Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: thisisnickpaige on March 16, 2010, 05:57:39 AM
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Tim stated in another post " Pos 4 puts the 2 coils into series, effectively doubling the output-hold onto your horses, silly grin time! " So this got me thinking...The tele normally runs it's pickups parallel, and then Pos 4 , runs them series....which runs the signal through the other ground then to its own ground? lol this whole scenario is rather confusing. All i want to know is if i have a tele four way switch do i get the normal tele bridge, both pickups , neck and then 4 is this new pickups in series or do i lose the middle position and get two new sounds? I would really love to know because if i just get a new louder raunchier rockin sound and keep the middle then i'm ordering a 4-way today! =) Could you please describe the sound of this 4th position and what series actually is? Thanks! =) - Nicholas A. Paige
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A very quick incomplete answer as I have to go-with the 4 way you do get all the normal settings (i.e b,n&b, n plus n&b series). Brief tone description-the series n 7 b is bigger than the parallel thicker.Some have said almost humbucker like. Sorry have to go.
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Wow what a blessing! lol thank you so much for even thinking to answer! =) As i need to go to sleep (it's 2am here in Schenectady,NY) and i have to get up at 8am so you put an ease to my head and i can rest easy =) I will certainly be ordering that switch now! Now all thats to be decided is will it be the Yardbird or Blackguard flat 50 for my bridge 0=) Only time time will tell =) lol thanks man! God bless! - Nicholas A. Paige
PS any more willing to comment on this are welcome! the 4-way switch idea (if there are variations or different ideas) or on the yardbird v. blackguard, dont care =)
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Yes, with the 4-way tele mod you retain your current standard 3 tele positions (neck, neck in parallel with bridge, bridge), you just add one more combo: neck in series with bridge.
This little trick gives you some extra-boost and a very nice virtual humbucker sound in this position.
When you put two pickups in parallel, as in the most middle positions of pickup' selectors, the output drops a little bit under the output level of one of the two pickups involved.
To put both pickups in series, restores that level drop (even resulting louder than one of the single pickups involved), making it very useful for soloing or when an extra oomph or boost is requiered.
Being a virtual humbucker, same effects of humbuckers take place: some frequencies are boosted while others are cancelled so, the resulting sound will be fatter, warmer and less defined but always musical.
If both pickups have reverse magnetic polarity and reverse winding then, the benefite of hum cancelling is also there.
I just finished one wiring mod in my strato that works in two modes. First mode retains the stock 5 positions while the alternate mode gives me:
1. Neck in parallel with Bridge (Tele middle position)
2. Neck in series with middle (dark virtual humbucker)
3. The 3 pickups in parallel (very round and warm sound)
4. Middle in series with Bridge (Bright virtual humbucker)
5. Neck in series with Bridge (as per 4-way tele mod)
I'm gonna check how it sounds with a new loaded set of Mother's Milk, just this Friday and If I am satisfied with the mod (some doubts about out-of-phase positions), I am planning to hung a video to demonstrate the combos (but this last will take a while)
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If you're ordering Tele pickups, tell them you're going to be using a 4-way switch because the neck pickup will need a separate ground wire for the metal cover (assuming you want a cover!)
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If you're ordering Tele pickups, tell them you're going to be using a 4-way switch because the neck pickup will need a separate ground wire for the metal cover (assuming you want a cover!)
Good point!
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Hi
Others already answered, but well... I installed my BGF50s with the 4-switch (and yes BTW, mention this to Tim when ordering your pups), and couldn't be happier - to be true, I just wonder why it's not the standard wiring scheme on all Teles. Positions 2, 3 and 4 are the usual Tele stuff (n, n+b parallel, b), and position 1 is n+b series. It indeed has kind of a 'bucker character - louder, fatter, darker - but still remain true to that good ole Tele grind. Makes your Tele even more versatile, giving it enough power and fatness to do hard-rock heavy riffing. So to make a long story short: if you swap your Tele pups, go for the 4-way switch, at worst you won't loose anything and chances are you'll love this additional option.
My 2 cents.
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The fact that it leaves all the original sounds in is the great thing about this mod! As others have said, getting the neck pickup RWRP (reverse-wound, reverse-polarity) will give you hum-cancelling in positions 2&4 at no cost to any other part of the circuit, and a separate ground wire for the cover will be necessary. Like a telecaster plus!
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I'm gonna check how it sounds with a new loaded set of Mother's Milk, just this Friday and If I am satisfied with the mod (some doubts about out-of-phase positions), I am planning to hung a video to demonstrate the combos (but this last will take a while)
Always nice to get a fresh set of pickups in my opinion =) Yeah the out of phase positions can be weird. lol My friend Trev loves to mod his guitar with all sorts of push pulls,switches,wiring changes, out of phase and all that. lol for me less is more because less is really alot once you realize how much the " less " really is! lol I aint tryin to get philosophical on y'all or nothin, but its true. =) Thanks for the in-depth explanation that was well put.
Philly Q: I got a humbucker already for it, thats an alnico II, for some reason i love the mushy sound lol but would i still need one from there? How does that work? Anybody else know?
Big B: I was thinking that exactly, already ordered it with a BG Flat50 bridge. Any ideas on the neck humbucker bit? I suspect the 4th position is gunna rule too! lol So i am more then excited, just didnt want to loose the middle for this new sound i would use less, ya know?
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Philly Q: I got a humbucker already for it, thats an alnico II, for some reason i love the mushy sound lol but would i still need one from there? How does that work? Anybody else know?
The bare wire from the humbucker (if you have 4-conductor wire) is the cover ground. If you don't, you will need to get your pickup refitted with a new cable (or get a new one for a new flavour! :))
I don't have much experience with a humbucker and singlecoil in series but I imagine it would be mushy indeed. Perhaps a little too much power.
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Just a note to bear in mind that the 4-way switches you can buy aren't the highest quality. I bought a Fender original and it wasn't the greatest to be honest. Watch your soldering - uset he minimum amount of solder and don't over heat the tags :)
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Always nice to get a fresh set of pickups in my opinion =) Yeah the out of phase positions can be weird. lol My friend Trev loves to mod his guitar with all sorts of push pulls,switches,wiring changes, out of phase and all that. lol for me less is more because less is really alot once you realize how much the " less " really is!
Truth is that when playing with the band, I almost always end up just using the bridge pup and playing a lot with vol and tone pots - but this probably has to do with us being a LOUD 2-guitars band :wink:
Still, I'm glad to have this "big up" option when I need a really fattier, heavier tone than what I can get out of the bridge alone.
Big B: I was thinking that exactly, already ordered it with a BG Flat50 bridge. Any ideas on the neck humbucker bit? I suspect the 4th position is gunna rule too!
Well, I kinda forgot you were going a 'bucker in the neck - didn't you changed your mind about it BTW ??? But anyway... I recently wondered what one would get from 2 'buckers serials, so I'm probably not the one to tell you 1SC + 1HB serials would be total overkill - as it probably is, but well, total overkill can sometimes be fine too :mrgreen:
But still - you may want to consider using only half of the bucker here - at least if your pup has the required 4 conductors. That's probably something I'd try as far as I'm concerned, if only to find out which option I personally prefer.
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I'm not sure I'd bother with a 4-way if you've got a neck humbucker, I suspect the both-in-series 4th position will just be a big fat mush.
On the other hand, it's only the cost of a switch to experiment.
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I don't have much experience with a humbucker and singlecoil in series but I imagine it would be mushy indeed. Perhaps a little too much power.
Not really. This kind of combos sound way better than two humbuckers in series.
By example, bridge humbucker with splitted neck is a really nice sounding combo, with the balls of the serial combination, the edge of the bridge humbucker and the clean voice of the neck.
It's one of my prefered ones.
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I'm not sure I'd bother with a 4-way if you've got a neck humbucker, I suspect the both-in-series 4th position will just be a big fat mush.
On the other hand, it's only the cost of a switch to experiment.
It depends a lot on the own nature of each pickup and what frequencies are boosted or dimmed when combined together.
As someone else suggested, the neck can be splitted just for serial combination, what always sounds good to me.
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Always nice to get a fresh set of pickups in my opinion =) Yeah the out of phase positions can be weird. lol My friend Trev loves to mod his guitar with all sorts of push pulls,switches,wiring changes, out of phase and all that. lol for me less is more because less is really alot once you realize how much the " less " really is! lol I aint tryin to get philosophical on y'all or nothin, but its true. =) Thanks for the in-depth explanation that was well put.
Out of Phase positions can be weird and also very usefull.
Neck humbucker out-of-phase and you get that Peter Green's tone.
Brigde single-coil out-of-phase in series with other pickup, under high distortion and you are in Brian May's territory.
Usually, OOP works better in series and under distortion (and I love it!).
But, as always, each pickup combination enhances some frequencies while dimming others so, only experimenting you can determine if the sound is good or not for that axe and pair of pickups.
My philosofy is a little different I want "the most of the useful combos with the minimun ergonomic issues and an easy mental map to obtain each one".
So, I started with the weirdest wiring (about 90 combos with 3 humbuckers), just to understand how each combination affects the sound.
Then, I implemented some kind of "advanced JP wiring mod", with 22 combos, using two humbuckers 2T and 2V pull/pushes, in an LP-like clone. I've got The Mule at neck, and Riff Raff at bridge. Some day, I will post some demo video. 'm so lazzy for that.
My last design is 10 combos in an strato, 1 volume , 1 no-load tone and 1 toggle switch. Simpler, yes. That's the one that will test this Friday, with real amp (I did it with Amplitube 3).
I'm everytime reducing the number of combos, just selecting the most useful with minimum tweaking but, I still want something else than stock ones.
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Yeah im doing them both in full series, lol im a rebel what can i saw? lol but seriously though, its an open coil, do i still need to ground it if there is only the plastic bobbins? I'm guessing not, right?
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Yeah im doing them both in full series, lol im a rebel what can i saw? lol but seriously though, its an open coil, do i still need to ground it if there is only the plastic bobbins? I'm guessing not, right?
When swapping the start and finish conductor there is always a potential risk of include unwanted noises but, this a risk. Everything can sound flawless.
There is nothing in a guitar electronics that can harm your guitar or amp so... TRY IT!
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Yeah im doing them both in full series, lol im a rebel what can i saw? lol but seriously though, its an open coil, do i still need to ground it if there is only the plastic bobbins? I'm guessing not, right?
Is it a 4-conductor or 2-conductor pickup?
If it's 4-conductor, the bare wire in the 4-conductor cable is always grounding the pickup's metal baseplate, so no problem.
If it's 2-conductor, the braided shield is grounding the end of the pickup's coil and the baseplate. So when the pickups are in series, that braid becomes the "hot", so you'll get noise when you touch the metal parts of the pickup. Since it's uncovered, you might get away with it, but it might squeal/hum if you touch the polepieces or mounting screws.
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Cool, yes Philly Q it is a 4 conductor and cool =) then just swap it all and we're good. My local guitar tech is gunna do it so no worries =) i'm excited =) Cant wait...too bad USPS takes 1.5 - 2 weeks to arrive and Tim only takes maybe a day to turn around a pickup ... lol c'est la vie, no? =)
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I'm not sure I'd bother with a 4-way if you've got a neck humbucker, I suspect the both-in-series 4th position will just be a big fat mush.
On the other hand, it's only the cost of a switch to experiment.
yes, i winder that too. the series position is a very usable tone, but I dont find myself using it that often in reality
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NAH GUYS! I just picked up my guitar today with it and BOY HOWDY! it sounds stinkin awesome! =) I yusta have a jazzmaster and loved and miss it and this 4th position almost sounds like a jazzmaster, this thumping twang =) it's brilliant! thank you to all who helped me even know about this let alone do it! =) now just for my bridge pickups.... 0=) Sorry BGF50's the Piledriver is takin over from here 0=)
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I posted a (brief) YouTube clip of me running through all 4 positions on my Bitsa Blackguard Flat 50 Tele:
http://www.youtube.com/user/markdemanbey?feature=mhw4#p/a/u/0/N-y44ZeUknQ (http://www.youtube.com/user/markdemanbey?feature=mhw4#p/a/u/0/N-y44ZeUknQ)
Not great, but might help.
Personally, I LOVE the switching option.
Mark.
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Just a note to bear in mind that the 4-way switches you can buy aren't the highest quality. I bought a Fender original and it wasn't the greatest to be honest. Watch your soldering - uset he minimum amount of solder and don't over heat the tags :)
i agree with dave here. they aren't the best quality - bearable though
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Just a note to bear in mind that the 4-way switches you can buy aren't the highest quality. I bought a Fender original and it wasn't the greatest to be honest. Watch your soldering - uset he minimum amount of solder and don't over heat the tags :)
Where do you get them? I've only ever used proper CRL or Switchcraft 4-ways the same type that a standard (USA) guitar has (3 or 5-way, Tele / Strat etc).
Did you maybe buy a Japanese one? With plastic casing?