Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 12:15:34 PM

Title: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 12:15:34 PM
Already posted this in players, but it seems that I hadnt twigged that players is more or less dead and I'd like to hear what people think - Ben if you want to delete the other thats cool.

This is a track I recorded and mixed for some mates.

Its not my song or me playing. Not that the playing needs any excuses or anything, the lad did well. Just making that clear.

I engineered it, though, and it was all on my gear

SLSMG + C-Bomb (all parts) -> Powerball -> V30/SM57 + Swamp thang/MD421
Reamped and blended with Pitbull CL -> Swamp thang/MD421

The two amps are roughly equal, all told.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3702469/Compass.mp3

Here is the myspace of the chaps in question. The track should be on there soon.

http://www.myspace.com/horizonshardcoreband

I'm gonna have to get a soundcloud account or something as well; it seems people dont like to download a song to hear it now. Ah well. I'm just a bit paranoid about the fine print of the EULAs of those things (gonna have to read them one day!). Anyone know of anything dastardly, like facebook-esque site having ownership and copyright for everything that you put on there?
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Roobubba on September 02, 2010, 12:26:18 PM
Having a listen now. Sounding really nice.

By way of constructive criticism about the mix:
I'm just A/Bing this against some other hardcore I have, and some metal. Is the guitar a touch high in the mix compared to vocals? Also I'm having trouble focussing on the bass - there is a bass I assume?

Aside from that, it really does sound superb. I love the character of the amps, nice and aggressive!

Cheers,

Roo

Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Roobubba on September 02, 2010, 12:52:07 PM
PS I hope that's not unfair. Be aware that our bassist as a 12-valve mesa 400+ monster, so I'm used to LOUD bass!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Thanks for the comments (including the constructive ones)

The vocals are a little low, yes. Thats a taste thing, for me and for the vocalist actually - we like upfront guitars, and I tried to blend his voice with them rather than have it sit on top. I did that with Hadleys hope (the song on the myspace) and I didnt like the results that much (and maxwell wasnt happy with his performance either), so I tried nestling it within the mix this time. I took my que for that from Origin Antithesis (one of my favourite albums), where Lee adds a lot of aggression to the tracks and is rhythmically locked in well (aggression and good rhythm are parts of maxwells style too) but hes just under the guitars, while still being intelligable and obvious.

There is bass. Rather a lot of it actually, but again, I took steps to blend it; in this case EQing and putting in a C&P of it with a fuzz VST, to give it some dirt and mix it with the guitars, and help confer a raw, aggressive vibe to the sound.

I'm not totally happy with the guitar tones, and in the drums the snare, and toms especially stand out as being non-optimal and rubbish, respectively, but time was a factor. Thems some gay toms. I have a few things I can try to bring out some nice rolling thunder tone in them though. I'm recording these fellas properly (these are demos/practice runs) in a month or two at a local studio so I'll sort that then/by then.
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Twinfan on September 02, 2010, 01:09:06 PM
I'm with Roo, I think the guitar is way too high up in the mix.  There's no thudding drums or bass, it's all guitar.  As result it loses all the low end 'punch' to my ears.

Personally, I'd back the guitars down and bring the bass drum, bass guitar and vocals up.
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Roobubba on September 02, 2010, 02:20:53 PM
I'm with Roo, I think the guitar is way too high up in the mix.  There's no thudding drums or bass, it's all guitar.  As result it loses all the low end 'punch' to my ears.

Personally, I'd back the guitars down and bring the bass drum, bass guitar and vocals up.

Except I didn't say it in such a direct way :D

Fair enough, Mark - for a demo/trial run, that's sounding really good indeed! You've obviously got your eye (ears) on the bits you want to tinker with. I'm sure they'll be happy with the final result.

Roo
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 02:25:28 PM
Thanks for the input fellas. I shall consider your comments.

I can hear all the above just fine on what I'm mixing and referencing on, as it happens. Which gives me other ideas - I may not be referencing very sensibly (mixing on adams, with a sub, the bass and kick are loud, and referencing on my B&Ws they are clear and present).

Now, if I can figure out how to make one, I'm gonna post a poll!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Roobubba on September 02, 2010, 02:34:55 PM
FWIW I'm listening on a pair of Shure SE-420s (the dual driver in-ear phones). On these 'phones, the bass is usually moderate (in absolute terms: not strong like a quality set of cans or moderate-to-high-end amp and speakers), but usually there in good quantity and quality. That's why I mentioned it above, if I was listening on my old headphones I wouldn't have expected to hear much bass!

Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Twinfan on September 02, 2010, 03:11:45 PM
Earplugs into my work laptop this end.

And Mark did ask for comments  ;)
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 03:13:38 PM
I did, and they're welcome
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
The bassist just told me he 'Really liked how you mixed the bass'

I suppose you cant please everyone.

I'm still going to see if I can improve matters though.
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: adamj on September 02, 2010, 09:42:26 PM
sounds like the band parkway drive? (im listening on laptop speakers btw) sounds well good!!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 02, 2010, 10:09:13 PM
Ah, yes, I think they like them. Not really my thing.

Anyway, cheers!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Roobubba on September 03, 2010, 09:27:12 AM
Oh dear, look what I started :(
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Dr. Stein on September 03, 2010, 06:48:37 PM
The guitars definitely sound great on this, really professional sounding.

Vocals is a tricky one, in parts it works really well having them in the mix rather than on top of it, if you get me, but there are a few parts where they're just too quiet. Not my type of vocalist at all though, so my opinion there is definitely biased.

The drums are a bit sketchy, as you say, but in my (limited) experience drums are a really, really tough thing to get right unless you're on a blank cheque budget.

I found the bass end a bit low too, cranked my sub up a notch though and it worked really well - sometimes I find it's a compromise between how much booming I can live with and how much bass I want to hear. On this though, the bass was perfectly clear, just a bit quiet.
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Lew on September 03, 2010, 07:13:52 PM
other than the mix that others have mentioned. I'd suggest getting the phasing sorted, especially in the intro :-)
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: nfe on September 03, 2010, 10:44:18 PM
Only getting a listen to this now.

I don't have the issue with where the vocals sit that other people have mentioned. I think they sit fine there, and frankly, I don't think he's a very strong singer, and him being louder than he needs to be would take away from the song. Also, the vocals sit where they would in most songs of this style.

I think overall the mix is too clean for my tastes, it's all a bit shiny, but that's exactly what's appropriate for this death-core-ish stuff.
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 03, 2010, 10:47:20 PM
HAHA!

Awesome

Siny.

Clean.

And I was going for raw, with the current trend of ultra-clean polished mechanical, all-the-bandmembers-will-be-replaced-by-robots-in-10-years trend thats about now I try to avoid 'clean'! I dont really like it, I like songs to have edge and life that require imperfection and dirt.

thanks though. I think. :lol:
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: nfe on September 03, 2010, 10:55:18 PM
Clean and shiny are relative terms I suppose  :lol:

Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 03, 2010, 11:06:41 PM
Evidently!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: HTH AMPS on September 04, 2010, 05:23:50 PM
I'd say the vocals sit in the mix fine - I like vocals to be a little low and the guitars way upfront.

I would like more of the bass though and for the the kick drum to punch a bit more in the low end.  Its more of an EQ issue than levels though imo.

I wouldn't call it raw either, but then again Mark knows some of the shite I like  :lol:
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: Philly Q on September 04, 2010, 06:15:49 PM
I knew this wasn't going to be my type of music, but after reading the thread I was curious, so I've had a listen (on my PC, through headphones  :wink: ).

For what it's worth, it sounds good to me!  I see what people mean about where the vocals sit in the mix, but they come through quite clearly actually (I could even understand some words!).  And I like the bass sound! 

I do agree that it doesn't sound particularly raw, which might worry you since that's coming from someone who listens to Wishbone Ash, Kansas and Winger.....

Overall, I actually liked that.  So you should probably scr@p it.  :P
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: MDV on September 04, 2010, 10:05:22 PM
:lol:

Right, thats it, I'm tearing the mix down and starting again!
Title: Re: Recording 'Horizons' with a powerball and pitbull CL at the same time
Post by: JDC on September 05, 2010, 03:02:57 AM
Didn't get round to posting until now, guitars sound good to me, as already said more bass (and/or compression.) How is the bass guitar recorded? I was reading something the other week about blending clean and dirty bass together, not a clue how common that is or what is common practice though.

Currently love the bass on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMHvveTdhEQ