Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: shobet on February 20, 2010, 10:32:44 PM
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What kind of pics do you lot use?
I've been a Dunlop Tortex 1.0 Standard user for many a year. I've been up and down through the gauges but I've been fairly consistent with my choice. However of late I've been trying all sorts of different materials, shapes and gauges and have found that some of them alter the way I pic and can have in some cases a drastic effect on my sound. Have the rest of you come across something similar or is it all in my head?
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Definitely not just "all in your head " Shobet .
Playing all this chord melody stuff , absolutely clean - and with very revealing pickups ; I can honestly even hear a noticeable difference in which way the pick faces. When doing the recent Forum sound clips ; I had to try a few of the same type / gauge of pick to get the smoothest , slightly duller one(s) - then try turning it round, to avoid getting the sharper of the two moulded edges.
I usually use B.K.P 1.14 mm (?) picks . Planet Waves celluloid 1.1mm are the nearest ( but stiffer sounding ) - then for feel, added accuracy and a brighter attack, those little 'dull black' Bakelite looking Dunlop Jazz 205s . I only wish the little 205s sounded as warm as the B.K.P picks . :)
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After years of using regular shaped Tortex .73 mm picks I have just started trying out the same gauge but in the teardrop shape like this (http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=14&pmh=products/picks). I've been consciously trying to use my fingers more to pluck the strings and the slightly smaller shape of the teardrop makes it easier to do that so for now I'll persist with them. I haven't experimented with different materials or thicknesses for years though: I think I'm too set in my ways and anything else sounds and feels weird.
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i use 1.5mm gator grips (dunlop)... mainly because I can grip them slightly better, and they don't wear out too quickly.
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Dave I didn't realise that there was anyone else out there using 1.5 gator grips as they are an unusual choice - but me too - to me they definately do add something and seem easier to control - regards David
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I played tortex pics for years in 1.14 guise. One day I forgot my pics and the parctice rooms only had uber thick 2mm gators or 1mm Dunlop Nylons.
I've been using the 1mm Nylons ever since, they just work for me. Unbelieveably I don't know anyone else locally who uses them.
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Ultex Jazz IIIs for me. I've been using them ever since they came out and I love them.
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Ultex Jazz IIIs for me. I've been using them ever since they came out and I love them.
Is there any 'click' and scr@pe on the strings with the Ultex ones like the 'usual' black and red types ? I thought they looked interesting for what I do, but suspect that they may be as bright and percussive as the older type. The Dunlop 205 are nice, but it's always worth knowing what undiscovered treasures are out there ! :)
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They're quite bright Derek - quite twangy. I don't like too smooth a raw note as I play quite aggressively. I can't imagine they'd be great for Jazz, lovely for rock and roll though ;)
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dunlop Nylon .88's for me.
Untill I find that pick of destiny.
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BKP picks of various sizes, think i'm using the 1.3mm at the moment, which i'm gonna pick up a few more of, as they're fantastic! Also the Dunlop Tortex 1mm (the blue one) is my all-round go-to pick-- bought a bag of 72 of them a few years ago, and still got loads left :) I've tried some of the thicker picks (2mm+), and I just can't get used to the size, I can't get any finesse with them, so i'll stick with the BKP for the most part :)
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I always feel a bit unhip using non-specialised picks, but I'm happy with Fender Heavies. They don't specify the gauge, but it's about 0.9mm. Any heavier than that they feel too rigid, I like them to flex a little. And I like the feel of transparent gel type picks, rather than nylon, tortex or whatever.
What Derek said about turning the pick round - I sometimes like to use the rounded corners rather than the point, which definitely gives a smoother, less pingy sound. Especially on the 339, which is a bit "snappy" acoustically. I believe that's what Robben Ford does... it's nice to have something in common with him. :lol:
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I use Red Bear No.9's in extra heavy gauge (1.65 - 2mm) with grip holes and the spead bevel :lol:
I am not going back to ultex or tortex or what ever
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I've opened a can of worms here, doing a little research around the subject and there's $%&#loads of information out there.
With all the posts here about guitars varying from cheep ones to custom shop credit card melters, I thought I'm skint at the moment, how can I change my sound without spending a lot of money. I think the humble pic is a somewhat overlooked factor in what gives you the sound your after, or are striving for, and lets face it they don't break the bank.
Some sites I've stumbled across in the last few days.
For collectors! - http://www.pickcollecting.com/
D'Andrea's role in the creation of the modern pic - http://www.dandreapicks.com/about.htm
The American Guitar Institute's guide for what the different gauges and compositions give you, feel and sound wise - http://www.americanguitarinstitute.com/pick.htm
Some of the manufacturers, I must admit I'd never heard of some of these.
http://www.davapick.com/
http://www.dandreapicks.com
http://www.steveclayton.com/
http://store.daddario.com/category/146399?language_id=1¤cy_id=1
http://www.rotosound.com/plectrums.html
http://admin.fender.com/uk/products/search.php?section=accessories&prod_prodSubType=Picks&num_per_page=50
http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/picks&cat=6
Arghhhhhh too much choice!
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I always feel a bit unhip using non-specialised picks, but I'm happy with Fender Heavies. They don't specify the gauge, but it's about 0.9mm. Any heavier than that they feel too rigid, I like them to flex a little. And I like the feel of transparent gel type picks, rather than nylon, tortex or whatever.
What Derek said about turning the pick round - I sometimes like to use the rounded corners rather than the point, which definitely gives a smoother, less pingy sound. Especially on the 339, which is a bit "snappy" acoustically. I believe that's what Robben Ford does... it's nice to have something in common with him. :lol:
This is going to sound very O.C.D of me Philly, but I actually meant ( in the case of BKP picks ) turning the lettering to the front, then to the back.
Nurse ! ... :roll:
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Aren't BKP picks re-badged D'Andreas ? Very nice whatever they are .
Thanks for the info on the 'Ultex Dave' ; and thanks for the interesting links Shobet . :)
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I use custom Red Bear asymetrical picks with a right hand speed bevel that Dave makes for me. They are based on the John Pearse studio set, which I used for years after John gave me a bag at NAMM one year because all the picks on our stand had gone. I really like the design because you can get great harmonics from it. I also use Red Bear for acoustic, with a pick that they copied from my old original tortoise shell pick (shown on the left in the lid. You can also see that I have gone through lots od different picks in the years that I've been playing.
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af302/philking/Guitars/Picks008.jpg)
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This is going to sound very O.C.D of me Philly, but I actually meant ( in the case of BKP picks ) turning the lettering to the front, then to the back.
Nurse ! ... :roll:
Nurse!!
I'm trying to hold him down, but he's stronger than he looks...!
Nurse?
NURSE!!!!! PDT_044
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Am I the only one who loves 3mm Nylon Big Stubbies?
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Dave I didn't realise that there was anyone else out there using 1.5 gator grips as they are an unusual choice - but me too - to me they definately do add something and seem easier to control - regards David
yeah, that's what i like. Also, when i used to use the bog standard nylons, or tortex (or whatever they were) i used to be able to destroy a plectrum in about an hour, it'd get serrated. Doesn't happen with the gator grips. :D
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They have a big effect on style and sound, for sure. Material, thickness, shape and pointiness all play their part.
Current favourites - Ibanez sandgrips, heavy.
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Here's most of my pick collection:
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/gingataff/picks.jpg)
Dunlops at the top, Tortex (the green ones are Dimebag Darrell & Andreas Kisser sig versions), Nylons, Jazz IIIs, Gator Grips, Stubby, and Delrin. Some have holes drilled in for grip.
Notice the broken Stylus Pick (note to self, picks do NOT work as screwdrivers).
Ibanez to the left, mostly signature picks: Vai, Scofield, Satriani, Benson & Gilbert.
BKP next to those and some Claytons (I don't use them as they're warped) and Big West Creation metal picks on the right: brass, nickel, aluminium, stainless steel and titanium.
The bottom rows are a DR pick (free with a set of strings), a fernandes Hanshin Tigers pick, 2 cow bone and 1 buffalo horn picks made by PickBoy and then a couple of Fenders. Finally another PickBoy with grip holes, a Teckpick and a couple of D'Aquistos.
My favourites vary but I usually fall back on the Fenders, Ibanez Satrianis and BKPs depending on how heavy or how sharp a tip I feel like using.
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Am I the only one who loves 3mm Nylon Big Stubbies?
you're not the only one, they were my pick of choice for so long, went back to the 2mm as I liked the extra string movement but the 3mm makes the guitar play itself
at the moment I've gone back to black jazz III xl picks, if I had some new big stubbies I might go back though
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I played tortex pics for years in 1.14 guise. One day I forgot my pics and the parctice rooms only had uber thick 2mm gators or 1mm Dunlop Nylons.
I've been using the 1mm Nylons ever since, they just work for me. Unbelieveably I don't know anyone else locally who uses them.
:lol:
Been using 1mm Dunlop nylons for years, and recently switched to tortex 1.14...
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I had been using Dunlop tortex 1.14mm for for a long time. I tend to go through picks quickly (either by wearing them out, losing them or lending them out never to be returned), so I got Steve Clayton to make a couple hundred for me. Feel exactly the same as the Dunlops, but have my name on them :)
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Am I the only one who loves 3mm Nylon Big Stubbies?
No, I like em too. I'n fact I panic if I have to use anything else.
I also like stone picks like these http://www.dugainpicks.com/
£14 for something I will lose in a week is a bit steep however.
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I've used .88mm grey Dunlop nylon picks since forever for electric. I can get away with the 1mm black one's if thats all I can get.
For acoustic I prefer thinner picks, the lighter grey Dunlop nylon 0.73mm one is spot on - gives that 'click' to the notes and isn't boomy on the bass end (I find thicker picks to make bass strings boomy on acoustics).
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I use a Jim Dunlop Eric Johnson Classic Jazz III for no better reason that I tried one, like it, too lazy to adapt to alternatives.
http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=371&pmh=products/p_and_e_detail
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They have a big effect on style and sound, for sure. Material, thickness, shape and pointiness all play their part.
Current favourites - Ibanez sandgrips, heavy.
Having just re-read that, I wanted to echo the fact that the pick can ( for me ) alter the style of playing - and not just the tone : a much overlooked factor of changing the seemingly little things.
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i'm another 3mm big stubby man , very good for developing right hand technique :lol: but they don't soften your tone any. also having closet country tendencies i use ring and middle fingers + pick and have realised what great tones can be had by using the middle finger and almost pulling the string to get that ping! dunlop 1mm nylons i sometimes use and i quite like the way they almost stick to the string. last but not least i liked my free bkp pick (included with my it's), i'm guessing .8mm ,the materiel it's made from does soften the attack.love your avatar shobet
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They have a big effect on style and sound, for sure. Material, thickness, shape and pointiness all play their part.
Current favourites - Ibanez sandgrips, heavy.
Having just re-read that, I wanted to echo the fact that the pick can ( for me ) alter the style of playing - and not just the tone : a much overlooked factor of changing the seemingly little things.
speaking of picks changing style
a pick completely changed my technique last year, I got some jazz III ultex but because they are so small I held them slightly different, which some how translated into angling my hand differently which in turn made me lower the guitar while standing and so looking more cool :D
I also managed to find a pick that was "too hard" 1.5mm tortex sharp, very pointed, combined with no flex, have to play absolute completely perfect, if it slips or moves from being pushed by the string, you hear it
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I think I'm too set in my ways and anything else sounds and feels weird.
+1 using tortex 0.88mm in the standard shape for a long time now
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Probably a strange question ( Oh what a surprise ! ) - but how do you chaps 'polish ' the edges off of your new Plectrums ? I have just received a pack of Dunlop Jazz 204s to try along side my 205s , and the edges are still at that 'just cast' stage on both. I once tried fine emery cloth soaked in WD40, but just made matters worse. Cheers !
(Oh, and where is the nearest Chemist open, so I can collect my medication ? :mrgreen: )
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For old pics and because I'm a tight ####!!, once they're blunt I'll rescue them by rubbing then on the carpet so they turn back into pointies. It turns worn normal tortex pics into more of a Jazz XL kind of shape.
Paul Gilbert taught me that from a magazine article many, many years ago.
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For old pics and because I'm a tight ####!!, once they're blunt I'll rescue them by rubbing then on the carpet so they turn back into pointies. It turns worn normal tortex pics into more of a Jazz XL kind of shape.
Paul Gilbert taught me that from a magazine article many, many years ago.
Thanks Shobet ; I'll try the carpet method. :)
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Have you tried the nylon ones; they are much warmer.
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I cut myself a little while ago sharpening a prectrum. With the plectrum.
Doh!
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Have you tried the nylon ones; they are much warmer.
I find the Dunlop Jazz IIIs very bright and 'clicky' compared to the ( rounded Bakelite-ish ) Jazz 205, 204s e.tc. I tried the Eric Johnsons, and standard reds and blacks. Even those old 'Eros' picks I had left over from the 70s. The reasonably sure bet for a warmer and more rounded attack / less pick noise, is a nice B.K.P heavy celluloid or similar ; but even they are not 'soft' by default. I enjoy the feel of a much smaller but heavy pick, so I keep searching ( and polishing ! ) Bear in mind, that I am playing absolutely clean, with very detailed pickups - so every nuance of the pick gets magnified, without sag , tone control rolling, or mild overdrive to sweeten things up. More the 'boring middle aged man discovers Nat King Cole ' style . :lol:
Are the nylon ones to which you refer - the 'Classic' Jazz IIIs , or another new item in the range ?
Cheers ! :)
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hey forth feline, what do you think to the 208, I got one my mate gave me years ago
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hey forth feline, what do you think to the 208, I got one my mate gave me years ago
I like the look of them, but I was thinking small, and just pointed enough to retain their characteristic accuracy ; not the full on size / point. As a series /design of picks, I really like them ; hence the seemingly eccentric mission to smooth and polish them all to a 'warm nose' . I was tempted to get a few of each, but realised that 205s are nigh on perfect for me , with only an experiment with the slighlty more rounded 204s at the same feel and weight. What style of playing do you use the 208s for - and how do you find them ? :)
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Wicked thread!
I've been using Tortex 0.73mm (yellow ones) for years now, 'cos I seem to have settled on them, but everyone who's replied so far seems to use 1mm+ for electric guitars. Weirdly I've always found the green 0.88 too thick!
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Wicked thread!
I've been using Tortex 0.73mm (yellow ones) for years now, 'cos I seem to have settled on them, but everyone who's replied so far seems to use 1mm+ for electric guitars. Weirdly I've always found the green 0.88 too thick!
Back in the 70s, I knew an excellent Rock guitarist in a Thin Lizzy / UFO covers band, who used 0.48 nylon picks, and 7 - 37 gauge ( Rotosound ) strings ! Incredible tone ... :o
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Back in the 70s, I knew an excellent Rock guitarist in a Thin Lizzy / UFO covers band, who used 0.48 nylon picks, and 7 - 37 gauge ( Rotosound ) strings ! Incredible tone ... :o
Crumbs! Maybe they had small, girly hands like me too then!! (although I play on 9's mostly). Interested to try these Dunlop Jazz III's as well, expecially the Eric Johnson ones for a bit of a change.
I've often thought of thinner picks having less attack and therefore imparting a smoother tone. Is this the case?
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What style of playing do you use the 208s for - and how do you find them ? :)
don't really use it, for me it's more one of those interesting picks to have around, even though it's a pointy pick the edges themselves are a bit too rounded for my taste, aka playing metal too fast for my own good
the 208 is quite similar to my ex fav pick the 3mm big stubby the main difference being a pointed edge on the pointy tip of the stubby rather than rounded edge pointy tip of the 208
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Back in the 70s, I knew an excellent Rock guitarist in a Thin Lizzy / UFO covers band, who used 0.48 nylon picks, and 7 - 37 gauge ( Rotosound ) strings ! Incredible tone ... :o
Crumbs! Maybe they had small, girly hands like me too then!! (although I play on 9's mostly). Interested to try these Dunlop Jazz III's as well, expecially the Eric Johnson ones for a bit of a change.
I've often thought of thinner picks having less attack and therefore imparting a smoother tone. Is this the case?
Perhaps surprisingly, the reverse is usually true ( at least for me ). If I use a thin - medium pick, it gives a brighter, thinner, clappy / slappy sound on the strings. If pushing a sweaty old valve amp, the clappy / slappy doesn't really get heard ; but the difference was enough, that when I was last playing in a band, a Fender heavy 'California clear' pick - made me blend somewhat darkly behind the Keyboard player, and if I switched to a medium, I just sliced through the mix. I also noticed when playing through my Tasco Phrase trainer gismo, that thin - medium picks gave clear harmonics and dynamics at low volumes, but the good old heavies, gave me strong fundementals , with little or no harmonic detail.
The Jazz IIIs that Twinfan uses for his " YC/DC" band, bite like hell, for although they are ( relatively ) heavy, they have a somewhat brash presentation - and a biting edge. It is more about pick composition above a certain weight though - as I bought a very thick 'Dugain' carved agate to try, and guess what ? - click, click , click ... :(
However, I gather some smooth players like Matt Otten and George Benson get away with medium gauge, by ( I gather ) simply gripping the pick right near the point. My hero Joe Pass, used to snap his standard shaped celluloid pick in half, and just use the bit that still had the point on.
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What style of playing do you use the 208s for - and how do you find them ? :)
don't really use it, for me it's more one of those interesting picks to have around, even though it's a pointy pick the edges themselves are a bit too rounded for my taste, aka playing metal too fast for my own good
the 208 is quite similar to my ex fav pick the 3mm big stubby the main difference being a pointed edge on the pointy tip of the stubby rather than rounded edge pointy tip of the 208
I gave my 3mm stubbies to a chap I know ( who loved them ) for his own Rock noodlings ; as with my set up , I just heard
" Chink, ker -chink " on the edge of the notes. They seem to be made of a material composed of equal parts Blackpool rock - and cheap double glazing. Not a winning combination for smooth Jazz .
( I seem to have almost as many terms to describe pick noise, as Eskimos have to describe snow . ) :roll:
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it's some kind of material used in bullet proof glass, so I'm told, I prefer the tortex ones, sound better
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I use Delrin picks in the large Rounded-Triangle shape from Steve Clayton - either .73, or .88 gauge. A heavier gauge would benefit my lead playing, but I've always used very light gauge picks for a metal player, plus I still have quite a few of the large bags I bought from Clayton left :)
But the rounded triangle shape is most important to me - I like the slightly "blunt" edge for bettering the strings :twisted: plus the firmer grip I can get on the larger pick...
If I was detuning, I'd no doubt use something heavier - 1.26s seemed good for the 13-62 in drop-B that I tried...
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Christ I thought I had it bad! ;)
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Christ I thought I had it bad! ;)
I should seek professional 'help'. In fact I did ; and they said I was beyond it.... :mrgreen:
Next, we are going to become slavishly addicted to some brand of 'Boutique' pickups - and endless discussion thereof.
Don't even start me on strings .... :lol:
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Have you tried the nylon ones; they are much warmer.
Are the nylon ones to which you refer - the 'Classic' Jazz IIIs , or another new item in the range ?
Cheers ! :)
They are moulded the same as Big Stubbies (and I don't know the Jazz IIIs so well so I can't honestly say I know the answer to that question) but I found that they are much more mellow, with less in the way of pick scr@ping noises.
They can also be more hardy than the translucent ones as they tend to wear away slower (I found that after an hour of playing the old B.S.s would be worn down significantly enough that they may as well be totally different.).
The only real downside I can see is that the B.S. moulding makes it awkward to do a traditional pinch harmonic; given that I do it 'wrong' and play closer to the neck with a finger behind the plectrum to get the pinch that isn't an issue to me.
I like them so much I use them on my acoustic, too (never had a trouble with strumming and dynamics that couldn't be solved by not holding the pick so hard.)..
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I use the heaviest gauge BKP Celluloid pics for electric guitar, and the thinner 1s for acoustics
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Don't even start me on strings .... :lol:
I'm still of the string is string mindset so I'd be curious to hear your thoughts :P
need to order some string soon so I think I'll be ordering a load of new picks to experiment with, never tried a celluloid one, I did once spend a tenner on just picks
I'm always experimenting with speed vs string noise
for me, speed of a pick = (stiffness * thinness) + ((pointedness * pick slippage) * grip on pick)
when I said tortex big stubby in my last post I meant to say nylon, whoops :D
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They can also be more hardy than the translucent ones as they tend to wear away slower (I found that after an hour of playing the old B.S.s would be worn down significantly enough that they may as well be totally different.).
The only real downside I can see is that the B.S. moulding makes it awkward to do a traditional pinch harmonic; given that I do it 'wrong' and play closer to the neck with a finger behind the plectrum to get the pinch that isn't an issue to me.
Roo used to be obsessed with the 3mm tri stubby, would go through 3 of them in a gig, 9 corners!!! I think he likes to dig in a lot
never had a problem with pinching but I do it wrong too, I pinch with up strokes, muting the lower strings with the side of my thumb, perfectly clean unlike my down stroke pinching :D
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I've been using the Pickboy Reefer 1mm for years now after many a trial using Dunlop Tortex etc usually ending up with them flying from my fingers, the raised 'Reefer' design really helps you to keep a hold of them, therefore giving it great attack.... in fact, since using them i haven't dropped one since....the missus was really pleased.
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As JDC mentioned, I used to use 3mm Stubby Triangles (and still have a stock), but I had to switch from these as they weren't hard enough and kept leaving plastic scratchings all over my guitar - and 9 corners in a 45 minute set is a bit silly. Now I use Ultex triangles (why I ever used non triangle picks I do not know, they're 3 times the value! :D), thickest gauge they do (which sadly isn't very thick, not even 2mm I think). They feel a bit weird and I wish they were less flexible, but they don't shred themselves on my strings, so I'm happy.
I can't abide thin picks - I like to get those strings moving!
Roo