Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: AndyR on October 10, 2010, 01:09:32 PM
-
Huge-long-post-alert! (You know the drill, AndyR "New" days usually involve lots of text, no pics... ... but I seem to have truely surpassed myself this time!! :oops: :lol:)
Took a little trip down to Jonathan's (Feline Guitars) yesterday and bagged me some BKP goodies for a couple of my strats.
After a few hours soldering and setting up when I got home I was too knackered to post how ecstatic I was about the whole thing. But after demoing the affected guitars to Mrs R over coffee this morning, I'm even more impressed than I was last night.
Here we go, deep breath now...
New Pickups - Apaches
First up, I've finally joined the ranks of the Apache users, and all I can say is... WOW!
If all I could have was one strat with one set of BKPs, I'd still want the ITs in my 60s Roadworn. But I can now understand why many people would plump for Apaches in the same situation.
The guitar is my Roadworn 50s. It's been home to my Sultans for a few months and I've been enjoying it a lot like that. For various reasons I'd decided they were coming out and the obvious replacement was Apache. I was expecting a slightly more rounded "50s" tone, but I was a little afraid that I might lose some of the instant Mark Knoplfleryness.
No worries :D... I'm still in tweak the pickup height mode, and will be on and off for some time, but the MKness is still there, just slightly more "authority" to the tone. The 2 and 4 positions don't "quack" as much (at least not so far) as the Sultans do in the same guitar (by the way, I went for stock middle, not RWRP on both sets). But that wasn't really what I was after, they quack more than I was expecting and that's a bonus. What I was after for this guitar now was the "spank" in the 1, 3 and 5 position. Oh goodness... that's exactly what I've got. It's so good that if this guitar only had a three-way switch, I would not bother installing a 5 way.
I now have a new favourite BKP strat middle pickup. I know lots of folks don't "get" the middle pickup on an SSS strat, don't even use it. But I'm one of those strat players who expects to use the middle as their "stock" tone. I still love my previous favourite, the Sultan middle, but in this guitar, the Apache middle is the absolute bees-knees for me.
New Bridge - BKP Strat Bridge Assembly
So where did the Sultans go? Back to my Fiesta Red CIJ 62. This was #1 until I foolishly tried the Roadworns. She's been somewhat eclipsed since their arrival because she turned out to be a rather dark and muffled strat in comparison...
Not Any More! It's true, that steel-sh1t works in the bridge department! :lol:
I was a bit worried about doing this because I got the CIJ trem floating perfectly a couple of years back, and I've learnt to use a trem because of it. Would steel really make that much difference? And if it ain't broke... But I knew that her sustain block was zinc, and this might be a contributory factor to the darkness... I'd already been through replacing blocks and the problems of Metric versus Imperial measurements on the Roadworns, and the best bet seemed to be to replace the entire assembly with one built to fit together in the first place. The choice was either Callaham/etc or... hey BKP does one don't they?!
So I took the bridge apart and carried the relevant bits to Jonathan. We did some precision measurements* to see if the 6 screw holes on the plate in the BKP unit would marry-up with the existing screws in the guitar's body. The answer was yes, so I bought it.
I didn't realise until this morning quite how good the improvement was. The CIJ still has a meatier tone than the two Roadworns, but now it also has something approaching the top-end and general zing that they have. (Eg. You can actually hear the bass E-string acoustically across a room with the tv on now, it was there, but very flabby before).
Combine this with the re-introduction of the Sultans, and I now seem to have a perfect trio of strats:
- Roadworn 60s with ITs: Instant Rory Gallagher, probably the strat sound ingrained into me, the one I instinctively want or expect to come out when I play stuff. Woody, airy, fluid. Great for aggresive blues-rock. It's the tone I've always been reaching for for nearly 30 years.
- Roadworn 50s with Apaches: Wonderful all-round strattiness. Probably the "other strat sound" I've always dreamt/imagined but never actually owned. Much to be learnt here over the coming months. It is the sound that, when someone plays you a recording, you go "oh yeah, that's a strat" ... I've fought so long to get the other tone, I've never owned a strat that can really do this sound... I do now.
- CIJ 62 with Sultans: A meatier but mellower sort of strat. Is still out-classed when I want the extremes of what the other two offer, but she now stands on her own. I won't feel deprived anymore if this is the only one with playable strings on. And there is one area where this one shines - out of my three, this is the "rock" strat. This is the one that takes gain in a way that I like and can use. The other two survive it, and for other people might even be better at it, but for me this one sounds just peachy when I want to get a bit more raunchy than my usual "just overdriven". Eg, when I first got the Sultans (in this guitar) I said "Robin Trower". It still is, but even more expressive now that the blankets over the speakers have gone
So, all in all, a very successful weekend :D. (And a very enjoyable and fruitful trip to Feline Guitars, as usual. Many thanks Jonathan!)
* We held the two bridge plates up together to see if we could see the light through all six holes at once :lol:.
-
C'mon, c'mon, pics or......
I'm interested in the BKP Strat bridge, there's so little info about it on the site. What details separate it from, say Callaham or the top-spec Gotoh reissues? Is it just a 100% traditional bridge with a screw-in arm, or are there any "modern" refinements?
-
I've never actually touched a Callaham/etc, so I can't make direct comparisons.
However, as far as I can tell it is a 100% trad replacement. This one came with a slightly shorter arm which I'm getting used to (after learning how to deal with a standard long arm!). I think I'd choose the slightly shorter arm out of preference now.
It feels very solid and well made. The CIJ unit it replaces feels as well made but has a less "precision" feel to it. The Mexican (US?) units in the Roadworns do not feel as well made at all.
I ended up only using the block, plate, saddles, and arm.
I've stuck with my set of Raw Vintage springs because I like what they do. I also kept the old set of 6 screws into the body. This was a bit of a decision - I went with the old screws because the new set were somewhat longer and the old set fit perfectly in the body. I reasoned that I'd rather sacrifice any possible tonal advantage to guaranteeing that I don't f*ck the body up in such a strategically important area!
Oh, and I couldn't be @rsed to take the old claw out (thereby avoiding the accompanying struggle to solder the earth to the new one). I might do so at a later date, but I will be utterly amazed if that makes a tonal difference! :lol:
-
well done, i think everything i know about strats is a result of reading your 'long' but informative posts!
-
Great stuff Andy- Apaches are superb for sure but you should definitely change that claw- you know you want to.
-
I also kept the old set of 6 screws into the body. This was a bit of a decision - I went with the old screws because the new set were somewhat longer and the old set fit perfectly in the body. I reasoned that I'd rather sacrifice any possible tonal advantage to guaranteeing that I don't f*ck the body up in such a strategically important area!
Yeah, the Japanese bridges seem to use slightly shorter screws. When I fitted a Callaham bridge on one of my Warmoth bodies the screws reached right through to the trem cavity (just enough for the tip to push through and start cracking the paint). I decided to drill the holes right through, at least it looks tidier than a load of chipped paint!
The Mexican (US?) units in the Roadworns do not feel as well made at all.
That's interesting, because I think the Roadworns use the same bridges as US reissues (I'm pretty sure the other Mexican models use cheaper bridges). That said, I'm not sure about the trem bridges, but the bridge and saddles on my Roadworn Tele Deluxe are definitely the same as US hardtail Strat bridges I've bought separately.
-
Interesting stuff! I have the BKP bridge (reliced by fatboy who uses their bridges) and I'd say it is extremely good. It is as good as my CS strat one so there you go.......
Funnily enough my main gigging guitar has IT's and a BKP bridge (60's roadworn) and its just brilliant. Fattest strat tone you can get (almost) I spent a few hours A/B ing it with my 1960 CS relic with a texas special and whilst the CS looks better and the neck is marginally better there is little in it on tone at all!
BKP bridge is highly recommended and if you want it aged well have a look on fatboys site - his work is of very high quality. In fact when I get a minute I'll do some pics of my roadworn with BKP/fatboy bits and my CS relic too.
All you need now Andy is to get one of those proper fatboy picguards and get rid of the roadworn one which aren't very good if truth be told :shock:
-
:lol:
I've got used to the pickguards on my Roadworns - they attract krud off of me very well and look quite righteous now... so I'll probably not be replacing them.
I think the bridge unit isn't "BKP's" per se, or Fatboy's, or Feline's - my understanding now is that they're sourced from a fine chap who makes them from scratch in the UK (I also got the impression he does aging if required?). I might be wrong about all this though - it's based on the decision making process I went through over the last few weeks. Jonathan happened to have one unit in stock, I was ordering Apaches through him anyway, so I decided to sort out the CIJ bridge at the same time. If the 6 screw holes on the base-plate hadn't married up, plan B was that Jonathan would send the plate and/or block off to the guy that makes the units so that he could machine a steel block that would replace the zinc one in the existing CIJ unit. I was quite keen on replacing the saddles etc as well so a complete unit was a preference, but the highest priority was a steel-block that fitted, and I really didn't want to start messing with the six screw holes in the body!!. (For those who haven't gone down this path, there's a whole minefield of "metric versus imperial measurements" and "various configurations of holes drilled in the block" to trip up the unsuspecting strat owner.)
I've just been giving it a bit of a wang, and I'm well-pleased with it. It's quite hard work getting too excited about a few lumps of metal, but a couple of days of use after installation I've almost forgotten it's in there. It does the job, looks good if you're actually looking at it, and it doesn't draw attention to itself when you're using it - half the battle, I think, where strat trems are concerned :lol:. So I'd definitely use his stuff again. And I'd go through Jonathan to get hold of it - partly because it's a cost-effective route, but mainly because I now know I can get the separate bits that way, even custom made if necessary, and feel a bit more secure that they're all going to fit together as advertised (because I've been waving the relevant pieces at an actual human tech rather than picking bits off a website myself :lol:)
Meanwhile, new pickups, how they bedding in... Sigh... Apaches... wow! Everything 38th Beatle has ever posted on this site under the heading of "Apaches" is true :lol:. I never doubted him, but I somehow never thought I'd get/need a set... Now I've got a guitar with them installed I cannot imagine how I lived without it... I've heard rumour that they're Tim's favourite strat set. I can hear why. This guitar is just SO satisfying to play now. I still want me ITs - that's the tone I'm most used to using to express myself - but the the Apaches guitar is just so "stratocaster" now, there's a big grin everytime I play it. :D
-
They are great Andy. Funnily enough the other guitarist in my band, a Strat player, said to me on Saturday night that my Strat ( i.e. the one with the Apaches) had such a great tone etc etc. He is thinking of getting a set and he is not one to change anything from stock normally.
-
Great review. I have IT's in my strat and I love them, but the Apaches intrigue me now.
-
Andy a intresting read. You always do good indepth reviews. Congrats on the upgrades. It sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun with them three guitars.
Enjoy :lol:
-
i like your strat stories Andy alot, but you realise this thread is just a veneer of lies at the moment..? ;) :P
-
I'm really glad you've discovered the joys of Apache ownership. :) My next Strat upgrade will be a new bridge I think. Might be giving Jonathan a call in the near future having read all this.
-
i like your strat stories Andy alot, but you realise this thread is just a veneer of lies at the moment..? ;) :P
:lol:
I sat here puzzling for 5 minutes... what's he saying??! Then I realised... duh... pics :roll:. Funnily enough, I have been thinking, separate from this thread, that now the three sisters are all BKP'd it's time to borrow the missus's camera for some tasteful girlie group shots...
Since my last post, I've deliberately not touched the Apache'd Roadworn because it's just too easy and I might not get the CIJ dialed in properly. I've just hit some sort of sonic nirvana with the Sultans in the CIJ. Not entirely sure what I've done. I was tweaking pickup heights and amp settings aimlessly in a "it must be in there somewhere" fashion... and suddenly all five positions sound just peachy, utterly peachy.
I'll probably try it again tomorrow and think "hmmm" and start fiddling some more. But mebbe not... I do seem to remember that the 60s Roadworn and ITs went through a lot of messing, loads of good sounds but mebbe it could be better... and then suddenly it was "there". After that I didn't feel the need to touch the heights again, and then when I brought it to the meet in that state and played it through a few things at a decent volume that kind of sealed it with a superstitious "do NOT go near it with a screw-driver in your hand ever again Andrew...". I know it can do all sorts of other things at different pickup heights, but I might not get back what it's doing now.
With a bit of luck that's just happened on the CIJ :D
-
CIJ 62 with Sultans: A meatier but mellower sort of strat. Is still out-classed when I want the extremes of what the other two offer, but she now stands on her own. I won't feel deprived anymore if this is the only one with playable strings on. And there is one area where this one shines - out of my three, this is the "rock" strat. This is the one that takes gain in a way that I like and can use. The other two survive it, and for other people might even be better at it, but for me this one sounds just peachy when I want to get a bit more raunchy than my usual "just overdriven". Eg, when I first got the Sultans (in this guitar) I said "Robin Trower". It still is, but even more expressive now that the blankets over the speakers have gone
i must admit, i'm quite curious to try a full set of sultans due to your recent posts - i've tried the middle and neck on one of phil's strats and liked them, but the bridge sounds like it might be very cool
-
:lol:
I've got used to the pickguards on my Roadworns - they attract krud off of me very well and look quite righteous now... so I'll probably not be replacing them.
I think the bridge unit isn't "BKP's" per se, or Fatboy's, or Feline's - my understanding now is that they're sourced from a fine chap who makes them from scratch in the UK (I also got the impression he does aging if required?). I might be wrong about all this though - it's based on the decision making process I went through over the last few weeks. Jonathan happened to have one unit in stock, I was ordering Apaches through him anyway, so I decided to sort out the CIJ bridge at the same time. If the 6 screw holes on the base-plate hadn't married up, plan B was that Jonathan would send the plate and/or block off to the guy that makes the units so that he could machine a steel block that would replace the zinc one in the existing CIJ unit. I was quite keen on replacing the saddles etc as well so a complete unit was a preference, but the highest priority was a steel-block that fitted, and I really didn't want to start messing with the six screw holes in the body!!. (For those who haven't gone down this path, there's a whole minefield of "metric versus imperial measurements" and "various configurations of holes drilled in the block" to trip up the unsuspecting strat owner.)
I sourced that bridge via BKP and as far as I know so do Fatboy Guitars, although I have spoken directly to the engineer here in the UK that makes them for Tim as I have had him do some other stuff for me (steel Floyd Rose sustain blocks - awesome!)
-
Thanks for that Jonathan, I wasn't sure I was getting my facts straight.
Gwem, yes, I have a funny feeling that Sultans could do a very nice job for you (considering some of your strat-influences, etc).
Everyone else - steel blocks and stuff is the way to go if your geetar doesn't have them and it's slightly "less" than you'd like... you know, that nagging "if only..." doubt about an otherwise yummy instrument. The difference isn't huge, it doesn't turn it into a different guitar tone, it just makes the thing more responsive and you notice, after a while, that you're no longer tw@tting about with the amp controls so much trying to squeeze a bit more "something" out of it.
Anyway, CIJ going very well - bridge bedded in nicely and wanging like a veteran, and the Sultans sounding very good indeed now :D.
I've actually been doing some recording with it instead of the other strats (I wanted the wang bar) and was surprised that it gave me exactly what I wanted with minimal messing (I was expecting to need the Apache'd roadworn for the sound in my head)... and I've even recorded with an amp instead of using a modellor!!!! :o Turned out loads easier than I was expecting... :lol:
It's ended up doing a very Knopflery job on the track. I'll probably post a link to it when it's finished - but be warned "clip" fans, the song dictates quite a bit of post-tracking trickery, so it's not that accurate a representation of raw Sultans :lol:
-
Gwem, yes, I have a funny feeling that Sultans could do a very nice job for you (considering some of your strat-influences, etc).
if you ever fancy having a strat jam let me know. i've three - 23 fret strat with slowhands, the "70s" strat with sinner/trilogies and my "jolly roger" strat with BG50/IT
-
I've posted the finished item in the Players section now: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22543.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22543.0)
I'd be interested in taking you up on that Gwem - but as usual, it's finding the time to do it :lol: