Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 01:40:13 AM

Title: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 01:40:13 AM
I'm a 7 string virgin and wondered how hard it is to go from a 6 stringer to a 7? I love the idea of a 7 string but not a 45 mm nut!! Is it something you get used to just like a chunkier neck or does it always feel really wide? Does it hinder bends or lead playing at all? And!... is there anyone out there using it for stuff other than metal or jazz...? Ta!
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: gingataff on June 30, 2010, 03:14:21 AM
45mm is about standard for a steel string acoustic and a lot less than most classical guitars so it's not too bad really, but my own experience of trying 7 strings was that remembering that the lowest string is a B not an E is quite a learning curve, consequently I don't own one.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Excruciator on June 30, 2010, 03:24:28 AM
Quite honestly, I find 7 strings more comfortable than a 6 nowadays. I do have fairly large hands I guess, and I have been playing them for over 10 years now, which makes up a 2/3rds majority of the lifespan my guitar playing; perhaps as a result I'm more nonchalant about it than someone who's only flirted with an extra string. However, in recent years I've tried a few 8 strings, and the transition to those was just as painless - the only thing stopping me buying one is the price tag for another custom instrument, since there are no 8 string production models that I like.

The initial transition for me, from what I recall, was swift and painless. I don't find it hinders lead playing or bending at all. Many others who've tried to swap over disagree - I guess it very much depends upon the individual. Plenty of people are happy with a de-tuned six string, which in general is cheaper, has more hardware options and vastly more production models to choose from, and are generally better catered for by most manufacturers. Not every company is so willing to cater for ERG's as BKP is - so it's not just about playability. Things are improving with time, however, compared to 10 years ago you have a multitude of options nowadays.

The best advice I can give you is to play a few - my preference is for ESP style necks (for example, see the Horizon NT7). Lots of people like the Ibanez 7 string necks - I don't, personally, so it's probably important that you try a selection of different brands to get a decent perspective.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on June 30, 2010, 11:45:15 AM
As has already been said, it's more comfortable than playing a classical. You're also unlikely to be playing barre chords involving 7 strings, so it's more about getting extra movement in your wrist than extra stretch in your fingers. If it's an extended scale model then big bends will be more challenging (although not as big a difference as you might think), but this is balanced by the extra control of your bends it gives you, so it just makes lead playing different (and more than half have a floyd anyway if you really need big, quick bends).
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 12:28:37 PM
Ta! Classical's don't bother me, but I'm not doing 1.5 tone bends on them. I shall hunt one down to try out.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: MrBump on June 30, 2010, 12:46:17 PM
On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?

(and I mean apart from the extra string...)

I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players.  But is there more to them than that?

I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players?  Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?

Mark.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Antag on June 30, 2010, 12:53:36 PM
On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?

(and I mean apart from the extra string...)

I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players.  But is there more to them than that?

I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players?  Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?
Well, the first guitarist to make it popular was Steve Vai on the "Passion & Warfare" album which is hardly  chugging metal.  Grinding away on the low B isn't obligatory (though that's all I find myself doing when I try them :))
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: gingataff on June 30, 2010, 12:58:26 PM
Plenty of Jazzers use them to fatten up walking bass lines and chords.
Check out Howard Alden and George Van Eps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAbQWAYW3s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAbQWAYW3s)
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: James C on June 30, 2010, 01:05:48 PM
I think Charlie Hunter uses an 8 String.

Look also for the way Tosin Abasi uses a 7 or an 8, almost like guitar & bass in one
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
On a similar note, what does a 7 string offer a "non-metaller"?

(and I mean apart from the extra string...)

I've never really thought about using a 7 string, as I've always thought of them as the domain of the metal chugga-chugga players.  But is there more to them than that?

I mean, do you get 7 string blues/jazz/fusion players?  Can you get more interesting chord shapes with a 7 string?

Mark.

Yea that's what I was wondering aswell. I've only really seen 7s used for metal and jazz.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on June 30, 2010, 01:57:43 PM
That's largely because guitarists are slaves to convention. There is more than a hint of going to eleven with 7 strings, and consequently they're associated with genres where pushing the envelope is more likely to be applauded than derided (as opposed to blues for example). However, at the end of the day, it's a tool. It's up to you how you use it. If you play lots of scalar runs and arpeggios, it gives you extra shapes to play with, if you play riff based stuff then you've got extra fat notes to add (indeed, if I'm playing 6th root powerchords I'll often play inversions using the 7th). These are why it's popular in jazz and metal circles, but that's not all you can do with it. 7 string guitars are actually traditional in Russian folk and classical music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHVl4kn1nes&feature=related . The added bass notes would actually be pretty cool for fingerstyle/hybrid passages. You can also tune it however you want, so you can achieve cool drones or huge open chords. Paul Gilbert tunes the bottom 3 strings in octaves to create really useful arpeggio shapes.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on June 30, 2010, 02:13:10 PM
This guy does some cool non metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVm3Qpqbhx4
And here's some funk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJfAukW7t_c&feature=related
Cool stuff from Wes Borland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsBMm50Djc&feature=related
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Nadz1lla on June 30, 2010, 03:19:57 PM
You'll be fine, it feels really natural and the width difference isn't a big (feel-wise) as you might think.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: nfe on June 30, 2010, 03:28:25 PM
This guy does some cool non metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVm3Qpqbhx4

Sadly, the guitar sounds utterly abysmal.

After my recent thread about wanting a floyd rose guitar, I'm kinda thinking I might buy an Agile and have a 7 string whilst I'm at it. But that's not a great advert haha.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: JDC on June 30, 2010, 03:39:41 PM
been looking at agile's too, nfe you got any idea how much import duty adds to the price?

when I've played 7 strings I found switching easy, 8s are more of a challenge but in a fun way

I think bluesy bendy players who put their thumb way over the top of the neck would struggle the most making the switch, not that I've ever seen anyone play blues on a 7
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on June 30, 2010, 04:09:35 PM
I've got an agile 7 string, but I've got the Septor 727 which has a string through Tonepros and passives. It costs about $100 to ship, and then around 22% in taxes.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: nfe on June 30, 2010, 04:12:24 PM
Ach, all their 7 strings with Floyds have EMGs. Booo.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on June 30, 2010, 04:31:30 PM
They do them with Blackouts as well, but yeah, the active pickup thing is a real problem when buying 7s.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on June 30, 2010, 10:58:30 PM
Who makes fanned 7s that don't need a remortgage then?
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: JDC on July 01, 2010, 01:21:33 AM
Who makes fanned 7s that don't need a remortgage then?

agile are only ones I've seen, I think they could look so much better though, suppose to be plans for some fan fret 8s in the future

http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulum7nat.html
http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulum7bloodb.html
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on July 01, 2010, 04:33:47 PM
Maybe Tim should branch out into 707 replacement pickups. Got to be an untapped market.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on July 01, 2010, 05:56:32 PM
Just found a UK builder called Marty Siggery, looks like he does some cool stuff!

(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/Luger-05.jpg)

(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/Luger-02.jpg)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs607.snc3/31944_123133421057839_109991909038657_115937_2413799_n.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/pages/Siggery-Guitars/109991909038657?ref=ts
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Stevepage on July 01, 2010, 06:01:10 PM
Roter is another one. Polish company, does good stuff.

http://www.roterguitars.com/
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on July 01, 2010, 06:03:51 PM
Roter is another one. Polish company, does good stuff.

http://www.roterguitars.com/

I've seen those over on 7string.org forum but theres a lot of discussion about issues with the instruments :/
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on July 01, 2010, 11:15:09 PM
There's one finishing tomorrow on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-String-Custom-Fan-Fret-baritone-guitar-SIGGERY-/270600416257?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3f010aac01
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Nadz1lla on July 02, 2010, 12:05:32 AM
Hah, edited because I probably shouldn't make financial / guitar selling decisions when I'm drunk, lol! Will think some more on it...  :lol:
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Keven on July 02, 2010, 12:39:30 AM
Schecter 7's are nice, but seeing your previous purchases, i'd go for a conklin 7 if you have the cash, or that siggery guy. if you're used to lead playing, one thing to check out is access to the really higher frets, i'm not one that absolutely needs a 24th fret other than tapping or to make bending the 22nd easier, but on my 7 string the 21-24 range feels a bit cramped. on my 8 string it's pretty hopeless to even try a scale run from the high 24th fret. for mega riffage however, the difference isn't so bad. string muting feels different that's for sure. and of course getting used to having a new string (I personally had alot of trouble hitting my D string the first few weeks i had my 7... it fixed itself with practicing :D)

i myself am gassing for a 9 string fan fret guitar ranging from low F# to a high A. but the quote i tried at conklin was over 9000$USD. yikes. i'll have plenty of time to be a killer player by the time i'm able to buy this thing!

be sure to post your NGD, you have some fine taste so far Lew!
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Alex on July 03, 2010, 10:16:12 AM
Schecter and Ibanez have good reps for building decent 7-strings.

Some 6-string guitars come with 45mm nuts as well. I wanted a 7-string a long time, went out, tried them, played them and felt the fingerboard was too cramped and somehow the whole thing did not appeal to me. So instead I went with a baritone! Far superior tone IMO due to the longer scale and usually the thicker necks (more wood mass on most baritones, as they are not supposed to be thin shredder necks). Of course some might feel exactly the other way round, preferring a shorter scale such as 25.5" but more strings - I was the other way round - longer scale ok, more strings not so.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Sifu Ben on July 04, 2010, 10:22:15 AM
Or, like me, you could do both and get a 27" scale 7 string.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on August 22, 2010, 03:02:21 AM
Spent the evening with my first 7 - it's great. My worries about the wide nut were misguided, it's not a problem and dare I say the width feels more comfortable than a 6! Fingers are getting a bit confused when going to familiar shapes, though!
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: MDV on August 22, 2010, 10:50:36 AM
glad you like it :)
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on August 22, 2010, 02:08:49 PM
I took off the electric power lines and Stuck some 10-46 + a 56 on it and tuned it to Eb - much prefer it that way  8)
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: MDV on August 22, 2010, 02:52:16 PM
:lol:

I suppose 15-70 in G is an aquired taste
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on August 22, 2010, 04:48:11 PM
I know this sounds a bit melodramatic after only a few hours play but having a 7 has been a $%&#ing revelation... it feels more comfortable than a 6 and sounds awesome... why haven't I tried one until now! Other than sometimes forgetting that the E isn't the low string anymore it's been no problem to swap.
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: MDV on August 22, 2010, 04:56:56 PM
I didnt find the transition a trouble either

I just found that I wasnt writing any better or more interesting music on 7 strings than 6
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on August 22, 2010, 05:32:44 PM
I guess if you already tune as low as B then it's not as big a deal but as I live in std or Eb the lower register has a lot of novelty
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Keven on August 22, 2010, 05:38:19 PM
out of curiosity, what did you end up buying?
Title: Re: Adjusting to a 7 string?
Post by: Lew on August 22, 2010, 05:43:49 PM
MDVs old RG7321 - not a 'killer' guitar but a great introduction into 7's and it will tide me over whilst I have a decent 7 built :)