Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Philly Q on April 11, 2010, 01:42:32 PM

Title: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 11, 2010, 01:42:32 PM
Although I have far too many guitars, one thing that's been conspicuously absent is a maple-topped, mahogany set neck.  I've had a few LPs over the years, but can never get on with the weight and the sheer bulk of that big neck joint and thick, uncontoured body.

So I started looking at things like Aria PEs, PRS SE Singlecuts... and then I thought of the Tokai Love Rock II.  Supposed to be an original Tokai design, but it looks very similar to the Martyn Booth/Yamaha MSG shape which I've always liked.

The Tokai website lists them at £999 RRP but I had a look on eBay and around the net and found a few a bit cheaper than that, so to cut a long story short I bought one.

Opened the box (no case - why???  Especially since it's a non standard shape).... holy shite, this thing is stunning.  Flame maple top (veneer, but WTH), body thinner than an LP with a nice little belly cut, lovely chunky neck, flawless finish (Japanese Tokais are really, really good).  Push-pull coil-splits in both pots.  Fantastic top-fret access thanks to the double cutaway.

Then I picked it up.  Oops.  The thing weighs a ton.  I had emailed to ask if it was thinner and lighter than an LP, and they replied "yes it has a thinner body".  I really should've noticed they didn't mention the weight.  :? :(

To be fair, it hangs pretty nicely on a strap, I'm used to neck-heavy SGs and things so to have a guitar just "hang there" seems a bit of a novelty.

But I can't keep it.  So, hello and goodbye.  Impulse-buying is a dangerous thing.  :lol:

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/IMGP3022.jpg)
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: LazyNinja on April 11, 2010, 01:53:57 PM
Nice, shame about the weight. Been tempted by one of those myself a few times. Can you not return it instead of selling it on here?
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: 38thBeatle on April 11, 2010, 01:55:10 PM
Great looking guitar Philly. A question though. Is the weight really an issue-I mean that if you don't gig, you  could play it sitting down. Seems a shame to get rid if you like it so much. Just saying.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Ian Price on April 11, 2010, 02:01:49 PM
Great looking guitar Philly. I you do sell it I hope you don't lose out too much!
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 11, 2010, 02:13:45 PM
I've actually had it a couple of weeks already (got it before Easter, but then I was away for a few days), so it's outside the eBay return policy.

Steve, fair point but it's actually most uncomfortable sitting down, the body feels like it wants to dive at the floor!  :lol:

Seriously, you're right, logically I could keep it but (illogically  :roll: ) it's almost going against my "principles" - the whole reason I've never bought an old Ibanez Artist or Yamaha SG2000 is the weight issue.  I don't gig but some little part of my brain still fantasises I might one day.....

This incident has woken me up a bit and made me realise how stupid I am to keep buying this stuff.  I'm not going all sackcloth-and-ashes, nothing wrong with a bit of harmless acquisitiveness (if you can afford it) but I have so many guitars I never even touch. :roll:  I'm going to clear a few out (we're probably not talking Twinfan-like "single figures", though!  :P ) then - maybe - use the proceeds to shop around a bit and buy one more really nice guitar.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on April 11, 2010, 02:30:17 PM
I'm going to clear a few out (we're probably not talking Twinfan-like "single figures", though!  :P ) then - maybe - use the proceeds to shop around a bit and buy one more really nice guitar.

Like a nice lightweight Emerald Lion ??
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 11, 2010, 02:43:07 PM
I'm going to clear a few out (we're probably not talking Twinfan-like "single figures", though!  :P ) then - maybe - use the proceeds to shop around a bit and buy one more really nice guitar.

Like a nice lightweight Emerald Lion ??

Ah, ever the salesman!  :lol:  But yeah, maybe.  We'll see.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: dave_mc on April 11, 2010, 02:56:24 PM
Then I picked it up.  Oops.  The thing weighs a ton.  I had emailed to ask if it was thinner and lighter than an LP, and they replied "yes it has a thinner body".  I really should've noticed they didn't mention the weight.  :? :(

ah, that sucks. It looks really nice, too. :(
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: sgmypod on April 11, 2010, 09:50:12 PM
very pretty nice price but a bit rich for me at mo
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Plexi Ken on April 11, 2010, 10:57:21 PM
Nice looking guitar, sorry it didn't work out. Hopefully it will find a loving home. Always good to here about Tokai's good built quality. My Tokai 335 GAS hasn't been reduced  :?
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Ian Price on April 11, 2010, 11:02:53 PM
My Tokai 335 GAS hasn't been reduced  :?

I know how that feels! I've had 335 GAS ever since I sold my 335  :x
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 11, 2010, 11:21:02 PM
Always good to here about Tokai's good built quality.

They really are very good indeed, certainly the Japanese ones.  I've owned five now (I think), at various price points, and it's hard to find much wrong with them (....except the weight of this one  :lol: ).  
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Afghan Dave on April 12, 2010, 01:14:39 AM
Seriously Philly... Why don't you just order a custom to your EXACT spec and be really happy?

It seems as if you have some kind of self destructive GAS auto-pilot that says "it's my lot in life to search & spend"  :?
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Afghan Dave on April 12, 2010, 01:36:52 AM
[See Seconds Out Thread]

If you sell your gear for the right price will you "throw in the towel"?  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 08:17:09 AM
Seriously Philly... Why don't you just order a custom to your EXACT spec and be really happy?

It seems as if you have some kind of self destructive GAS auto-pilot that says "it's my lot in life to search & spend"  :?

It's not really self destructive, because I can afford it.  The only real problem is floor space.....  :(

As for the custom........ you're right, but there's always that nagging doubt of "what if it doesn't turn out the way I hoped".....  :?



If you sell your gear for the right price will you "throw in the towel"?  :lol: :lol:

No frickin' way, it's taken me a long time to build up that towel collection. 

In fact I'm getting TAS now just thinking about it.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Roobubba on April 12, 2010, 08:50:15 AM
Seriously Philly... Why don't you just order a custom to your EXACT spec and be really happy?

It seems as if you have some kind of self destructive GAS auto-pilot that says "it's my lot in life to search & spend"  :?

It's not really self destructive, because I can afford it.  The only real problem is floor space.....  :(

As for the custom........ you're right, but there's always that nagging doubt of "what if it doesn't turn out the way I hoped".....  :?



If you sell your gear for the right price will you "throw in the towel"?  :lol: :lol:

No frickin' way, it's taken me a long time to build up that towel collection. 

In fact I'm getting TAS now just thinking about it.

You really should go custom.  If it doesn't work out exactly like you'd hoped, you sell it like all the other guitars that didn't turn out quite how you'd hoped. You said it yourself, you can afford it...

Roo
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 09:29:41 AM
You really should go custom.  If it doesn't work out exactly like you'd hoped, you sell it like all the other guitars that didn't turn out quite how you'd hoped. You said it yourself, you can afford it...

Oops, I've made a rope to hang myself!  :lol:

Yeah, I can afford it..... up to a point, but I usually buy cheap(ish) guitars, not £2,000 customs which instantly lose half their value!  But not ruling it out, far from it.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Roobubba on April 12, 2010, 10:05:22 AM
You really should go custom.  If it doesn't work out exactly like you'd hoped, you sell it like all the other guitars that didn't turn out quite how you'd hoped. You said it yourself, you can afford it...

Oops, I've made a rope to hang myself!  :lol:

Yeah, I can afford it..... up to a point, but I usually buy cheap(ish) guitars, not £2,000 customs which instantly lose half their value!  But not ruling it out, far from it.

I thought you might say this, but bear in mind that the resale value of a custom is largely related to its degree of 'difference form the norm'. My baritone for example - I'd have a tough job selling that, as it's unique, and rather different from the vast majority of guitars. What you're after, though, is something which is essentially standard, but lighter! I don't reckon you'd have trouble shifting it if you decided to, but think of the opportunity if it turns out to be perfect! :)

Besides, they may not cost quite as much as you imagine...
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: MrBump on April 12, 2010, 10:28:38 AM
I sense a "PQ Goes Custom" thread in the offing...

Can we all vote on it?
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: gingataff on April 12, 2010, 10:45:52 AM
I sense a "PQ Goes Custom" thread in the offing...

Can we all vote on it?

I vote painted headstock Strat with a Floyd Rose
 PDT_008
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 11:14:03 AM
I sense a "PQ Goes Custom" thread in the offing...

Can we all vote on it?

I vote painted headstock Strat with a Floyd Rose
 PDT_008

I like the painted headstock bit, anyway....  :|

 :P

Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Twinfan on April 12, 2010, 11:38:01 AM
Custom may be a good option for you Phil, IF you know what you want and/or have specific requirements.

I still couldn't spec something from scratch for myself - too many choices....
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 11:47:35 AM
Actually I do have a pretty clear idea what I'd go for, subject to a few fine details.

I might feel completely differently in six months or a year though.  :lol:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Roobubba on April 12, 2010, 12:29:16 PM
Doooo Eeeeet!

:)

/Roo turns the dial to GAS MARK 11

Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Johnny Mac on April 12, 2010, 12:53:41 PM
Do it Philly!  :D I didn't give the second hand value of my custom a second thought as I'm keeping it as it was made to be played. You can always change pups in them if you want a new sound.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
I'm starting to feel the pressure, especially now Roo has turned the Gas up.  :lol:

Somebody buy my Tokai and PRS!
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on April 12, 2010, 01:07:56 PM
To be fair custom built axes aren't the way for everyone
They are great for someone who knows what they want but constantly isnt finding it
They are great for someone that wants a combination of features that isn't usually available from a single manufacturer
They are great for someone who wants a higher build quality and attention to detail than some "off the shelf" companies offer (providing the builder makes to that high level)

Actually I do have a pretty clear idea what I'd go for, subject to a few fine details.
I might feel completely differently in six months or a year though.  :lol:

Which may be why a custom may not work for you


Yeah, I can afford it..... up to a point, but I usually buy cheap(ish) guitars, not £2,000 customs which instantly lose half their value!

I hear what you are saying - like buying a brand new car and being told it loses 50% of it's value as soon as it's driven off the garage forecourt.

Personally I don't think that a well specced custom should be like that
I prefer to look at custom amps like Trainwrecks and Dumbles where their scarcity and fantastic tones makes them go up in value.

Obviously if some one specs a very unusual guitar it may be quite hard to sell on but if it is just a combination of a classic design but kitted out with the best bits and would appeal to many players then it shouldn't have limited appeal.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 01:43:19 PM
All fair points, Jon. 

To be honest, the instant-depreciation aspect doesn't bother me that much..... if I bought something, I wouldn't be expecting to sell it, and I never buy anything with a view to resale value anyway (hence the losses I've suffered on just about every guitar I've ever sold!  :roll:  :lol: ).  But it is potentially an issue, at least compared with a Gibson/PRS/whatever.  On the other hand, as you say, if it's a "classic design but kitted out with the best bits" then you really only need to find one other person who wants it!

I still have that reservation we've discussed before, and Twinfan has said similar, that you can pick up two guitars off the shelf and one has that "magic" (not necessarily the same "magic" for everyone!).  Whereas you can spec a custom to be absolutely perfect - on paper - but it may not turn out to be what you hoped (quite possibly because you didn't really know what you wanted in the first place!)
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Roobubba on April 12, 2010, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
(quite possibly because you didn't really know what you wanted in the first place!)

Quote from: Philly Q
Actually I do have a pretty clear idea what I'd go for, subject to a few fine details.

:D
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
(quite possibly because you didn't really know what you wanted in the first place!)

Quote from: Philly Q
Actually I do have a pretty clear idea what I'd go for, subject to a few fine details.

:D

I know what I want in terms of looks, weight, pickups etc (....not necessarily body wood).  But it might turn out to sound rubbish!  :lol:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: sgmypod on April 12, 2010, 04:25:19 PM
Even if does lose half the value, main point of custom build is to your perfect specs..so in theory will never sell anyways
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: HTH AMPS on April 12, 2010, 05:52:30 PM
I'm going to clear a few out (we're probably not talking Twinfan-like "single figures", though!  :P ) then - maybe - use the proceeds to shop around a bit and buy one more really nice guitar.

Like a nice lightweight Emerald Lion ??

Ah, ever the salesman!  :lol:  But yeah, maybe.  We'll see.

you'd need a nice new amp to go with that too  :lol:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: sgmypod on April 12, 2010, 05:56:54 PM
Evil HTH but I like it..no point having a custom without a nice new amp.....
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Andrew W on April 12, 2010, 06:11:48 PM

you'd need a nice new amp to go with that too  :lol:

And some pedals too I'd have thought.  I think I know someone who does those as well as amps... Heavier than something as I recall. :)
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 06:15:32 PM
 :lol:  Nah, amps and pedals have never had the same GAS-appeal for me as guitars.

Remember, I'm a guitar enthusiast, not a proper guitar player.   :wink:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Afghan Dave on April 12, 2010, 06:43:55 PM
But it might turn out to sound rubbish!  :lol:

That's kind what the luthier is there for... :roll:

I don't want to flog a dead horse or sound confrontational but I'm gonna do both now because I've known you (virtually) for years now...

If you re-read this thread you would be hard pushed to find a single strong counter argument to your going custom.

sorry... there is a weak one... Pessimism.

If you got exactly what you wanted in every way with every detail and it didn't initially sound like holy wood taken from the cross of Jesus and fashioned into a guitar by the 16th century violin makers of Cremona...

It might just require a while to settle!!!
  :? :lol:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 12, 2010, 06:56:31 PM
If you re-read this thread you would be hard pushed to find a single strong counter argument to your going custom.

sorry... there is a weak one... Pessimism.

Pessimism is a weak argument???  Pessimism is my tenet of faith.  :?
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Roobubba on April 12, 2010, 07:00:33 PM
If you re-read this thread you would be hard pushed to find a single strong counter argument to your going custom.

sorry... there is a weak one... Pessimism.

Pessimism is a weak argument???  Pessimism is my tenet of faith.  :?

Hence the force is weak with this one.

The prosecution rests, m'lud
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Afghan Dave on April 12, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
The logic of this thread is as frustrating as...

(http://northoftheriver.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/hachmole.jpg)

http://www.addictinggames.com/whackamole.html
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Johnny Mac on April 12, 2010, 07:13:40 PM
I've tried a few custom builds from various builders and i've never disliked any of them to be honest.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: FernandoDuarte on April 13, 2010, 12:03:01 AM
Getting late, but I don't think you'll have a bad sounding guitar, specially if you to with Feline, Wez, Bob: Guys that have the real love to the instruments and will search good woods to use on it...
If you were in Brazil, I'd say that going custom perhaps wouldn't be the best way, I know some luthiers here that pay attention only to the price of the wood, not search something A+++... Some of it because of that brazilians are really cheap, usually... But I've seen some guys using Hard Maple on guitar tops just because it was easier to get than Soft Maple and many, many more things even worse...
I feel a completely different way of think on UK's luthiers... They really wear the "no compromise" belief...

I think you know you have all the plan on your head but you're affraid of pull the trigger... But I do really think you'd do good going custom... You would get a light guitar, with the neck profile that you want with all your options... Can't go really wrong on it, you're not a 18years old guy changing ALL the likes and dislikes soon ;)

Sorry for the wordy post
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 13, 2010, 12:16:53 AM
Can't go really wrong on it, you're not a 18years old guy changing ALL the likes and dislikes soon ;)

You're absolutely right there, Fernando!  :lol:

(and no need to apologise for the wordy post!!)
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: hunter on April 13, 2010, 07:33:02 AM

If you want that same guitar but just miles better, you can just invest a few 100 pounds more and get this (from guitars4you):

(http://www.guitars4you.co.uk/guitars/2770.jpg)

(http://www.guitars4you.co.uk/guitars/2770a.jpg)

It doesn't look like it had the thin type neck like on some older Hamers, this looks quite substantial to me.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Twinfan on April 13, 2010, 08:28:00 AM
Nice looking fiddle, that Hamer.....
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 13, 2010, 09:51:05 AM
That Hamer certainly looks nice, but having owned several in the past I never quite got on with them - never liked the neck shapes, although maybe they're different now.

That same shop has some very nice PRS guitars too....
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: TheIronBeast on April 14, 2010, 11:37:01 AM
I think you should order yourself a lightweight Feline Lion Cub ;)

I love my Lion Cub, the quality is superb. Far superior to what you would get with a Gibson.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Ian Price on April 14, 2010, 11:53:56 AM
That same shop has some very nice PRS guitars too....

And some nice Duesenberg's. And some nice Fenders. A lot of nice everything basically.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: AndyR on April 14, 2010, 12:52:11 PM
Oh my! How this thread has developed...

I read the opening post and thought "shame" and then thought nothing more of it...

Then I saw it was up to 4 pages... methinks there must be something afoot in here...

So I've just read the whole shebang in one go...

I think you've going to "have to" go custom Philly, and I think it's a reasonably safe bet for you...

By "have to", I don't mean you'll have to in order to get the guitar you want - you'd have to get loads of customs in that case :lol:. I mean "have to" because I suspect that, a little like me, you do actually want a custom guitar, one that was built for you, in amongst the others.

You don't want/need it to eclipse or replace all other guitars in your armoury, but you definitely don't want to go to that trouble and then find that it's one of the ones you don't use...

I'm not a betting man, but I think the odds are fairly favourable that you would not end up with a pretty thing that sat in the corner....

Your actual danger is that you'd want another one, of a different type, later :lol:. But hey! So what :D
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 14, 2010, 12:55:22 PM
Oh my! How this thread has developed...

It's what we do, isn't it?!  :lol:

I am considering my options.  But first of all, I still need to sell this stuff.  :wink:
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: gingataff on April 14, 2010, 01:13:29 PM
Some people are happy having 'The One', but others find the thrill of the chase most most exciting part.

I'm worried that if Phil gets a custom and it meets all his criteria he will have lost his raison d'être.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: Philly Q on April 14, 2010, 01:24:43 PM
Some people are happy having 'The One', but others find the thrill of the chase most most exciting part.

I'm worried that if Phil gets a custom and it meets all his criteria he will have lost his raison d'être.

 :lol: :lol:

Then I'd shrivel up like Pumpkinhead (one for the Stan Winston fans).

But no worries, this would only be for one set of criteria - something Les Paul-ish but not fat and heavy.  I'd still have SGs, Teles and things to worry about.
Title: Re: NGD: Hello and Goodbye!
Post by: sgmypod on April 14, 2010, 02:44:25 PM
A nice Duesenberg starplayer tv