Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Fourth Feline on February 18, 2010, 02:07:31 PM
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Hi, :)
Just a few things I would have liked to have known at the outset ; but at least gave rise to a lot of enjoyable experiments. My observations are not ( of course ! ) given as the irrefutable truth, just stuff that I gleaned along the way. In fact I posted it partly to enjoy learning from contrary opinions - and of course for the 'lurkers' who might visit for Archtop fodder.
1) Bare Knuckle pickups are very sensitive to adjustment - in the best possible way.
Half a turn of the height adjusters, can hit your favourite 'sweet spot' - or dial it out again. This is a mark of great quality, as on the Archtop / Jazzer, what you are usually hearing is the raw sound. No stock pickups I have ever tried differed much until I had moved them 2-3 whole turns. I know this is "Preaching to the choir " for most people, but if you are new to B.K.P. make no assumptions until you have spent time listening, and adjusting.
2) Of the budget ( sub £300 category ) Hollow Archtops - Ibanez are the best 'straight out of the box' .
The Vintage turned out very well, but it's finish is relatively fragile, and the stock hardware was swiftly replaced. The Ibby has good hardware, is very well designed / proportioned, is tough as old boots ( whilst still having the best sonic presentation / projection ) and the 'stock' hardware saves you £ 50 + of your 'upgrade' budget. I may just have been lucky, but I suspect not.
3) String heavy, set the truss rod - use as designed.
I have tried lighter and heavier strings , but for Jazz / chord melody , go heavy and set the truss rod accordingly. This not only holds the strings in place beneath your fingers better for clean chording - but also seems to create extra resonance as considerable truss rod and string tension meet. A well set up archtop with 13s- 14s on It's still going to be easier to play than a Les Paul with 11's - If it has a set back 'Lyre' type tailpiece. Use for the purpose it was designed, ( i.e no bends beyond 1/4 tone bends ). This enables an action of 0.5 mm at the 12th fret. The bridge is most probably the 'floating' type, so bending is going to feel different anyway.
4) Use a wooden bridge.
This is not an 'all or nothing' thing, but I love the sweeter presentation, and the mild blending of notes it provides. The intonation is still easy to set, in fact easier than the ( non - compensated type ) Telecaster 3 saddle bridges I have had. Heavier strings seem to intonate much better anyway.
5) Don't be put off by the mystique / snobbery associated with playing Jazzier styles.
It's just a steeper learning curve at the outset. It's not 'better' knowledge , it's not 'higher' knowledge - it's just 'new stuff' - much as any genre. The person playing Neo-Classical Rock / Metal is probably sweating over much the same stuff. As an existing player, you can use all the stuff you already know - just differently .
6) Take it slow, enjoy the journey - find your own path.
I apologise in advance if much of what I have written is self evident, but it is ( hopefully ) a starting point.
Cheers ! :)
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2) Of the budget ( sub £300 category ) Hollow Archtops - Ibanez are the best 'straight out of the box' .
The Vintage turned out very well, but it's finish is relatively fragile, and the stock hardware was swiftly replaced. The Ibby has good hardware, is very well designed / proportioned, is tough as old boots ( whilst still having the best sonic presentation / projection ) and the 'stock' hardware saves you £ 50 + of your 'upgrade' budget. I may just have been lucky, but I suspect not.
Have you got an Ibanez as well as the Vintage now then Derek? Tell us more, or did I miss a thread?
(Very interesting post, although I don't think the archtop world is for me :) )
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Hiya Philly ! :D
Yes, the Ibanez crept in under the radar , only being mentioned /pictured briefly in the 'AIV stormies in an Archtop' players section. Here it is again :
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/ee2b9a9b.jpg)
It was photographed when I was experimenting with the M.Qs - but they are not airy and detailed enough for this very specific use.
It came to be, when I had found myself with an un-used pair of Stormy Mondays, and the wish to have one roundwound strung and one flatwound strung pair of Jazzers. Both sort of strings being great in their own right. In the end , certain comments by 'Gingataff' made me realise that total string silence is not compulsory, or ( often ) even desirable.
It has ended up as one AII Stormy Monday roundwound rigged Jazzer - being the Ibanez ( it's also smaller on the knee for mucho practice ) and one roundwound strung Manhattan guitar. The important note being that I use T.I 'Be-Bop' strings, which have relatively light bass strings, for comfy chording - without sacrificing volume / tone balance. Both the recent AIV demo - and the AII demo in the players section, being on the Ibanez.
Sorted ! :D
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Ah, I did miss the other thread - I don't spend much time in the Players forum (too intimidating!).
I had a listen to both clips. I like both the AII and AIV, would be hard-pressed to pick between them. I must say, those clean jazz tones leave the player very "exposed"... a little scary really!
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I often think I need to get my paws on a MiJ or MiK Epiphone Emperor.
Then eject the electronics from it and install BKPs; either Stormy Mondays or Manhattans or one of each. Unless I got my claws into one of the Emperors with a single floating minibucker.
Trying to get a James Blood Ulmer tone. Cats like!
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I simply don't GET jazz for the most part, it doesn't move me. Some great playing, but I'm a basher anyway - I don't have the finesse for that intricate stuff.
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Might as well contribute seeing as there seem to be very few jazz guys on the BKP forum.
My 'budget' (under £500) full hollowbody archtop is a beautiful Godin Kingpin with a custom BK A3 underwound P90 in place of stock, and the pots changed from 250k to 500k (why they originally put 250s in there I don't know).
Like Cat No.4 I also use TI BeBop strings (currently 13s, but may well try the 14s next time). I play through a silverface Fender Champ, Princeton Reverb or Vibrolux Reverb depending on the size of the venue and generally aim for a fairly crisp, Grant Green type sound (he mostly played a Gibson 330), although by rolling back the tone I can easily get the more ubiquitous, damped jazz tone.
For jazz/rock/funk/fusion I have a non-budget (although good-price 2nd hand) Gibson 335 reissue which will eventully (once I have the funds) be the happy owner of a pair of A2 unpotted Stormy Mondays (which I had in a previous 335 copy and loved).
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One of the many interesting points FF made in the opening post was the fact that the increased tension in heavy strings allied to the inevitable tightening of the truss rod improves sustain. I'd never thought of that, but it is self evidently true. Not something I can take advantage of as I have to string mine light (10's) because of hand troubles.
I'm not a jazzer and I bought mine to get a smokey blues tone. It delivered that nicely and so much more besides. When I tried playing Beatles stuff with it it seemed to sing then it occurred to me that at one time they were an archtop band.
Anyway here's a snippet of mine. It's only recorded with a Garageband amp, but I've got an amp on order which will let me explore further.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7997322
I like the sound of an archie on rock settings too.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8783512
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I'm not sure adjusting the truss rod would affect string tension.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would only affect the degree of bow of the neck as, once the neck is the desired relief, and the bridge/intonation suitably adjusted, any change in string tension that has occurred through adjusting the truss will be negated once the strings are re-tuned.
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'When I tried playing Beatles stuff with it it seemed to sing then it occurred to me that at one time they were an archtop band.'
Everyone forgets that rock n roll/blues/RNB/country, etc were in full swing long before the solidbody electric was around.
Scotty Moore, Carl Perkins, T Bone Walker, John Lee Hooker & co all played archtops.
It seems a shame that it's only really jazz guys, C&W players or eccentrics like Ted Nugent and Brian Setzer that play them nowadays, especially as you no longer have to pay ££££ for a decent one.
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I simply don't GET jazz for the most part, it doesn't move me. Some great playing, but I'm a basher anyway - I don't have the finesse for that intricate stuff.
Perhaps surprisingly, I largely agree . I don't usually listen to much Jazz, beyond the Ballads, and touches of Steely Dan , Miles Davies , Joe Pass ( because I like, and owe a debt to , the man himself ) - and 'crossover' artists like Larry Carlton. My own 'project' / intention was to learn how to " Play a nice tune" upon request, and find relaxation doing it. I give an ( over generalised ) epithet of 'Jazz' - or 'Jazz-ish' to what I currently study - to denote that it is probably more like Jazz than Rock. As I cannot sing, the only way I could hope to live / share the ballads I love - would be to try and arrange them, however naively. :)
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I must say, those clean jazz tones leave the player very "exposed"... a little scary really!
A little scary ? a LOT scary more like ... :lol:
Part of the fun / discipline / technical improvement I seek , is to try and control that - Just in case I ever need to play it through my Fender " Twin Amp"- or ( Heavens help me ) if I ever get an actual audience ! It's a baptism of fire really ; no effects, no mercy, no excuses. A personal journey of re-building, not a crusade that I think other people should be joining. I'm investing now in what I think would be needed / enjoyed in my later musical years. :)
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I'm not sure adjusting the truss rod would affect string tension.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would only affect the degree of bow of the neck as, once the neck is the desired relief, and the bridge/intonation suitably adjusted, any change in string tension that has occurred through adjusting the truss will be negated once the strings are re-tuned.
Hi, :)
Yes, it is in the act of trying to 'negate' the ( considerable ) string tension, that the phenomena occurs. :)
I meant that ( as discussed with a local luthier back in the 70s ) - the intrinsic tension of a much heavier set of strings, allows me to crank the truss rod up. The end result being, that with the truss rod steel, straining against that much tension - the resulting resonance seemed to subtly bring the neck 'alive' in a way that 9 - 10 gauge strings and a much looser truss rod setting ever did. The effect being more than just it having heavier = louder strings. When the heavy strings ( with their fixed and predictable tension ) allowed the truss rod to be pulled up tighter than ever before , it seemed to acquire a character closer to that of a tuning fork - than a piece of relatively 'dead' metal in the neck. The Luthier I discussed this with all that time ago, was of the gentle opinion that " Guitars seem to like heavier strings - and the conditions that allows / creates" . :)
(* Edit *)
I find that if I string my Les Paul 10-52 instead of 10-46, the top three strings 'sing' better - they seem to come alive somehow.
Oh, and if I have not said it before, Welcome to the forum ! :D
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I often think I need to get my paws on a MiJ or MiK Epiphone Emperor.
Then eject the electronics from it and install BKPs; either Stormy Mondays or Manhattans or one of each. Unless I got my claws into one of the Emperors with a single floating minibucker.
Trying to get a James Blood Ulmer tone. Cats like!
Hiya, :)
I know this will sound rather obvious, but for this usage, gauge of strings - I would be careful to choose a guitar with a 24.7 " scale - in preference to a 25.5" scale, unless you like 'em stiff ! It's that old Fender vs Gibson 'feel' all over again. Looking back , it was a longer scale Jazzer that put me off trying to learn Jazz years ago.
Also, for chording cleanly, I find that a neck which widens out fairly quickly after the nut, is better for fitting all your fingers in the same area. My 'Vintage' 175 type copy, remains faithful to Gibson neck dimensions / width - and is nice to play on, but when I later tried the Ibanez, it was like having a bigger playground to run around in. It's subtle, but the extra little bit of accumulating neck width that is not as obvious to the eye, is very obvious to the hand , especially when chording around the 10th - 12th frets and above. :)
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One of the many interesting points FF made in the opening post was the fact that the increased tension in heavy strings allied to the inevitable tightening of the truss rod improves sustain. I'd never thought of that, but it is self evidently true. Not something I can take advantage of as I have to string mine light (10's) because of hand troubles.
I'm not a jazzer and I bought mine to get a smokey blues tone. It delivered that nicely and so much more besides. When I tried playing Beatles stuff with it it seemed to sing then it occurred to me that at one time they were an archtop band.
Anyway here's a snippet of mine. It's only recorded with a Garageband amp, but I've got an amp on order which will let me explore further.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7997322
I like the sound of an archie on rock settings too.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8783512
I love that 'fruity' tone ! There is that definate 'Jazz' quality about it, a depth behind the notes - and a lovely Archtop type 'Bloom' on the notes. I enjoyed the playing too ! It has the quality of sound and composition that grabbed my ears and emotions one fateful night in a local Wine Bar back in the late 70s. Blues that made you listen, and put the 'Spock grip' on the day's stresses. Keep the Eastman, you can play it , you sure can play it ! :D
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What I REALLY can't stand is fusion, urgh!!!! :snipe:
I used to have a BB King album on tape (cassette) and it was all jazzy, very unlike BB's usual stuff - sounded quite accomplished too. Anyone know what that album is called?
Also, what would be a good place to start with some jazz? - from the odd bits and pieces I've heard over the years, I like that raw stripped-back sound with the brass taking the leads more than guitars.
Here's a few I found on youtube that sound pretty cool...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvCDCOGzGc (love that 'riff' he does at 2:06 before swapping over to the other dude - just learnt it, will slip that cheeky little riff into a solo when my cover band next gigs. Maybe in Ready An Willing, it's got just the right pace and it'll stand out) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmmFKu4FEbc&feature=related This one is cool too - he lets rip at the start, then it settles down into a cool groove. I'm wishing I had some herbal jazz cigarettes here to bliss out and I'd be done, ha ha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjwVwASlVn4&feature=related (I like the use of space in this one, then those crazy fast jazz runs, but tastefully done - I like the trumpet dude more than the sax guy though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTfBpKzu6XA (some tasty drumming on this one)
Right, I'm off to play my big-box guitar and Polytone amp.
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
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What I REALLY can't stand is fusion, urgh!!!! :snipe:
I used to have a BB King album on tape (cassette) and it was all jazzy, very unlike BB's usual stuff - sounded quite accomplished too. Anyone know what that album is called?
Also, what would be a good place to start with some jazz? - from the odd bits and pieces I've heard over the years, I like that raw stripped-back sound with the brass taking the leads more than guitars.
Here's a few I found on youtube that sound pretty cool...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvCDCOGzGc (love that 'riff' he does at 2:06 before swapping over to the other dude - just learnt it, will slip that cheeky little riff into a solo when my cover band next gigs. Maybe in Ready An Willing, it's got just the right pace and it'll stand out) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmmFKu4FEbc&feature=related This one is cool too - he lets rip at the start, then it settles down into a cool groove. I'm wishing I had some herbal jazz cigarettes here to bliss out and I'd be done, ha ha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjwVwASlVn4&feature=related (I like the use of space in this one, then those crazy fast jazz runs, but tastefully done - I like the trumpet dude more than the sax guy though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTfBpKzu6XA (some tasty drumming on this one)
Right, I'm off to play my big-box guitar and Polytone amp.
I am unable to get the my old casstte collection, but I am pretty sure the B.B.King album you refer to was the early 80's ' Jazz and Blues ' - the one with " Sell my Monkey " on ? I know it followed the album 'Love Me Tender' - on which the 2-3 note phrase opening the heart rending track " I've always got the Blues " just floored me, especially I was going through the same romantic devastation he sung about.
I love the way that first riff ( you brought to our attention ) kind of quickly dominates the band. It's that subtle way that he uses a slight change of pace and hook line ; it sort of insinuates itself into your sub-conscious, invited or not . Again, it's melody - be it obvious or gently oblique - that wins the day. 8)
In the second clip, I also love how the elevator goes down on that one ; restless foreplay , assured 'union'.
As for " The trumpet guy " - Miles Davies ; I always think of him as the Peter Green of the Brass section. His music is used in case mass refrigeration units break down : even listening to the track on 'You Tube' can cause permafrost on your keyboard , screen and modem. 8)
As for fusion, I agree : can we sign a petition ? :lol:
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
VERY nice, I love that 'Flowerpot' headstock inlay that only the high(est) end Gibson Archtops have . Just a shame about his typical Jazz cliched playing ... :lol: My choice would be the L5 Wes Montgomery custom : not for it's provenance, but for it's cosmetic opulence yet ' no frills' sonic design. However, at circa £6,000 - I could get a 'real' Sadowsky, Benedetto - or similar !
Incidentally Martin ; a long overdue question for you ( as an amp guru ) : Which of your amp designs remains the most suitable for Chord Melody type Jazz ? I hear that Adrian Ingram uses a Matamp ( got to love these cheap copies of MJW amps :lol: ) with ( surprisingly ? ) 2 x EL34s and a Vintage 30 speaker. I would have thought it would end up shrill and middy as hell, but I'm wrong. I had the pleasure of trying a couple of your amps at Dave's once - and wondered how you have / would address the concept of "Clean for days " sound, aside from my 'usual' 6L6 or 7581a equipped Twin ? That 'Dumble' guy never returns my e:mails !
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Whilst I can fully understand the common vomit-based reaction to the term 'fusion' I feel it is a word that has an undeserved reputation, based on a lot of very dreary music that became popular in the late 70s/early 80s from bands like Yellowjackets & Spyro Gyra, guitarists like Frank Gambale & Mike Stern, and even the great Miles Davis himself.
I have to say that the usual aforementioned reaction is usually provoked in individuals who have not been exposed to some of the unequivocally tremendous 'electric jazz' that emerged in the late 60s/early 70s, long before the name 'fusion' came about.
If you doubt me, I dare you to check out the following albums (or individual tracks thereof), as examples of musicians playing with the freedom, invention and group creativity of jazz, but with the sounds and attitude of rock/RnB:
Miles Davis: In A Silent Way, Tribute To Jack Johnson (John McLaughlin on gtr)
Weather Report: Sweetnighter
Mahavishnu Orchestra: Birds Of Fire (John McLaughlin on gtr)
Jeff Beck: Blow By Blow, Wired
Billy Cobham: Spectrum (Tommy Bolan on gtr)
Santana: Caravanserai
Herbie Hanc--k: Chameleon
Crusaders: 1 (Larry Carlton on gtr)
Larry Coryell: Introducing The Eleventh House
In terms of how best to get into jazz in general, it is so hard to recommend specific albums/artists as jazz has been around for a century - twice as long as rock - and every decade it metamorphosed into something else (e.g. 1930s = swing, 1940s = bebop, 1950s = cool jazz/hard bop, 1960s = soul jazz/free jazz/post-bop, 1970s = jazz-rock/jazz-funk, plus a huge upsurge in European folk/classical influenced jazz, etc etc - this is a v simplifed version BTW!)
Furthermore, the guitar has never been at the forefront of jazz (unlike rock/blues), so the music is often of less interest to guitarists than to say, sax/trumpet/piano players.
I think a lot of rock/blues based guitarists probably get into jazz via the 1970s electric jazz/rock route (maybe with some added 70s prog), first allowing their ears to appreciate the wider melodic/harmonic/rhythmic horizons of jazz in a rock-sounding setting (the Jeff Beck/Santana albums are a good example of this) and then finding that the familiar structures of rock start to feel restrictive and predictable thereby wanting to get into jazzier territory.
A few may also go headlong into jazz proper by one day hearing something that is so beautiful to listen to that it is irresistible (such as Bill Evans' 'My Foolish Heart', Keith Jarrett's 'Expectations', Miles Davis' 'Flamenco Sketches') and captures the heart immediately.
I know I've gone a fair bit here - sorry about that - but I just wanted to slightly redress the balance on what is always very much a rock/metal/indie dominated forum (not that I have a problem with that - I love my rock too!)
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
Sounds Great have quite a few Peerless guitars in Martin, I wanted to buy a Renaisance but the shipment was apparently stuck in customs for about 6 months so I bought the Tokai. But the ones I tried were really nice. In fact I tried a Renaisance the other day and got stuck playing it for about 45 mins! Although it's a thinline it's hollow so has a good depth to the tone. Very nice guitars priced just before the laws of diminishing returns come in to play!
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I think these guys are a good introduction to the Jazzier side of things, Grant Green especially as he keeps one toe in the blues....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKW40qCeql8&feature=related
I have no idea how to play Jazz but here's me having a go:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D48UP5Xa4jg
Just gotta go back to that blues scale though
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
ain't played that model, but I played a Peerless Tonemaster Special (3x P90) and VERY nearly bought it. the fact it would never get gigged is what made up my mind. the three volumes with all pickups on together was a great tone (obviously you find the best 'blend' of bridge/middle/neck to suit your needs).
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I think these guys are a good introduction to the Jazzier side of things, Grant Green especially as he keeps one toe in the blues....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKW40qCeql8&feature=related
I have no idea how to play Jazz but here's me having a go:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D48UP5Xa4jg
Just gotta go back to that blues scale though
I love that Grant Green tone and inventive melodicism . :)
I also liked your 'You Tubery' : it had some lovely elements of Dave Gilmour, J.J.Cale and Django Reinhardt in there. The feel and pace was nice too. As for your closing comment, I can only say :
"Instead of taking the obvious first left at the Blues scale, take a second right - and have another drive through the Jazz neighbourhood ... " . 8)
Nice one Tom ! :)
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
VERY nice, I love that 'Flowerpot' headstock inlay that only the high(est) end Gibson Archtops have . Just a shame about his typical Jazz cliched playing ... :lol: My choice would be the L5 Wes Montgomery custom : not for it's provenance, but for it's cosmetic opulence yet ' no frills' sonic design. However, at circa £6,000 - I could get a 'real' Sadowsky, Benedetto - or similar !
Incidentally Martin ; a long overdue question for you ( as an amp guru ) : Which of your amp designs remains the most suitable for Chord Melody type Jazz ? I hear that Adrian Ingram uses a Matamp ( got to love these cheap copies of MJW amps :lol: ) with ( surprisingly ? ) 2 x EL34s and a Vintage 30 speaker. I would have thought it would end up shrill and middy as hell, but I'm wrong. I had the pleasure of trying a couple of your amps at Dave's once - and wondered how you have / would address the concept of "Clean for days " sound, aside from my 'usual' 6L6 or 7581a equipped Twin ? That 'Dumble' guy never returns my e:mails !
For me it's the rock tone you can get from the Byrdland. Special, and you can't get that from a 335 or similar.
Ah, the Adrian Ingram amp. I was amazed when I first played that (Adrian's actual one at the factory) at how gainy it was. I did some mods to it, which Adrian liked, taking a little bit of gain out and sweetening the first gain stage. The design of that reflected Dave Green's preferences more than Adrian's, IMO, hence the EL34s. Bit of an odd one, and not a great seller.
For cleaner stuff, I like my Roadstar 36 6V6, which I ususally tweak for a sweeter clean, and less gain. Adrian tried the EL84 version and loved it, which surprised me a little, it being a bit hairy chested. However, he utilised a little known jazz players trick of "turning it down"! :lol:
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I want a jazz guitar: one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HqRgdTyRU)
Sadly, out of my price range. :(
Anyone ever tried a Peerless Sunset?
Very similar spec to the Gibbo, but under £500.
Sounds Great have quite a few Peerless guitars in Martin, I wanted to buy a Renaisance but the shipment was apparently stuck in customs for about 6 months so I bought the Tokai. But the ones I tried were really nice. In fact I tried a Renaisance the other day and got stuck playing it for about 45 mins! Although it's a thinline it's hollow so has a good depth to the tone. Very nice guitars priced just before the laws of diminishing returns come in to play!
Yes, I saw a load last time I was in. No Sunset though. It has to be that one, cos it's Ted spec!
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Ah, the Adrian Ingram amp. I was amazed when I first played that (Adrian's actual one at the factory) at how gainy it was. I did some mods to it, which Adrian liked, taking a little bit of gain out and sweetening the first gain stage. The design of that reflected Dave Green's preferences more than Adrian's, IMO, hence the EL34s. Bit of an odd one, and not a great seller.
For cleaner stuff, I like my Roadstar 36 6V6, which I ususally tweak for a sweeter clean, and less gain. Adrian tried the EL84 version and loved it, which surprised me a little, it being a bit hairy chested. However, he utilised a little known jazz players trick of "turning it down"! :lol:
Thank you for that succulent insight Martin . :) I was fascinated ( but probably should have guessed ) that you were involved. Regarding that rather esoteric Jazz trick of " turning it down " - that does tend to come automatically when you have just started learning Jazz. With that level of detail - you get frightened daft by the thought that your fingering errors will be heard THIS LOUD.
I've just been looking at your 'Road Star' amps on the M.J.W website, and ( not surprisingly ) they look peachy ! :D
Thanks again Martin, great stuff !
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been watching all those video, then getting ideas and picking up the guitar
love how you jazz folk can play melodically yet step in and out dissonance so musically, advantage of the mellow tone?
erm why does mr ibanez make 4 different types of archtop? I couldn't find a difference apart from cosmetics but I was surprised by the 24.75" scale, what's typical jazz tuning? E standard?
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been watching all those video, then getting ideas and picking up the guitar
love how you jazz folk can play melodically yet step in and out dissonance so musically, advantage of the mellow tone?
erm why does mr ibanez make 4 different types of archtop? I couldn't find a difference apart from cosmetics but I was surprised by the 24.75" scale, what's typical jazz tuning? E standard?
Hiya , :)
Yes the clean tone is a great encouragement to work harder at the melodic / musical aspects. When there are no other pyrotechnics with which to seduce your listeners, you are more likely to resort to playing with 'tensions' and adding additional chord / scale 'colours'. Pull them in, throw a surprise or too at them, then fold back into their comfort zone again. It needn't be too technical, just running a bit sharp or flat , and then taking it 'back home' is very effective. Playing around with timing around the beat can also be effective, as can sudden accelerations and decelerations . There is an old Snowy White instrumental called " Out Of Order" - where he does fun things with his timing. :)
As for tuning ; it is E standard - but the mechanics of a full archtop ( with that tailpiece way back) allows heavier strings to feel lighter. The 24.75" scale is still my favourite, as 25.5" gets a bit stiff for me. It's mainly about creating the ( mechanical ) conditions to make a set of 13s or 14s feel like 10s or 11s.
The reason you are probably seeing 4 types of Archtop in the Ibanez stable is - ( to over generalise somewhat ) different widths of body, depths of body, then the woods and pickups used. Thankfully all the necks seem to be the same dimensions ( very nice ! ).
The AF series ( if I remember rightly ) being deeper than the AG series, although the cosmetics / appearance from the front look similar. There is also the lower cut away. The Sharper 'Florentine' ( Like a Gibson ES-175 ) or the fully rounded type ( Ibanez AF75 ). Ibanez seem to avoid the exact 'Florentine' lower cut away , and offer another 'sharpish' looking alternative.
Then of course , we start on the Semi-Acoustic '335' type guitars, but as they have ( apart from guitars like the Peerless Renaissance and Eastman EL-Ray ) a standard bridge and a wooden block inside - they are not really " In the gang" with the BIG boys ! :)
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cheers, played around with the using off notes in melody before but never got it sounding as good as jazz folk, never ever thought about the timing of it!
one thing I didn't say before, I seemed to have noticed a tread of arch tops and economy picking, jim bruno video I watched earlier, did a scale run, looked and felt so smooooooooooooth, makes me wonder how holdsworth picks as his widdle don't sound like widdle, but then he does try and make a guitar not sound like a guitar
if a tail piece makes the string less stiff, does it change the tone?
arch top > 355 (by a mile or 10)
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cheers, played around with the using off notes in melody before but never got it sounding as good as jazz folk, never ever thought about the timing of it!
one thing I didn't say before, I seemed to have noticed a tread of arch tops and economy picking, jim bruno video I watched earlier, did a scale run, looked and felt so smooooooooooooth, makes me wonder how holdsworth picks as his widdle don't sound like widdle, but then he does try and make a guitar not sound like a guitar
if a tail piece makes the string less stiff, does it change the tone?
arch top > 355 (by a mile or 10)
Hi, :)
The tailpiece is not knowingly used as a tone modifier as far as I know, but the materials of the floating bridge certainly do. All floating bridges have a wooden base, to 'flex' round the arched surface of the guitar top, and transfer as much of the vibration into the body. As for the top half of the bridge, you can use a 'standard' ( i.e. Gibson type ) metal top, or of course, use wood for all of it.
I am really glad you managed to see the Jimmy Bruno DVD ( The " No Nonsense Jazz guitar" one ? ). He is as good at putting the single note stuff in order, as Joe Pass was with the chordal stuff. Of course J.B. gets to that too.
I too noticed that Jimmy uses 'Economy picking' - but also I note that acomplished Jazz players can really flow- as opposed to just 'speed'. I feel that dexterity is helped by the fact they spend a lot of time filling between chords - and thinking about joining the ideas together - as opposed to trying too hard to get faster. In Jazz, the culture is such that you get no 'smarty points' for doing the latest famous player's " Speed licks" . The paradox being that when you think more about getting the ideas moving smoothly, you seem to end up 'curing' your speed obstacles . Think 'flow' and you get speed ; Think speed - and you may not get flow.
I love the delivery of that line in the Jimmy B. video, when he has just finished outlining certain basic symmetrical scales e.t.c - when ( addressing the need to get one thing right at a time ) he looks at the camera ; and with that Somewhat daunting / Mafioso type look , says " There can be NO doubt".
I could watch Joe Pass and Jimmy Bruno stuff, just for their characters alone. I love Joe Pass's dry sense of humour - when it appears.
Cheers !