Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: HTH AMPS on January 24, 2010, 06:59:58 PM
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On the back of all these new 1w amp heads, or heads with 1w options, I'm wondering how much people would pay for such a head.
I'm thinking of a highish gain design built around a hotrodded JCM800 type preamp (3x ECC83) with a single ECC82 output stage.
Pretty simple controls... gain, bass, middle, treble, presence, master volume. Birdcage style chassis like the Orange Tiny Terror and the Vox Nightrain etc...
Of course mine would be all PTP wired with good quality caps and transformers.
So the big question is how much would you pay?
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Not my kinda thing I'm afraid mate! I'm sure they're THAT popular? Nice as an add-on to a higher powered amp maybe, but not as a stand alone amp?
The ZVex Nano being a prime example...
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I have a few low powered heads (the prototype and first off the line Lexicon Signature 284, a McIntyre Studio 205 and a switchable valve 5/8 watter). I would be more interested in the amp you made for Jonathan, that has a great sound. For me 1 watt is too low, I do run my JTM45 at 3 in the house when I can! I am thinking of a Jet City PicoValve or the Traynor Dark horse (I like the idea of 2 power amps - I wanted one a few years ago with a footpedal to blend them but I couldn't get any one to build it - so now I just use 2 amps!).
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I can't really speak of price as i'm not on your side of the pond, but from a discussion with my boss about actually stocking the lower wattage amps and like the epi valve jr, the dark horse, the vox night train and AC4, we came to the conclusion that most people wouldn't want to pay for lower watts simply because they don't know how loud it could be and won't buy anything under 100w (overkill, i know...). and for the people who do want a home practice amp, it would be too loud anyway.
it would take a few good years (locally) of working the crowd to generate interest and buzz. now, i know a few players who actually know the fact that it's fun to have a lower wattage amp for home practice, but most of these seasonned players gig and actually have more incentive to buy gear for their gigging than for their home practice, because most of the time they play loud regularly. the concept is great, but i don't beleive it is viable unless you have the funding to back up the experiment.
i guess i'd pay around 500-600$ for such a head though, but i'd like it to switch between low power and ''quiet drummer'' power (like 1 to 5-10 watts, dual power tube design..), though at that point, maybe i'd consider building it myself for myself only. a fun project, and a good piece of gear to keep around :D
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I think that low powered heads are getting more popular as there are lots of bedroom guitarists popping up, like me.
However I think they are usually happy with things like line 6 and digital or solid state modelling stuff.
It has to be really versatile to compete with these types of amps. Shared EQ would be ok But ide like headphone/line out and a boost as well as gain, both footswitchable. and a good effects loop.
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would there be more interest in offering a 1w mod to existing amps as a kit? - the majority of amps out there with effects loops could most likely run into an external 1w power amp via the effects send. the external power amp would need jacks to plug your existing amp into to load the host amp, but it shouldn't be too difficult and could also be offered at quite a cheap price.
could offer this king of thing with various options, e.g. 1w ECC82, 3w ECC99, 5w EL84/6V6, 10w EL34/6L6
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I presume the results would vary massively depending what you plug it in to.
Maybe people would just use a pedal instead for low volume.
There's room for a 1w metal amp for the bedroom though
My mate is thinking about getting one. To be honest, having had a nose around I think the best option for home use is a digital / pre-amp valve hybrid at the moment.
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I am one of the advocates of lower power but big sounding amps
Mainly I have finally admitted to myself that I am not about to join a band and get a deal and play big venues, but I do still love guitar playing so much that I still want the best gear and best sounding amps, but I just want them at volumes that I can use at home and that are fair for the neighbours
One of the reasons that I love having a rack mounted system is that I keep my power amp separately to my preamp and FX units, so I can invest my money on the preamp and FX without it ever being wasted if I needed more power or less power.
Then I can choose to run it via a small 10w power section - or smaller for late at night
I can always hook it up to a 50w or 100w power amp if I wanted to or needed to for a gig, or jamming etc
I know where HTH is coming from in that the parts required to make a 1watt or 10w amp dont come to that much less than a 100w amp, and there really isn't any less time taken making it - so the end price tends to be the same
The difference is that you can use it at home or in the stdio without getting evicted
Also with a big amp you have to keep the dial on 1 or less and you just dont get the best out of it when using at home
It is sad that a vast majority of the big amps sold lurk in bedrooms and never get used above 1 or 2 on the volume scale when they might really sing at 5 or 6.
I just wanted an amp that I could have singing at manageable volumes
The trouble is to stop players viewing smaller powered amps as toys , novelties or something not worthy of respect
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A lot of these very low watt amps use twin triodes.
Has anyone tried using as 2 EF86s in PP, which by my reckoning should just about scr@pe 1W?
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It is sad that a vast majority of the big amps sold lurk in bedrooms and never get used above 1 or 2 on the volume scale when they might really sing at 5 or 6.
I just wanted an amp that I could have singing at manageable volumes
The trouble is to stop players viewing smaller powered amps as toys , novelties or something not worthy of respect
this is exactly the problem with the industry! the newer players forgot the joys of the ac15, which was already pretty loud to begin with.
in the era of smaller clubs and quality P.A. systems, a low power tube guitar amp is definitely the way to go
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...a highish gain design built around a hotrodded JCM800 type preamp (3x ECC83) with a single ECC82 output stage.
If it actually sounds like that, I'd be firmly interested :)
I voted £499. Of course, I'd be happy to get it for free less but as Jonathan rightly points out, there's not that much less in time or parts that goes into a big amp.
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To those who voted £399 (or more), form an orderly queue! :D
As HTH says, it was quite a hard decision to price the Cub at £395; any less and I'd make no money on it at all. It probably won't stay at that price. I doubt there is much of a market for this kind of thing.
BTW I can definitely play my Cub cranked in my bedroom, it's not that loud.
I'm quite happy to consider a higher gain version if anyone wants one.
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...a highish gain design built around a hotrodded JCM800 type preamp (3x ECC83) with a single ECC82 output stage.
If it actually sounds like that, I'd be firmly interested :)
Likewise.
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i've always been a bit annoyed that all the low wattage amps are such simple things. yes, very simple amps are great and sound wonderful. but i'd like to see a fully featured multi channel amp with effects loops and all, but with an output that most real humans can actually use. just because i might be playing at home doesn't mean a volume knob and maybe, if i'm lucky, a tone pot is all i need! there's the Blackstar HT-5, but that's about it. even that new Mesa one doesn't have a Mids pot, and probably costs a medium to large fortune!
i really like the idea of the power stage that can be attached to an existing amp. ideally though, i'd like to see full size amps with a little switch to go from the ordinary big loud power amp to a little one watter built into the same chassis. if you were plugging it in from the amp's effect output, how would that work? does taking an out and not sending anything to the return mean the amp's own power section doesn't get any signal?
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if you were plugging it in from the amp's effect output, how would that work? does taking an out and not sending anything to the return mean the amp's own power section doesn't get any signal?
Good point. What about speaker load?
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i'd be happy to pay £299 for your preamp in a 1U rack mate
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I'm one of the folks with an AC4TV (Chinese? Not sure, mass produced thingy anyway).
Anyway, at ~£150 for a practice valve amp, and the tones it gave out, it felt like a steal...
Mine's got 4W, 1W and 1/4W settings - I can use 1/4W at the weekend (I like the volume on around 3/4 to get the tone I want) but not evenings during the week. I don't feel comfortable using the 1W for anything other than sparkly clean low volumes, and the 4W is just a hoot for all concerned :lol:
The rest of the time I'm using a modellor, which is far more versatile, and once both rigs are "cooking" is just as enjoyable to play through - the advantage the modellor has is that it can get the enjoyment down to seriously managable volumes...
I've tried an overdrive pedal for "lower volume" work on the AC4TV - but, to be honest, for me, using a valve amp like that sounds utterly shytte compared to what comes out of my modellors. I've even tried the modellors through the AC4TV - better than pedals, but sucks in comparison to either the modellor through the desk or the AC4TV driven at least 1/2 way on the volume (and it's hit its neighbour worrying loudness by then).
I love the tone from the AC4TV, especially the 1W setting, 3/4 volume. But I really couldn't have justified going over £200 for a "luxury" item with my current amount of kit and resources.
If I was going to gig, I'd probably be looking at the same sort of amp (no master) that I could run at full tilt and control via the guitar without pedals (I'm guessing that would be ~18W max based on the gigs I used to do with a 50W master vol amp). For that, I'd be prepared to spend sensible money to get a class amp... but I'm not planning on gigging...
My gut feeling is that folks like me might be your possible market... But, personally, if I was gonna start spending the amount you'd need to break even, I'd be wanting a giggable amp, so I wouldn't be thinking 1W.
So, sadly, on this one I had to vote "Not interested" in buying such a thing. I am very interested in what you're doing, and if I lived somewhere I could play a decent amp at a decent volume I'd have been talking to several of you guys already... I could justify ptp to myself nowadays, but not if I couldn't ever use it to it's potential :(
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thanks for all the responses so far. from what I can gather, there would be interest in a 1w amp that did the hotrodded JCM800 thing with gain, bass, middle, treble, master and presence controls - may even be able to put a resonance control in there too.
anyone who's heard my amps knows I'm into the hotrodded JCM800 thing in a big way, check it out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-vNNMyWMU
so if I can knock out a 1w JCM800 hotrod for £499, there would be interest??? - what would be best is if I could get 5 people interested in such an amp so we can get a price break on expensive parts of the amp. anyone who's seriously interested and who would be able to put down a deposit once we've all agreed on the final design, PM me.
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I like the idea of a seriously built 1w amp! But I can't say about the price because obviously it's not my currency... But I'm not sure if is there a market for it, unfortunatelly... I'm with those who thinks the neighborhood doesn't need to listen you practicizing ( again no really knowledge on UK )
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1w is still loud enough to get you an asbo at full tilt.
I looked at getting a Bümbox Lead 1 (http://sombrabella.com/bumbox/) (which was around the $600 mark if I recall correctly) about a year ago but the bloke who makes them wouldn't ship to the UK.
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1w is still loud enough to get you an asbo at full tilt.
I looked at getting a Bümbox Lead 1 (http://sombrabella.com/bumbox/) (which was around the $600 mark if I recall correctly) about a year ago but the bloke who makes them wouldn't ship to the UK.
Sounds good, though I'd be looking for more gain myself. I wonder why he's used the 6N1P for the output stage - looking at the data sheet, I can't see any reason to use a relatively obscure valve like this over a 12AU7.