Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Lew on May 06, 2010, 12:55:43 PM
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GOODLORD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm
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Sounding more and more like NSDAP strategies in Germany in the early-mid 30s.
This one's quite, er, "amusing":
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Sky-Sources-UKIPs-Nigel-Farage-In-Plane-Crash/Article/201005115626341?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15626341_Sky_Sources%3A_UKIPs_Nigel_Farage_In_Plane_Crash (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Sky-Sources-UKIPs-Nigel-Farage-In-Plane-Crash/Article/201005115626341?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15626341_Sky_Sources%3A_UKIPs_Nigel_Farage_In_Plane_Crash)
"It is thought the small plane got into difficulty after getting tangled in a Vote UKIP banner it had been towing."
One of the guys I work with lives in that constituency and was most amused by it this morning (the plane in question has been rather noisy and annoying to residents in the area)...
His comment earlier was "He better be bluddy ok though - he's the b@stard I want to vote for..."
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Buckingham is my area too, its a bit of a weird one at the moment.
Good to hear he is okay though
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His comment earlier was "He better be bluddy ok though - he's the b@stard I want to vote for..."
He wanted to vote for Farage? Has he ever seen the silly tw@t on Question Time?
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^ you might need to narrow that down a bit... quite a few silly tw@ts on qt
i think they want to bring back corporal punishment in schools. because it worked so well for them o_O
and am i the only one who sees the irony in someone with a fairly blatant french surname (i assume it's french) being sceptical of the eu?
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and am i the only one who sees the irony in someone with a fairly blatant french surname (i assume it's french) being sceptical of the eu?
Don't see how that's remotely ironic, unless you subscribe to the rather juvenile/facile idea that not wanting Britain to be part of the EU means you hate foreigners... :)
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i didn't mean it like that, i meant more that france is a fairly enthusiastic member of the EU.
EDIT: i would agree that there are some serious problems with the eu, but i don't think that eejits like farage are the answer either. hmmm, would i rather be dictated to by the eu or by some toff? :lol:
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GOODLORD indeed. That was better than Prescott and Egg Man.
Foolish as well, he may have well lost some potential voters there :?
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GOODLORD indeed. That was better than Prescott and Egg Man.
Foolish as well, he may have well lost some potential voters there :?
A foolish BNP candidate, now there's a shocker.
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not sure I would have reacted any differently if I was spat at in the face
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Asians? How PC.
I think they're called differently on the streets and in pubs.
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So, discuss:
1. Will this increase or decrease support for the BNP tonight across the whole demographic?
2. Why do so few people connect properly with the punches they throw in street fights? Must try harder!
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His comment earlier was "He better be bluddy ok though - he's the b@stard I want to vote for..."
He wanted to vote for Farage? Has he ever seen the silly tw@t on Question Time?
I'm not sure whether he's serious. But he does have some issues over his constituency - he has "no-one to vote for" apparently. It's the Speaker's constituency, so apparently if the Speaker gets in, it's not counted in the "first-past-the-post" calculation on who forms a government... and traditionally, apparently, the other majors don't field a candidate against the speaker... I'm not sure if this is the case today... (my colleague speak with fork tongue, I feel)
Anyway, his house wasn't in this constituency last time, apparently the Labour swine have moved the boundaries to suite their needs (my god!!! would a political party ever do that??!!), so he's somewhat disgruntled over not having a voice...
He sounds like a big PR fan to me... (eg he's sent this http://www.voterpower.org.uk/ (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/) round at work...) but on the other hand he is strongly opposed to most of the LibDems other policies... poor chap... so informed... yet so confused... :lol:
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To be honest I agree with Lew if someone spat at me like that I would probably clock him one - and its not like people who vote BNP are going to be in any way appalled by a BNP candidate duffing up an Asian teenager is it?
One thing I did notice is that in days of old a BNP candidate would have about 50 skinheads in the background itching for a fight - so maybe their apparent move to the 'left' has lost some them some of their core supporters.
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I don't think skinheads are as plentiful as the old says of the BNP.
I met Gavin Watson once who took a lot of photos of skinheads around that era, that lead to the Shane Meadows movies with skinhead content (or in part led to that via providing some inspiration). I think there used to be a British Nazi Party which was less of a political group but more a post-National Front splinter organization that did things such as openly glorify hitler and claim the BNP only did such things behind closed doors, making them soft. Combat 18 (If my understanding is correct) formed the group of people regularly called on to act as bodyguards for BNP members.
I also think the BNP is aware that having gangs of 'skinheads' or whatever following them around does them no good on the campaign trail. They need to be image aware and package their ideas and policies a bit more carefully than going round saying 'ain't no black in the union jack'.
I don't think the fight looses the BNP its support or goes any way to unite people for it. skinhead weren't all nazi's and nowadays its more of a fashion statement than a 'youth movement'. Maybe you'd be more likely to see 50 guys dressed in 3 panel caps, Aquascutum jackets, Hacket Shirts, Levi's and Adidas Gazelle's.
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His comment earlier was "He better be bluddy ok though - he's the b@stard I want to vote for..."
He wanted to vote for Farage? Has he ever seen the silly tw@t on Question Time?
I'm not sure whether he's serious. But he does have some issues over his constituency - he has "no-one to vote for" apparently. It's the Speaker's constituency, so apparently if the Speaker gets in, it's not counted in the "first-past-the-post" calculation on who forms a government... and traditionally, apparently, the other majors don't field a candidate against the speaker... I'm not sure if this is the case today... (my colleague speak with fork tongue, I feel)
Anyway, his house wasn't in this constituency last time, apparently the Labour swine have moved the boundaries to suite their needs (my god!!! would a political party ever do that??!!), so he's somewhat disgruntled over not having a voice...
He sounds like a big PR fan to me... (eg he's sent this http://www.voterpower.org.uk/ (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/) round at work...) but on the other hand he is strongly opposed to most of the LibDems other policies... poor chap... so informed... yet so confused... :lol:
Farage (UKIP), Bercow(spkr), and Stevens (independant) are the main contenders. So he is right, none of the main 3 are available. It is a bit of a bugger, but it means that the electorate have got a free mind to vote for who they want Vs having to vote tactically to try to gain a strong leading party in parliament
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John Bercow is a disgusting replacement for the last disgusting speaker and I hope to God he loses to Nigel Farage.
It's a sad Parliament tradition that if you fall within the speakers constituency your mandate is almost ruined.
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"Good Doggie!" :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8665560.stm
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3 panel caps, Aquascutum jackets, Hacket Shirts, Levi's and Adidas Gazelle's.
You mean that I dress like a fascist? Damn, I'm going to have to get an image change - I think I might get some DMs, a pair of bleach stained blue jeans held up by red braces, a Fred Perry shirt and a green bomber jacket.
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The BNP guy, if I heard correctly, started the ball rolling with his insulting remark about the men being robbers but the spitting did provoke the guy and not surprisingly he reacted.People didn't condemn Mr Prescott for his understandable reaction when attacked. I can't stand the BNP myself but they do have a right to their views.
As for Mr Farage.He had a close call there. To answer the point about his participation in the constituency, the Speaker is technically neutral and therefore there is a convention that the major parties do not contest the seat. That doesn't stop anyone from doing so. Mr Farage, with some justification, argued that the constituents were having their votes taken from them. No-one seems to have bothered about this in the past but Mr Farage is a political opportunist and I see no reason why he shouldn't be so. There are a lot of people with perfectly respectable reasons for opposing the EU that are nothing to do with xenophobia or the wish to hark back to Empire-indeed there are quite a few spread throughout the member countries of the EU and seemingly gaining in number. He, as a man, may get up some peoples noses but it is generally considered good that there is an organised opposition to any particular political stance so why not with the EU?
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3 panel caps, Aquascutum jackets, Hacket Shirts, Levi's and Adidas Gazelle's.
You mean that I dress like a fascist? Damn, I'm going to have to get an image change - I think I might get some DMs, a pair of bleach stained blue jeans held up by red braces, a Fred Perry shirt and a green bomber jacket.
Thats not what I'm saying at all. I was just pointing out brands that could be associated with football hooliganism and therefore a percentage of people with racial prejudices. I just think in 2010, its less likely to be 'skinheads' backing the BNP itching for a fight, but 'Hooligans'. In either case, i'm talking about aesthetics rather than the people.
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Sorry - I should have put a :D in the post - as I was making a joke.
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i just wanted people to know I though Aquascutum + Gazelles was a strong look! 8)
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I don't support the BNP (I voted left wing, put it that way) but he must've known there was a camera on him. To react like that after getting spat on was stupid.
PAddy
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Its no use trying to judge the BNP by the standards of rational people! The film looks like it was made by one of the BNP supporters to me.
I used to have an Aquascutum rain coat that I got on Greenwich market for £25 - trouble is I kept getting arrested when I went into public toilets... :D
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haha. i thought you were going to say people kept hitting you in the face when you went to see Millwall.
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Aquascrotum. Ha.
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Blimey that was a bit of a dust up! 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If you gob in someones face then what do you expect. Also, if the BNP were campaigning in an Asian Community then surely they would have expected some tension. In a situation like this, spit or no spit, something else would have set it off anyway, as both groups had their blood up.
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I'm not sure whether he's serious. But he does have some issues over his constituency - he has "no-one to vote for" apparently. It's the Speaker's constituency, so apparently if the Speaker gets in, it's not counted in the "first-past-the-post" calculation on who forms a government... and traditionally, apparently, the other majors don't field a candidate against the speaker... I'm not sure if this is the case today... (my colleague speak with fork tongue, I feel)
if that is true (and it's so stupid it probably is), then I sympathise with him. It's a similar thing here in NI, we can't vote for anyone who might influence the actual "real" politics of the UK, and it's very, very annoying. Of course, I combat that by just refusing to vote, but then we don't actually have a protest vote candidate standing, so...
Farage (UKIP), Bercow(spkr), and Stevens (independant) are the main contenders. So he is right, none of the main 3 are available. It is a bit of a bugger, but it means that the electorate have got a free mind to vote for who they want Vs having to vote tactically to try to gain a strong leading party in parliament
that's small consolation for your vote basically not counting. i know it's a similar thing here, and if someone said to me, "Oh, well at least you don't have to tactically vote", I wouldn't be too impressed. Though here we don't get to influence westminster and also have to vote tactically, so I guess we get the worst of both worlds.
But yeah, it seems off that if you happen to live in the speaker's constituency, that you're excluded from democracy. that sucks.
i also agree with what 38th beatle is saying, too. While i disagree with ukip's policies (i disagree with their policies regardless of the stance on europe :lol: ), i certainly don't disagree with their right to stand. ditto the bnp (of course i disagree with their policies even more).
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I saw this video come up a few times today on various forums (rather unsurprisingly to many, I imagine, I read and post on many heavily-leftist sites). And it's all rather reminded me of the Prescott hook. If somebody spits in your face, you're likely to lamp them, and few people would likely disagree with your actions. Course, the three young guys in the video had been goaded by the BNP members, and their very presence in an almost exclusively asian area (as I understand it?) is fairly provocative in itself.
Nobody who dislikes the BNP is going to change their mind, and most of the cretins who do want to vote BNP will be saying good on 'em, whilst nuzzling their treasured, thirty year old NF flags, so it's not gonna make any odds to anything.
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I was shocked this afternoon to learn that a friend of mine has both BNP and National Front candidates standing in her constituency! :o
I didn't realise the NF still existed.
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I was shocked this afternoon to learn that a friend of mine has both BNP and National Front candidates standing in her constituency! :o
I didn't realise the NF still existed.
Only since they all ditched the BNP amongst their new Griffin era of "moderate BNP".
Guffaw.
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I think the 'reinvigoration' of NF from the BNP (which, let us remember, was originally John Tyndall's 'New' National Front) took place when the High Court said the BNP had to allow non white members to join it.
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GOODLORD indeed. That was better than Prescott and Egg Man.
Foolish as well, he may have well lost some potential voters there :?
Being a rambunctious tw@t and hitting someone probably gained some cred with BNP sympathisers, though.
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At least we can be satisfied that BNP support has decreased and they failed to gain a single seat in this election. It seems that the more exposure they get, the more people realise what they're REALLY about.
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John Bercow is a disgusting replacement for the last disgusting speaker and I hope to God he loses to Nigel Farage.
It's a sad Parliament tradition that if you fall within the speakers constituency your mandate is almost ruined.
It seems Buckingham is such a Conservative safe seat that 18 000 people voted for him without realising that he can't actually represent them and is barely Conservative any more anyway.
Farage got 8 000 votes though, not too bad compared to the others
DaveMC - I know what you mean, but I was trying to be an optimist
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i don't much see the point in being an optimist when you're getting screwed over. Just gives the people doing the screwing over an excuse to keep doing it. :)
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At least we can be satisfied that BNP support has decreased and they failed to gain a single seat in this election. It seems that the more exposure they get, the more people realise what they're REALLY about.
Yep :D
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At least we can be satisfied that BNP support has decreased and they failed to gain a single seat in this election. It seems that the more exposure they get, the more people realise what they're REALLY about.
Yep :D
I mentioned this to some friends of mine who are, shall we say, not exactly bigoted but definitely "old-fashioned"....
They said the reason the BNP lost their 12 council seats is that Barking and Dagenham is now "full of Poles and Africans" so apparently there's no-one left to vote for the BNP. A remarkable change in the population in just 4 years. :?
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yeah, i doubt that. i mean, there's been a fair bit of immigration here (roughly 10-20% of the local population, i think, versus roughly 0% maybe 10 years ago- because of the troubles, no-one wanted to come, and i don't blame them), and the election results were the same as ever.
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Brown is leaving.
boooooom!
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However things shake out in the UK. I hope you guys keep the country from being over run by immigrants on benefits. I don't know much about the details but I have a few friends that say they can't even fly the flag in the neighborhood they live in for fear of offending some immigrant person. In the states, in some areas, it is almost like you need to apologize for not being in a minority group.
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I think it'd be nice to see less people on benefits, can't say I give a shit about what nationality they are.
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obviously i'd like to see fewer people on benefits, but i would also say that the benefits would need to be enough that they do what they're meant to. how the $%&# do you live on £60 a week? and why the $%&# do they start getting cut once you start earning more than a fiver?
EDIT: what i mean is, if you set benefits at "deterrent" levels, all you do is screw over the people who genuinely need them, those who are looking for work and who can't find it. those willing to play the system etc. will still be playing it and probably getting far more in benefits anyway. I don't much see the point in penalising those who are using the system properly.
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You're absolutely right.
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Speaking of benefits, I'm on job seekers allowance. Being only 23, I get £50 a week. I look for jobs every day and I'm constantly on relatives backs to get me work, went in today and was told by some one at the job centre that there are no jobs going within 10 miles of Hatfield on their database. Which I've never ever heard of before. My only hope for work is from a previous employer, but even he hasn''t got alot of work. So what my point is, I hope Labour don't remain in 'power' and a deal with the Lib Dems and Conservatives comes to fruition. Labour aren't the cause of the recession, but they've made matters alot worse than what they should of been, now $%&# off out.
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who knows... under a conservative government you might not be able to find work within 15miles!
It's ok though, because when they get power a cut central funding for help to people like the blind and disabled, you can volunteer to be part of the 'Big Society' and help those people within your community, so at least you won't be bored, and everybody wins.
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You'll have Labour out by the end of today, if not 5pm tomorrow.
Tories are gonna raise your taxes (the ones we're still paying on benefits) before they find you a job though.
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I know things aren't going to be better, I didn't even vote because I knew what ever party got into power, it would be the same shite as always.
I'm just quite angry at the moment at how things have been for me for the past 3 years, temporary contracts, nothing permanent and having to sign on again for the 3rd time.
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I have friends who have what sound like similar issues but on a smaller scale. self employed carpenters etc that can't find regular work. All kinds of stuff. My girlfriend just moved back to leeds from london because she couldn't afford to live, work, and finish her masters degree because she lost her job.
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I know things aren't going to be better, I didn't even vote because I knew what ever party got into power, it would be the same shitee as always.
I'm just quite angry at the moment at how things have been for me for the past 3 years, temporary contracts, nothing permanent and having to sign on again for the 3rd time.
I know exactly how you feel, and I hope you get something sorted soon... every one of you guys who are stuck at the moment...
Trouble is, for me, the last time it happened to me was under the Conservatives - I've been going not too bad for the last 13 years...
But I still haven't got over how the Conservatives helped my life at that time... all through that "loadsa money" growth and prosperity bullsh1t period, andrew was getting shafted... several years of on-off disaster, tangling with the benefit system in a big way, broken marriage, etc, I'm still paying for some of it even now... it would take an awful lot for me to welcome the Conservatives (and the basic approach they'll take once they've "sorted the economy") with open arms again...
I was actually "part" of the benefits system as the last Conservative government died (I worked for a Company that provided "Training For Work", one of their schemes at the time). We were utterly overjoyed that we finally got rid of the crowd that really didn't give a sh1t about the unemployed and disenfranchised, except as a cost to be kept down, or as a bunch of people to be hounded for being job-shy, people who ought to be paying taxes...
And you're right about it's gonna be the same sh1te... none of the lot of them are as caring/sharing as we would like/need them to be... but it's just business really... and none of us really fit the mould...
I spent so long unemployed and "losing" when I was younger, I'll never quite forget it...
You actually sound like you've got a bit more "get-up-and-go" than I had... You'll get there - you're gonna win in spite of the system, no matter what the system is or what it changes to... it's up to us all to fight our own battles, or to give up and let the other f@ckers win... I gave up for a while - don't do that, no-one's gonna give you nothing except the bare bones of what it takes to say they were doing their job properly.... but if you keep fighting/looking/re-assessing for yourself, then you'll get there...
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So Cameron is in.
Liberal Democrats have seemingly abandoned PR for a referendum on AV, which will hurt more than it'll help. Anything to get a couple of your pals a seat in government though, eh?
Hopefully they fail to make their 75% agreement and the party tell Clegg to beat it, and then we'll see a fast-failing Tory minority government and another election, which Labour will likely take a majority at because of the dismal term the Tories will have had, and the Liberals will bin Clegg for wrecking their best (and only, within the last 40 years) shout at getting in goverment, probably almost permanently, and we can all live in hope of PR for the next couple decades.
If Clegg does manage to convince his party, he'll have flung away a vaste swathe of the people who voted for him this time, and at the next election, which will be soon, regardless of what happens, the libs will be gubbed. Good. The deserve it for abandoning their principals, voters, members and plenty of their own MPs.
Well done, Britain.
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David Cameron lives around the corner from me. i recently found this out. though i guess he won't be living there long now.
I might go see if I can pop in for brew.
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You're absolutely right.
thanks :)
EDIT: to be fair to clegg, if he'd gone in with labour he'd have been completely savaged by the press. i'm no fan of the tories, though (obviously). I'm just hoping they can moderate the tories enough.
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Nick Clegg is not daft, he'll suck up to Cameron for a while, get the voting reform that will actually give the Liberals a chance of getting into government through the front door and then he'll let the cracks appear. He will be an unpopular leader for the Liberals joining forces with the Tories but the voting reform to Proportional Representation will elevate them to having a genuine shot at a majority government at some stage in the future.
When that's sorted he can offer a voice of balance within the Tories to stop them going off on one again!
David Cameron is in a lose / lose position. Yes, he will put up taxes but how else will he pay for the debt? I would also like to see some tightening of the purse strings so we are not pissing money out in other areas. He'll make the hard decisions then at the next election be voted out for them so we don't have to suffer a long period of Tory rule.
I think shifting Govenments now and again can be good for the country, 17 years of Labour and another 4 of Gordorn Brown would have been too much IMO, but if Labour get a decent leader and get things in order they will be voted in next term refreshed.
Stevepage, It's tough, I was pretty much in the same position as you when I was 23, in and out of temporary jobs and finding it really hard to get something permanent. But looking back I wonder why I didn't give guitar lessons. £20 per hour and there are always people wanting to play guitar. It might not be what you want to do but you have a skill that can start earning you a wage quickly....
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i would photoshop a pic of nick clegg in front of the party slogan "change that works for me", but i can't be arsed. :lol:
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Nick Clegg is not daft, he'll suck up to Cameron for a while, get the voting reform that will actually give the Liberals a chance of getting into government through the front door and then he'll let the cracks appear. He will be an unpopular leader for the Liberals joining forces with the Tories but the voting reform to Proportional Representation will elevate them to having a genuine shot at a majority government at some stage in the future.
But he's not getting PR, he's getting a referendum on AV which the Tories will campaign against, along with the Murdoch empire. And even were the LD to achieve a yes vote for AV, it wont help them in an election. They'd have got a handful more at this election, that's it.
He's not daft, he's getting a few years playing at being in power or the price of his party's future, having alienated core voters, members, backbenchers and activists. LDs forming a coalition without so much as a referendum on PR is mental.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8678196.stm
cameron's face at 0:11-0:12 is amazing
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8678196.stm
cameron's face at 0:11-0:12 is amazing
That's a good moment. I'm enjoying this human face of politics we've seen the last few days. I'm sure it won't last.
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I'm also enjoying this youthful, positive and friendly side of the New Politics that the Tories and Lib Dems are showing us at present. I'm sure that it will be a very fruitful and cosy partnership. For about 3 months. And then:
- they will open the crypt door and let out the ghostly looking but still utterly terrifying Norman Tebbit. All television programmes will be interrupted at that moment so that his hateful face will fill the screen and tell all the poor people out there that the recession is THEIR FAULT for not working hard enough and that from this point on a new Oik Tax will be introduced to reduce their incomes by another third until the deficit is paid off. Cameron will then appear from stage left and peel off his rubber mask to reveal: JAMES MURDOCH!! The fresh new face of the imperialist far right!! Sanctions will be imposed against Wales and Scotland as punishment for repeated and persistent Labour voting and new work camps for people on benefits will open up somewhere in the depths of Norfolk with big iron gates with Arbeit Macht Frei across the top.
Still, they got my vote. I'm off to touch myself intimately whilst looking at pictures of Sarah Palin.
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I'm also enjoying this youthful, positive and friendly side of the New Politics that the Tories and Lib Dems are showing us at present. I'm sure that it will be a very fruitful and cosy partnership. For about 3 months. And then:
- they will open the crypt door and let out the ghostly looking but still utterly terrifying Norman Tebbit. All television programmes will be interrupted at that moment so that his hateful face will fill the screen and tell all the poor people out there that the recession is THEIR FAULT for not working hard enough and that from this point on a new Oik Tax will be introduced to reduce their incomes by another third until the deficit is paid off. Cameron will then appear from stage left and peel off his rubber mask to reveal: JAMES MURDOCH!! The fresh new face of the imperialist far right!! Sanctions will be imposed against Wales and Scotland as punishment for repeated and persistent Labour voting and new work camps for people on benefits will open up somewhere in the depths of Norfolk with big iron gates with Arbeit Macht Frei across the top.
Still, they got my vote. I'm off to touch myself intimately whilst looking at pictures of Sarah Palin.
:lol: this genuinely made me laugh
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Well I'm glad to hear our politicians speaking with an English accent again.. Thank god.
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Nice to see politicians sticking to their guns and not compromising at the first chance of power :roll: Oh, sorry, but its in the 'National Interest' - a lovely new buzz phrase that they're fond of that explains any amount of back-tracking on any issue. And Nick Clegg as Deputy PM? - f*ck off, give me a break :gib:
I keep hearing people saying "how much worse could this coalition gov't be?", which begs the question, 'what is it exactly that Labour did so wrong?'.
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when the government website for creating petitions is back online, I hope someone starts a petition for another election.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8678196.stm
cameron's face at 0:11-0:12 is amazing
That's a good moment. I'm enjoying this human face of politics we've seen the last few days. I'm sure it won't last.
probably choreographed. but still pretty funny.
Well I'm glad to hear our politicians speaking with an English accent again.. Thank god.
gordon brown's accent > RP
Nice to see politicians sticking to their guns and not compromising at the first chance of power :roll: Oh, sorry, but its in the 'National Interest' - a lovely new buzz phrase that they're fond of that explains any amount of back-tracking on any issue. And Nick Clegg as Deputy PM? - f*ck off, give me a break :gib:
I keep hearing people saying "how much worse could this coalition gov't be?", which begs the question, 'what is it exactly that Labour did so wrong?'.
an awful lot. I can list them if you want (and this is from someone who would have preferred to see GB in office than cameron).
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dave_mc, go on then, I'm curious.
btw, here's the cabinet... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100512/tuk-who-s-who-in-the-new-coalition-gover-dba1618.html
God help us.
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ok. bear in mind this is not exhaustive, this is off the top of my head.
-PFI
-iraq war
-turned a blind eye to the banks getting in over their heads
-overly friendly with oligarchs (mandelson) and allowing ridiculous tax loopholes for the super-rich
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
-dithered about bailing out/then nationalising the banks when they realised they were in over their heads
-getting rid of 10p tax rate
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
-starting wars then underfunding the defence forces (i'd prefer they didn't start wars, but if you're going to start them you need to do it right)
-iirc, pretended we'd have a referendum about the lisbon treaty then changed mind
-blatantly admitted to refusal to listen to scientific evidence regarding drugs policy
-knife/gun policy- you get almost more jail time for carrying a weapon than using it (if you're convicted of manslaughter rather than murder)
-ridiculous anti-terror laws
-use of said ridiculous anti-terror laws against iceland, that well-known al quaida heartland
- ID cards
- CCTV everywhere
and as i said, that's off the top of my head. there are bound to be far more.
don't get me wrong, they've done some good things too. and the tories would have done all that and worse. But I'm darned if I'm going to say they're any good, either. Lesser of two evils, that's the best they're getting from me.
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ok. bear in mind this is not exhaustive, this is off the top of my head.
-PFI
-iraq war
-turned a blind eye to the banks getting in over their heads
-overly friendly with oligarchs (mandelson) and allowing ridiculous tax loopholes for the super-rich
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
-dithered about bailing out/then nationalising the banks when they realised they were in over their heads
-getting rid of 10p tax rate
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
-starting wars then underfunding the defence forces (i'd prefer they didn't start wars, but if you're going to start them you need to do it right)
-iirc, pretended we'd have a referendum about the lisbon treaty then changed mind
-blatantly admitted to refusal to listen to scientific evidence regarding drugs policy
-knife/gun policy- you get almost more jail time for carrying a weapon than using it (if you're convicted of manslaughter rather than murder)
-ridiculous anti-terror laws
-use of said ridiculous anti-terror laws against iceland, that well-known al quaida heartland
- ID cards
- CCTV everywhere
and as i said, that's off the top of my head. there are bound to be far more.
don't get me wrong, they've done some good things too. and the tories would have done all that and worse. But I'm darned if I'm going to say they're any good, either. Lesser of two evils, that's the best they're getting from me.
Thing is, any one of those needs at least a dissertation writing on why it was a bad thing. There's not really much point in just listing things without justification.
I don't know who installed the leather sofa on this fence but quite frankly I don't care. It's comfy.
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ok. bear in mind this is not exhaustive, this is off the top of my head.
-PFI
-iraq war
-turned a blind eye to the banks getting in over their heads
-overly friendly with oligarchs (mandelson) and allowing ridiculous tax loopholes for the super-rich
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
-dithered about bailing out/then nationalising the banks when they realised they were in over their heads
-getting rid of 10p tax rate
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
-starting wars then underfunding the defence forces (i'd prefer they didn't start wars, but if you're going to start them you need to do it right)
-iirc, pretended we'd have a referendum about the lisbon treaty then changed mind
-blatantly admitted to refusal to listen to scientific evidence regarding drugs policy
-knife/gun policy- you get almost more jail time for carrying a weapon than using it (if you're convicted of manslaughter rather than murder)
-ridiculous anti-terror laws
-use of said ridiculous anti-terror laws against iceland, that well-known al quaida heartland
- ID cards
- CCTV everywhere
and as i said, that's off the top of my head. there are bound to be far more.
don't get me wrong, they've done some good things too. and the tories would have done all that and worse. But I'm darned if I'm going to say they're any good, either. Lesser of two evils, that's the best they're getting from me.
Thank you Dave_mc, at least there is someone who has been living in the real world not the f**king Socialist Republic of Fantasy
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I really don't get why people are crying over Lib-Con. You wanted change? You got it. It's an exciting time especially if it really does come to fruition as a true coalition. They can't do worse than Labour! Brown wasn't elected and thus he should have $%&#ed off long ago - ironically if he had called an election when he got in I think he'd still be in now. Browns comments sum everything about Labour and immigration up, really. You can't have an opinion on immigration for fear of being branded racist.
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Well our country is in a mess and the Government, whoever they are made up of, will have an awful time ahead and for we mere mortals I expect it will be very painful.I wish the Government well. I am staying out of politics on this board.
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Thank you Dave_mc, at least there is someone who has been living in the real world not the f**king Socialist Republic of Fantasy
I'm not saying I totally 100% agree with that statement, but it did make me laugh! :lol:
As for the coalition, we've had an election, we got a hung parliament, somebody had to do something. Let's not write them off before they've even started.
God, these politics threads are a nightmare. :roll: :wink:
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God, these politics threads are a nightmare. :roll: :wink:
Actually, I think we've done really well on this thread, five pages and no loss of life yet... :D
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The sour grapes, blind speculation and poor losers in here! Get over it and put up with it. I've had to put up with New Labour since 1997. Yes ok I did vote for
Bliar, Blair too once but soon saw through all the bullshitee. "Something better change de dum dum de dee dee." :headphones3:
Anyway got any good guitar related storys to tell or are we going to bicker, squabble, fuss and grumble about stuff out of our hands until the next general election? Eh eh? Was that a yes at the back there? :lol:
Fbloke, nice bit of satire! :lol:
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ok. bear in mind this is not exhaustive, this is off the top of my head.
-PFI
-iraq war
-turned a blind eye to the banks getting in over their heads
-overly friendly with oligarchs (mandelson) and allowing ridiculous tax loopholes for the super-rich
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
-dithered about bailing out/then nationalising the banks when they realised they were in over their heads
-getting rid of 10p tax rate
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
-starting wars then underfunding the defence forces (i'd prefer they didn't start wars, but if you're going to start them you need to do it right)
-iirc, pretended we'd have a referendum about the lisbon treaty then changed mind
-blatantly admitted to refusal to listen to scientific evidence regarding drugs policy
-knife/gun policy- you get almost more jail time for carrying a weapon than using it (if you're convicted of manslaughter rather than murder)
-ridiculous anti-terror laws
-use of said ridiculous anti-terror laws against iceland, that well-known al quaida heartland
- ID cards
- CCTV everywhere
and as i said, that's off the top of my head. there are bound to be far more.
don't get me wrong, they've done some good things too. and the tories would have done all that and worse. But I'm darned if I'm going to say they're any good, either. Lesser of two evils, that's the best they're getting from me.
Thank you Dave_mc, at least there is someone who has been living in the real world not the f**king Socialist Republic of Fantasy
What's socialism got to do with anything that's happened in British government in the last 30 years? That's Daily Mail Headline chat.
Thinking that Labour are the best of a bad bunch doesn't make you a socialist, in fact, being a La bour voter means you probably aren't a socialist, there's only one Socialist Labour MP, and the rest of the party would like to see him lose his seat! :lol:
Good to see that Theresa May, great adversary of gay rights, abortion, the right to end life and stem cell and embryological research gets a new job.
Equality commisioner.
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Good to see that Theresa May, great adversary of gay rights, abortion, the right to end life and stem cell and embryological research gets a new job.
Equality commisioner.
:lol:
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there's only one Socialist Labour MP, and the rest of the party would like to see him lose his seat! :lol:
Who's that?
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there's only one Socialist Labour MP, and the rest of the party would like to see him lose his seat! :lol:
Who's that?
John McDonnell. Some would say Jon Cruddas too, but really he's centre-left at best these days. He'd be a good candidate for the leadership though, as he would present a real opposition, but I think he's likely to run as a depute candidate with David Miliband to try and garner support from both Blairites and Brownites.
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I thought you might say John McDonnell, a friend of mine was a big supporter of that brief attempt he made on the party leadership.
But isn't Jeremy Corbyn a socialist then? Or Dennis Skinner?
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Well, yeah :lol: I suppose I meant notable, or prominant socialist. One that has influence.
Though in saying that, McDonnell doesn't have much influence either nowadays, and if Milibnd ends up leader, even less so. I'm surprised he hasn;t defected already, he'd still likely keep his seat as an independent, or as a member of one of the socialist parties.
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Thing is, any one of those needs at least a dissertation writing on why it was a bad thing. There's not really much point in just listing things without justification.
I don't know who installed the leather sofa on this fence but quite frankly I don't care. It's comfy.
i think they're fairly obviously wrong. I'm not writing a dissertation. :lol:
Two other gigantic ones I forgot:
- university tuition fees
- lowering capital gains tax from 40% to 10%.
Not sure how i forgot those, especially the tuition fees one, and that's one thing I'm REALLY mad about.
Thank you Dave_mc, at least there is someone who has been living in the real world not the f**king Socialist Republic of Fantasy
funnily enough my problem with labour is that they aren't lefty enough (though I'm also a bit of a libertarian on social issues, so labour's complete disregard for civil liberties annoys me too). :) my big problem with new labour is that it seems to be the worst of both the left and the right.
grr, the stupid quote thing has stopped working, but (to lew) i'd say that brown was elected as much as any other PM. He won a seat at parliament, and the party voted him to be the leader. Granted, he didn't win an election campaign, but he's paid for that now, so...
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Theresa May is actually the Home Secretary not "Equality commisioner" As far as I am aware there is no such role in the Cabinet.
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HOME SECRETARY AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITY - THERESA MAY
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8675705.stm#may
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Theresa May is actually the Home Secretary not "Equality commisioner" As far as I am aware there is no such role in the Cabinet.
My bad, I muddled my words, it's minister for Women and Equality, as Plexi Ken has posted above.
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Also, I've just seen on Have I Got News For You that the Sun ran the headline Dave New World :lol:
One imagines the irony of them running a pun inadvertently referencing a book about the government practicing eugenics, strict class barriers and keeping the population brainwashed and emotionally suppressed with drugs may have been lost on most of their readership.
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Well I stand ( slightly) corrected and hang my head in shame. Dave New World- that is funny though.
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Also, I've just seen on Have I Got News For You that the Sun ran the headline Dave New World :lol:
One imagines the irony of them running a pun inadvertently referencing a book about the government practicing eugenics, strict class barriers and keeping the population brainwashed and emotionally suppressed with drugs may have been lost on most of their readership.
oh dear. mainly the fact it's the worst pun ever. but yeah, the irony of the book. i thought it was something of a critique of socialism, though, though i could be wrong there. i thought the main thrust of it was even if the government were benign, it could have results which were very, very sinister.
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Thing is, any one of those needs at least a dissertation writing on why it was a bad thing. There's not really much point in just listing things without justification.
I don't know who installed the leather sofa on this fence but quite frankly I don't care. It's comfy.
i think they're fairly obviously wrong. I'm not writing a dissertation. :lol:
In that case you must know a great deal more than I do about these issues, which is possible, but as always "I think it's obvious" is far from an argument. Your bland assertions may be right, but they are still bland assertions. As such, I reject all of them.
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In that case you must know a great deal more than I do about these issues, which is possible, but as always "I think it's obvious" is far from an argument. Your bland assertions may be right, but they are still bland assertions. As such, I reject all of them.
OK, please just humour me and tell me how either of these list items could be characterised as "a good thing" ?
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
Go on... I'm all ears. :?
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Do you mean you can genuinely not imagine a situation where either would be desirable? The first could be desirable simply if you need money quickly. Cash flow. The second, social mobility is zero in a utopian state, lowering social mobility in order to approach such would be a good move.
Not that's what is actually happening. I don't have a clear conception of the real situation, so you guys tell me if you know...
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Is the Doc up yet? :?: Still in bed farting Doc? :?:
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Is the Doc up yet? :?: Still in bed farting Doc? :?:
You would need to write a dissertation to confirm that :D
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:?
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The second, social mobility is zero in a utopian state, lowering social mobility in order to approach such would be a good move.
That would be social mobility getting better, that's the opposite of Afghan stated above, the gap is getting wider, not smaller.
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Do you mean you can genuinely not imagine a situation where either would be desirable? The first could be desirable simply if you need money quickly. Cash flow. The second, social mobility is zero in a utopian state, lowering social mobility in order to approach such would be a good move.
Not that's what is actually happening. I don't have a clear conception of the real situation, so you guys tell me if you know...
i don't think we were in need of quick money. gordon himself claimed it was the end of boom and bust. and we were in the longest sustained period of economic growth for ages (if not ever).
I take your point about social mobility being zero being alright if we've already reached some mythical utopian state, but (a) we clearly haven't and (b) more to the point, I did not say social mobility was zero, I said it was getting worse. Even if we HAD reached some perfectly emancipated state where getting ahead was based entirely on merit, social mobility getting worse would be a bad thing. In fact, I'm not sure social mobility WOULD necessarily be zero in a utopian state (you might need a dissertation to explain that), because for it to be a utopian state, there would need to be a large amount of social mobility, as to whom you were born shouldn't affect your chances in life at all. Unless your utopian state were some kind of socialist paradise where there were no social hierarchies at all. And even then you'd need a dissertation to explain why social (and not economic) factors weren't influencing children's chances (i.e. who your parents were, etc.).
perhaps instead of refusing to read or accept what I posted because i didn't post proof, you should actually read what i wrote. Maybe there's not the need for gigantic dissertations which you at first assumed.
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Also, I've just seen on Have I Got News For You that the Sun ran the headline Dave New World :lol:
One imagines the irony of them running a pun inadvertently referencing a book about the government practicing eugenics, strict class barriers and keeping the population brainwashed and emotionally suppressed with drugs may have been lost on most of their readership.
... it's actually appropriate for The Sun, if I remember the book correctly and all it's references to "pneumatic women"
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... and while I'm here...
I've been kinda avoiding this thread, 'cos my views are likely to clash with too many other peoples.
But a couple of people have mentioned that Gordon shouldn't have been PM because he wasn't elected.
In fact, he was. He was elected MP for Kirkcaldy. And Labour were elected several times to form the British Government. We don't have a President in this country, we elect a government which instates a leader. We just vote for MPs and if we're lucky and the maths works out OK they represent us in Parliament.
Mark.
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My God these things get out of hand quickly, don't they?
That would be social mobility getting better, that's the opposite of Afghan stated above, the gap is getting wider, not smaller.
I interpreted it as increasing, rather than literally worsening. On your interpretation of course I can't imagine a scenario where getting worse is an improvement, that just doesn't make sense.
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i don't think we were in need of quick money. gordon himself claimed it was the end of boom and bust. and we were in the longest sustained period of economic growth for ages (if not ever).
You may well be right, but my initial point still stands - these issues are far too complex to be summed up in 2-3 sentences. You can't expect something like the above to actually convince anyone, can you?
I take your point about social mobility being zero being alright if we've already reached some mythical utopian state, but (a) we clearly haven't and (b) more to the point, I did not say social mobility was zero, I said it was getting worse. Even if we HAD reached some perfectly emancipated state where getting ahead was based entirely on merit, social mobility getting worse would be a bad thing. In fact, I'm not sure social mobility WOULD necessarily be zero in a utopian state (you might need a dissertation to explain that), because for it to be a utopian state, there would need to be a large amount of social mobility, as to whom you were born shouldn't affect your chances in life at all. Unless your utopian state were some kind of socialist paradise where there were no social hierarchies at all. And even then you'd need a dissertation to explain why social (and not economic) factors weren't influencing children's chances (i.e. who your parents were, etc.).
Well this is a bit of a strawman really, isn't it? I never said anything about necessities.
perhaps instead of refusing to read or accept what I posted because i didn't post proof, you should actually read what i wrote. Maybe there's not the need for gigantic dissertations which you at first assumed.
I did, but if you'd like me to quote them all individually:
-PFI
I don't know what the impact was (is?) of this, so I can't agree with you without significantly more information.
-iraq war
I see positives, I see negatives, what I don't see is how the two stack up overall.
-turned a blind eye to the banks getting in over their heads
You'd have to be more specific on what exactly happened for me to form an opinion on this.
-overly friendly with oligarchs (mandelson) and allowing ridiculous tax loopholes for the super-rich
What tax loopholes? Overly friendly how?
-selling off gold reserves when gold was at an all-time low
There must have been some reason for this, without knowing what that reason was it'd just be idiotic to form an opinion. If all I knew about my laptop was that the fans make a noise which is occasionally mildly irritating I'd refrain from hating the thing until I found out a bit more about it...
-dithered about bailing out/then nationalising the banks when they realised they were in over their heads
Again, this needs to be *far* more specific. You might as well have just said "did a load of shite stuff".
-getting rid of 10p tax rate
What were the negative consequences of this then? Why do they outweigh the positive?
-social mobility is getting worse, not better
This is not expressed as something Labout did, it is just something that (allegedly) happened while they were in office. What are you suggesting they did wrong?
-starting wars then underfunding the defence forces (i'd prefer they didn't start wars, but if you're going to start them you need to do it right)
There's no such thing as an adequately funded soldier. Unless you buy them bullet proof skin some of them are still going to die. Sort of comes with the job description... Should they have funded the forces better? How much better, taking the money from where?
-iirc, pretended we'd have a referendum about the lisbon treaty then changed mind
If you recall correctly. Not the most convincing authority, your questionable recollection...
-blatantly admitted to refusal to listen to scientific evidence regarding drugs policy
Why would it have been better not to admit to this? What would have happened differently?
-knife/gun policy- you get almost more jail time for carrying a weapon than using it (if you're convicted of manslaughter rather than murder)
So what was actually done, and were there no good reasons at all for what was done?
-ridiculous anti-terror laws
This is just vague as hell. What was done?
-use of said ridiculous anti-terror laws against iceland, that well-known al quaida heartland
What was done?
- ID cards
What about them?
- CCTV everywhereT
Where is everywhere, and why is this a bad thing?
Those would be my initial questions on any of those topics.
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Wibble.
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Shut up and play your guitar Doc! :lol:
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I am inclined to agree with Johnny, Doc, there is no point arguing with him over it :lol:
I see exactly what you mean, and agree with you entirely on the point you're trying to make :D
Some of those things I do not see as a bad thing myself, some I do, some, like you, I don't know enough about... so I'm not prepared to accept a short statement along the lines of "X wears Y-fronts" as proof of "badness" ...
That's about it, isn't it?
(I think 38th might be expressing the same thing, but more succinctly :lol:)
(apologies if you're not 38th, you don't need to clarify/expand :lol:)
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Shut up and play your guitar Doc! :lol:
Why should he play his guitar?
Should he play his guitar well or should he play it badly?
Left handed or right handed?
I fear you will have to provide alot more information for him to accept this request... :?
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Of course he is. Wibble is a well know expression of Roger Irrelevant!
Anyway This thread is still going strong. Another weeks work under our belts, which must mean its Friday. 5 0' Clock came and went so I missed Crackerjack but the pub is still open, just, so I'm off out to drink lager and fight like the stereotypical working class scumbag that I am. Bye! :wink:
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Honestly you try to make one simple, innocuous point and then nobody will leave you alone. :lol: I've been up for 26 hours so guitar is a no no, my last shred of hand to brain coordination vanished around lunchtime. :(
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Yes Andy, you interpreted it exactly ( as did Johnny).
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:lol: :lol: We're not even f**king drunk yet! ... See ya'll at about 2.30am for some real sh1t talking :lol: :lol:
PDT_029
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Give me 10 minutes or so Dave. Actually, its Friday, I am not gigging so I am going to watch a mate's band and have a few pints whilst I am at it.
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my big problem is that i don't know if you (dr stein) are being serious or being facetious. I do understand all those points I made enough where writing one sentence is enough to explain what was going on. if you don't, then look them up. there's plenty of information available online on e.g. wikipedia. if you do already understand them well enough, then there's no way i'm writing a mega-post to explain what happened.
from my position it just looks like pedantry in some futile attempt to look smarter than you are.
i agree that things are complicated; i never suggested they weren't. if you genuinely want me to explain why i think each of those things are bad, then i'll do it.
EDIT: I'm sorry if I sound a bit touchy. It's not because I can't answer your questions- it's because I don't want to do a gigantic post if you're just trolling for teh lulz. :lol:
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my big problem is that i don't know if you (dr stein) are being serious or being facetious. I do understand all those points I made enough where writing one sentence is enough to explain what was going on. if you don't, then look them up. there's plenty of information available online on e.g. wikipedia. if you do already understand them well enough, then there's no way i'm writing a mega-post to explain what happened.
from my position it just looks like pedantry in some futile attempt to look smarter than you are.
i agree that things are complicated; i never suggested they weren't. if you genuinely want me to explain why i think each of those things are bad, then i'll do it.
EDIT: I'm sorry if I sound a bit touchy. It's not because I can't answer your questions- it's because I don't want to do a gigantic post if you're just trolling for teh lulz. :lol:
I definitely don't want you to explain to me, I don't care enough. I just wanted to point out that a list of vague and unjustified claims wasn't going to achieve anything.
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fair enough :) (actually a bit relieved, i could justify it ok but it would have taken a lot of effort :lol: )
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:lol: I love this forum...
First time I've looked at this thread since I posted my last one on Friday before leaving work... and still this thread is going strong with no bloodshed... I reckon it'll die soon cos there's not much else to say... BUT, I don't know of any other forum that could have managed to have this discussion without major upset...
You're all beautiful ... I'm gonna go play me new guitar :D
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Yeah play your new one. What is it?
I've been playing mine all morning. It's better than arguing about politics. That is one hell of a waste of time with no effect on how this country is run.
Have a good Sunday!
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Over here NGD (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21236.0) Johnny.
EDIT: Ah! You've already found it! :D