Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: andi.j on March 08, 2010, 01:10:58 PM

Title: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: andi.j on March 08, 2010, 01:10:58 PM
to set the scene, i've always placed a fair amount of stock in the name on my guitars, be it ESP, jackson, gibson etc...

so last week i had some time off work and i went down to brighton to see some friends...we meandered down to badlands guitars and i was forced to reconsider my ''names are important'' attitude.

there was a glossy black super-strat in there, mahogany thru' neck, string thru' bridge and splittable humbuckers...the price of which confused me (275 for that much guitar?!)

...after some discussions with the owner over manufacture, factory locations and the general nonsense involved in guitar supply we came to the conclusion that this guitar was likely made in the same factory as korean jackson, LTD and others

after some noodling around on it (proper spinal tap moment with the sustain it produced!) i was genuinely gobsmacked at the playability and after it beat me in a hard fought staring competition i took it home for sub £250.

So, can anyone here explain the phenomenon that is guitar pricing?  so gibson probably sounds better that cort but still, after playing this little gem the high end mark-ups seem like madness!
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: TheIronBeast on March 08, 2010, 01:24:05 PM
I think having the names Gibson, Fender, ESP on the headstock really knocks up the price of their guitars. Most of the time there are guitars made by other manufacturers such as Agile, Tokai etc that with some minor tweaking can sound just as good, if not better than a Gibson or Fender, and for a fraction of the price too.

Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Twinfan on March 08, 2010, 02:14:07 PM
It's all in the wood.  You can get great guitars at any price!
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Antag on March 08, 2010, 03:11:49 PM
It's all in the wood.  You can get great guitars at any price!
Not quite all - a quality setup can make even a total dog play well.

But good wood + good setup usually = nice guitar... :)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on March 08, 2010, 03:22:11 PM
So, can anyone here explain the phenomenon that is guitar pricing?  so gibson probably sounds better that cort but still, after playing this little gem the high end mark-ups seem like madness!

Just to clarify - retailers are not getting USA made Fenders , Gibsons , ESPs etc at the same prices they may pay for a chinese made guitar, and marking up the price by a grand or two (just in case anyone reading this would get confused)

Chinese and other far eastern guitars do offer outstanding value for money these days - especially as they are using CNC machines to cut and probably finish the guitars and they have gotten a good grip on quality control these days
Certainly way better than it was 20+ years ago

Cort guitars are particularly good value as they are the factory that probably make a lot of the low and mid price Epiphone, Washburn, BC Rich etc guitars and also make under their own name tag as well


It is the same old situation of American and European workers needing to be paid more  than Chinese workers (at this pint in time - could all change once China's manufacturing base evolves)
High rents and business rates etc here in the west probably add to the factory/ manufacturing costs whilst the economies of scale that huge factories can get when bulk ordering also reduce the cost of manufacturing....

But congrats on getting a cool guitar


+10,000,000 to what Antag said about a god setup helping
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Twinfan on March 08, 2010, 03:24:09 PM
A dog that plays well isn't great - it's still a dog  ;)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Matt77 on March 08, 2010, 03:26:38 PM
I say make the most of it whilst you can.
Chinese and other far east wages are rocketing at the moment and it's getting harder and harder to recruit as every man and his dog is setting up a factory over that side of the world.
There is some way to go yet.
There are some great bargains to be had.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: gingataff on March 08, 2010, 03:35:13 PM
A dog that plays well isn't great - it's still a dog  ;)

Surely a dog that plays well is no longer a dog? ;)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Philly Q on March 08, 2010, 03:45:36 PM
Nobody else has said it yet, so....

Pics or it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: andi.j on March 08, 2010, 03:52:14 PM
i'll do some pics after work if you want... i've been meaning to pop some up of my nailbombed jackson too.

i was considering changing out the pups on the cort, but the stock motherbuckers actually sound pretty sweet thru' my practice amp :)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: MrBump on March 08, 2010, 03:57:00 PM

+10,000,000 to what Antag said about a god setup helping


Was that a Freudian slip, Jonathan?

;)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: MrBump on March 08, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
Who made the guitar, Andy?
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: andi.j on March 08, 2010, 04:15:13 PM
it's a Korean Cort kx 1 and  i'm told it's not current production so i'd guess a year or so old.
I can post specifics later if anyone needs.

i'm still amazed it plays like it does, guess i found a good one :D [insert smugness!]
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: AndyR on March 08, 2010, 04:20:53 PM
A dog that plays well isn't great - it's still a dog  ;)

Surely a dog that plays well is no longer a dog? ;)

And, of course, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

One chap's "dog" is another chap's "mmmmm... I say..."

:lol:

Good find there andi :D
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on March 08, 2010, 04:29:51 PM

+10,000,000 to what Antag said about a god setup helping


Was that a Freudian slip, Jonathan?

;)

Oops - rumbled!
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: DemosKratia on March 08, 2010, 06:40:37 PM
In my opinion you're always bound to pay for the prestige of having a gibson or a fender or something, however, a real gibsons gonna have way more mojo than say... an identical vintage.

And at the end of the day, mojo is everything :P
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Ian Price on March 08, 2010, 06:54:26 PM
a real gibsons gonna have way more mojo than say... an identical vintage.

I've played many Gibsons that have had no mojo whatsoever. More like nojo to be honest. I still think there is a certain mystique behind the 'big' brand names and that is what helps convince people they are great and have bags of mojo.

I know for a fact that my CS '62 Strat relic has loads of mojo  :wink:
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: DemosKratia on March 08, 2010, 07:31:11 PM
a real gibsons gonna have way more mojo than say... an identical vintage.

I've played many Gibsons that have had no mojo whatsoever. More like nojo to be honest. I still think there is a certain mystique behind the 'big' brand names and that is what helps convince people they are great and have bags of mojo.

I know for a fact that my CS '62 Strat relic has loads of mojo  :wink:

Well, i suppose its all in the eyes of the owner now isnt it?  :)

I just reckon that thinking you have a better guitar can make you play better even if its all just in your head, but that may just be superstition :P
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Ian Price on March 08, 2010, 07:32:57 PM
I just reckon that thinking you have a better guitar can make you play better even if its all just in your head

This definitely applies to me!
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: leerocker on March 08, 2010, 10:51:49 PM
A dog that plays well isn't great - it's still a dog  ;)


amen to that . i have come across a few gibson les pauls that have been a dog!
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: gwEm on March 09, 2010, 02:17:07 AM
The MIK guitars I own are all absolutely great. The Chinese still have a way to improve, but they will get there I'm sure. In particular my Agile is spot on.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: roland_rat on March 09, 2010, 07:31:13 AM
Congrats on the guitar.  The name on the headstock makes no difference if it is well made, a joy to play, and sounds the business then thats all that matters.  It is all the better that it is at a pocket freindly price too :D
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: MisterMuncher on March 09, 2010, 08:48:16 AM
I think, in some cases, Chinese manufacture is rapidly approaching the standard of Japanese OEM gear in the early 80's. It's definitely getting to the stage when low-end instruments will be hitting that JV Squier/Early Ibanez "far too good for the money" point. The main problem will be that this time round the corporates might be quicker to intervene to preserve the marketplace for their higher-end instruments.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: cerpintaxt on March 09, 2010, 01:19:40 PM
I think a lot of the cost-cutting manifests itself in attention to detail. Some rough edges and minor setup tweaks required (actually not much on my Vintage VS6 SG, BTW), but nothing that couldn't be sorted really easily. It's not like we're talking "the best guitar I've ever played" or anything, but you'll get a "pretty good" guitar for budget prices that you can upgrade if you find the right one.

From now on if I was looking to buy a new axe, I'd consider an Agile or MIJ Tokai first before anything else...

It definitely depends on the guitar though. I tried out one of the Ibanez OMR-1 models (they're dirt cheap) and it was just awful. Definitely felt, looked and played like a budget guitar.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: andi.j on March 09, 2010, 05:09:19 PM
looks like you're not going to get images for a day or so as i've not made it back to the flat since the weekend (getting some serious guitar related withdrawal symptoms) - where do you guys host your images?

(oh, and i've just seen a picture of the same model but with a quilted maple amber top... if only i'd known!)
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: Dreichlift on March 10, 2010, 05:29:05 PM
it's a Korean Cort kx 1 and  i'm told it's not current production so i'd guess a year or so old.
I can post specifics later if anyone needs.

i'm still amazed it plays like it does, guess i found a good one :D [insert smugness!]

I looked into these a while back, they're made on the same production line as the low to mid range Ibanez guitars using same wood stocks and often parts. The guitars are great and my only gripes were that the finish was a little rough in places and the Mighty Mite pickups were hideous.
Title: Re: hi, my name's andrew and i used to be a guitar snob!
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 10, 2010, 05:35:03 PM
where do you guys host your images?


You can attach them to the thread.  If you click on the additional options at the bottom  of the post screen, you can attach it there...... and all the people on works computers can see it too  :D