Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: IAMBR00TALZ on January 01, 2010, 01:00:35 AM
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Just put my nailbomb in my jackson rr24, and i have to say, i'm not digging the tone at all. I play a Mark III. There is this subtle muddyness in the low mids that i can't dial out. its just muddy no matter how i dial in my amp, and its pissing me off. my guitar is alder, so i don't think that is the problem. it is fine with low gain, but when i add enough gain suitable for my style, it gets muddy. any help? did i install it wrong? or is it just that i don't like the pickup voicing. i had an emg 81 before, and it didn't have this problem. this sucks, because i love the organic tone of the bkp, but i hate the mud.
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That's strange.....
I have nailbombs in a swamp ash body and the tone is big and fat no matter where its at.....N-bomb's got more bottom end than Kim Kardashian.....you can see where this is going.
My only suggestion is to check how far the pickups are from the strings...try moving them closer would be my best bet.
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That's strange.....
I have nailbombs in a swamp ash body and the tone is big and fat no matter where its at.....N-bomb's got more bottom end than Kim Kardashian.....you can see where this is going.
My only suggestion is to check how far the pickups are from the strings...try moving them closer would be my best bet.
i tried that, it only seemed to add output. and i couldn't raise in much, it started hitting the strings. did i install them wrong? as of now, i'm angry, and considering switching back to emg's. it has this muddyness in every thing i play it through. from my tube amp to my vst amp sim to my little micro cube.
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That's strange.....
I have nailbombs in a swamp ash body and the tone is big and fat no matter where its at.....N-bomb's got more bottom end than Kim Kardashian.....you can see where this is going.
My only suggestion is to check how far the pickups are from the strings...try moving them closer would be my best bet.
i tried that, it only seemed to add output. and i couldn't raise in much, it started hitting the strings. did i install them wrong? as of now, i'm angry, and considering switching back to emg's. it has this muddyness in every thing i play it through. from my tube amp to my vst amp sim to my little micro cube.
BKP quality is something that is held in highest regard so believe I can understand the frustration of expecting some amazing tone and then something going wrong. The tone IS there, we just gotta figure what's holding it up. From here there some things I would go over-
1-Are they wired properly? Go over this carefully, while I don't have technical knowledge, this seems to be the number one error in getting the tone right....some people here have had problems accidentally wiring their humbuckers and tapping only a single coil instead of both
2-What are the pot values? Again I don't have much techincal vale but the wrong pots can be mega tone-suckers...
I think for humbuckers it should be 500k
3-Did your guitar come equipped with active pickups? Cause if the electronics are set up for active pickups (again the whole pots and wiring thing) and you install passive pickups there are somethings that might need a quick changing, that's most likely the issue.
The boys on this board are very knowledgeable and the answer is probably just a stone's throw away, just give it a day or two (as it is new year's) and someone with more guitar suave will probably be able to walk you through it.
cheers!
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That's strange.....
I have nailbombs in a swamp ash body and the tone is big and fat no matter where its at.....N-bomb's got more bottom end than Kim Kardashian.....you can see where this is going.
My only suggestion is to check how far the pickups are from the strings...try moving them closer would be my best bet.
i tried that, it only seemed to add output. and i couldn't raise in much, it started hitting the strings. did i install them wrong? as of now, i'm angry, and considering switching back to emg's. it has this muddyness in every thing i play it through. from my tube amp to my vst amp sim to my little micro cube.
BKP quality is something that is held in highest regard so believe I can understand the frustration of expecting some amazing tone and then something going wrong. The tone IS there, we just gotta figure what's holding it up. From here there some things I would go over-
1-Are they wired properly? Go over this carefully, while I don't have technical knowledge, this seems to be the number one error in getting the tone right....some people here have had problems accidentally wiring their humbuckers and tapping only a single coil instead of both
2-What are the pot values? Again I don't have much techincal vale but the wrong pots can be mega tone-suckers...
I think for humbuckers it should be 500k
3-Did your guitar come equipped with active pickups? Cause if the electronics are set up for active pickups (again the whole pots and wiring thing) and you install passive pickups there are somethings that might need a quick changing, that's most likely the issue.
The boys on this board are very knowledgeable and the answer is probably just a stone's throw away, just give it a day or two (as it is new year's) and someone with more guitar suave will probably be able to walk you through it.
cheers!
1. As far as i see, it's correct. i will double check and get back to you.
2. it is 500k, just a normal pot, not a push pull
3. Yes it did, but i replaced everything pot, and input jack.
Thanks for the help.
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Just put my nailbomb in my jackson rr24, and i have to say, i'm not digging the tone at all. I play a Mark III. There is this subtle muddyness in the low mids that i can't dial out. its just muddy no matter how i dial in my amp, and its pissing me off. my guitar is alder, so i don't think that is the problem. it is fine with low gain, but when i add enough gain suitable for my style, it gets muddy. any help? did i install it wrong? or is it just that i don't like the pickup voicing. i had an emg 81 before, and it didn't have this problem. this sucks, because i love the organic tone of the bkp, but i hate the mud.
Maybe Nailbomb is not right for you. I tried Nailbomb in my KV-2 (pretty similar as RR24) and it wasn't what I was looking for. It was impossible to get good high gain sound out of it, so I sold it and now I'm very happy with Painkiller. I have Holy Diver -set in SL-2H (alder, maple, ebony) and that works very well too.
If you liked EMG81, so Painkiller would be good choice...
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Just put my nailbomb in my jackson rr24, and i have to say, i'm not digging the tone at all. I play a Mark III. There is this subtle muddyness in the low mids that i can't dial out. its just muddy no matter how i dial in my amp, and its pissing me off. my guitar is alder, so i don't think that is the problem. it is fine with low gain, but when i add enough gain suitable for my style, it gets muddy. any help? did i install it wrong? or is it just that i don't like the pickup voicing. i had an emg 81 before, and it didn't have this problem. this sucks, because i love the organic tone of the bkp, but i hate the mud.
Maybe Nailbomb is not right for you. I tried Nailbomb in my KV-2 (pretty similar as RR24) and it wasn't what I was looking for. It was impossible to get good high gain sound out of it, so I sold it and now I'm very happy with Painkiller. I have Holy Diver -set in SL-2H (alder, maple, ebony) and that works very well too.
If you liked EMG81, so Painkiller would be good choice...
$%&# i really don't wanna change it again. What didn't you like about it? and wouldn't the PK be too bright in alder? i arleeady have a bright amp, so....
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I have a calibrated Nailbomb set in my Charvel ST - I think that's alder.
Can't say that they're muddy, but they're definitely middy - lots of midrange tones there, very thick. I can definitely get a decent high gain tone from them, but It depends what you're after.
As has been said before, BKPs are very sensitive to height adjustment - I've found that there's a very specific sweet spot with my NBs and Mules (less so with my BGF50s).
Can't imagine that there could be a wiring problem producing a muddy tone, unless it was REALLY muddy, i.e. like a tone put wound all the way back.
My guess would be either the pickup height or expectation of what the pickups are that is causing the problem.
Mark.
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I find the Nailbomb to be such a dark sounding pickup that it often sounds muddy in many guitars .
It works well with a very bright guitar and a very bright amp (seems to work well with a Mesa Dual Rec)
But I find it is much more limited or narrow focussed in what it does (but it does that job well)
It is the reason why I am shocked and amazed when so many here on the forum rush to recommend it for every application
There have been a few guitars I have fitted it to where it has excelled in but it is a combination of the guitars natural sonic tones and those enhanced by the pickup that has made it work so well in those limited number of times.
Also we all hear things differently and like different sounds (even if we like the same bands) so my opinion may vary wildly from others here on the forum
Obviously in an ash body which is super bright it will be fine but maple through necks are a different beast and I would have recommended a Miracle Man , Painkiller, Holy Diver or even a Crawler
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+1 on the Painkiller suggestion.
I'm also confused by the NB getting recommended so much - its quite a specific tone imo and not a one-size-fits-all type pickup like the Mule (which does pretty much anything except extreme metal).
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In it's defence the Nailbomb is a very versatile pickup and does get used in a huge variety of different guitars and by a lot of different genres of player and is actually our top selling pickup. It does have a very broad mid range so isn't usually my first choice for a tight tone in alder which as a timber is relatively soft and often produces quite a hard mid range however players like Muse's Matt Bellamy use it to great effect in alder guitars and create a huge palette of tones. By comparison a lot of players like the Nailbomb in mahogany/maple LP style guitars -Marshall's Chris George for example who uses his LP Custom loaded with NBs for demoing nearly all the Marshall range, again because of it's versatility and range of classic rock tones.
I too would suggest a Painkiller as being more suitable in the alder RR for a tight and aggressive metal tone and did actually recommend it originally.
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Tim Wins! :D
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I'm quite surprised that the Nailbomb is the top selling BKP - I'd have put money on the Mule then the Warpig.
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I can definitely get a decent high gain tone from them, but It depends what you're after.
It's top-seller pickup, so obviously many people has found good tone from them, which is good thing! :D
Nailbomb (A5) is for sure good "harder rock and metal all-rounder", because it has balanced eq-curve, great definition and enought output for most of stuff.
My problem with NB was that I didn't get tight enought sound out of it even with tubescreamer or eq-pedal (used as mid- and level-booster) and it was lacking compression to my taste too. Muddiness wasn't problem.
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I can definitely get a decent high gain tone from them, but It depends what you're after.
It's top-seller pickup, so obviously many people has found good tone from them, which is good thing! :D
Nailbomb (A5) is for sure good "harder rock and metal all-rounder", because it has balanced eq-curve, great definition and enought output for most of stuff.
My problem with NB was that I didn't get tight enought sound out of it even with tubescreamer or eq-pedal (used as mid- and level-booster) and it was lacking compression to my taste too. Muddiness wasn't problem.
Whats your amp? did you tried the ceramic nailbomb?
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I can definitely get a decent high gain tone from them, but It depends what you're after.
It's top-seller pickup, so obviously many people has found good tone from them, which is good thing! :D
Nailbomb (A5) is for sure good "harder rock and metal all-rounder", because it has balanced eq-curve, great definition and enought output for most of stuff.
My problem with NB was that I didn't get tight enought sound out of it even with tubescreamer or eq-pedal (used as mid- and level-booster) and it was lacking compression to my taste too. Muddiness wasn't problem.
Whats your amp? did you tried the ceramic nailbomb?
My amps are modified Marshalls JCM800 and plexi heads. NB, I tried in KV-2, was A5-version. I had C-bomb in mahogany bodied Dinky and it was amazing. I sold that guitar and I have missed that pickup. To my ears it is real metal pick up: tight, evil, pretty much compression - quite lot difference to A5-bomb... maybe something like darker and hotter CS, something like Painkiller too, like somebody has described it. I chooce Painkiller to that KV-2, because I like PKs insane midrange punch so much.
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Another post for defending the Nailbomb. Not a post against Kartar though; if it's not the right pickup for that guitar, then it isn't.
I've had first hand experience with the NB in two strats; one has an all-maple neck, and an alder body, the second has a maple-topped alder body and a rosewood/maple neck. The latter one is my own.
My guitar has less midrange (maple top has that effect on alder) and is brighter. The NB is not dark at all in that guitar. The guitar has a tight tone, so the full bottom of the NB stays very tight too, and the top end is articulate and biting. The other strat has more midrange and the tone is darker, less cut in the highs. Not muddy though, it's a raunchy hard rock sound; very much like Doug Aldrich's tone on the DIO dvd Evil or Divine, which was the tone reference.
I too find it a versatile pickup, in the right guitar of course. In a bottom-heavy and dark topped guitar it won't work, unless you're after that sort of tone. I'm not.
-Zaned
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simply NBs don't match with your guitar. sometimes it happens... i had a set of Holy Divers (that are said to kick major ass in alder guitars, by the way) in a mahogany guitar tha wasn't too bassy acoustically... what i got from them was just buzzing and muddy sounds. setting the height helped a bit but didn't solve it. now HDs work wonderfully in anothe rguitar and the other one rocks with Rebel Yells.
sometimes it happens.
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I'm quite surprised that the Nailbomb is the top selling BKP - I'd have put money on the Mule then the Warpig.
I must try the Ceramic Nailbomb and try it up against a Cold Sweat, Painkiller and a Miracle Man to see how it compares to the other ceramic magnet options.
I have really liked the A5 Nailbomb in some guitars but have always opted for something with more treble for my own personal axes.
I think one of the things that shaped my opinion was hearing Steve Stevens playing live with Billy Idol 4 years ago and commenting later that a certain guitar (white LP as I recall) didn't have the same cut as other ones he used in the set. I found out that the white one had a Nailbomb set and the others had the newly developed Rebel Yell .
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My amps are modified Marshalls JCM800 and plexi heads. NB, I tried in KV-2, was A5-version. I had C-bomb in mahogany bodied Dinky and it was amazing. I sold that guitar and I have missed that pickup. To my ears it is real metal pick up: tight, evil, pretty much compression - quite lot difference to A5-bomb... maybe something like darker and hotter CS, something like Painkiller too, like somebody has described it. I chooce Painkiller to that KV-2, because I like PKs insane midrange punch so much.
cool, do you think the painkiller is more compressed than c-bomb?
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My amps are modified Marshalls JCM800 and plexi heads. NB, I tried in KV-2, was A5-version. I had C-bomb in mahogany bodied Dinky and it was amazing. I sold that guitar and I have missed that pickup. To my ears it is real metal pick up: tight, evil, pretty much compression - quite lot difference to A5-bomb... maybe something like darker and hotter CS, something like Painkiller too, like somebody has described it. I chooce Painkiller to that KV-2, because I like PKs insane midrange punch so much.
cool, do you think the painkiller is more compressed than c-bomb?
Maybe main difference is amount of mid. C-bomb has quite a lot of mids but PK huge amount of them.
I think that HD is best "all-rounder" for heavy stuff - I have had many of them in alder-Jacksons and basswood-Ibanezs always with great results, but in my mahogany bodied dark sounding Dinky it was too dark, even muddy. Sometimes it happens...
Next week I'm going to order new pickup to my strat (alder, rosewood, OFH, 1 hum) and maybe it's going to be Rebel Yell in some nice '80-styled colouring (black/yellow-zebra maybe). It has great midrange cut and lot of presence, something like PKs "alnico little brother"...
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I must try the Ceramic Nailbomb and try it up against a Cold Sweat, Painkiller and a Miracle Man to see how it compares to the other ceramic magnet options.
I have really liked the A5 Nailbomb in some guitars but have always opted for something with more treble for my own personal axes.
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I recently took a set of A5 Nailbombs out of an Ibanez RGT (mahogany through neck and body, locking nut and floyd) because they over emphasised the natural middyness of that guitar too much for my liking - and fitted a set of C Bombs and they are superb - can only describe the core tone in mahogany as somewhere between A5 Bombs and Painkillers....or like a more organic and breathy Painkiller.
(when I ordered them Tim said that with a calibrated set of C Bombs he usually puts an alnico magnet in the neck pup, but I asked for ceramic magnets all round so he fitted both pups with the same ceramic magnets he uses in Painkillers - I also asked for nickel allen bolt pole screws instead of the soft iron slot head types)
I put the A5 Nailbombs in another RG, this one with a basswood body and bolt on unbound all maple neck/board, with the pups mounted on the pickguard as per a Strat, and the true depth and versatilty of the Nailbombs really shines through now - far from being a one trick pony they can handle anything from folk rock through jazz rock right up to drop tuned industrial thrash and shredding with aplomb - just remember why your guitar has tone and volume controls :P
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I sold my nailbombs cause they were way too articulated and tight sounding
they sounded quite bright and focused in my '73 LP custom
not muddy at all
maybe I was actually looking for something "muddier" :lol:
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This Topic is really an interesting one !
I had a similar-ish question I put in one topic some time ago : The NB I tried didn't worked for me as well. It was too dark, too smooth, and not the "huge agressive assault" I was expecting from its description.
The RY, still alnico V, has to me far more presence and bite when I tried it in an SG type guitar. It was also tighter than the NB.
So I'd say now that the NB doesn't work in every guitar and doesn't match all tastes but on the other side it has that ability of being versatile while covering lots of music styles, from metal to blues, whereas the Crawler does it from blues to "metal" while being equally at ease in a strat or an LP, as it's description says...
That said, if your were looking for a passive humbucker to replace the EMG81 of your RR24, and expecting same kind of tightness and agressivity, you must - at least - stay with a Ceramic magnet. I think that ANY alnico V magnet will be too warm and loose for you.
There an exchange policy at BKP, see with Tim with you still can benefit from it and go with what he and the other here said before : The painkiller ! :twisted:
Also ask Antag about his clips of the PK in his KV2 and also ask Gwem about his choice to replace the EMG81 of his RR24.
Note that the Miracle Man would also be one stunning option for the RR24, maybe less agressive and present than the PK, but with *maybe* more balls and thickness on the chuggy-palm-mute-works !
Good luck ! :!
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Another post of defense for the nailbomb. I recently replaced a jb with the nailbomb in the bridge of my jackson dk2s (alder body, maple neck, rosewood) and it is fantastic. It is not as middy as the jb (which is good as the jb was too middy), it has great low end, it cleans up amazing and the lead tones are fantastic. I would never say the nb is muddy. On the other hand i have never played that guitar through a mk iii. But on every other tube amp i have played (about 9), it sounds exceptional.
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Perhaps the solder joints are at fault. A good quality joint will definitely help. Also, the pots may a tad dark for your setup. Perhaps a 750k or a 1000k? Seeing as you've swapped all the active compatible electronics for some passive ones, maybe there's a slight muckup with the solder job? Could happen. :)
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Is the OP Spiritcrusher from HC/maplifiers? If so, your tone wasn't muddy in the clips you posted!
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My amps are modified Marshalls JCM800 and plexi heads. NB, I tried in KV-2, was A5-version. I had C-bomb in mahogany bodied Dinky and it was amazing. I sold that guitar and I have missed that pickup. To my ears it is real metal pick up: tight, evil, pretty much compression - quite lot difference to A5-bomb... maybe something like darker and hotter CS, something like Painkiller too, like somebody has described it. I chooce Painkiller to that KV-2, because I like PKs insane midrange punch so much.
cool, do you think the painkiller is more compressed than c-bomb?
No. The c-bomb is the more compressed pickup.
Niether are very compressed though.