Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: soulside on June 15, 2010, 01:37:57 PM
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Hey all
I was looking for some advice on getting a set of BKP for my Les Paul. I play in a post-metal/doom band with another guitarist, we're both using tube amps and both tuned to B standard (BEADF#B) with heavy gauge strings (66, 56, 44, 32, 24P, 16). The guitar is mahogany body and neck.
I play more of the rhythm, use effects on a regular basis - wah, bluebox, phase shifter, flanger, reverb, two delays - and use my crunch (mid gain) channel, as opposed to my lead (high gain) channel. My amp, Bugera 333XL, has 6L6's in it.
I'd like a tone along the lines of Buried Inside, Cult of Luna, Neurosis and Rosetta. I'm looking for something that is mid output, not too hot but not too vintage. I like a bass-y response from my guitar, I dial most of the mids out of my amp and have the bass set higher than the treble, gain set at 5.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
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Alnico Warpig is the far superior choice here. It sounds absolutely fabtastic clean. Its also a beast to be reckoned with. And it can drive a B std guitar with ease.
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For those bands, the 'mid output' request and the desire for bassy sound, the pig isnt really the best IMO. The nailbomb is.
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Your guitar's wood construction, tunings, strings, described tone and amp settings. . . my opinion is the Cold Sweat set.
All BPK's sound great even though they're so different from each other, you should be fine whichever you choose. I get a new one or two every 2 months as I'm fine tuning or changing things, and it's great fun actually because while I'm saving up or deciding for the next I'm enjoying and exploring whatever happens to be in the guitar while waiting.
Good luck. :)
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Thanks to all for the advice so far.
I'd been doing a bit of research before putting the post up, and since, and had been leaning towards to Painkiller to be honest. Probably the main thing that has me leaning that way is that the guitarist from Rosetta actually uses a Painkiller set (http://www.anchorstates.net/2009_03_01_archive.html), not that I am trying to copy, but the tone and sound he has is very appealing to my ears and is close/similar to what I am aiming to achieve from my guitar. I'm not sure if he has used this guitar to record anything since putting the Painkiller's in though. Any thoughts?
These are my impressions of what's been recommended so far. I've listened to the available sound clips here in the forum, though it's hard to say exactly without knowing a bit more about the amp set up, etc.
War Pig's sound good, nice and tight on the bass response. Probably a bit hotter than what I was originally thinking but could suit.
I've listened the the sound clip of the Nailbomb, it's very nice. Sounds like that one could be on the money. I checked out the Ceramic Nailbomb clip and I quite liked the tone there.
The Cold Sweat's sounds too treble-y to me, from the sound clips I could find. That could just be the available sound clips though.
So after all that, what do people think of the Painkiller? Would it be an option worth considering? How would it stack up against the Nailbomb? And would a Ceramic Nailbomb be something I would have the custom order? There doesn't seem to be an option for a Ceramic magnet through the shop.
Thanks again for the advice :D
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Hi soulside, yes the CS is toppy, I have a CS bridge and while experimenting with tuning to B standard I loved it because of its clarity through my Uberschall and would have no other pickup for such tunings and tones.
However this is a personal choice and includes all the variables of equipment. If you're hearing it as too treble-y, then it probably would be for you. I don't have any experience with PK, so I'll step out of the way and hopefully you'll get some feedback there.
If you wanted a C-Bomb, it's my understanding to order the regular NB and in the comments box on the order form put "Ceramic Magnet Spec", best to check with BPK to make sure though.
I have the NB bridge in a guitar tuned to standard Eb for aggressive rock, pop, metal music, it's so much fun as the pickup is just wild with 3D harmonics, at times you never know what's going to come out of it, truly chaos in a pickup as described. It's not clear enough for me at lower tunings though, however a C-Bomb just might be magic in lower tunings.
Choices and more choices! :lol: Good luck again, I'm outta here so the PK boys can help ya with that one.
WR
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Whiterams experience with the CS is pretty consistent with mine and the general consensus - its a bright, tight pickup. Clear and punchy rather than heavy or grindy or anything tremendously overtly metal. That does make it a great pickup for detuning, and I've had it down in drop A# on 24.5 scale and its still been tight and clear.
I've also tested an uaberschall with one of my guitars that had a C-pig, and I thought it was muddy, so that adds up qualitatively.
The C-Bomb is one of my go to pickups for detuned metal. Its extremely tight, quite smooth but not overly so and pretty even across the range, with a bit of a mid hump, but nothing major. I too had little luck detuning the standard nailbomb significantly, and feel that for my tastes it bottoms out at about C/drop C. However, my tastes are for extreme tightness and precision, which those bands arent. The style youre after, to my ears, requires a more organic character and benefits from a little looseness, so I think the A-Bomb would do fine, and the C-Bomb would be too clinical. (Though it is rather unclinical in character for such a precise pickup, I think its a bridge too far for the post-rock/post-metal style). Certainly it retains little to none of the 'vintage' character of the nailbomb (which is very much a metal pickup with a vintage organic vibe to it), or the cold sweat, which is basically an underwound ceramic nailbomb, or so I'm led to believe, and is more organic and quite a bit more toppy and middy with a more open, less compressed style, but I dont think it will give the low end density and impact that you want for those bands.
The painkiller would be OK in some regards and horrible in others. Its got a big grinding midrange and uncompressed dynamic response that would fit the styles of tone of the bands you mention well, but its also got an overly tight low end and a really sharp, almost clicky attack in the top end that doesnt fit the vibe of those styles well. I'd say you want a clear but rounder attack, not a hyper-precise ice pick.
/Thesis.
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MDV - could you possibly elaborate a little bit further in regards to the C-Bomb being too clinical.
It was actually the sound clip you posted about the C-Bomb, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3702469/Memento%20Mori.mp3, which got me to the decision on them. As opposed to this, http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15253.0;attach=5113, by dheim with the A-Bomb. Acknowledging the fact that I don't know much about the tunings and equipment set up used, the C-Bomb just sounded nicer/better/more what I'm after to my ears.
The Alnico and Ceramic both sound great but I seem to like the sound of the Ceramic a bit better, based on the sound clips.
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bumping this one as I'm still curious as to what MDV means by too clinical
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Tight, sharp, smooth mids, compressed.
The c-bomb isnt that sharp for a ceramic, in all fairness, but the bands that you mention all use tones that are basically the opposite of clinical - theyre open, organic, grindy and a bit loose.
If you like the ceramic clpis then cool, but if I were to choose a pickup for 'Buried Inside, Cult of Luna, Neurosis and Rosetta' then I'd get a nailbomb, from the ones I know, or try something like a rebel yell or abraxis or holy diver from indications of tones I've heard in clips.
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Oh, to add; the differences between dheim and my clips will be composed of more than just the magnets. We used totally different gear, and are quite different players.
I believe deihm now has both, perhaps if you ask him extra-nicely he'll do a comparison clip with all the other variables controlled (except the guitar - i.e. it will be the same equipment, settings, monitors, room and all the rest of it).
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Alnico II or VIII Cold sweat. ?
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ha ha, other thread infection this way comes!
not really. Just wanted to say that as much as i personally wanted to use a NB, Tim advised against it in a (more or less) all mahogany guitar. I'm told the lower tuning will only make those inconsistencies worse. We're in the same boat.
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Thanks MDV. That's what I thought you meant but wanted to clarify. I'll get on to deihm and ask if he is able to do a comparison clip so that I can get a better idea of the alnico vs ceramic.
gepetto33 - my guitar is all mahogany, except for the fret board which is rosewood.
I might get in touch with Tim and get his 2 cents worth too. If only there was a better exchange rate between the AUD and Pound, then I could get a few and try them all out haha
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No bother, sorry I missed it earlier.
btw; I remixed memento mori - the track I used the c-bomb and aftermath on. Whatever you think of it, the fact that I didnt make any major changes to the guitars directly should give some indication of how important the setting (in this case mix) of the sound is, which is a useful thing to keep in mind when comparing clips.
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Thanks MDV. That's what I thought you meant but wanted to clarify. I'll get on to deihm and ask if he is able to do a comparison clip so that I can get a better idea of the alnico vs ceramic.
gepetto33 - my guitar is all mahogany, except for the fret board which is rosewood.
I might get in touch with Tim and get his 2 cents worth too. If only there was a better exchange rate between the AUD and Pound, then I could get a few and try them all out haha
Just to add on too what gepetto33 said, I just put some c-bombs in a solid korina guitar with rosewood board tuned to drop c and it is VERY dark sounding & bassy. I know you said you like bassy, but in this axe it's just overboard as the high-mids & highs are just way too overpowered to cut through well. Simply not a good match IMO. I mention this because korina is in the mahogany tone ball park, just typically brighter and this axe is no exception. So that said I'd probably shy away from the c-bombs in an all mahogany guitar based on their eq too.
Even if the eq curve on the c-bombs promised to be more agreeable with your guitar, I agree with MDV in that there isn't much, if any, post-rock/post-metal going on in the c-bomb. The voicing is pretty different IMO. Compared to say a Neurosis Times of Grace type of tone, it's much smoother & modern sounding. It doesn't have that more aggressive-vintage thing you hear in many of those bands.
Not to derail the thread, but....MDV, outside of the C-bombs being tighter and smoother than the regular nailbombs, how would you compare/contrast them?
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You got the biggest differences, but they're also sharper, hotter and more compressed. A bit bassier with their extra tightness as well.
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I guess I'm back to square one a little bit then. I do still like the sound of the Alnico Nailbomb but having checked out the Abraxas I really like the sound of that too. But I was also starting the consider the Emerald a little as well, even though it seems to be more of a "hard rock" pick up.
What would be the pros/cons of an Alnico IV vs an Alnico V? I read the Magnet Types thread and all it seems to indicate is a difference in output with the AV being higher output. Are there any other major differences that I would need to be aware of?
I want something with good bass but that is not going to make the guitar boom, and from the above comments the C-Bomb might make the guitar boom. The tone of Times of Grace being a good example of the general ball park I'm aiming for.
Maybe go with an Abraxas for a while and if it's not what I want try a Nailbomb.
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The Nailbombs are more powerful and not as bright as Abraxas, a friend of mine has a pair of PRS custom 22s one with NBs the other Abraxas, they are very different animals, maybe it is the magnet difference! Tim would be able to explain! where are you in Australia?
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I'm in the ACT.
Maybe your friend could do some rough comparison records and upload them here, if possible.
if they are similar guitars then that should help show the difference between the pickups more.
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I will see what I can do! I have both NBs and Abraxas in Eggle Berlins ( simular to PRS) my Abraxas are AIIs, I do prefer them to the NBs for the music that I play, so if you went for Abraxas and were not happy I would swap you for my NBs!
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i actually just saw rosetta and wouldnt recommend a painkiller for a dark tone. his tone was actually very bright but he got it to thicken up by running a 115 cab with a bass amp pushing it.
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Hah, $%&#..... looks like the All Mahogany combo with Bb tuning didnt end up balancing out that PK voicing....
Or he just had his amp set bright, which is more likely. Been keeping an eye on topics regarding this pickup, b/c it's what Tim suggested for my setup... most examples show this pickup sounding very over-the-top...
It's going in, ill let you guys know what it sounds like in my Spalted Maple Telecaster, and post some examples too... just to give back, there's definitely not a more comprehensive community for this stuff anywhere on the net.
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Brian - can I just say that, in the nicest possible way, i hate you haha. actually it's more that I'm jealous that you got to see Rosetta. Not many post metal/rock bands come to Australia so I don't get the opportunity to see them live.
I'd already moved away from the idea of the Painkiller though. I'm currently leaning towards getting an Abraxas set after listening to some of the sound clips.. Might get Tim to wind them a bit hotter though.
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I've emailed Tim to see what he recommends.
I know MDV recommended against it but I've started considering the Warpig, having listened to a ton more sound clips recently. Basically my options are Warpig, Nailbomb or Abraxas, and I'm unable to narrow it down any further without spending money to get all three.
So I'll see what Tim says and go from there. I'll update this thread once I've made a decision and again when I've got the pickups and can put up a sound clip of how it all turns out.