Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MrBump on September 21, 2010, 01:53:43 PM
-
Hmmm...
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/22vs24.htm (http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/22vs24.htm)
-
That is probably the most poorly written, opinionated, ill thought-out diatribe I have had the misfortune to read in recent years.
And yes, I use 24 fret guitars.
Roo
-
On a 22 fret neck the pickup sits directly over the 24th fret harmonic node. Simply explained a node is a dead spot or a massive phase cancellation. The Laws Of Physics are Absolute. These nodes occur on the 7th fret, 12th fret, 19th fret and 24th fret. If you place a pickup directly on a node the midrange frequencies will cancel themselves out.
And that is exactly what I like about the sound of a neck pickup on a 22 (or 21) fret guitar.
Make sure you avoid a guitar that the node falls on the pickup. Unless of course you want a muddy distorted rhythm sound like you would normally experience with a Les Paul or any Les Paul type guitar. Most intelligent people will agree on the fact that a Les Paul has a nice meaty lead tone but chords sound like dung.
Just because the switch says "Rhythm" it doesn't mean you have play rhythm on it. :roll:
PRS has taken that guitar off the market around 1995. I believe they did it on purpose so they could sell more guitars. It is self defeating to make a guitar that does everything.
Oh just shut up.
Some companies are now trying to pull the wool over your eyes by simply taking a 22 fret neck and adding 2 more frets to it. I will be exposing them in a new Expose' section coming soon on the website. At this writing I suspect that Gibson simply extended the board a little longer, The scale is still the same.
WHAT???
-
I use 24 fret guitars.
And physics beyond the level of rudimentary and misunderstood - there is only a node at the location of 24th fret if you inhibit vibration there and force it to be a stationary point by touching your finger to it (or similar, pick, whatever). Otherwise, in an open string vibration your root mode (not node, mode) is nodal at the nut and bridge, anti-nodal at 12th and all other points are somewhere in between. This doesnt take into account overtones, of which there are likely hundreds in the vibration of a guitar string (and hes only taken into account 1 and recognised the existance of, what was it, 4?)
Antinodal points dont cancel 'mids', they cancel everything; they are points of ZERO vibration.
By his logic the bridge position would never have any mids because its right next to one of the only two points on a guitar string that are always nodal.
Also by his logic, there would be 'phase cancellation' (which he uses incorrectly; its physically impossible for any vibration or point of vibration on a bound harmonic oscilator to be out of phase with any other part, and this includes guitar strings) by shortening a string and playing on ANY fret. Same for playing different strings at the same time. Doesnt happen unless the guitars out of tune or badly intonated.
The laws of physics are absolute, he has them absolutely wrong, and is absolutely wrong.
-
Who would have thought Ed Roman would be caught talking bollox :roll:
We've been kept amused by him over at Project Guitar for years now.
-
wow
moron? i think that's the right word.
although "chords sound like dung" is a great quote! is he from Kerry by any chance? :)
-
*SOME* of what ed says is actually pretty spot on.
He has a good line in 'beginner Vs high quality' guitars and judging an instrument by the instrument in your hands at the time as objectively as you can, not by brand and price tag.
But in this case hes embaraisngly wrong and doubly embarassingly smug about it.
-
I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that short ginger tw@t's mouth. He's renowned for being a little bit shady in the US. BC Rich and loads of people love him to bits...
-
why do people not notice the key problem with this nodal nonsense?
the 24th fret node isnt over the 24th fret once you fret the string
thats before we get onto the amount of string a pickup sees compared to the size of a node and the points MDV raises about the way a string vibrates
to me its an old guitar shop myth that people are keen to believe and even try to prove, but miss out obvious. there was a guy on PG desperate to try and convince us all of it because a guitar shop assisstant told him something about it in the 70's
you can read one here, i think there were a couple before this
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=43773&hl=nodes
he basically argues himself round to the point that exact pickup position isnt that important
-
I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that short ginger tw@t's mouth. He's renowned for being a little bit shady in the US. BC Rich and loads of people love him to bits...
Don't forget he's also fat and a racist. Probably not gay, but I bet he can't get it up.
-
i think i've read that before, and as mark says, it's just plain wrong. Plus I mean unless you're playing open strings all the time, the node moves, surely? :lol: EDIT: wez got there first.
Do you have a link to what he says about beginner guitars etc., mark?
-
why do people not notice the key problem with this nodal nonsense?
the 24th fret node isnt over the 24th fret once you fret the string
thats before we get onto the amount of string a pickup sees compared to the size of a node and the points MDV raises about the way a string vibrates
to me its an old guitar shop myth that people are keen to believe and even try to prove, but miss out obvious. there was a guy on PG desperate to try and convince us all of it because a guitar shop assisstant told him something about it in the 70's
you can read one here, i think there were a couple before this
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=43773&hl=nodes
he basically argues himself round to the point that exact pickup position isnt that important
"Also by his logic, there would be 'phase cancellation' (which he uses incorrectly; its physically impossible for any vibration or point of vibration on a bound harmonic oscilator to be out of phase with any other part, and this includes guitar strings) by shortening a string and playing on ANY fret."
They do. Occasionally. People notice one of the basic problems, that is. Also that the basic premise of there being something special about 24th fret because its the location of a possible nodal point is wrong - its not nodal unless you make it nodal by stopping that point and setting off the 4th natural hamonic.
All you have to do is pluck a string and see that it is indeed vibrating over the point of the 24th fret harmonic to prove that.
-
i think i've read that before, and as mark says, it's just plain wrong. Plus I mean unless you're playing open strings all the time, the node moves, surely? :lol: EDIT: wez got there first.
Do you have a link to what he says about beginner guitars etc., mark?
Not to hand. The general gist is the perception that a beginners guitar is one thats naturally and acceptably inferior quality, but that its higher quality guitars that are easier to play, set up properly, are more reliable, and so the best beginners guitars are just the same guitars as us 'proper' guitarists play (and I think he mentions that conversely an experienced guitarist is at least more capable of dealing with a more problematic instrument, if less likely to put up with it), and that various very expenisve guitars are basically etc etc etc, insert usual mention of PRS BAD NOW OK!
It goes on like that, and quite reasonably save I think the lack of mention of price, or he rationalises it being a better option for a neophyte guitarist to pay a grand for their first instrument or some nonsense. It does make sense in principle, though.
If you try an appropriate google you may find the rant, or a similar one.
-
thanks. Yeah, it is a bit ironic how beginners often have to make do with substandard guitars, whereas a better player could probably make do a bit more. But then if you're not sure if you're going to stick with it...
-
I'm not sure 21 fret guitars are holding Keith Richards back to be honest, I can't imagine him playing progressive avant garde metal if he had an extra 3 frets.
Especially with 5 strings and two fingers :?
-
I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that short ginger tw@t's mouth. He's renowned for being a little bit shady in the US. BC Rich and loads of people love him to bits...
Don't forget he's also fat and a racist. Probably not gay, but I bet he can't get it up.
:lol:
-
what a c0ck
-
so, now 24 fret guitars are ok? .. or what?
didnt he say 24 fret guitars sucked shyt, cos the pickup WASNT under the harmonic node?
i'm confused...
-
Have a look at this:
http://edroman.aleclee.com/main.html (http://edroman.aleclee.com/main.html)
Looks like Shobet was spot on with his comment PDT_023
-
this Ed Roman guys sounds pretty sweet! reminds me of someone in the UK.
-
Sometimes Ed Roman has made good points in his rants and sometimes had to removce some after legal letters were sent from the companies he spilled the beans on .
But this is utter rubbish aimed purely at serlling his own brand guitars
there is nothing wrong at all with 22 fret guitars
YES the neck pickup sounds different to one on a 24 fret guitar assuming that they were both at the end of a fingerboard
Actually the Gibson SG has it's neck pickup in the same place where a 24 fret guitar would have it, so there is no difference
String tension is governed by SCALE LENGTH and to a lesser extent break angle over the nut and bridge in terms of feel
To say it has anything to do with number of frets is the worst kind of BS propoganda
-
I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that short ginger tw@t's mouth. He's renowned for being a little bit shady in the US. BC Rich and loads of people love him to bits...
Don't forget he's also fat and a racist. Probably not gay, but I bet he can't get it up.
I am not an Ed Roman fan, but how do we know he is racist?
-
Read the last story on here:
http://edroman.aleclee.com/does.html
Doesn't really detail what he said or that he is a racist (although I suspect he is). There's no smoke without fire.
-
Read the last story on here:
http://edroman.aleclee.com/does.html
Doesn't really detail what he said or that he is a racist (although I suspect he is). There's no smoke without fire.
I just saw that. Still not exactly a prima facie case, but rest assured I will not be buying anything from Ed any time soon.
-
I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of that short ginger tw@t's mouth. He's renowned for being a little bit shady in the US. BC Rich and loads of people love him to bits...
Don't forget he's also fat and a racist. Probably not gay, but I bet he can't get it up.
I am not an Ed Roman fan, but how do we know he is racist?
I haven't yet read the link Ian posted, but my (slightly tongue in cheek) comment was based on the comments Mr Roman repeatedly makes about "imports".
He derides anything made outside the USA, and uses the very word "import" to imply "inferior". He totally ignores the actual quality of guitars made in Japan, Korea or wherever and implies they're rubbish simply because they're foreign. I regard that as racist.
(This might be stuff which is no longer on his website, I read it all quite a few years ago. But there was a lot of it.)
-
I have little need for that many frets. I rarely play a note beyond the 20th.
I know a guitarist who converted his strat to 24 frets. Stock scale so the neck pocket had to be routed out and the neck pickup moved back. He quickly noticed the glorious tone from his neck pickup was gone.
Many players belive that the spot of the 24th fret or where the pickup sits on traditional guitars is the most resonant spot of the guitar.
In many cases Ed makes a valid point in his rants but they are all made with one single motivation: money.
They're all sales pitches in disguise.
-
Just read the opening statement in this.
http://www.edroman.com/rants/pawnshops.htm
Racist? I think so!
Paddy
-
While there undoubtedly seems to be many issues with Ed Roman, that "Fixing the heel from hell" complaint always annoys me. I mean "I got him to remove a large mass of wood from the heel of my guitar and now it sounds brighter"??? What exactly was this guy expecting? That it would suddenly sound like a 70s LP Custom??
-
well... that was terrible reading
-
Flags depicting Americans being shot? Haven't seen one of those yet, certainly not as a country's national flag.
Flags depicting an AK-47, yes, but Americans being shot? Really?
BTW, another thing that don't bother me on a guitar at all: a massively fat heel.
-
Just read the opening statement in this.
http://www.edroman.com/rants/pawnshops.htm
Racist? I think so!
Paddy
Good wholesome bigotry, can't beat it.
I like his chat at the bottom about how being called names by "filthy gyps" in "their third world languages" just goes to proves he right. Yeah, mate, right on...
Pretty much his entire website is like US Jingoism Central.
-
And he wonders why they don't like Americans :?
-
Ed Roman - a few good point buried under the epic weight of his c*ckness!