Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: AndyR on May 16, 2010, 10:51:49 AM

Title: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 16, 2010, 10:51:49 AM
A few weeks ago, in the "You know you've got bad GAS when..." thread (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21045.0), I made the following foolish (but true) statement:

"... you're walking home with a guitar case you didn't have when you left the house and you can't really remember how it came to be in your hands..."

Well, yesterday was one such day - my Roadworn 60s strat now has a Roadworn 50s strat as a friend... :roll:

There are a number of people/factors that I blame for this:


I think the 60s one is far prettier and more "me" (the red in the sunburst, my preference for the three-ply 11 hole guard on strats, my preference for the look of rosewood boards on strats), but this new one is lovely to play, and the "look" in the mirror is growing on me. I also have a sneaking feeling that this one is an even better guitar.

This is the first time (in nearly 30 years) that I've owned a maple-board strat, and I'm starting to discover what I've been missing. The difference is not huge (the change from stock 10s to my 11s made a much bigger difference in tone), but there's this indefinable extra "something", an air of "rightness" when I attack certain things on this guitar... Jimi Hendrix, Ritchie Blackmore, Mark Knopfler, or 70s/80s Eric Clapton stuff... they just seem to bubble, bounce, and bite more than on a rosewood board.

:D

(And btw, Philly, while we were prowling and "window" shopping, Mrs R, looking at a Jaguar and some strats, said "why on earth do they paint the headstocks of some of them, it looks dreadful..." - what a gem this woman is :lol:, I'm continually finding more good reasons as to why I married her...!)
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Philly Q on May 16, 2010, 11:49:11 AM
(And btw, Philly, while we were prowling and "window" shopping, Mrs R, looking at a Jaguar and some strats, said "why on earth do they paint the headstocks of some of them, it looks dreadful..." - what a gem this woman is :lol:, I'm continually finding more good reasons as to why I married her...!)

She one crazy lady!  :P

I have to say, it looks great apart from that bloody fingerboard!  I'd be tempted to get it refinished then re-reliced, but that rather defeats the point cost-wise.

I'd also be tempted to get an aged gold anodised scratchplate, pronto.  The single-ply white looks fine, but I hate the way they're so thin and flimsy.

Sorry Andy, I'm being all negative.  It's the sound that counts.  So what pickups will this one be getting?
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: gingataff on May 16, 2010, 12:08:31 PM
Nice.
'50s style Strats are my favourite, I'd be hard pushed to choose between black and burst though :?
Hows the neck? It's a V isn't it?
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 16, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
The wear patterns on the fingerboard are not great (notice I've already started work on the 9-12 section where they don't put any wear :lol:)... BUT, it is already starting to look very righteous in the bare wood sections - it's gonna look fine once it's less anaemic...

I'm getting used to the scratchplate as well. It looks VERY white sat next to the others, but it looks kinda right wearing it. I don't really go for the gold anodised look, otherwise I'd probably have been looking into it already.

Pickups... hmmm... Right at the moment, I am extremely tempted to keep the Tex Mexes in this one. They didn't quite cut it for me in the 60s, but in this one they sound really very nice. Even the bridge pickup on its own. I've already done my master tone mod, but even full-on, the bridge is usable.

However, I also suspect that the Sultans would sound extremely nice in this beastie. So I think poor old Edith (the CIJ Fiesta Red) is probably gonna get her second set of BKPs torn from her, even if it's just as an experiment :lol:

The "obvious" choice would be Apaches... but I want to try the Sultans in her first. Firstly so that I don't have to spend anymore right now... secondly because moving the ITs was a revelation and I think there's another one waiting... but thirdly because I know that Tex Mexes go quite well in the CIJ and it would open things up for trying Mother's Milks, or more likely the 62 set, later on.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: BigB on May 16, 2010, 12:18:20 PM
A man can never have too many strats, or so they say :lol:

You lucky guy...
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 16, 2010, 12:19:57 PM
Nice.
'50s style Strats are my favourite, I'd be hard pushed to choose between black and burst though :?
Hows the neck? It's a V isn't it?

Yeah, I'd call it a "soft" V. I have a CIJ tele with a much harder V.

The 60s RW neck feels quite chunky in comparison, although in reality I don't think there's a lot of difference, it's just the 50s hasn't got any "shoulders".

One thing that I have noticed this morning. I don't know whether it's the maple board, or the different neck profile, but I get a distinct feeling that the fingerboard is flatter on the 50s while I'm playing. It's not, they're both 7.25 (well, that's what's advertised, and looking close up they look the same - I've no method of measuring it for certain though).

A man can never have too many strats, or so they say :lol:

You lucky guy...

:lol:

Yep, my strats have caught up with my teles at last (seeing as I'm a strat guy really).
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Philly Q on May 16, 2010, 12:29:58 PM
The wear patterns on the fingerboard are not great (notice I've already started work on the 9-12 section where they don't put any wear :lol:)... BUT, it is already starting to look very righteous in the bare wood sections - it's gonna look fine once it's less anaemic...

They've put the least wear on the bits of the neck I play the most!  Weird.

Interesting what you said about the '60s neck feeling chunkier, the couple of '50s V necks I've owned felt too big to me.  I know what you mean about the lack of "shoulders", but it's the extra depth near the nut I don't get on with.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 16, 2010, 12:40:29 PM
Holding them side by side (again, no accurate way of measuring them here), it looks as if the 50s RW neck is the same depth as the 60s - so yeah, taking some off for a soft V would make it feel less chunky, I guess :lol:. I think my CIJ tele has a deeper neck
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: roland_rat on May 16, 2010, 03:26:35 PM
Congratulations Andy on your new purchase.  I will intrested to here how you get on with any pickup swaps you try. Enjoy ! :D
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Johnny Mac on May 16, 2010, 03:47:18 PM
Very nice Andy!
I want one!  :D
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: 38thBeatle on May 16, 2010, 04:05:26 PM
Great buy Andy- looks great.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Jonny on May 16, 2010, 05:11:28 PM
She is quite the lovely specimen, the guitar that is. I'm sure your wife is too.

I thought 50s had the larger headstock, or maybe that's the 60s one.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: dave_mc on May 16, 2010, 06:07:43 PM
excellent :D

I agree with your wife about the painted headstocks too, not a fan. only painted headstocks i like are when a guitar has a figured top (maple say), and a figured, painted veneer is put on the headstock to match.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: PPPMAT on May 16, 2010, 06:43:32 PM
Looks great Andy I love sunburst strats! I am reliably informed that the wear pattern looks better with some grime in it from playing time so let me know how it goes. :) I liked te 50's 'V' shape - very playable.

Jealous....
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Andrew W on May 16, 2010, 06:59:31 PM
That's a really lovely guitar you have there.  I cannot help myself around maple boarded sunburst Strats.  It's a weakness. :)
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: gordiji on May 16, 2010, 08:08:54 PM
lovely guitar, lovely wife, can one ask more?
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: gwEm on May 16, 2010, 09:07:48 PM
i like a good strat here ;)

nice one Missus R!
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: FernandoDuarte on May 17, 2010, 02:31:11 PM
Lovely Strat!!
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Jonny on May 17, 2010, 06:14:08 PM
Not to branch off too wildly from the congratulatory session but would it cost more to get a non-relic'd guitar relic'd or just to buy one of these?
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 17, 2010, 06:44:32 PM
Not to branch off too wildly from the congratulatory session but would it cost more to get a non-relic'd guitar relic'd or just to buy one of these?

I'm not really sure.

To be honest, if they did a Roadworn NOS, I'd be buying those instead :lol:

I think the main thing is that you'd want "nitro finished" to get "authentic" looking relicing. Witness this very guitar actually - the bodies are nitro finish, but the necks are the standard MIM necks sanded down - so poly. That's why the maple board guitars have dodgy looking maple boards!

I have seen pictures of people making SRV copies out of Squiers etc - but you'll always be open to "that's a fine job, but you can't really relic poly properly, can you..."

It seems to me that "decent" relicing is quite an art form and somewhat time consuming - so rather expensive (unless you do it yourself, and that could possibly prove even more expensive!!). I'm guessing that if someone's after relic fenders, then the Roadworns are the possibly the best bang-for-buck at the moment. For me that includes the Custom Shop option and the guys who turn out relics for a living. It all depends whether you'd be comfortable with the relicing on the guitar itself - but that actually applies to all of them, even the most and bespoke expensive ones, not just the poor old Roadworns and their regimented wear... (actually, now I have two, it's not that regimented - you can see that there must be instructions in the factory "a bit here, two or three bits there..." and so on - but you'd actually have to be going out of your way to notice the pattern on these two. It's only cos you know they're mass produced that you start looking for and noticing holes in roughly the same place... I'm more than comfy having the two sat next to each other in the living room, I wasn't sure I would be...)

BUT - I'm not really a relic-guy. I'm not anti them at all (well, I wouldn't have these two would I? :lol:), but I don't get excited by relics, and definitely wouldn't spend big bucks on one myself at the moment. I tried the Roadworns because I heard they can be crazy-good guitars, worth the 100 or so more than the standard MIMs (which I'd tried, and didn't really like). The Roadworn's I've played have been stunners, they just talk to me, and I managed to get over the look and the "reliced to a pattern" thing about them.... so they found themselves coming home with me :)

EDIT: Another thing to bear in mind if you try them out - all the roadworns I've seen in shops, including the two I've bought, really do look and feel thoroughly neglected and unloved. That changes within hours of getting the thing home and starting to, er, love it :lol:. After just a couple of weeks playing and polishing with a dry cloth, my 60s one started looking like a million dollars... and I'm sure this one will too
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: Philly Q on May 17, 2010, 06:56:53 PM
I'm still tempted to get a Custom Shop relic one day.  And I'd be hesitant to buy a shiny new guitar then get it beaten up, it just doesn't seem right somehow.

But.... if I was in the market for a Roadworn, I wouldn't hesitate to "personalise" the relicing myself by adding a few more chips and scratches and "expanding" the worn bits.  Unless you were really hamfisted it couldn't do any harm and the guitar would look less obviously off-the-shelf.

The neck would be more difficult than the body, I think, not least because of the urethane finish (or whatever it is).  But I'd definitely go '60s (rosewood) so that's less of an issue anyway.
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: FernandoDuarte on May 17, 2010, 07:25:01 PM
Planning re-finish the neck to Lacquer?
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: viking on May 17, 2010, 09:01:31 PM
Congrats  8)!And an interesting read!I'm like you;i own 3 Strats (played Strats for decades.. :)) and i never had a maple-board one!But I would LOVE to get one!Now,i will have to try to find a "roadworn"one...
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 18, 2010, 09:51:48 AM
Planning re-finish the neck to Lacquer?

Nope :D - that would kind of defeat the object of accepting and going for the Roadworn (also, I don't seem to get on with nitro necks :roll:)

No, I shall work a bit more on the lack of wear on frets 9-12, and then let nature take it's course.

It won't be nature entirely - I'll probably include the fretboard in some of the treatment that the back of the neck will get in the coming weeks.

I did this to my 60s Roadworn, and I'm doing it to my CIJ after I stripped it's neck a few weeks back:

After removing any extra lacquer I don't want (the Roadworns have very variable "wear" on the back of the neck - some have almost no finish, others have lots left - I pretty much want the back of the neck clear), I do the following:

0000 Wire wool to make it nice and smooth 8)
Briwax it a few times
Wire wool it a spot more
Dose it with "Fret Doctor"
Play it to death and repeat any of the above steps as necessary
Occasionally rub some cigarette ash into it if I want discolouring(!) - seems to look better than powdered graphite :lol:

My 60s RW (after about 6 months) has a gorgeous warm and smooth (but obviously bare wood) neck. The CIJ (after a month or so) is getting there. The maple neck of the 50s RW seems to have a more "open grain" than the neck of the 60s, so I think it's likely to "discolour" a lot faster...
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: PPPMAT on May 18, 2010, 12:30:33 PM
The issue of relicing your own 'road worn' is an interesting one. You could view the roadworns as a canvas to start your relicing from. It works very well, you can mark the paintwork with a plectrum its that soft and thin so easy to make it look knackered quite quickly.

The only down side to the road worns that I have found is that stock from the shop they have been setup by monkeys and really come to life after a proper setup. They do sound good though - I bought mine after trying loads at all price pojnts (except Custom shop) and it was just plain 'the best'...

Title: Re: NGD
Post by: tomjackson on May 18, 2010, 12:38:23 PM

It's nice as it is, with the laquer on the fretboad already removed it will relic itself very quickly with playing and start to look more natural.

Like breaking in speakers the best method is to just play them!
Title: Re: NGD
Post by: AndyR on May 18, 2010, 12:58:36 PM
Yep, I'm with both those points of view.

The "back of the neck" thing is purely about comfort for me. I like stripped necks anyway, and I learnt years ago, and relearnt with my 60s RW, that little areas of "roughness" can be caused by some finish left on there but not visible. So I took all the laquer off the playing area, and then gently went up and down the neck with 0000 wool until it felt like the proverbial baby's bum. Then I oil it, and play for a week or so. If, after a week or so, it was starting to feel rough in places, I'd smooth and oil again. Not big pressure with the wool - you are taking wood away! - just enough to make it smooth. With my 60s RW it took 3 sessions and it has never needed the wool again.

I have to admit that I've done a few "cosmetic" things as well. My 60s RW has the following from my 1980s JV Squier:

The 11 scratchplate screws and 2 jackplate screws
The knobs
The pickups covers
The selector switch tip

This is partly because they're all rusted and beaten to sh1t from hundreds of gigs, better than the roadworn's bits were... and partly because I'm emotionally attached to that old guitar and it seemed nice having these parts on this guitar.

And I have a nice little jar of salt and vinegar solution. It occasionally goes on the pickup screws and switch screws (which I couldn't replace, the rusted ones from the JV were too thin), and also on all bare wood on the body. I have very acid sweat, so I reasoned that a spot of Sarson's and sea-salt periodically would speed up the process (seeing as I don't gig anymore). I won't go near the bridge plate or the neck with this stuff though :lol:.

It's working nicely on the wood - it's definitely looking much more like it's been exposed to the tough old world of rocknroll than it did new...