Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: _tom_ on December 04, 2005, 10:39:30 AM
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Another friend of mine is getting a Gibson soon after xmas (one of the cheap £650 studios or something). However he will be running it (stock!) through a Boss ME50 and a Marshall Valvestate halfstack!
I was telling him to consider getting a better amp first so he will appreciate the sound of the new guitar more but he says "I dont want a valve amp, theres no point, I can get a better sound through my setup as I have hundreds of different effects to emulate a better amp. The only way I will be able to enhance my sound is by getting a Gibson" I dont understand!!
I was then saying that replacing the stock Epi pickups in his guitar with BKPs would probably sound better than stock Gibson pickups of course he says "No, they are on a Gibson, how can they possibly be cr@p, why do you think Gibson are the best guitars?!" I then explained why Bareknuckles sound better (due to handwinding, better materials and all that kinda stuff) and he just ends with "You really do talk out of your arse sometimes". Ignorance? I dont know, but its bloody annoying!
Not sure whether this should've gone in Time Out or not but it is about Guitars, Amps and Effects!
Rant type thing over :lol:
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Some people just want to be fooled.
I'm sure he'll get very frustrated when he can't match the tone of your Epi with his Gibson. :twisted:
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Some people just want to be fooled.
I'm sure he'll get very frustrated when he can't match the tone of your Epi with his Gibson. :twisted:
Hehe we'll see, I mean afterall it IS A GIBSON :roll: :lol: It'll probably have better wood than my Epi though I guess but shush!
Oh yeah, heres another one! "Why would I want to get a new amp, I have a Marshall halfstack, you cant really get better than that!" :lol: :lol:
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i hit people like that in the face with a spiked club. they deserve nothing else
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well as long as he's happy with his tone nevermind. you need to take him out to a good music shop and show him what he's missing
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well as long as he's happy with his tone nevermind. you need to take him out to a good music shop and show him what he's missing
Yeah I know what you're saying and agree, but I cant help but think how much happier he will be if he gets a decent valve amp and uses that for overdrive instead of Boss ME50 overdrives! Not to mention getting Bareknuckles!
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Hah - another one...he will learn - it's his money, somebody has to keep the musical instrument business going!!
I was the same - but that was back when valve amps were pretty expensive and they were JCM900s!! I remember playing a Peavey Classic 50 amp and thinking this is a good tone, then going out and buying a multi effect thinking I needed all those effects and sounds.
Now I've got a Marshall valve amp thats all I need... :lol:
With a Fender for clean and a few pedals!!
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Yeah, my first year into playing I got some cr@ppy amp, and a Korg AX100G or something. I realised I didnt need any of the sounds about a month or two after I got it, and hated its overdrives/distortions. I read the HC forums alot though and realised what I needed was a valve amp! Havent looked back since I discovered the feel and sound of a real valve amp. I have the Fender which works for most stuff, but high gain on it isnt nice, so of course I need an Engl :lol:
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I went through a few multi FX's too. It's more down to their "feature packed, compact design" than sound, why have a few, select pedals when you can have 'em all in one box? It's economical sense.
It's just a shame that the cheap-mid range one's don't sound that good. IMO o' course. ;)
Had a ZOOM GFX707 and a BOSS ME-30, and it was when I got into recording that I realised they sounded awful. The POD v2.0 was a bit of a revelation, it actually sounded alright, and the PODxt sounds a whole lot better. Good for quiet practicing and recording. Only experience of these things can tell you that a simple guitar & amp setup sounds much better than any multiFX/modeller.
Admittedly, I thought the same when I bought my LP Studio years back. How can the pickups be that bad, they're Gibson pickups on a Gibson guitar, surely they MUST be pretty good. Again, experience and using your ears makes you wake up to the fact that the stock pickups are not that great, for me, it was buying another set of 490/498's and installing them in another LP type guitar that made me realise they were sh1te.
I think you need to convince your mate to get some recording done with his set up and yours and then both sit & listen to the outcome.
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Yeah he has done some recordings of his Boss straight into the soundcard, they sound awful and he just blames it on the PC. I know that will affect it a bit, as stock soundcards arent always that amazing, but when he plays it through his amp it doesnt sound a whole lot better..
I know that multi fx may be good from a money point of view. But sound and ease of use is more important to me, which multi fx dont have imho.
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I thought like that once too! I suppose we get brainwashed by the adverts and hype. Your mates going to look :oops: when he hears your Epi with the Mules and your Fender amp!
I bought a multi effects unit, a Yamaha Magicstomp. I never use it now. Most of the sounds are shitee. There's a few nice ones but i don't want to hear them messing with my tone. After hearing about Ben's and HJM's comments on the pedals they use, Homebrew and Keeley I'd go for those brands if I need any other pedals rather than get seduced by a Ad' or write up that had a nice backhander.
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I think your friend has simply bought into the hype that Gibson and Marshall still put out. I can't really comment on Gibson as I've never had one, but as somebody who has a Valvestate I can say that they suck. The fact is that Marshall's glory years have gone and the accountants took over, although I understand many of the talented technicians still work for them in the research departments etc. I'm pretty sure the Valvestates are made in China not Bletchley. If they were still putting out good new designs then they wouldn't have put out their reissue and hand-wired series of amps which go back to the early 80's and beyond. I stood my old JCM800 head against my friends MG head and it was obvious mine sounded better. The fact is that modelling amps cannot properly recreate the sine waves of valve amps - some might get close, but at high volume they don't sound the same. Modelling amps are designed for be sound engineer friendly ie. they control the volume.
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I have to say Gibsons are better than Epi's. They do have a vibe going but still, I was bored with my Gibson within a year.
And where's the fun in a stock Gibson and leaving it stock? It's much more fun and satisfying to buy, let's say, an Epi and pimping it up to your personal specs.
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I have to say Gibsons are better than Epi's. They do have a vibe going but still, I was bored with my Gibson within a year.
And where's the fun in a stock Gibson and leaving it stock? It's much more fun and satisfying to buy, let's say, an Epi and pimping it up to your personal specs.
Yeah I'm sure they are better on paper but my Epi played pretty much the same as the Gibsons I played, and yeah, its more fun to pimp out a cheaper guitar, I'm in the process of getting new stuff for my Epi still (next up is the pots etc, then bridge saddles).
I love being able to talk guitars with people who know what they are talking about, probably why I post on here too much :P
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I love being able to talk guitars with people who know what they are talking about, probably why I post on here too much :P
Indeed!!! the people on this forum seem like the only people in the world that know their shite.
I'd rather pimp an epi than a gibson - cuz i'd try and take care of a gibson, i'd play an epi to death with no second thoughts :twisted:
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well to be honest if anyone of you guys offered to trade my peavey bandit 112 and stock gibson sg special for a bareknuckle loaded guitar and tube amp id turn you down. i'm really happy with my sound, and even better is that it was pretty cheap, and sound good across all volumes.
some people have different tastes. i personally hate tube amps, but 90% of guitarists love them (and yes i've compared them, jcm800's or dsl's just dont float my boat) maybe your friend feels the same?
but the whole, i have a gibson and marshall- it MUST be the best thing is a bit wrong. also sounds like a total guitar reader too...
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Thing is, just because BKPS sound better than xxx brand pickup, it DOES NOT mean that xxx brand pickup is shitee... it means that we have found something new which sounds better...
Remember, if BKPs didnt exist then we'd all be on an EMG forum (or something) saying how good they are :lol:
I'm all for promoting good stuff like BKPs, but you gotta have tact and not just blatantly rubbish everything else.. when you do that people get defensive and wont listen..
the 'hey man, that sounds good, but these new pickups i got are killer, why dont you have a go with some?' approach works better than 'man, your tone is shite, get some decent gear like mine!' one..
:lol:
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Yeah thats true chrisola, I dont slag off his gear (to his face :lol:)I just tell him what I think could sound better!
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Another friend of mine is getting a Gibson soon after xmas (one of the cheap £650 studios or something). However he will be running it (stock!) through a Boss ME50 and a Marshall Valvestate halfstack!
I was telling him to consider getting a better amp first so he will appreciate the sound of the new guitar more but he says "I dont want a valve amp, theres no point, I can get a better sound through my setup as I have hundreds of different effects to emulate a better amp. The only way I will be able to enhance my sound is by getting a Gibson" I dont understand!!
I was then saying that replacing the stock Epi pickups in his guitar with BKPs would probably sound better than stock Gibson pickups of course he says "No, they are on a Gibson, how can they possibly be cr@p, why do you think Gibson are the best guitars?!" I then explained why Bareknuckles sound better (due to handwinding, better materials and all that kinda stuff) and he just ends with "You really do talk out of your arse sometimes". Ignorance? I dont know, but its bloody annoying!
Not sure whether this should've gone in Time Out or not but it is about Guitars, Amps and Effects!
Rant type thing over :lol:
i have the same problem on other forums- some people just don't want to be helped... there are too many (false) rumours around, and a lot of people prefer to listen to rumours from charlatans than hard facts from people who actually know- look at the increase in people using "alternative" medicines, for example.
cheers
dave
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people prefer to listen to rumours from charlatans than hard facts from people who actually know- look at the increase in people using "alternative" medicines, for example.
cheers
dave
yeah, and organic potatoes are the most poisonous potatoes in the world...
trust me, i know chemistry 8)
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:D OK first, ask your mate what the difference between a Ford costing £7000. & a Ford costing £18000 ? is when he says "well your paying for quality" there `ya go !!! 1; he is paying £600 for a guitar that actually only cost around £150 to make ? it`s called building down to a price, thats why its only costing £600 !! 2; then ask him what the difference is between a gibbo LP studio & a Standard ? [ beside the binding ] again building down to a price !!
As for Marshalls. everybody wants a Marshall !! as this forum proves most of you young`ns on it can`t afford a full on JCM800 or Plexi stack !! so Marshall make cheaper amps so that people who don`t have wads of cash can actually have a Marshall badge on an amp. They build amps for all budgets !! you won`t get a Plexi for £150 !!! you get what you pay for !!!! :roll:
The reason they are building "Handwired" amps is because those of us that can afford them want a hand wired Marshall !!! :wink:
As for modelling amps. They serve a purpose that is to give guitar players options they won`t get any other way. Not every guitar player is playing in a situation that they can use stacks !!! modeling gives them a cheap & good way out. Use them to help you decide WHAT valve amp you will go after !! :D
:D 8)
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As for modelling amps. They serve a purpose that is to give guitar players options they won`t get any other way . . . modeling gives them a cheap & good way out. Use them to help you decide WHAT valve amp you will go after !! :D
:D 8)
Somehow the best sounding amp models on my Vox Tonelab are all the Vox amps. Hmm. Funny, that.
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what the difference is between a gibbo LP studio & a Standard ? [ beside the binding ] again building down to a price !!
If you compare a Standard to a Studio side by side (even a copy of a Standard), you'll notice that the Studio is about 5mm THINNER. They use a slightly thinner maple cap, which is of a much lower grade than that used on a Standard (hence they're usually a block colour, mine was black) this means that the Studio actually sounds a little bit darker than a Standard. Of course, the binding add's a large labour cost as well.
The current pickups used in the Studio are older 490R/498T's, which were used on Standard's to 2002, when the Burstbucker became standard equipment (and loads of other tweaks for the LP's 50th birthday). The older pickups never really sounded that great either.
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my epi V was my first guitar, i tweaked it up gradually over the years and its still my favourite.
whenever i played a gibson in a music shop i've always been dissapointed considering the high price. every single epiphone i tried has been highly playable, even if the hardware has been low quality sometimes, or pickups weren't up to it.
if your at least a semi-decent player, and have a good 'relationship' with your guitar... i think this is perhaps the most important thing. then if the axe sounds great, you can take on anyone IMHO.
just my thoughts on this.
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"modeling gives them a cheap & good way out. Use them to help you decide WHAT valve amp you will go after !! "
Precisely.
:!:
I have a boss BR864 8 track recorder with more effects and modelling that you could poke a stick at. When D/I 'ing it to a PA or even into a clean channel of an amp it sounds absolute rubbish.
But thats not why i got it.
Use all the inbuilt effects to attain the tone I'm after then I can find out what I'm pretty sure i need before handing over a lot of cash to the local music store!!
I've saved alot of money that way.
I just happen to change my mind alot :lol:
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In (slight) defence of your friend, a Marshall Valvestate does what it does perfectly well. My first guitar amp was a dodgy 35w Peavey of some kind or another, and I sounded a hell of a lot better when I changed it for a Valvestate 8080. And then, things sounded an order of magnitude better again when I retired the Charvel Charvette in favour of a Gibson LP :). I knew I didn't sound as good as I would through an all-tube amp, but I sounded pretty damn good, actually (like the punters cared!), and it would have been some time before I might have decided to change up to a 50w head or something (100w would probably be more than I needed!).
The Valvestate (still sitting in my parents garage in the US, waiting) was very cost effective -- as was the Laney TubeFusion hybrid I used over here. As for the Gibson LP ... OK, pimping an Epi might have been more cost effective, but I didn't think so much that way back then, didn't have access to forums full of clever guitarists :), and had serious Gibson-lust that needed slaking! (That said, I was in the US and got a decent deal on a second-hander, so I can't say I'd do it different now :).) On the other hand, I weren't gonna buy no "Studio"! Only the "Standard" would do, all or nothing! :)
All right, I suppose some people might actually prefer the tone of a hybrid or solid-state combo to an all-tube -- but that's weird! ;) For most of us, all-valve will sound better. And I don't even like multi-FX units, never did. But even modelling has its place: I like being able to record decent sounding demos quick, easy, and silent at home -- and trying different amp types. And I could always get a real tube amp or two someday and run them through a hotplate into my digital cab sims (probably easier than building a bunker in which I can cut loose with mic'd stacks :)).
But everyone has different priorities at different times, and the key thing is to use what you like and are happy with wherever you are. You can always sell it on later when you change your mind (and you probably will :)).
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yeah, and organic potatoes are the most poisonous potatoes in the world...
trust me, i know chemistry 8)
hmm, you know any chemistry dave? like water is h02 or something, right? :lol:
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Yeah I know what you mean about the modelling stuff carlaz. I have a V-Amp 2 which is good for recording quickly and quietly, but I never really liked the sound through a clean amp.
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Yeah I know what you mean about the modelling stuff carlaz. I have a V-Amp 2 which is good for recording quickly and quietly, but I never really liked the sound through a clean amp.
Oh, yeah, 100%! I wouldn't be very happy using digital modelling live -- I'd prefer my hybrid combos live over modelling! I mean, I know you can get those amps that are designed to use with digital modelling, but ... the real thing is better. The right tool for the job, and all that :)
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yeah, and organic potatoes are the most poisonous potatoes in the world...
trust me, i know chemistry 8)
hmm, you know any chemistry dave? like water is h02 or something, right? :lol:
yeah, i love the way he assumed i knew no chemistry...
and i wasn't talking about "organic foods", i was talking about alternative medicines- shows how much you know about chemistry
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I don't see what's the problem here. He has relatively bad gear, BUT HE LIKES IT. Isn't that what playing music should be like? He's already happy with his gear thus he has saved lots of money in the long run.
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ahem, whoops! i appear to have led this thread off topic by taking an allegory literally. sorry tom!
and back to business...
(for those not in the know, dave is doing a degree in chemistry...)
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(for those not in the know, dave is doing a degree in chemistry...)
i have a degree in chemistry ;)
i'm doing an mphil (hopefully for not too much longer- long story ;) )
EDIT: and i take full responsibility for skewing the thread, i apologise- i figured i was playing with fire when i posted it (about alternative medicine)
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I take back what I said about the Multi-fx units! I was just generalising, and mostly talking about the Zoom and Boss cheap ones.
However I came across the Korg AX10G (I know its cheap!). I watched the demo vid on their site and to be honest it sounds really good for overdrives!
Go check out the video:
http://www.clicklive.com/KorgUSA/sniffer/AX10G/results.html?os=Windows&osv=NT&br=Netscape&bv=5&java=true&wm=6.4&rn=6.0.12.134&qt=7.0.3&fl=N/A&rate=53.5
I'm actually thinkin about getting one now as I cant get a "proper" valve tone at lower volumes anyway, and the Vox model actually sounds great!
How they sound through a clean valve amp is another matter though :?