Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: ManInTheBox on July 05, 2010, 11:37:11 AM
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Hello fellow guitarists! I own a Fender Road Worn Telecaster which has 2 single coils in it. Latley I've started playing more and more "Djent" type of music and I am in need of new pickups. Now to my questions, is it possible to replace my weak single coils for lets say, a BKP Cold Sweat Humbucker in the bridge? How do I make it fit? :) Which size and such do I need to order? What do I need to know?
I've been playing guitar for many years but haven't really learned anything about its mechanics and such, I know nothing about replacing pickups and such. The reason why I want to play this type of music on a Telecaster is becuase I love, absolotley love the feel of it.
Many thanks in advance!
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painkillers have massive attack, and are ideal for djent
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painkillers have massive attack, and are ideal for djent
Yeah I've heard they're great! But I need to know how to put in those large buckers in my Telecaster, I have no idea how, or if they will fit. I am ready to place an order but I need to get as much information as I can get so I don't sit here with a pair of humbuckers that I can't put in my guitar :)
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Aahh...
Yes, possible, but I think it will be quite a big job:
- The body will need to be cut to fit humbuckers
- The scratchplate will need cutting/replacing to fit a neck humbucker
- The bridge plate will need replacing with one that fits a bridge humbucker
- You'll probably want to replace the volume and tone control potentiometers and the tone capacitor to suite humbuckers
Sounds to me like you might need a trusted luthier/guitar-tech to do it for you.
I have to admit, my first thought was "DON'T DO THAT to a Roadworn!!!! ... give it to me, I'll give you a geetar to hack and buy you the painkillers..." :lol:
But then I realised you love the feel of this particular tele. I have two of the strats - I know exactly what you mean - so I won't say "don't" or "can't" about it at all...
Welcome to the forum :D
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http://www.mansons.co.uk/shopping/categories/manson-pickups/manson/mbk-3-guitar-pickup-set/ this might be the thing you're looking for
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I have no idea how, or if they will fit.
Frankly, that's a terrible thing to try and do to your guitar - and any commendable luthier would flat-out decline the work. Depending on how seriously you want humbuckers, i would recommend buying a different road-worn telecaster, one already fitted for humbuckers.
The factory humbuckers (in the 72' deluxe tele) are a different size and won't immediately accommodate standard humbuckers, but that option is only a custom pickguard away (plenty of custom manufacturers produce them for under $50, it's just a google search away). I know this because i've done it.
Also, if you are decide to buy new and like the Cold Sweats, look into a rosewood fretboard instead of maple. I'm sure alot of more senior forum members would agree that a bright, maple neck with a bright pickup like the CS would make for quite a shrill tone overall. Anyways, just some suggestions...good luck.
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I've installed a humbucker in the bridge of my tele. I bought a Gotoh bridge with a humbucker hole and attacked my mexican tele with a hand drill. Not elegant, neat or easy to do, but it worked (albeit looks like it was done with a rusty spoon). Get a proper person to do it if you don't want to bodge, or get a Piledriver, that's plenty Djent.
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^ ^ - i rest my case
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rape caught on video -
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=eFhOyMbfOnE
tears.
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^ wouldn't want to be overly melodramatic now would we :? - Seems pretty sweet to me - It's not vintage!
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Hey, anyone has full prerogative to butcher something they're in ownership of - it's just an opinion, and a suggested course of logic. You don't buy a honda just to put a V8 in it; but is it possible... sure.
If you find a guy to do this clean of work, maybe try it (i saw that he didn't drill holes on the pickguard, so height adjustment for the pickup means taking off the guard). I know from living in Nashville and being friends with plenty of well-renown luthiers, if they did touch a job like this, they'd say something like "i'll do it, but will not claim acknowledgement for the work" - this meaning "don't tell anyone i did this hack-and-slash job", haha.
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:lol: funny how this thread's gone...
badger, you rapist :lol: :wink: ... I thought of you when I first answered. I also thought of me... I put a humbucker in the neck of a squier tele years ago... with a chisel... it worked, but it wasn't pretty underneath the scratchplate :lol:
I've also watched the vid gepetto's linked - a bit scary how the bloke did his routing, especially the scratchplate, but a lot more organised than I did it. Seems to have come out alright, sounds fantastic as well (I think we have several folks on here with a Piledriver/MQ combo in a tele actually). And actually, by the way, height adjustment for a standard tele neck pickup means taking the guard off - the bloke would've known that, he owns the thing, so I suspect he wanted to retain the clean lines and kept the screws under the plate.
After trying the humbucker in the neck myself, must be at least 15 years ago, it's really not something I want to do personally, I like my teles to do the "trad" thing.
BUT...
ManInTheBox:
What you want to do is NOT a bad idea :D - you've got a good player that you want to make even better, to make the sounds you want. Make sure it IS what you want, because taking the wood out will change its tone slightly and is not easily reversed. I wouldn't have thought the change in tone would be huge though - especially when compared to the change you'll get by putting humbuckers in.
But, can you do it yourself? Watch that vid - it's not actually that difficult, it's not rocket science. But it sounds to me like you might be better getting a luthier to do it at the moment (or maybe you've got woodworking skills but not a lot of knowledge about what's under the bonnet of a guitar - if so, you can do it, there's enough knowledge/experience on this and other forums to help you through the ordering parts and wiring...)
Anyway, loads of luthiers would be happy to do the work - I have to disagree with gepetto there, he must be experiencing guys that I wouldn't want to deal with so much... (if their heart's not in the job you specify, then they will do poor work).
Not sure where you're based ManInTheBox, but I know at least two luthiers in the UK, one of whom has done work for me, who I am surewould be happy to do the job for you if that's what you wanted. They'd put the same care and attention into it as they would the rest of their work, and they'd be very happy for you to tell people that they did the job.
So, possible? YES.
Good idea? Quite possibly, yes.
Would I do it? No, not me, but that's cos I don't want humbuckers in my teles - not because I think guitars are sacred (I've just happily stripped the finish off a 2 year old Gibson because it was pants - one could have argued that I should have sold it and got a Faded if I could find one. But I liked this particular Gibson, it's just the finish that was pants. As it happens, it turned out quite well, but it was quite a risk!)
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Wow, this forum is great! So much help already :). Thank you all for the answers.
The whole idea I had was to replace the single coils with buckers to save some money instead of buying a whole new guitar. I've never really liked the feel of ESPs, Ibanez and such, and I've played a few. Plus it would be kinda cool to convert the Telecaster to a Monstercaster. People would think "Oh he's gonna play some smoothe blues" when they see my guitar, but no I'd blow em away with my A tuned Monstercaster plugged into a Mesa.
From what I've read here it seems to be a huge problem to fit the buckers so I might get a Pilvedriver in the bridge and then buy a new better suited guitar and get the buckers in that one instead.
Anyone know of any other Tele's that might do the job? I once saw this beautiful 7-stringed ESP Telecaster, but it was custom made and would cost a fortune :/.
Thanks again for the warm welcome and great answers!
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Man... there is no shortage of Tele's with humbuckers, just check Fender's homepage. I know they do a Custom Roadworn Telecaster Deluxe with the 2 humbuckers, or you could just go with the HH series. This is the one i play on -
http://www.fender.com/uk/products/search.php?partno=0262600521
Splated maple top, mahogany body and neck, coil tap, neck-through with a 15.75" radius (neck feels like a jackson)...
...And some cr@ppy Seymour Duncan pickups you can happily change out for Bare Knuckles. There's plenty of variations on this HH model, and along with the 72' Deluxe series you should have no trouble picking out a humbucker tele that suits your taste and style.
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rape caught on video -
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=eFhOyMbfOnE
tears.
I think he did a pretty good job - very impressive freehand routing skills!
Me, I wouldn't hesitate to rout a Highway 1, but I wouldn't do it like that.... and I would NEVER sit with a powered-up router clutched between my thighs six inches from my bollocks. I may not need 'em much, but I'd rather keep 'em.... :x
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rape caught on video -
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=eFhOyMbfOnE
tears.
I think he did a pretty good job - very impressive freehand routing skills!
Me, I wouldn't hesitate to rout a Highway 1, but I wouldn't do it like that.... and I would NEVER sit with a powered-up router clutched between my thighs six inches from my bollocks. I may not need 'em much, but I'd rather keep 'em.... :x
:lol: :lol:
Perhaps he was wearing a box (UK cricketing term - I think it's called a cup in the US?).
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Routing skill or not - sounds pretty damn sweet to me!
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Buy a tele with HB's and put PK's in them.
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I would say, check out the Piledriver or buy a Tele with buckers. Another option is to install Blackguards and get yourself an fat and dynamic tubeamp, like the Orange Rockerverb. They work better with singlecoils than with humbuckers, is my experience.
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Maybe a Jim Root tele would be something for you. It has active EMG pickups, but they can always be switched along with the pots and caps to a set of BKPs.
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0134444706
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Dear God, it's just a Road Worn. Mexican Strats and Teles manufactured with improper bridge alignment, every one of them has the strings falling off the treble side of the neck up at the top.
Yeah, they feel great but need different pickups and a good setup, and the import bridges are really terrible.
The suggestion has already been made and I would wholeheartedly agree.
Replace the bridge with a Gotoh modern humbucker Tele and throw a Nailbomb in there.
Replace the neck pup with a hot single coil.
Done, and you've improved the guitar x1000.
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I'm 100% with Copperhead!
It is not such a big deal at all. :?
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Dear God, it's just a Road Worn. Mexican Strats and Teles manufactured with improper bridge alignment, every one of them has the strings falling off the treble side of the neck up at the top.
Well, I have two RW strats, and they don't have strings falling off the treble side (I did have to reseat one of the necks, but for different reasons) ... nor did any of the RW teles I've tried have this problem... so, er, quite not every one of them :D
They do indeed need some setting up, but no less than all the other guitars I've bought in the last couple of years.
But, other than that - I'm fully in agreement, Copperhead, and it's exactly what I thought at the start of this thread: as much as I love this range myself, "it is just a Road Worn" :lol:
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I'm 110% with AndyR.... (because of his experience and love for the series)
It is a Road Worn not an original Nocaster.
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Dear God, it's just a Road Worn. Mexican Strats and Teles manufactured with improper bridge alignment, every one of them has the strings falling off the treble side of the neck up at the top.
Are you saying the neck needs proper alignment in its pocket (a setup tweak), or that the bridge is actually fitted in the wrong place? Surely with Fender's production facilities and use of CNC the latter shouldn't be happening?
It may be "just" a Road Worn, but even on a £130 Squier I'd expect the bridge to be in the right place. :?
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OK, to be fair, the Strats I've seen are worse than the Teles, and I've handled dozens of them in the Phoenix area.
ALL the Mexico imports use the import bridges which are a different spacing than the USA Strats and Teles.
My theory is that they are using the old 50's neck and body profiles but goofed on compensating for the import bridge.
Are the saddles on the bridge off center? Is the whole bridge pushed to one side of the toolpath on the CNC layout and NOT centered?
I don't know, haven't disassembled one and measured the drill holes.
Hopefully this was just on the first couple of runs and they've sorted it out since.
We do usually get first run stuff quickly here, Fender HQ is in Scottsdale.
Anyways, my point is, it's not a Custom Shop or a real Nocaster or anything.
It's Mexico Tele. They are hit and miss. I've got an awesome Mexico Deluxe Players Strat.
To make it truly legendary, it needs what ALL Mexico Strats/Teles need.
Throw away the cruddy import bridge, caps, pups, other assorted hardware.
Put in some BK's and a proper bridge.
This would fix any alignment problems.
On the ones I've played, some worse than others, on about 17-18 and up, the high E string comes down right on the edge of the finished fret end and has a pronounced tendency to fall right off the fret board.
Here are some random large images from stores etc, that I just quickly posted from a general image search.
The weird thing is I've not seen this on the other Mexico models, just the Road Worns.
(http://www.americansongwriter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fender-electric-guitars-road-worn-50s-stratocaster1.jpg)
(http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/2008626/p1_up1fdzpes_so.jpg)
(http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/2005966/p2_upulzv114_so.jpg)
(http://img204.imageshack.us/f/dsc00048vhg.jpg/)
(http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/61373_l.jpg)
OK!!! NOW....
Here's a nice USA picture that someone posted and I copied to my photobucket.
It's got the USA bridge on it, the vintage-y radius and fret wire.
BUT - look at the string spacing and how the strings align at the top.
Just enough on the bass side, just like the Road Worns.... HOWEVER -
The important thing is that there is tons of room on the treble side for vibrato etc, and there's no way you're going to accidentally pull off the neck!
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb76/guitarzan_1/Gear/33MAR42008004.jpg)
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OK - Just found this:
Fender made from 1954 - 1969
2 7/32 string spacing
American Reissue Strat or
Highway 1 Strat (up to & including year 2005) or
Custom Shop Relic or
WD exact vintage or
Stewart MacDonald vintage or
Jimmie Vaughan Strat or
Eric Johnson Strat
2 7/32 string spacing
Made in Japan Reissue Strat
Note: Japanese reissues have varying tolerances through the years. Also check for 2 7/32 string spacing.
Left-handed Vintage or
Stevie Ray Vaughan Strat (SRV)
2 7/32 string spacing
Made in Mexico Classic (50's,60's,70's) or
Mexican Gold Plated Deluxe
6-pivot bridge
2 7/32 string spacing
Made in Mexico Standard Series Strat
6-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
Made in Mexico Classic Player Strat
2-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
Highway 1 Strat (2006 and later)
6-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
2 7/32 mounting spacing
American Standard Strat or
American Series Strat or Strat Plus
2-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
American Deluxe Series Strat or
Strat Ultra
2-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
Made in Korea Lite Ash Strat
2-pivot bridge
2 1/16 string spacing.
SO the Road Worn Strats have 2 7/32" spacing and are not aligned the best...
The other Mexico Strats, (6 screw) and the American modern 2 point are 2 1/16".
Now I gotta search and see what they did to the Teles...
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OK, thanks for that, I see what you mean. :)
I think it is a string spacing issue, but I don't think it's due to "import" hardware, although the hardware isn't as good quality as the US hardware.
The Road Worns (and US vintage/reissues etc) use the US vintage spacing at the bridge of 2-7/32" (56mm) which always left one or both of the outer strings pretty close to the fingerboard edges, especially when the neck alignment needs a tweak.
The American Standards (and newer Highway Ones, and MIM Standards) have 2-1/16 (52.5mm) string spacing at the bridge so the outer strings sit further in from the fingerboard edges.
(The reason I was concerned about this is that I'm thinking of buying a Road Worn. :wink: )
(Edit: Ah, you posted again with that spacing info and made my post redundant - I was replying to the post with the pictures! :lol: )
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K - The vintage saddle Teles are 2-3/16" and the modern saddle are 2-1/8".
Not as huge as a difference as the Strats, but this follows what I felt when playing them, "...the Strats I've seen are worse than the Teles..."
I've copied two pictures from the Fender website so you can see what I'm talking about.
So I stand by my original assertion in saying that you can only improve a Road Worn by swapping pups and bridges, and that you shouldn't needlessly worry about depreciating the value as it is "only" an import model, not a Custom Shop or original vintage piece.
Look closely at where the high E aligns at the end of the fretboard.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb76/guitarzan_1/Gear/21875.jpg)
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb76/guitarzan_1/Gear/21250.jpg)
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(Edit: Ah, you posted again with that spacing info and made my post redundant - I was replying to the post with the pictures! :lol: )
Ah - sorry, just trying to get the facts!
I do love the aging treatment to the necks, but they just didn't feel "right" when soloing...
As I started examining them closely, I was startled to notice every one I've seen in person had the High E string right on the edge, and more room on the bass side.
Hopefully today I've been able to quantify why that is so, and hopefully Fender will push the bridge over a little to the bass side or go with a different spacing on future runs.
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SO I did not watch the freehand router video, but I don't believe there is any need to freehand when opening up the rout for a humbucker.
I suggest:
1) Disassemble guitar.
2) Make sure the neck is seated really good in the pocket, I mean remove the neck bolts and tap it in there good, push on it, whatever you have to do. If you have to relieve the holes in the body a tiny bit, do it. Bolt in tight.
3) Take your Gotoh 2-1/8" modern Tele HB bridge and locate it on the body using the two E strings as your guide for string alignment. :D
If you have to patch and re-drill holes that are close but wrong :lol: do it!
Mark the pup mount screw holes.
4) Remove the bridge and drill the pup mount holes on your drill press.
5) Strip the bridge and put it back on. Employing a small profile trim router and a 1/4" pattern bit, use the bridge itself as your routing pattern. Go very slow, this will be a fairly deep cut to start, but at least you're not plunge cutting as there is a big hole there already...
6) Remove the bridge and using a straight guide and a plain 1/4" cutter open up the drill holes to accommodate the pup legs.
Ta-da! No freehand necessary! Neat and clean.
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Ah! (Copperhead, Philly) It makes some sense to me now... I Just skim-read, and then re-read the posts above... At first I was looking at the pictures posted thinking "yeah, that's normal - what's the problem?". One of the strats looked like I might loosen and re-align the neck, but the others looked acceptable to me... but it would all depend on how it played in my hands.
But, yep, Copperhead, I think you would probably "fall off" all of my strats :lol:
I deliberately (originally it was subconscious) go for 2 7/32" string spacing on strats - the "modern" one just doesn't feel right to me. When buying I automatically reject guitars with the "narrow" saddles (eg the Squier Classic Vibes, as well as skinny necks, had the thin saddles when I tried them, so I guess the narrower string spacing). It might also explain why I rejected Highway 1s a few years back? Not sure... (the extra fret had something to do with it as well).
All of my strats, even the non-Road Worns, are 50s or 60s re-issues/copies/tributes - I expect them to have 50s/60s bridges on them. I know that the later designs might be easier to do certain stuff, but I "grew up" on the older versions and it's easy to play the stuff I want to play. Once you've got used to it and learnt how to tweak the neck to do what you want, for some daft reason you'd rather have the old version!
So, if Fender did go for "narrower" spacing on future runs of the Road Worn 50s/60s strats, to "fix" the perceived problem... then me and all the members of the "I want six-screw, 2 7/32" US vintage" club will moan horribly that they've "f**cked" it, condemn them on user forums, and not buy anymore!! Poor b@stards, they can't win, can they?! :lol:
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I deliberately (originally it was subconscious) go for 2 7/32" string spacing on strats - the "modern" one just doesn't feel right to me. When buying I automatically reject guitars with the "narrow" saddles (eg the Squier Classic Vibes, as well as skinny necks, had the thin saddles when I tried them, so I guess the narrower string spacing). It might also explain why I rejected Highway 1s a few years back? Not sure... (the extra fret had something to do with it as well).
Ah, that pesky extra fret! :lol:
No, fair play, horses for courses. I prefer the "modern" features like flatter radius, bigger frets and narrower string spacing, if they're available on the model I want. If they aren't, I can live with the wide spacing (but not the teeny frets).
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LOL!!!
My preferences are 22 frets, 1-11/16 nut, jumbo frets and a large straight radius, I detest compounds..
I love the feel of my Mexican Players though, jumbo frets, but I'm always reaching for the fret that's not there!
The Road Worn necks do feel awesome in the hand though. I think part of my falling off experience may be because of the extra finishing of the frets as well.
No foul by me though, I would indeed replace the bridge and pups to my liking in a heart beat.
There are some great deals to be had on these.
I'm waiting for my local shop to get in a 72 Deluxe Tele, that may be the one that will push me over!
(http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/2309696/p2_uqwwlnbcc_so.jpg)
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I think it might be either that one or the other new tele model that young Philly has his sights on :D
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Maybe. :wink:
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Q: Has anyone put pickup rings and some proper humbuckers on one of these? Will that work?
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I've seen a picture of one with a regular humbucker in the bridge position - it looked like the mounting ring covered the oversized hole left by the Fender pickup.
But I'd probably get a new scratchplate if I was going to change the pickups. I do love the look of the Fender pickups though.
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Turns out these were a one run for sale to dealers at NAMM...
My guy is a huge Fender dealer, but knows the Fender guys so well they were umm... "celebrating" at NAMM in the meeting rooms at Fender and totally missed the pitch on these.
SO now he's a little aggravated and called Fender while I was there yesterday and told them to find him some... :D
Possibility they may transfer unsold units from another dealer in CA, but I guess these were real popular so we'll have to see.
I've got some thin profile brass chrome plated rings, gotta have a NB and MQ in there!
Gotoh has a 2-1/16" hardtail with these style saddles.
Then I'll have to figure out where I can hide it from Mrs. Copperhead :lol:
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I see no problem or issue with making that mod - especially to a late 2000s fender which isn't likely to have that vintage value in our lifetimes
As it's not a a vintage piece and if doing that will make you love it and play it to death, then I'd say it's worth it
Take it to a luthier who uses a bench and jigs and is organised and plans ahead what they are doing
You'll be changing the bridge plate , so find one that has the right opening and will fit just right
The neck humbucker will work easily due to being in a pickguard.
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I think it might be either that one or the other new tele model that young Philly has his sights on :D
the Jim Root tele?
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I think it might be either that one or the other new tele model that young Philly has his sights on :D
the Jim Root tele?
No, there are two "new" Roadworn teles - but there seems to be some doubt as to whether they're actually available now.
A 72 deluxe and a 72 custom.
When he started telling me about new roadworns, I started getting excited thinking strats - but it's just teles at the moment.
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I think it might be either that one or the other new tele model that young Philly has his sights on :D
the Jim Root tele?
No, there are two "new" Roadworn teles - but there seems to be some doubt as to whether they're actually available now.
A 72 deluxe and a 72 custom.
When he started telling me about new roadworns, I started getting excited thinking strats - but it's just teles at the moment.
:lol:
the jim root comment was meant as a sort of deadpan joke ;)
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I think it might be either that one or the other new tele model that young Philly has his sights on :D
the Jim Root tele?
No, there are two "new" Roadworn teles - but there seems to be some doubt as to whether they're actually available now.
A 72 deluxe and a 72 custom.
When he started telling me about new roadworns, I started getting excited thinking strats - but it's just teles at the moment.
:lol:
the jim root comment was meant as a sort of deadpan joke ;)
I realised! :lol: But believe it or not, I really like the look of the Jim Root Tele. If it had a bigger neck I might buy one.
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Ah! That was right over my head until Philly replied :lol: