Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Nadz1lla on August 17, 2010, 04:40:24 PM
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Truly, truly awful front
man boy, and I hate that whole emo look, but...
Today I heard Chelsea Smile, and by the gods! Their Guitar tone is massive! The axemen are definitely doing something right. I may have to do the unthinkable and actually buy one of their albums, because those boys have definitely got the riffs!
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Fredrik Nordström recorded it, that'll be why is my guess.
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but cant play live to save their lives!! Stupidly over-produced and over hyped with abysmal, vague, overly long song titles. They were essentially the start to this whole scene...
Everyone who is a part of it is essentially a Pop Punk kid who is desperately trying to be 'br00talz'. The estate I live on is full of gobshiteee kids who think they are the be all and end-all of metal just because they listen to BMTH and own a Cannibal Corpse hoody, sport shitee, meaningless sleeve tattoo's and listen to awful, awful Deathcore. Music which is breakdown after breakdown and serves absolutely no purpose other than for people to pose.
Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.
I'm more 'metal' than that whole scene put together!
Give me razor sharp punk/hardcore anyday.
</Rant over>
Paddy
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It's alright, Rising Records will have signed (and financially ruined) them all in a couple years.
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Aye. Shame they did it to Mendeed, they were a class band.
Paddy
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but cant play live to save their lives!! Stupidly over-produced and over hyped with abysmal, vague, overly long song titles. They were essentially the start to this whole scene...
Everyone who is a part of it is essentially a Pop Punk kid who is desperately trying to be 'br00talz'. The estate I live on is full of gobshiteeee kids who think they are the be all and end-all of metal just because they listen to BMTH and own a Cannibal Corpse hoody, sport shiteee, meaningless sleeve tattoo's and listen to awful, awful Deathcore. Music which is breakdown after breakdown and serves absolutely no purpose other than for people to pose.
Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.
I'm more 'metal' than that whole scene put together!
Give me razor sharp punk/hardcore anyday.
</Rant over>
Paddy
this +1 except the Mendeed bit because I can't stand them.
These deathcore kids are nothing more than the drugged up hair sprayed 80's metal morons that made hair metal such a joke.
It'll die off soon and then they'll realise how bad their tattoo's are.
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I hope so, hehe. Their tattoos are truly awful. It's like they wandered into the cheapest parlour in Backwatersville and chose everything on the generic design sheets and said "Give me all of them, really close together, up to my chin!"
Nasty, nasty stuff.
But I still love that Guitar sound, hehe.
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To be fair, I think the singer from BMTH gets tattooed by Diego at MVL and a lot of his stuff is very good.
Some of the copyists, however...
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Truly, truly awful front man boy, and I hate that whole emo look, but...
Today I heard Chelsea Smile, and by the gods! Their Guitar tone is massive! The audio engineer/producer are definitely doing something right. I may have to do the unthinkable and actually buy one of their albums, because those boys have definitely got the riffs!
Fixed!
As I understand it Nordstroms default technique is 2 SM57s, one dead on the centre of the speaker (horrible sound) and one more or less right next to it, off axis about 45 degrees; the dead centre gives attack (far too much of it) and the off axis gives a smoother sound and the phase difference and comb filtering between the two is used to emphasise desired low and mid frequencies and smooth out papery and shitety top end freqs to get a sound that, when placed in a mix, is big and powerfull, with enough attack but a smooth high end.
Just so you know.
I really must try it some time.
This was used with the haunted for their sound and, while I dont know if it was for BMTH, it certainly sounds like it could have been; similar sort of sound.
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Interesting, if I ever have enough mics I'll try that! :)
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Hmm speaking of bring me the horizon theres a thing on myspace for people to support them
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=9642476&blogId=538309094
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Vocalist from dirty money kicked a tooth out of the bmth vocalists mouth... true story
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Please tell me it was intentional
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well 6 years ago, BMTH used to play hardcore shows in leeds, manc, liverpool... with Dead & Gone Records roster of bands (and others) that existed in the same period, plus some touring hardcore bands that at the time played small shows. like i remember paying £4 to see The Nothing, BMTH, Send More Paramedics in liverpool. and I saw BMTH open a show in manc with 50 On Red, Damage Control from Norway, The First Step blah blah blah. Kids hated them even then... but some people (like our singer) kind of new those guys or genuinely liked their stuff or elements of it.
I think at one show i was at, some hair extensions fell out on stage... so rumour has it. Our singer was at a show where BMTH played and they put out a 'mosh call'. Our singer moshed and kicked out Oli Sykes tooth.
The bassist from Dirty Money/singer in the new band im in, and a bunch of my friends used to be in The Break In, who did a tour with BMTH around the UK, playing london astoria and such. They said the BMTH dudes didn't pretend to be tough or metal or whatever, they just do what they do and people have had beef with that ever since they started.
I had a meeting about DM becoming involved with visible noise records once, where I think this story came up. However, for various reasons we chose not to pursue that route.
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but cant play live to save their lives!! Stupidly over-produced and over hyped with abysmal, vague, overly long song titles. They were essentially the start to this whole scene...
Everyone who is a part of it is essentially a Pop Punk kid who is desperately trying to be 'br00talz'. The estate I live on is full of gobshiteeeee kids who think they are the be all and end-all of metal just because they listen to BMTH and own a Cannibal Corpse hoody, sport shiteeee, meaningless sleeve tattoo's and listen to awful, awful Deathcore. Music which is breakdown after breakdown and serves absolutely no purpose other than for people to pose.
Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.
I'm more 'metal' than that whole scene put together!
Give me razor sharp punk/hardcore anyday.
</Rant over>
Paddy
It's good to read this. Glad I'm not alone 8)
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Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.
Yeah. These folks irk me something rotten. Everything is progressive/technical/polyrhythmic when they mean, there are some sweeps and we all really, really want to suck of Meshuggah. Recently someone described a band as New Wave of British Progressive Metal and I near pissed myself.
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I hope so, hehe. Their tattoos are truly awful. It's like they wandered into the cheapest parlour in Backwatersville and chose everything on the generic design sheets and said "Give me all of them, really close together, up to my chin!"
i had to google the fella, but i would say the tattoo's are not badly done but badly chosen and positioned. but then i do love tradtional tattoo designs, even though i have so far avoided them for myself i still go for the boldness of that style
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Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.
Yeah. These folks irk me something rotten. Everything is progressive/technical/polyrhythmic when they mean, there are some sweeps and we all really, really want to suck of Meshuggah. Recently someone described a band as New Wave of British Progressive Metal and I near pissed myself.
Edit - I believe thats nolly from red seas fire. Talented chap to be sure, but I share the sentiment.
Its a fine line, though.
I enjoy a lot of metal thats technical. I'm not sure what 'technical _whatever_ metal' is, nor 'progressive' (progressing toward what? The 70s?) but there are many bands around that I call Try Too Hard Core. I cant really pin down what it is about the music that crosses over from metal thats technical and rightly $%&#ing so to what sounds like whiny little brats trying to compensate for some inadequacy, but here are some examples.
Metal thats technical and rightly $%&#ing so. Makes my head spin and I want to run round the walls listening to it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMW0aHN0ks
Try Too Hardcore. Bores the shitee out of me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OspGO0YVeRI
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I really like 'Fortress' by Protest The Hero and I think it lives on that 'fine line'. For me nobody comes close to Devin Townsend. Especially from a production point of view - there's nobody is in the same galaxy. If technique is being used for any other reason than to serve the execution of something it usually ends up shiteeee imo.
Mark, the band in that first youtube link just sound like a joke to me, the singing is just comedic I don't find anything in it that should be taken seriously, am I wrong? I mean.. I've recorded screaming before and I'm genuinely aware of the skill and technique that goes into it but, still... ! I think that's why I love Devin, his voice is perfect. Probably why I like PTH, too.
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Origin - i like the comment 'real death metal'... i though Obituary was death metal? that doesnt sound like Obituary to me!
as far as BMTH goes, they have had people hating em since day one. I dislike other bands way more than i dislike them. they ain't even on my radar.
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To be frank, due to my trytoohardcore radar kicking in pretty quickly I struggled to think of one of the hundreds of bands that fall into it, and BTBAM, while far from the worst, were the best I could remember the name of.
I quite like Kezia, which I think was very much metal that happened to be technical, and sounded right like that. Fortress crossed into try too hardcore, for my tastes. If theres to be technicality (whatever that is, I'm sure we all have some vague impression of odd meters and various lead techniques being laced into chugging riffs) then I feel, very strongly as it happens, that it should be a natural part of the flow, vibe and progression of a song. I thought kezia did that just fine and fortress crossed over into making things needlessly complex at the expense of the songs.
Origin are $%&#ing awesome though. The James Lee is one of the few extreme vocalists I can stomach, even like, as it happens. Hes been replaced with the guy from the faceless, who I dont think has nearly the tone and hardly the tiniest fraction of the rhythmic cleverness that Lee has, so for the first time I'm quite trepident about Origins next album.
I'm not interested personally in what is or isnt 'real death metal' so I would say dont worry about it! I dont really care for any but the widest genre distinctions. Rock, blues, metal, jazz, country etc. Its just 'metal' to me. As are BTBAM and BMTH. You can keep dividing it all up into smaller and smaller boxes ad infinitum and it doesnt enhance any appreciation (or otherwise) of the music, so it seems pointless to me.
I may have to appropriate this for the above
"To avoid confusion, please assume all words above are jovial and follow the prefix "In my opinion"."
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BMTH wierdly have a new album coming out soon!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ39Nz9TmCI
thats alll i can find about it though. I bet thats gonna sound even better. The guitar sound through the whole of "count your blessings" was HORRIBLE
My band supported BMTH n liverpool once, by then their first ful length had come out and they were living up the hype. They locked themselves away from the other bands and didnt even acknowledge us, so they didnt seem to be the friendliest bunch. The show was decent tho, if u like that sort of thing
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Coming away from BMTH now, and more regarding the tech stuff, I really don't think there's anything wrong with really pushing musicianship to the extremes of the musician's ability. Being able to perform that stuff live is an art form, having to remember time changes as well as all that technical playing (which, in order to sound good, needs to be very cleanly played).
I envy anyone who can do this for one song, let alone an entire gig.
So, if you were going to name this genre of music, what would you call it? And be objective here, put your personal feelings about it aside. I can't really think of anything other than "Technical" or "Progressive", because to be honest, it doesn't get more technical than that. :?
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Oh, hell no theres nothing wrong with it, its part and parcel of music, where appropriate. I just dislike it when technicality is force-fit and doesnt serve the music.
I dont feel the need to make a distinction between 'technical' and not (any more; I have in the past, but I changed my mind). Its not like some magic line is crossed where it has to have some prefix or seperate designation to denote that its hard to play. Its all music, and demarkation of 'hard to play' from 'not hard to play' is irrelevent, ambiguous and a frankly musically bankrupt thing to do. Is paganini 'technical classical'? Al dimeola 'technical jazz'? No.
Theres no reason to make the distinction other than some misplaced bravado or ego in labelling your stuff basically 'hard, n00bs, we haz skillz and cant not use dem'.
Progressive is another matter. I really genuinely have no idea what its supposed to mean, and would like someone that indulges in it to give a clear definition.
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its like art.
taking ages to paint something so well that it looks like a photo is technically great but it doesn't mean its good art.
at the same time, putting a urinal on a plinth can blow peoples minds.
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I think that's a very good analogy. :)
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it IS art!
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Maybe I'm speaking out of line here, but all I seem to hear from people who like heavy music is how such-and-such a genre (where these distinctions come from, I neither know nor care) is cr@p and unlistenable, and how the only worthwhile X-form of metal is such-and-such a band.
Now don't get me wrong, people here are so much more educated than that, I'm speaking from my experiences of talking to people in the pub or parties. I remember this conversation with one guy who was telling me how he loved heavy music, then I told him about our upcoming gig, and he wanted to know what the vocals were like, because if it wasn't in some very tight range of categories, he'd hate it and we were just another shite band.
Honestly, I have no idea how to classify 13Gauge. Maybe we're trying too hard for Mark, maybe we're not death metal enough for Nadz, or punky enough for Dmoney. You can really worry too much about this if you listen to what people say on forums or in the pub. Frankly, I'd rather get out there and play the music I like to play with mates who share similar musical goals and ideals. If we're liked, we're liked; if we're not, then you can all f*** off. :)
I guess the crux of what I'm trying to say is that there seem to be so many more haters within the 'heavy music' scene than any other genre I know. It's - quite frankly - soul destroying for someone who wants to promote their band and put music out there.
Roo
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While I agree with you completely with this one, I don't think ANY of us here have said that they are only into one type of metal.
In terms of Metal, I love bands ranging from Iron Maiden, Entombed, Avenged Sevenfold (before they turned into Guns & Roses), Cathedral, Dillinger Escape Plan, Black Breath, Black Sabbath, Mastodon, Protest the Hero, Sunn 0))) (if you want to call it metal), Suffocation, Annotations of an Autopsy and a million and one other bands. the rest of my music collection is made up of a whole range of other stuff. I just like music. Pure, honest music. Just not stuff designed to sell to the kids.
And for people who say that they HATE a certain band or music (such as Limp Bizkit), you liars. Tell me you've never gotten drunk and had a good bounce around to 'Break Stuff' in your local rock club :D
Paddy
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it IS art!
Obviously. i should have said "other forms of text created on the understanding that they be part of another form art".
I wouldnt say everything music has artistic merit. just like I wouldnt say every doodle has artistic merit either.
i know what im getting at... in my own head. agreed though.
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I'd like to think there were more open-minded people like myself and Roo in the metal scene, but unfortunately, Roo has hit on something that irks me somewhat too. There are very, very few bands I dislike. Some bands I really like, for instance Periphery, have awesome music, but I don't like the vocals. I still bought their album, though, as I think Misha and co should still be appreciated for the bits they get right.
But what grates me are these elitists who say "This isn't metal" or "That's not true metal".
What is "True" metal? I don't believe there is an answer to that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to trace metal back to it's truest form, you'll find yourself delving into Blues and maybe even stuff before that. In essence, true metal isn't even metal...at least not as these "elitists" know it.
It's the most absurd claim there is in heavy music, and those who shun other bands for not being "true" are just the type of ignorant idiots that give the rest of us a bad image.
I certainly don't like Oli Sykes as a person, having known someone who was just sat on a bus one day, he and some of his bandmates got on and started spitting at her for no reason at all. She hadn't looked at them funny, she didn't know them, she had said nothing to them. It seems more of a case that they had a problem with her and the way she looked. Even though I have a lees than favourable view of BMTH, I would never have the audacity or arrogance to say they are not metal. Who am I to judge that?
When listening to bands, I would rather judge them on their individual merits and not let one band from a certain sub-genre put me off that genre entirely. If it's not what I like, then it is just that. I don't like them. Are they not "true" metal? Who am I to say?
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But what grates me are these elitists who say "This isn't metal" or "That's not true metal".
What is "True" metal? I don't believe there is an answer to that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to trace metal back to it's truest form, you'll find yourself delving into Blues and maybe even stuff before that. In essence, true metal isn't even metal...at least not as these "elitists" know it.
If you want the answer, listen to Manowar
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I take back my previous statements, I forgot there IS a true metal band out there. :lol:
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Just like to repeat that I wasn't having a go at anyone here in my post! :)
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Just like to repeat that I wasn't having a go at anyone here in my post! :)
We know dude, it's all good! :)
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Just like to repeat that I wasn't having a go at anyone here in my post! :)
I didn't take offence. besides, I can hear what to me, is straight up hardcore punk parts in 13Gauge.
i went back on your myspace page. its changed since i last checked it out. I remember Sinking Ships being in your top mates. DM was on the same lineup as them at a place in Trier a few years back. Shook Ones, also... great band! I think my old housemate knows those guys for some reason.
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The ironic thing is, it's either close-minded gits/old fogeys or the aforementioned scene kids who go 'dats not metulz!!!!1!!1'
Everyone else I know just gets on with it and jokes around with the phrase to wind someone else up!
Paddy
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Damn, I feel old reading this :lol:
Off the top of my head, the last new band I got into (in the sense of them, being new to me) were probably Opeth in 1996 or Arch Enemy in 1997 :lol: I'm sure there are newer bands than that whose CDs I've bought, I just can't think of one right now :lol:
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I don't care if it's 'Metal' or not... I only care that it's good (authentic).
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Authentic, as in 'real' or 'true'? ;)
Nadz, theres a very big difference between tracing the ancestry of a style or styles of music and distilling the escence of the style/s. Metal is partly derived from blues, yes, but is very much seperate from it (and seperated from it by a few musical transitional forms like rock and roll and rock).
At its basics, metal is blues + punk (the proper one that hated everything, not the polished cr@p that passes for it now) + rock + classical. Imo. But the fact that theres so much contradiction between the ethoses and sub-cultural attidutes carried within those genres (if 'classical' is a genre, which it is, but not as normally understood; I'm lumping romantic, baroque and whatever else under that label) hints at something else that defines metal: its a musical melting pot, and the only genre I can think of that draws from every other genre I can think of (and still retains its identity as some species or genus of Metal).
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Aye but that's what I'm trying to say. If someone really wanted to dissect what "true" metal is, they'd be there all day. Instead of wasting time and energy on trying to define what it is, I'd rather chuck a bunch of words into Last.FM and see what new kinds of heavy music it brings up for me. Why question things that just are? Why not just enjoy them, or look for new bands to listen to instead of going around saying "That's not tr00 enough for me, I'm not going to listen to it".
I dunno, people these days, eh? :lol:
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Theres no reason to make the distinction other than some misplaced bravado or ego in labelling your stuff basically 'hard, n00bs, we haz skillz and cant not use dem'.
That gets it in a nutshell.