Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: fatbob on December 16, 2005, 09:18:55 AM

Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: fatbob on December 16, 2005, 09:18:55 AM
was just browsing HC forum and seen this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/44026/video UNREAL OR WHAT!
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: willo on December 16, 2005, 10:09:29 AM
cool link, but I gotta say, i really dislike that guy's playing. To me, that kind of playing is becoming more and more irrelevant, sure it's technically impressive but there is NO MELODY...just descending and ascending through scales and playing cliche licks at fast speeds completely fails to impress me these days. It also serves as a reminder that technique does not equal good music..."Chit San Maung, from Myanmar" evidently has more chops than your average guitarist, but could he actually make a piece of music that is anything other than a vehicle for tireless widdling?
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Peterku on December 16, 2005, 10:26:52 AM
Quote from: willo
sure it's technically impressive but there is NO MELODY...just descending and ascending through scales and playing cliche licks at fast speeds completely fails to impress me these days.

...Have you seen the entire clip? I think there are lots of nice melodies and harmonies in there, especially in the second part, you just have to hear them. The only thing I don't like about the guy is the "I am a guitar god" attitude on stage, with all those gestures and movements. But that's the same with most "star" rock guitarists.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: willo on December 16, 2005, 12:04:21 PM
meh...I watched the first half then lost interest with it.

I just watched it again.

That song he plays by tapping when the guitar is on the guys head...what is that melody? It sounds like a Celine Dion song or something? I can't remember which one, but it defintely sounds a lot like something else.

Anyway, no, I still don't care for this at all. I can appreciate the guys technique, but it feels very much like music driven by ego rather than any sense of 'soul'.

And don't get me wrong - I'm not an anti-shred kinda guy. I love Vai, but even when Vai starts widdling incessently, it pisses me off. It almost ruins one of my favourite Vai songs (The Fire Garden Suite Angel Feet/Taurus Bulba bit)
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Bainzy on December 16, 2005, 03:20:27 PM
Some great playing there, but stuff like that would be so much more impressive in a song context - playing it in 10-30 second bits for a long period of time ends up boring people. It'd be fantastic to hear that band's songs and in the middle of the song he does one of the tricks that sounds great - that's why you can listen to early Van Halen and be very impressed and not bored at all.

Is it me, or is this clip conclusive proof that you can be great on guitar and still fail to look cool?  :lol:
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: fatbob on December 16, 2005, 03:31:28 PM
I think the 'song' in the tapping bit was "right here waiting for you" by richard marx. (pure cheese in music form IMO)
Im not a fan of technique for the sake of it, but I do admire people dedicated enough to get that good..... If only there was enough hours in the day for work, guitar and drinking!
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Ratrod on December 16, 2005, 04:28:07 PM
I have to say it's impressive. But I agree it's irrelevant. To me it's musical masturbation. Just like Vai (ducks for cover) when I saw him on TV with the Metropole Orchestra.

(Still, I wish I could play like that)
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Sekhmet on December 16, 2005, 04:37:02 PM
Looks like i'm one of the only ones that loved that clip.

As for as shread clips go, thats on of the ones with the most melodys, i think it's a bit harsh saying he coudln't write a tune bassed on one short clip of him where he's just showing off different impressive techniques.

I'd loved to see him using those in a song, would be awsome.

Gonna have to search for more of his stuff now :D
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Bainzy on December 16, 2005, 05:30:41 PM
Quote from: Sekhmet
i think it's a bit harsh saying he coudln't write a tune bassed on one short clip of him where he's just showing off different impressive techniques


that's not what I meant, I was just saying that showing off different impressive techniques works much better in songs as it keeps it more interesting - it ends up being a bit boring after a while just laying it all down at once in pieces thrown together.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: willo on December 16, 2005, 05:55:38 PM
Quote from: Sekhmet
i think it's a bit harsh saying he coudln't write a tune bassed on one short clip of him where he's just showing off different impressive techniques.


but thats kind of my point...if he is the kind of musician who is driven by whatever it is that makes a person show off fancy tricks on stage for 5 minutes, then is he going to be the kind of musician who is able to write a brilliant, composed and well-structured, humble song? Sure, he might be able to, but I'm not convinced from watching that clip, not convinced at all.

I've been listening to a lot of jazz guys of late, and they really blow this guy away. People like Charlie Parker could play technically very accomplished pieces but it always had a musical goal in mind - it was always heading somewhere.

A friend and I were also just talking about this too. I know it may well be improvised but its symptomatic of a lot the things in shred guitar that I just don't like (please note, it's only my opinion). He is playing licks that he has obviously learnt previously, and playing them extremely fast. This isn't music that is 'in the moment', and just doesn't interest me as such....regarding improvisation, I was listening to the guitar album by Ali Farka Toure/Diamani Tuobate 'In The Heart Of The Moon' and happily listened to it many times thinking it was some of the best recorded acoustic guitar playing and songwriting I'd heard in a long long time. My jaw hit the floor when I found out it was all improvised.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that - to me - this music has become irrelevant simply because I find it to be soulless. Musical instruments should be used to create music, and music is only impressive when judged as a complete whole, melody, rhythm, harmony, regardless of technique. There is nothing particularly out-of the-ordinary, apart from technique, in that guy's 5 minute spot.

(in my opinion  :wink: )
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: steve on December 16, 2005, 06:27:42 PM
I thought it was a very entertaining clip,and he didnt have a bad tone either!
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: badgermark on December 16, 2005, 06:41:05 PM
the 'keyboard' part on the guys head was a britney spears song. ummm i mean, i got told it was... umm yeah.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Sekhmet on December 16, 2005, 07:03:16 PM
^^^ fair enough but lets jsut leave it at a disagrement.

However i guess this makes me the kind of guitarist who can't write a good song either???

Ahwell...
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: 38thBeatle on December 16, 2005, 07:21:15 PM
Obviously the guy has a great amount of ability and I would certainly not be negative about it. The only thing I would say is that if I could play like that I am not sure that I would. The punters were enjoying it and I think it is one of those"you had to be there" moments.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: _tom_ on December 16, 2005, 07:58:22 PM
That was the one of the most uninspiring things I've ever watched  :lol: Willo, can you recommend some good jazz bands to listen to?
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Searcher on December 16, 2005, 09:53:26 PM
There's no denying how good the guy is technically. And he seems to have a pretty diverse range of playing styles up his sleeve. Other than that, it was a fairly typical solo spot for a guitarist. Of course he's showing off; that's what you do in solo spots, basically.

I liked the tapping thing he does where he plays the guitar almost as though it's piano. Reminds me a bit of Stanley Jordan's stuff. Something he played right near to the end sounded a bit like the theme for Bob the Builder.  :D

The only thing I'd work on, were I him, is to tie all the segments together a bit more smoothly so that it doesn't sound like he's thinking, "OK, now I played this bit, next I'll play that bit, then I'll play the other bit."

By the way, did anyone read the comments? Did you see this clown:

Quote
it looks nice.. but a beginners can do this too.. i play guitar for 1 year now and i can do this sort of things too it is not difficult try it yourself


LOL!  :lol:   8)
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Peterku on December 16, 2005, 10:10:07 PM
John Petrucci, for instance, is lightning fast but an excellent composer, too. His self-discipline is also exceptional. I don't like when he's improvising but I think he's a good example that a shred-king can be a great composer at the same time. While some say his music is "over-composed", to me it's a nice feature.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Elliot on December 16, 2005, 10:42:45 PM
Sorry, guys, but although he is a technically better guitarist than i'll evr be (or in fact would want to be) I thought he was unmelodic, cold and toneless.  He could keep time  :D  but the whole clip is just a circus act to me.


In saying that, his crowd seem to love him and maybe that is the true measure of things  :P
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Muso on December 16, 2005, 11:06:58 PM
I thought it was fun, all you guys saying "wheres the melody" well there are a few there but its supposed to be just a show off solo, I seriousley doubt he was trying to play anything meaningful :D

Oh yea that thing about John Petrucci being an excellent composer?!! you are joking right, he is miles behind guys like Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Richie Kotzen, Greg Howe to name but a few. I don't see the appeal with Petrucci, weak tone, repetative fast alternate picking playing fake prog music?
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Peterku on December 16, 2005, 11:19:20 PM
Quote from: Muso
Oh yea that thing about John Petrucci being an excellent composer?!! you are joking right, he is miles behind guys like Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Richie Kotzen, Greg Howe to name but a few. I don't see the appeal with Petrucci, weak tone, repetative fast alternate picking playing fake prog music?
Petrucci and Greg Howe are both among my favourites. I mostly listen to Metheny, Norman Brown and Robben Ford, though. They're all like apples and oranges, so I don't see your argument, sorry.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Sekhmet on December 17, 2005, 12:26:30 AM
^Agreed Petrucci is in my top 3 favourite guitarists.

Stanely Jordan is amazing, i love his tapping technique, he tues his guitar to be more like a piano to, i've seen a video of him playing jumpin' jack absolutly blew me away.

Everyones gonna have different opinions on things, i just think its a bit unfair judging someone so harshly on one clip, He looks like an awsome player and o might check some of his other stuff out if i remember.
Title: to peterku
Post by: fatbob on December 17, 2005, 12:44:43 AM
have you heard the album "An evening with jordon rudess & john pettrucci"
I bought the cd after hearing a couple of bits off www.progarchives.com THERE IS A LOT MORE TO JOHN PETRUCCI THAN  DREAM THEATER. flamenco, jazz, prog, IMPO the best
ON A POLL BASIS, HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS BLOKES ABILITY (TECHNIQUE) ?


I personally would almost sell my soul..... Think of the chicks!!!   :wink:  :wink:  :wink: lol
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: jt on December 17, 2005, 12:45:16 AM
:D You guys are being a bit harsh to say the least !!

The solo bit is fun & nothing more !  It`s like watching Independence Day & then complaining that it`s not Shakspear !! be fair & resonable. View it as a demo of whats possible. About a month ago i was going to the theartre as me & my friends walked through Covent Garden there was a kid [ early 20`s maybe ] he was playing an Epi SG laid on his knee face up. It was going through a little tranny amp via a FX unit it had Chorus & Echo selected & this kid was playing a beutifull little melody in a 2 handed tapping way just like this guy was doing playing it on the roadies head     [ Showmanship ] it wasn`t as fast or technically insane as the guy on this video, This kid was using a 1 note kick back on his delay setting which enabled him time to move to the next note.. [ Clever....very clever ! ]
if any of you had heard this little tune this kid was playing i bet that all of you would have said. "That`s Great "!! remember it`s only a demo of what`s possible

 :D  8)
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on December 17, 2005, 01:10:52 AM
Quote from: jt
remember it`s only a demo of what`s possible

Hmmm ...

Even in a demo format, it's possible to be melodic. Except for the delay excesses, the BULK of Yngwie's nightly solo is ultra melodic.

Sorry, I didn't hear any MUSIC in there, just a bunch of hyper fast, and often random, notes.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: fatbob on December 17, 2005, 01:22:34 AM
Funny you mention Yngwie. TO, I really thought the first half had so much "malmsten" those 5 into 4 phrases were pure yng!
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on December 17, 2005, 02:41:32 AM
Yeah, it was a bit 'neoclassical'.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Floyd Pepper on December 17, 2005, 12:41:54 PM
I prefer these clips http://www.tonemerchants.com/Guthrie_Govan_Clips.htm
of Guthrie Govan.

That 1st bloke needs to get out of the house more.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Johnny Mac on December 17, 2005, 02:19:57 PM
Yeah right! He is very good and I enjoyed it. Envy, very bad. :lol:
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: indysmith on December 17, 2005, 02:37:34 PM
DOWN WITH EGO-SHRED. Unless it has a tune... :twisted:  :shock:
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Peterku on December 17, 2005, 03:16:30 PM
Quote from: Floyd Pepper
I prefer these clips http://www.tonemerchants.com/Guthrie_Govan_Clips.htm
of Guthrie Govan.
NICE! :D
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Davey on December 17, 2005, 03:24:15 PM
that video was pure masturbation ...
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: 38thBeatle on December 17, 2005, 09:04:48 PM
with no climax
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Peterku on December 17, 2005, 11:39:11 PM
:lol:
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: lepersmeesa on December 18, 2005, 01:34:59 AM
He was good technically but was very tame musically. I cant really fault him on technique, he sounded like Vai, if Vai wasnt trying to sound tasteful. Good phrasing etc. But just cant listen to it. Again i dont like guitar solos with backing in general. Only a few pieces and nearly none of them are metal orientated solos. You need the backing there to make it interesting. Then the second thing which lets down alot of solos is a lack of good rhythm playing behind it.

HOWEVER! Guthrie Govan rocks my socks. I have a few more videos of him elsewhere if anyone is interested.

And dream theater rule....no questions.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Bainzy on December 18, 2005, 01:54:16 AM
Guthrie rulz
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Sekhmet on December 18, 2005, 10:45:39 AM
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ i know great isn't it    :D


Ooo the Guthrie Govan clips were cool.

Long live the shread!!
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Muso on December 18, 2005, 11:54:52 AM
I don't see the facination with Guthrie, hes good but not really in the elite division of players yet. I've not heard him play any non fusion stuff yet, maybe if he can play some good rock I will like him better.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Tellboy on December 21, 2005, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: Muso
I don't see the facination with Guthrie, hes good but not really in the elite division of players yet. I've not heard him play any non fusion stuff yet, maybe if he can play some good rock I will like him better.


I'm not a fusion fan and prefer "good rock" but have to strongly disagree with you on Guthrie. He has covered many styles in Guitar Techniques/Lick Library etc. He usually does all the more difficult Steve Vai / Paul Gilbert tutorials. In the Winter GT issues there was a readers poll of the Best guitarists (covering all fields). Winners included Eric Johnson, David Gilmour, BB King, Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, EVH, SRV, Yngwie etc.etc.
Guthrie then did his own (very convincing) version of all the winners styles. Apparently the other tutors on GT were asked for their votes in this poll and two of them put Guthrie above Satriani, Gilbert etc. One of them said "Having gigged with Guthrie and seen him play loads of times, I'd say he was the scariest guitarist there is !"
I would much rather hear him play rock, but apparently he got pissed off playing music he doesn't like.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: Muzzzz on January 23, 2007, 11:05:09 AM
Quote
John Petrucci, for instance, is lightning fast but an excellent composer, too. His self-discipline is also exceptional. I don't like when he's improvising but I think he's a good example that a shred-king can be a great composer at the same time. While some say his music is "over-composed", to me it's a nice feature.


Amen, nobody can fault Petrucci, and if they think they can, they haven't heard enough of his music. And IMO Petrucci's great when he's improvising too. and if Dream Theater - the most amazing band in the world - musically and technically - is "fake" prog, then "real" prog must be some kind of music heaven... Which DT is anyway... Wha? I'm confused..

Oh well, Dream Theater rule.

Aimless rant over.
Title: CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S TECHNIQUE
Post by: JamesHealey on January 23, 2007, 09:40:36 PM
the only bit i liked it when his bitch comes out and he plonks the guitar on his head and plays "i'll be right here waiting for you".. that was funny..

the rest was just a showcase of technique.