originally intended to be 'E' strings), and then on up the set to a standard 2nd/'B' string- no treble E at all.-Put them in a box for when you grow up and 'buy the Volvo',buy clothing and cd's from the supermarket, and start tuning standard again.
My sets for playing in 'A' are as follows:
1) : .017-treble 'A'
2) : .026- e
3) : .036- c
4) : .046- g
5) : .052- d
6) : .056-bass 'A'
-I buy my own strings individually, or plunder factory sets.
The tension is there, believe me!-
But it's still a compromise-
I think it's also important to know when to stop worrying about the physical impossibilities of guitar as we know them, fussing over unachievable perfection, and play the damned things.
Slacktuned Axes should be setup if you're going to stay there for long- the effect of slacktuned strings is that they fret sharper to the harmonic-bending is more exagerated, etc.- and they generally require more compensation ( length, bridge saddle away from the nut) to intonate. Tremolos need to be sprung, or blocked to match the tension, or ye'll never be happy. Baritones, long scales, thicker strings, hardtails, good setups, and a plan- It's ideal to have different axes for different "roles", and tunings-like golf clubs, tools, and cars.
like violins/viola/cello/bass do...play in different ranges that compliment each other- the right tools for the job.
hardtailed long scaled axes are ideal for abyssal low tunings,
and if you must have a wiggle stick, make sure the tension is there.
Don't tune lower than you can intonate-
-I sometimes have to move bridges ( mostly Floyds ) south to get them "in the zone" of their intonation adjustment spread.-then the guitar is no longer ready to just "tune back up" to standard E- it becomes a short scale Baritone.-surgery, and permanent devaluing change.Beware!
I wonder why musicians don't use both tunings in their music, or have a standard tuned guitar contrasting with a Baritone tuned a 4th-5th down in the same piece of music...Too much finger watching, and not enough music going on!-
Congrats on making it through my ranting post-you rock...
-Drac the windbag
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Being a folkie and playing the acoustic more than the electric - I tune to DADGAD and Sawmill tuning alot (I use 14s as strings on the acoustic) - I have to say my Washburn acoustic has suffered no ill effects from continual tuning and retuning.
Although I do put everything back to EADGBE after a session, just so that I can have a quick strum without getting serious.