Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 01:40:13 AM
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I'm a 7 string virgin and wondered how hard it is to go from a 6 stringer to a 7? I love the idea of a 7 string but not a 45 mm nut!! Is it something you get used to just like a chunkier neck or does it always feel really wide? Does it hinder bends or lead playing at all? And!... is there anyone out there using it for stuff other than metal or jazz...? Ta!
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45mm is about standard for a steel string acoustic and a lot less than most classical guitars so it's not too bad really, but my own experience of trying 7 strings was that remembering that the lowest string is a B not an E is quite a learning curve, consequently I don't own one.
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Quite honestly, I find 7 strings more comfortable than a 6 nowadays. I do have fairly large hands I guess, and I have been playing them for over 10 years now, which makes up a 2/3rds majority of the lifespan my guitar playing; perhaps as a result I'm more nonchalant about it than someone who's only flirted with an extra string. However, in recent years I've tried a few 8 strings, and the transition to those was just as painless - the only thing stopping me buying one is the price tag for another custom instrument, since there are no 8 string production models that I like.
The initial transition for me, from what I recall, was swift and painless. I don't find it hinders lead playing or bending at all. Many others who've tried to swap over disagree - I guess it very much depends upon the individual. Plenty of people are happy with a de-tuned six string, which in general is cheaper, has more hardware options and vastly more production models to choose from, and are generally better catered for by most manufacturers. Not every company is so willing to cater for ERG's as BKP is - so it's not just about playability. Things are improving with time, however, compared to 10 years ago you have a multitude of options nowadays.
The best advice I can give you is to play a few - my preference is for ESP style necks (for example, see the Horizon NT7). Lots of people like the Ibanez 7 string necks - I don't, personally, so it's probably important that you try a selection of different brands to get a decent perspective.
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As has already been said, it's more comfortable than playing a classical. You're also unlikely to be playing barre chords involving 7 strings, so it's more about getting extra movement in your wrist than extra stretch in your fingers. If it's an extended scale model then big bends will be more challenging (although not as big a difference as you might think), but this is balanced by the extra control of your bends it gives you, so it just makes lead playing different (and more than half have a floyd anyway if you really need big, quick bends).
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Ta! Classical's don't bother me, but I'm not doing 1.5 tone bends on them. I shall hunt one down to try out.
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On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?
(and I mean apart from the extra string...)
I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players. But is there more to them than that?
I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players? Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?
Mark.
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On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?
(and I mean apart from the extra string...)
I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players. But is there more to them than that?
I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players? Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?
Well, the first guitarist to make it popular was Steve Vai on the "Passion & Warfare" album which is hardly chugging metal. Grinding away on the low B isn't obligatory (though that's all I find myself doing when I try them :))
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Plenty of Jazzers use them to fatten up walking bass lines and chords.
Check out Howard Alden and George Van Eps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAbQWAYW3s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAbQWAYW3s)
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I think Charlie Hunter uses an 8 String.
Look also for the way Tosin Abasi uses a 7 or an 8, almost like guitar & bass in one
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On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?
(and I mean apart from the extra string...)
I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players. But is there more to them than that?
I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players? Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?
Mark.
Yea that's what I was wondering aswell. I've only really seen 7s used for metal and jazz.
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That's largely because guitarists are slaves to convention. There is more than a hint of going to eleven with 7 strings, and consequently they're associated with genres where pushing the envelope is more likely to be applauded than derided (as opposed to blues for example). However, at the end of the day, it's a tool. It's up to you how you use it. If you play lots of scalar runs and arpeggios, it gives you extra shapes to play with, if you play riff based stuff then you've got extra fat notes to add (indeed, if I'm playing 6th root powerchords I'll often play inversions using the 7th). These are why it's popular in jazz and metal circles, but that's not all you can do with it. 7 string guitars are actually traditional in Russian folk and classical music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHVl4kn1nes&feature=related . The added bass notes would actually be pretty cool for fingerstyle/hybrid passages. You can also tune it however you want, so you can achieve cool drones or huge open chords. Paul Gilbert tunes the bottom 3 strings in octaves to create really useful arpeggio shapes.
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This guy does some cool non metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVm3Qpqbhx4
And here's some funk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJfAukW7t_c&feature=related
Cool stuff from Wes Borland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsBMm50Djc&feature=related
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You'll be fine, it feels really natural and the width difference isn't a big (feel-wise) as you might think.
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This guy does some cool non metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVm3Qpqbhx4
Sadly, the guitar sounds utterly abysmal.
After my recent thread about wanting a floyd rose guitar, I'm kinda thinking I might buy an Agile and have a 7 string whilst I'm at it. But that's not a great advert haha.
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been looking at agile's too, nfe you got any idea how much import duty adds to the price?
when I've played 7 strings I found switching easy, 8s are more of a challenge but in a fun way
I think bluesy bendy players who put their thumb way over the top of the neck would struggle the most making the switch, not that I've ever seen anyone play blues on a 7
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I've got an agile 7 string, but I've got the Septor 727 which has a string through Tonepros and passives. It costs about $100 to ship, and then around 22% in taxes.
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Ach, all their 7 strings with Floyds have EMGs. Booo.
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They do them with Blackouts as well, but yeah, the active pickup thing is a real problem when buying 7s.
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Who makes fanned 7s that don't need a remortgage then?
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Who makes fanned 7s that don't need a remortgage then?
agile are only ones I've seen, I think they could look so much better though, suppose to be plans for some fan fret 8s in the future
http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulum7nat.html
http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulum7bloodb.html
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Maybe Tim should branch out into 707 replacement pickups. Got to be an untapped market.
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Just found a UK builder called Marty Siggery, looks like he does some cool stuff!
(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/Luger-05.jpg)
(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/Luger-02.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs607.snc3/31944_123133421057839_109991909038657_115937_2413799_n.jpg)
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/pages/Siggery-Guitars/109991909038657?ref=ts
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Roter is another one. Polish company, does good stuff.
http://www.roterguitars.com/
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Roter is another one. Polish company, does good stuff.
http://www.roterguitars.com/
I've seen those over on 7string.org forum but theres a lot of discussion about issues with the instruments :/
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There's one finishing tomorrow on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-String-Custom-Fan-Fret-baritone-guitar-SIGGERY-/270600416257?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3f010aac01
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Hah, edited because I probably shouldn't make financial / guitar selling decisions when I'm drunk, lol! Will think some more on it... :lol:
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Schecter 7's are nice, but seeing your previous purchases, i'd go for a conklin 7 if you have the cash, or that siggery guy. if you're used to lead playing, one thing to check out is access to the really higher frets, i'm not one that absolutely needs a 24th fret other than tapping or to make bending the 22nd easier, but on my 7 string the 21-24 range feels a bit cramped. on my 8 string it's pretty hopeless to even try a scale run from the high 24th fret. for mega riffage however, the difference isn't so bad. string muting feels different that's for sure. and of course getting used to having a new string (I personally had alot of trouble hitting my D string the first few weeks i had my 7... it fixed itself with practicing :D)
i myself am gassing for a 9 string fan fret guitar ranging from low F# to a high A. but the quote i tried at conklin was over 9000$USD. yikes. i'll have plenty of time to be a killer player by the time i'm able to buy this thing!
be sure to post your NGD, you have some fine taste so far Lew!
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Schecter and Ibanez have good reps for building decent 7-strings.
Some 6-string guitars come with 45mm nuts as well. I wanted a 7-string a long time, went out, tried them, played them and felt the fingerboard was too cramped and somehow the whole thing did not appeal to me. So instead I went with a baritone! Far superior tone IMO due to the longer scale and usually the thicker necks (more wood mass on most baritones, as they are not supposed to be thin shredder necks). Of course some might feel exactly the other way round, preferring a shorter scale such as 25.5" but more strings - I was the other way round - longer scale ok, more strings not so.
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Or, like me, you could do both and get a 27" scale 7 string.
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Spent the evening with my first 7 - it's great. My worries about the wide nut were misguided, it's not a problem and dare I say the width feels more comfortable than a 6! Fingers are getting a bit confused when going to familiar shapes, though!
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glad you like it :)
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I took off the electric power lines and Stuck some 10-46 + a 56 on it and tuned it to Eb - much prefer it that way 8)
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:lol:
I suppose 15-70 in G is an aquired taste
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I know this sounds a bit melodramatic after only a few hours play but having a 7 has been a $%&#ing revelation... it feels more comfortable than a 6 and sounds awesome... why haven't I tried one until now! Other than sometimes forgetting that the E isn't the low string anymore it's been no problem to swap.
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I didnt find the transition a trouble either
I just found that I wasnt writing any better or more interesting music on 7 strings than 6
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I guess if you already tune as low as B then it's not as big a deal but as I live in std or Eb the lower register has a lot of novelty
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out of curiosity, what did you end up buying?
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MDVs old RG7321 - not a 'killer' guitar but a great introduction into 7's and it will tide me over whilst I have a decent 7 built :)