Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Ian Price on September 27, 2010, 10:19:52 PM
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I'm pretty much all about tele's nowadays. Just seen this and, apart from the slightly dodgy fretboard wear, love the look of it:
(http://guitarvillage.co.uk/admin/pages/upload/Fender/Tele%20Mexico/rworn50telebld.jpg)
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Is that a new Road Worn colour, Ian?
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I'm really not sure Philly. I think I've tried one out in that colour but I could be wrong.
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You're right, I thought the available colours were sunburst and white, but that's the '60s Strat. There always was a blonde Tele.
The fretboard wear looks cr@ppier in photos than it does in real life.... or at least, once you get some dirt on the board between the frets the wear patterns start to look more "real".
I was really surprised how good the ageing on my Road Worn Deluxe is, there's a lot more attention to detail than you see in the photos - like pick marks on the scratchplate and lots of little dings around the jackplate and headstock edges.
Now I must go and look at my "Boss Gone Mad" email.....
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they never have anything i want, but I'm off to take a look anyway... :lol:
EDIT: hmm that laney lionheart cab is good value, it's almost worth that for the speakers. But £40 postage to NI... :shock: But for one of you guys, that's a good price.
EDIT #2: Oh dear mega GAS time... :lol:
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Gas straight away. That tele looks very nice. Just some BG50's in it an go....
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I've played a couple of those, one of them was the first Roadworn I saw. I nearly bought both times... I only turned them down because they would invalidate my Baja and I don't like parting with guitars...
I'd recommend looking at the strats instead, Ian :lol:
Don't even touch one, though, unless you have spending power at hand and are prepared/able to use it if smitten. I've got two, a 60s sunburst and a 50s sunburst. The first one I got a deal similar to this in Denmark St (!), even at the price on the wall I was sorely tempted, but when they made me an offer I didn't even have to txt the missus until I was out of the shop with gig bag. She was there when I tried the second one. Once I started playing it she decided I ought to have it :lol:
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I've got an American Series Telecaster (made in 2000). Sunburst, two piece straigthgrained alder, maple neck/rosewood fretboard. Great guitar, very sustaining. The neck is so great. But, I like the roadworn looks too.
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I do like the look of that 'Roadworn' Ian ; I can just imagine hearing it 'grind' through a 70's Silverface Twin ... 8)
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I shall be there on Saturday morning! :P
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Its always on when I have no available cash-bugger!! :(
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Its always on when I have no available cash-bugger!! :(
I always have no cash :(
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Its always on when I have no available cash-bugger!! :(
I always have no cash :(
Most of their stuff I have GAS for is "bloody expensive" and after deducting 10% it's "still bloody expensive" so I'm never really tempted. They don't have many absolute bargains.
I suppose it would be good to get the discount if you were set on buying something anyway.
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^ yeah, an awful lot of the stuff is dearer than you can get it elsewhere before the discount- so while the discount does make it a bit cheaper than you can get it most other places, it's by and large only if you're after one anyway, in that case you might as well save a bit.
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Im not gassing for anything at the moment, but would be nice to have a bit of cash and pop down to see what I could treat myself too. I must admit, i haven't bought a guitar from a shop for years now, I tend to buy 2nd hand on the internet these days, and i've just spent all my spare cash on a Yank-Tank so no new gear for me :(
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I have serious GAS for the new Bogner Goldfinger. Clips sound amazing. But, yes, as most here, I gas for expensive stuff.
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OK, the sale's been going for 20 minutes now - where are all the NGD threads? :D
I nearly suggested a "South London etc" BKP outing to Farnham, but thought better of it.
Imagine a small group of us "shopping" for guitars. I could see various possibilities:
- we'd egg each other on and all end up taking home a load of stuff we really shouldn't be buying
- we could get into un-seemly competition/disagreement over one guitar we all want
- we'd all end up being so worried that our personal choices/preferences weren't "right" in the eyes of our peers, none of us would get anything, even if we wanted it and could afford it
Still... I'm eagerly awaiting these NGD threads... Philly? Ian? :lol:
EDIT: Ah... I see Philly's on line at the moment. So mebbe he's restrained himself... or mebbe he's browsing BKP on a suitable mobile communication device while sat on the train... or mebbe he's having a relaxing browse while eating his boily-egg and soldiers before jumping on the train... or maybe he's logged in to post his NGD thread already? :lol:
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Still... I'm eagerly awaiting these NGD threads... Philly? Ian? :lol:
Naaah. :lol:
If this was 50% off (or even 25% off) I would be tempted, although TBH I'd probably hate it if I actually played it.
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA)
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No NGD for me folks! I know what would happen if I went!
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I drove past a couple of hours ago, and it didnt look too busy :?. I remember the good old days when people used to queue for hours (sometimes days!!)
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I remember getting there very early one morning. About 3 hours before opening. All to buy the 1975 Tele. I'd been in the day before and was told that they didn't reserve anything at sale price. Eventually I got into the shop (I was about 5th in) and much to my panic I couldn't see the Tele anywhere. A few minutes later Derek (the manager) tapped me on the shoulder and said "Are you looking for this?" and then handed me the Tele. Apparently he had put it behind the counter for me the previous day - I was happy and a little frustrated at the same time :lol:
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Still... I'm eagerly awaiting these NGD threads... Philly? Ian? :lol:
Naaah. :lol:
If this was 50% off (or even 25% off) I would be tempted, although TBH I'd probably hate it if I actually played it.
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA)
OHH that is sexy!
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Still... I'm eagerly awaiting these NGD threads... Philly? Ian? :lol:
Naaah. :lol:
If this was 50% off (or even 25% off) I would be tempted, although TBH I'd probably hate it if I actually played it.
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9768&catid=78&manid=119&quantity=1&product=Gibson+Les+Paul+Limited+Edition+Custom+1+P-90+(HB201C),+Antique+Ebony,+New,+Inc.+Case+%26+COA)
I saw that under the counter in the display areas today and I'm not ales paul fan but it looked amazing. I tried pretty much every custom shop strat they had and did buy a 1960 Lake placid blue relic which sounded the best of the bunch to me and bagged it at a decent discount to anywhere else. I bought with my ears - still not sure about lake placid blue but it just sounded awesome so it had to be mine - there you go NGD 8)
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I had a LPB relic once. Very nice (and I'm jealous)
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I tried pretty much every custom shop strat they had and did buy a 1960 Lake placid blue relic which sounded the best of the bunch to me and bagged it at a decent discount to anywhere else. I bought with my ears - still not sure about lake placid blue but it just sounded awesome so it had to be mine - there you go NGD 8)
This one?
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9976&catid=115&manid=33&quantity=1&product=Fender+American+Stratocaster+Custom+Shop+Limited+Edition+1961+Relic,+Lake+Placid+Blue,+Pre+Owned,+2009,+EC%2B,+Inc.+White+Tolex+Case+%26+COA (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9976&catid=115&manid=33&quantity=1&product=Fender+American+Stratocaster+Custom+Shop+Limited+Edition+1961+Relic,+Lake+Placid+Blue,+Pre+Owned,+2009,+EC%2B,+Inc.+White+Tolex+Case+%26+COA)
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I tried pretty much every custom shop strat they had and did buy a 1960 Lake placid blue relic which sounded the best of the bunch to me and bagged it at a decent discount to anywhere else. I bought with my ears - still not sure about lake placid blue but it just sounded awesome so it had to be mine - there you go NGD 8)
This one?
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9976&catid=115&manid=33&quantity=1&product=Fender+American+Stratocaster+Custom+Shop+Limited+Edition+1961+Relic,+Lake+Placid+Blue,+Pre+Owned,+2009,+EC%2B,+Inc.+White+Tolex+Case+%26+COA (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=9976&catid=115&manid=33&quantity=1&product=Fender+American+Stratocaster+Custom+Shop+Limited+Edition+1961+Relic,+Lake+Placid+Blue,+Pre+Owned,+2009,+EC%2B,+Inc.+White+Tolex+Case+%26+COA)
No, the one I went for is not nearly as cool looking as that. I wanted to like that one very much but the neck was too fat and the bridge pickup wasn't a texas special which was a deal breaker. That one looks unbelievably amazing though. They have removed mine from the web now. I'll post a few pics when I get it. (had to go back to Fender as the neck pickup wasn't properly connected.
Its amazing how different the custom shop stuff sounds. I had no intention of buying the guitar I did but as good as the others were with finishes that I actually preferred they just didn't match up tonally
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Its amazing how different the custom shop stuff sounds.
They shouldn't do, as it's supposedly a simple case of bolting nice parts together, but somehow the Custom Shop stuff just 'works'!
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Its amazing how different the custom shop stuff sounds.
They shouldn't do, as it's supposedly a simple case of bolting nice parts together, but somehow the Custom Shop stuff just 'works'!
I think Matt was saying it's amazing how different one Custom Shop guitar sounds from another, Dave. :wink:
I don't believe it's impossible to get a dud from the Custom Shop, but I do believe generally they're better than than the US production models (in my very limited experience). As they bloody well should be, or we'd be questioning the whole concept of a "custom shop".
Then again, I think the average American Standard (for example) is pretty "meh". You have to shop around to find a really good one. I don't know why that is, the components are good and the quality control is generally good.... I can only think it's down to timber selection. I wouldn't dream of buying a US Fender sight unseen.
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I love the LPB strat you posted Philly. Can't afford it though!
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Ah - good point Philly!
Same when I bought my Tele actually, I played an identical model (bar the colour) and it was great, but not superb. Luckily for me I guess, the tone matched with the colour I wanted ;)
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Just to clarify - they were all brilliant guitars! But some were lighter, some had slightly different necks, more finish less finish which all made a difference. Tonally they were all in the same ball park but some were brighter, some darker and some with more midrange (which is what I wanted).
Strats and teles seem more sensitive than most when matching up components and good ones add up to more than the sum of their parts.
I still love my roadworn though - brilliant guitar for the money. Not as good as custom shop but it will stand a side by side comparison and come out well.
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I would love to own a Custom Shop Tele or Strat one day, but I just don't feel I can justify dropping over two grand on one guitar (having said that, I'd have no problem spending the same money on two or three guitars which, by any sensible criteria, I also don't "need" - I don't "need" any guitars at all - so perhaps there's there's a major flaw in my thinking...)
I wouldn't have the balls to go into a shop and try out a load of CS Fenders then walk out without buying one, so perhaps it's best if I just steer clear altogether.
I have to ask, Matt, does this mean the PRS 305 is already falling out of favour?
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They shouldn't do, as it's supposedly a simple case of bolting nice parts together, but somehow the Custom Shop stuff just 'works'!
tinfoil hat time, perhaps, but i'm guessing fender knows exactly what makes the CS stuff special, and only uses that stuff on the CS stuff- or else artificially handicaps the non-CS stuff. :)
Lake placid blue is a nice colour, perhaps my fave in rosewood board strats. Nice score :)
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tinfoil hat time, perhaps, but i'm guessing fender knows exactly what makes the CS stuff special, and only uses that stuff on the CS stuff- or else artificially handicaps the non-CS stuff. :)
Artificially handicapping the non-CS stuff would seem a bit counter-productive! "Sorry Ricardo, people expect Mexican Fenders to be shite, take them away and $%&# them up a bit more" :lol:
I should think the cost of labour and raw materials pretty much sets a ceiling on how "good" a guitar can be at a particular price point. There shouldn't be a need to intentionally "dumb down". :wink:
Having said that, wood is an idiosyncratic raw material - there's no guarantee an expensive piece of alder will sound better than a cheap piece of alder (or alder-equivalent). There's also no guarantee that two expensive pieces of alder will sound equally good. But that's part of the expertise of a Custom Shop, presumably, so it's the expertise you're paying for, not just "better" materials. Or am I just buying into the hype? :lol:
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I would love to own a Custom Shop Tele or Strat one day, but I just don't feel I can justify dropping over two grand on one guitar (having said that, I'd have no problem spending the same money on two or three guitars which, by any sensible criteria, I also don't "need" - I don't "need" any guitars at all - so perhaps there's there's a major flaw in my thinking...)
I have to ask, Matt, does this mean the PRS 305 is already falling out of favour?
No - not really - they are poles apart in feel and tone. The 305 is a great guitar in its own right and it sounds like an alder bodied single coil guitar but it does not sound like a vintage strat. (sounds daft I know but it really is quite different) I suppose its the same with the PRS sc245 = it sounds like a mahogany bodied singlecut but it does not sound like a les paul.
The 305 to me sounds more tele like on the bridge and is altogether more modern with much tighter bass. Its playability is unparalleled and the trem is the best non locking in the world (IMHO) but a good strat sings like nothing else but a good strat. The CS is a replacement for my roadworn which I was using most of all.
On the subject of high value guitars - I have that little spare time with 2 kids I have narrowed my guitars down to a few really really nice ones that I can actually play. I would have more if I had more time to play them 8)
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tinfoil hat time, perhaps, but i'm guessing fender knows exactly what makes the CS stuff special, and only uses that stuff on the CS stuff
This is exactly how it works I'm sure.
* Fender buys wood
* Wood is graded
* Top wood goes to CS
* Next best goes to USA reissues and Signatures
* Next best to USA standards
* etc etc
The days of buying a regular USA Strat and it being a complete tone monster in every way are over (in my opinion). The raw materials are filtered in such a way that it can't happen.
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^ when i first read your post I thought you were disagreeing with me, but now I think you're agreeing with me. :lol:
Artificially handicapping the non-CS stuff would seem a bit counter-productive! "Sorry Ricardo, people expect Mexican Fenders to be shiteeee, take them away and $%&# them up a bit more" :lol:
I should think the cost of labour and raw materials pretty much sets a ceiling on how "good" a guitar can be at a particular price point. There shouldn't be a need to intentionally "dumb down". :wink:
Having said that, wood is an idiosyncratic raw material - there's no guarantee an expensive piece of alder will sound better than a cheap piece of alder (or alder-equivalent). There's also no guarantee that two expensive pieces of alder will sound equally good. But that's part of the expertise of a Custom Shop, presumably, so it's the expertise you're paying for, not just "better" materials. Or am I just buying into the hype? :lol:
I think you're buying into the hype. :lol: At first glance it's counter-productive, but with a little analysis it's actually the most sensible thing in the world... from a business point of view, anyway.
Note, I'm not saying CS guitars aren't good (I haven't actually tried any, like you, I don't have the neck on me to try the really expensive stuff which I have no intention of buying :lol: ), and I'm not saying that high-end guitars aren't worth it, but it's human nature- which is easier to do: to make the CS guitars better, or to make the non-CS guitars worse?
I mean, don't the Mexican Standard Fenders have ceramic pickups with bar magnets rather than polepieces (which sound like cr@p)? That sounds suspiciously like artificial handicapping to me. Don't Gibson fit the wrong value pots to their cheaper guitars? Etc. etc.
I'm not saying they set out to make a dog or anything, but there are a bunch of things you can do to, er, "exaggerate" the differences, shall we say.
Floyd Roses- how much cheaper are the really cr@p ones on the cheaper guitars, really? Why are the good floyds only on guitars upwards of £1000, when they could easily put a good Floyd on a £300 guitar and raise the purchase price by, say, £150?
Who would buy the £1500 superstrat if you could get something almost as good for £450? The real purists would still pay the £1500, but for a lot of people the £300 guitar would be good enough- if it had a good floyd so it stayed in tune and sounded good and had a responsive trem. To make matters worse, on a lot of the cheaper guitars the stock bad floyd isn't even a direct swap for a good one- making the upgrade, which would turn a mediocre guitar into a good one, that much harder and more expensive. Is that a coincidence? I guess it might be, but I doubt it.
A lot of people buying the cheaper MIM standard won't try a CS strat to see how much better it is- and those who do may be persuaded to pay the extra for the custom shop one. It's win-win (apart from the consumer).
"I should think the cost of labour and raw materials pretty much sets a ceiling on how "good" a guitar can be at a particular price point. There shouldn't be a need to intentionally "dumb down". :wink: "
True, but the problem is the law of diminishing returns. A £100 guitar might be half as good as a £200 guitar. But a £1000 guitar isn't half as good as a £2000 one. Once it gets past a certain level, it's probably "good enough", and most people, assuming limited funds, would plump for the cheaper option, if the only difference were that extra 2% of tone. But if it's artificially handicapped (say, a floyd that won't stay in tune where the knife edges are made of papier-mache), it's a lot easier to persuade the consumer to part with the money for the more expensive instrument, when there are actual tangible gains to be made with the more expensive instrument.
EDIT: anyway, the basic gist of my post, if you can't be bothered reading the rest, is that Fender could probably make a decent-quality strat or tele, with all the right parts (steel block trem, alnico polepiece pickups etc.) for not much more than a mexican classic costs. But it's not really in their interests to do so, because a lot of people would buy one over a CS.
Oh, and before anyone says, I'm well aware that economies of scale play a part too- what's a worthwhile upgrade when you have one guitar often isn't so worthwhile if you're making 10,000.
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You're right Dave - Fender could make a very good guitar for the price of a USA Standard.
Market forces, brand images, and what price the market will take all add up the pricing and model structure they have. If you can make a significant amount more profit by filtering the parts a bit and using the "Custom Shop" badge, what company wouldn't do that?
Gibson do it with the '59 reissue LPs. An extra £1000 for a flame top is almost all profit, but the buyers love a flame top and will pay for it.
Simples ;)
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I mean, don't the Mexican Standard Fenders have ceramic pickups with bar magnets rather than polepieces (which sound like cr@p)? That sounds suspiciously like artificial handicapping to me. Don't Gibson fit the wrong value pots to their cheaper guitars? Etc. etc.
Sorry Dave, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree! :lol:
I believe Fender use those pickups because they're cheap, not because they want pickups which sound worse. As for Gibson, I just can't believe the reason they use 300k pots is to deliberately make their guitars sound worse! :? :P
Floyd Roses- how much cheaper are the really cr@p ones on the cheaper guitars, really? Why are the good floyds only on guitars upwards of £1000, when they could easily put a good Floyd on a £300 guitar and raise the purchase price by, say, £150?
Who would buy the £1500 superstrat if you could get something almost as good for £450?
That assumes the person buying the £300 guitar has another £150 to spend. I suspect they actually only have £300 (if that). Cheap guitars are aimed (primarily) at people who can only afford cheap guitars, not at people who have more money but like a bargain.
I don't think the person with £1500 to spend is even looking at £450 guitars, no matter how good they are. They're paying £1500 because they think the £1500 guitar is better (even if, for the sake of argument, that perception is false).
If a £450 guitar really was (almost as) as good as a £1500 one, we'd have realised it by now and no-one would buy £1500 guitars. But I don't believe you can build a "£1500 standard" guitar and make a profit at £450.
True, but the problem is the law of diminishing returns. A £100 guitar might be half as good as a £200 guitar. But a £1000 guitar isn't half as good as a £2000 one. Once it gets past a certain level, it's probably "good enough", and most people, assuming limited funds, would plump for the cheaper option, if the only difference were that extra 2% of tone. But if it's artificially handicapped (say, a floyd that won't stay in tune where the knife edges are made of papier-mache), it's a lot easier to persuade the consumer to part with the money for the more expensive instrument, when there are actual tangible gains to be made with the more expensive instrument.
I agree with the diminishing returns theory - you certainly don't get twice the guitar for twice the price. Also I'm absolutely sure the profit margin on a £2000 Custom Shop is MUCH bigger than on a £200 Squier.
But I still don't believe they're "artificially handicapped". Of course they could make a £200 guitar better, but then they could no longer sell it at £200 and still make a profit. Which eats into the profits from the expensive guitars. I believe they build to a price so they can make some kind of profit on everything.
It's the CS guitars which are "artificially overpriced", not the cheap guitars which are "artificially handicapped". £200 Strats exist so people who only have £200 can buy a Strat - not to convince wealthier people to buy expensive ones.
(IMO, of course. :wink: )
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Jeebus, look at the length of that post! :oops: AndyR eat your heart out.
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^ :lol: My fault, I started it :oops:
Regarding your post (I'll not quote it all to keep this as short as possible): I dunno. I guess it depends. I know for a fact that I'm the exact opposite of that person you described- I could afford a £3000 guitar if I wanted to, but I often make a judgement call that it's nor worth it, or that I'd rather have 3 very good guitars than one excellent one (if I need different tones, for example). You yourself said you'd struggle to pay £2000 for one guitar, but have no problem in having lots of £500 ones. Of course, I agree that we're probably exceptions.
I dunno. Those pickups aren't that much cheaper (though granted, as i said earlier, economies of scale can make even small savings add up). Look at the squier classic vibes with (allegedly) toneriders. Cheaper guitars, better pickups (granted made in china). Same thing with the trems. If Ibanez, say, whacked an original edge into the RG350 they'd fly off the shelves. The problem is, the 1550 wouldn't. Of course, under the current sales tactic, the rg350 is flying off the shelves anyway, and so is the 1550, so again that (arguably) backs up my point that the marketing departments and bean counters know exactly what they're doing.
I could very easily believe it with gibson or fender. When you have as big a market share as they do, and you're an aspirational brand, where people know they want a fender or a gibson even before they've learnt to play, you're almost competing with your own lines more than your competitors.
I agree that a £400 guitar isn't as good as a £1500 one (all things being equal), but my point is that without the artificial handicapping, it might be "close enough" to sway a lot of buyers. Is, say, an rg350 as good as a 1550 even if it had a good trem? No. But the trem is the main factor- what is a decent guitar is spoilt by something which, eventually (or not so eventually) won't stay in tune. That's no longer "not as good", that's "unusable".
Regarding your points about the profit margin being bigger on a dearer guitar and £200 guitars existing for people who have £200- I agree. However, all those things are not mutually exclusive. A £200 guitar can exist to provide a guitar for those who only have £200 AND also exist to persuade those who have more money that they'd be better buying the more expensive instrument (they also exist to foment brand loyalty, in the hopes that if/when you upgrade you'll buy e.g. another Fender). None of those things are mutually exclusive, and by and large they don't care how they make money as long as they make money. They're trying to kill as many birds with one stone as they can.
That's what I'm saying.
You're right Dave - Fender could make a very good guitar for the price of a USA Standard.
Market forces, brand images, and what price the market will take all add up the pricing and model structure they have. If you can make a significant amount more profit by filtering the parts a bit and using the "Custom Shop" badge, what company wouldn't do that?
Gibson do it with the '59 reissue LPs. An extra £1000 for a flame top is almost all profit, but the buyers love a flame top and will pay for it.
Simples ;)
definitely. When I got my legra, the upcharge for a flamed maple top was something like £60. The prices would have gone up now as it's a couple of years later, but yeah.
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I don't think any brands artificially handicap their guitars - that makes no sense. They just make the best guitars that they can to a price point whilst also making an acceptable profit.
A mexican strat will have pooorer quality, a body with more pieces, weaker pickups/electronics zinc trem block and are mass produced in a factory.
The CS stuff has the best woods and better components and is not as mass produced but is put together by a team (or if your really flush 1 builder) who are very good luthiers and so they get a certain attention to detail.
Im sure the profit margin on them is massive but people buy them (obviously :P)
Like Dave says about the Gibson 59 reissues - huge money but if you want a 59 then thats the price and a lot of people do!
Fender is an aspirational brand and so logic goes out the window when it comes to pricing. Its the same with all aspirational purchases. Why buy a Porsche 911 Turbo when a Nissan Skyline will arguably do a better job? Its a Porsche
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This one looks interesting and is under 1000 euro's.
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I don't think any brands artificially handicap their guitars - that makes no sense.
sure it does
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalization#Retail
also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_differentiation
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I really like the CS stuff but I still think you can put as good a guitar together yourself for half the price.
It won't have the name but you can get as good grade wood from Warmoth or USA custom guitars, better hardware from Glendale or Callaham and choose the specs you want.
But it's hard to compete with the mojo, the finish on some of the CS stuff (like the Nocaster) is great and that is where a lot of the price difference goes. A lot goes into those Nitro finishes.
They fit like a glove from the off and sound like a good Strat or Tele should with no pissing around. You pay a premium for selected parts but if you have the money Fender still make the best Fender guitars IMO.
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I really like the CS stuff but I still think you can put as good a guitar together yourself for half the price.
It won't have the name but you can get as good grade wood from Warmoth or USA custom guitars, better hardware from Glendale or Callaham and choose the specs you want.
But it's hard to compete with the mojo, the finish on some of the CS stuff (like the Nocaster) is great and that is where a lot of the price difference goes. A lot goes into those Nitro finishes.
They fit like a glove from the off and sound like a good Strat or Tele should with no pissing around. You pay a premium for selected parts but if you have the money Fender still make the best Fender guitars IMO.
Yes, CS is great. I played a 52 and 58 Relic Tele in a guitarshop and they have a great fat open tone, I think due to the relic-job, the woodselection and the thick necks. But do they sound 2000-2500 euro better then my American Series Tele with BKP's? Well, no...
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Jeebus, look at the length of that post! :oops: AndyR eat your heart out.
:lol:
And I had to read the bluddy things!
In the main I agree with Philly and others... The other theory sounds a bit like "the truth is out there..." to me :lol:
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come on, there's a bit of a difference between thinking there are aliens abducting people and thinking that companies are trying to maximise their profits, surely?
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I can't imagine Fender doing a 'Ratner' any time soon..........
"We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total cr@p".
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well, sure, but i mean that was a slightly extreme ocurrence...
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time to come clean, I bought the laney gh50l and lionheart cab... :lol:
I don't tell people I've bought something till I have it in my hand because the last couple of times I did that it jinxed it and it fell through or something went wrong :lol:
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Good stuff Dave - how are they?
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thanks, they're pretty nice. I haven't had much of a play as I kinda had to spend most of the afternoon clearing out room for them and then was too tired to give them a decent run through. :lol: But they seem pretty nice so far- you wouldn't trade in your boutique head for one, but as a spare, or to do a tone your current stuff doesn't do, for the money, it's really really nice indeed. The speaker cab seems nice too but I've only tried it with the laney so far, I'd need to try it with my other amps to really get a handle on how the cab sounds (and also the amp, I suppose).
it fills a nice hole in my gear, I have my engl for more modern stuff, and a valvepower 18 watt clone for more vintage overdrive, and then the laney kinda covers the middle ground really nicely (the engl does it too, as does the valvepower with a boost, but the laney's kind of made for that middle ground, 80s hard rock and metal and stuff like that). :)
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The GH50L is a cracking head, and stupid cheap. I loved mine :)
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thanks dave. Definitely liking it a lot. What I actually really like are the lower gain crunch tones too- I was suspecting it to be all about the higher gain/80s stuff, but with the extra gain stage disengaged it actually sounds pretty vintage. The cleans are pretty nice too (though to be honest I only had those dialled in for about 30 seconds when I first tried it... :lol: ).