Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Alex on October 02, 2010, 10:42:56 AM
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Hi all!
I have two amps - a 5150 which I use through a self-built 2x12" cab and a Krank Rev Jr (20Watt) which I use through a 1x12".
Both amps really are too loud for home use. I am not using the 5150 anymore, it is at my parents place in the basement. Yesterday I played it (loud) and loved the clarity and feel you get from it.
End of the story, I really need to get a better bedroom level HIGH GAIN sound, because that is what I need for playing 99% of the time. Currently at low volumes, the Krank doesn't sound clear and transparent enough and looses its feel (it does of course sound better once the power amp compression, Class A, starts, the speaker gets going, but then it is just much too loud).
What can I do? Any suggestion/advice?
I'm pretty sure I will sell the 5150 sooner than later. That will leave me with some money to spend on improving my sound at home.
Some thoughts I have had:
A) A power attenuator?
I've had very limited and not very satisfying experience with power attenuators (i.e. the Marshall Powersoak), as they seem to be mostly for a 100Watt Marshall top running at full power, hence not for bedroom level.
However, I've heard good things about this one:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/tube_amp_doctor_silencer_power_attenuator.htm
B) A custom 1x10" cab from Cabzilla?
Maybe the problem is more the loud speakers in my cabs? Maybe a smaller and lower sensitivity speaker would work better, as it requires less push from the power amp?
C) I get a Laney Lionheart 5Watt amp instead, for highgain I use an overdrive pedal as booster.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_l5t112_lionheart.htm
D) I keep the Krank, run it clean and get a tube overdrive pedal instead, like the Blackstar HT-DistX
http://www.thomann.de/gb/blackstar_ht_distx.htm
Not an option are digital modellers or headphones - I actually have my brother's Roland Microcube here in the closet, I don't like it & I also have a Line6 Pocket Pod - not what I want.
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Without spending anything, have you tried running your Pod as a preamp through a clean valve amp? I've had excellent results with this in the past. Leave the cab model on. The valve power amp adds authenticity and character to the tone.
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If you're prepared to look at the Lionheart with boost, also look at their CUB range.
I went out looking for the CUB10 (10W with master), but found the newer CUB12 next to it. This is a master 15 watt with a usable >1W input. It also has a 12" rather than 10" speaker.
I find myself using the 15W input, master on 2-3, most of the time at home (at non-sensitive hours).
But the >1W input is surprisingly useful, better than my Vox AC4's reduced settings, and this is even with the master way down to "only just on" for midnight noodlings. Used like that, it's never going to be like getting the amp cooking a bit (this one wants master at at least 2 on either input, but really likes 5 or more), but I have to admit that I do now prefer this to my beloved Vox Tonelab LE modelling solution.
I'm not a big pedals fan, but I do have a Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive that I bought to try to get round the volume problems with my Vox AC4TV. I hated that pedal through the AC4TV, but I tried it through the CUB12 and it sounds fantastic. So, with my very limited experience of stomp boxing, it appears the CUB12 takes overdrive pedals reasonably well...
I would definitely give martinw's suggestion a go though... I found a PODXTLive running into the front of a clean AC4TV gave me a far better tone at really low volumes than fiddling with the overdrive pedal.
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Pocket Pod on Recto setting into the Krank?
Should cost about £50?
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In my experience (very extensive trial and error) there's not really an option for good low volume high gain sounds in isolation that's commonly available. By in isolation I mean on their own, there are plenty things that can be recorded at low volume that work in a mix.
I think you need to go bespoke. Your best shout without spending loads of money is Guitar Rig, I reckon.
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The Valve Bimbo will give you prosounds ad bedroomlevels. It has an attenuator from 5 tot 0.5 Watts. Quite expensive but big sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSsPorSlfQg&feature=related (ftp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSsPorSlfQg&feature=related)
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What about the new Blackstar HT1?
I'm very tempted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enaYgJesWeM
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just use an overdrive as a boost over the high gain channel of the 5150 or krank.
I doubt any of the other options you listed are really going to do much, and are going to be a lot more expensive. (apart from the attenuator, I have no experience with them, but supposedly they suck a lot of tone if you're doing heavy attenuation)
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just use an overdrive as a boost over the high gain channel of the 5150 or krank.
I doubt any of the other options you listed are really going to do much, and are going to be a lot more expensive. (apart from the attenuator, I have no experience with them, but supposedly they suck a lot of tone if you're doing heavy attenuation)
The Bimbo does not suck tone with heavy attenuation. It's made with highquality components and therefore no bargain, but a great tool for studio and bedroom.
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I'm surprised Martin didn't mention the ideal solution (http://www.martamp.com/GSPowerAmp2.html), seeing as he built it... :)
Feline (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14509.0) had the first one & I got mine (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21282.0) after hearing it. The advantage is that you can plug pretty much anything (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22309.0) into it...
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Modeller into a hifi I reckon.
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Ah, the on going low volume br00talz quest.
I more or less gave up. Things that I use for it that I dont utterly hate
Peavey bandit. If you can get hold of one, this is what I have in the lounge as a practice amp. I use it because of all the setups I've had for low volume metal tones, its the one that gives me the least of the problems I usually have. Its not horribly fizzy at low volumes, its got decent thickness and kick in the low end, it doesnt have a grating, empty mid. Its hardly a boutique amp tone, not by a long shot, but its what I've settled on.
Also rans
Powerball. Yes, engl powerball. It sounds the best of all that I've used at talking/whisper volume. But its impractical and pretty much entrenched in the studio, and I dont need to be quiet in there.
Roland cube 30. This is probably in second place, nothing terribly wrong with its low volume high gain sounds so long as your expectations are realistic, but its a bit flat and fizzy too.
ADVT30XL. Decent when cranked just a little bit (have to raise your voice over it type volume) but leans toward grating and harsh at very low vol.
Vypyr 30. Good when cranked more than a little bit (getting on for shouting over it volume, loud hifi type levels), but really thin and clangy when quiet. Also, dreadfull master; the difference between silent and really quite loud is about 1 arc second.
Pod into monitors (adam A7). Ewwwwww....never got a sound I liked out of that, ever. Buzzy, dynamicless.
Vox TL LE into monitors. Better, responds to dynamics well and its surprisingly unfizzy/thick but it was hard to get a crisp attack out of it; always quite a dull, loose sound.
Pod into bandit and vypyr clean. I liked the bandit and vypyr on their own better.
Overdrive pedals into bandit, vypyr and advtxl. Alrightish, but noisy, and messy. I liked the amps alone better.
That more or less covers it. Like I said, basically happy with the humble bandit, which I got for a tenner, over everything else I've tried. Dial it in carefully and it gets me by.
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The Bimbo does not suck tone with heavy attenuation. It's made with highquality components and therefore no bargain, but a great tool for studio and bedroom.
i wasn't talking about the bimbo, just attenuators in general- i haven't tried the bimbo, and that may be true. Does it use an inbuilt attenuator or something more like powerscaling?
EDIT: ^ yeah, I can understand how the powerball would work well. Engls in general work pretty well at low volumes. I hear people saying that two tube amps they've tried don't work at low volumes, and then they extrapolate that out to meaning that all tube amps sound bad at low volumes, which is just rubbish. Now, granted, they'll sound better up loud, but I *only* play at home, and I use tube amps. Now, it depends on what "home volume" means (I don't share any walls with neighbours), how fussy you are, what type of tones you're after etc. etc., but I still prefer tube amps even at (reasonably) low volumes.
Though I should probably add that I didn't have a problem even with things like 5150s at low volumes, so maybe I just don't mind fizz and relying on preamp gain. :lol: But I really don't understand the logic that a lot of people on forums have (not saying the people here, the people here are pretty sensible by internet standards), which says that unless you're getting to run a tube amp at its sweet spot, that you shouldn't have one. In my experience a tube amp even turned down sounds, and more importantly feels, way better than the cheaper solid state practice amps. It's not even a contest.
"Because you can't get 100% perfect tone with a tube amp, you should get a solid state amp which only sounds 30% as good... even though the tube amp turned down would sound 70% as good"... :?
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I'm surprised Martin didn't mention the ideal solution (http://www.martamp.com/GSPowerAmp2.html), seeing as he built it... :)
Feline (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14509.0) had the first one & I got mine (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21282.0) after hearing it. The advantage is that you can plug pretty much anything (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22309.0) into it...
That's a good solution too! :)
Yes, the Bimbo does use Power Scaling, "The Valve" are a licensed manufacturer.
PS is also a good option.
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i like the look of that martamp.
10watts is still loudish though right? probably good for headroom if you want to stick 'anything' into it.
I was looking at some single ended and push pull 2watt power amps using 12AU7's but having no experience of these amps.
10watt SE with the ability to use a bunch of valves might be better than using a 2watt SE or PP power amp.
lowest wattage amp i've played is probably 15 or 20watts. cranked and dirty. sounded great though. but I like the idea of using one to power the O/P from a Pod into a cab.
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Yes, the Bimbo does use Power Scaling, "The Valve" are a licensed manufacturer.
PS is also a good option.
thanks. yeah, then that's not really the same thing as an attenuator. :)
I'm not really sure if you need, or even want, the power amp in meltdown for brootz, though... though I guess it might let you get it turned up enough to where it starts sounding great.
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I will try to POD into the amp. Basically I guess it would show me how the whole setup sounds with a modelling preamp before the Krank - it might work well.
Unfortunately I didn't have any time to pick up the guitar since Sunday :-( and now it's too late to try.
Thanks guys, I'll see what I can do.
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HOW Much for the 5150 and do you have any pics?
wfd666@hotmail.com
q: p
jp
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Well... tried the POD... quite sobering. The Krank sounds even with all the fizz from the low volume setting still better and the touch sensitivity/dynamics is a lot much better. :(
Don't know exactly where to go from here now, I was already developing GAS for those new Line6 floor POD, but now...
The one thing I did notice was that my Overdrive (T-Rex Michael A Batio) into the clean channel did outclass the Pocket Pod in transparency, feel and touch. Maybe a decent stompbox into the clean channel is better?
I'm also a bit worried now what help a different amp would do. Maybe the 20Watt Krank is already about as good as it really gets for bedroom level? I'm beginning to think that MDV might be right.
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You could try one of these.JCM900 MK111.1x12,50 watts swithable to 25 watts.With the gain turned up and the master lowerd,saturation is reached at low levels.(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii98/marantz1300/jcm900mk1112501.jpg)