Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: WezV on October 24, 2010, 12:30:56 AM
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i may be crazy for bidding on this but i know i can fix the issues it has
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B51PplBmkKGrHqEOKjsEyLopRozzBMvJRpjfOg_12.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B533JgEGkKGrHqIOKiQEy3Pw5UMiBMvTWB4u_12.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B51QPswBmkKGrHqEOKjcEyZzwOdoBMvJSyQQ_12.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B51QiEWkKGrHqUOKj0EyQjzoP2hBMvJTqB62_12.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B51P9SWkKGrHqMOKiEEyVLYHZuBMvJSWM2LQ_12.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/B53qgWkKGrHqUOKkUEyslgtZyeBMvTUTCuHw_12.jpg)
yes, the body is split. yes, its rather messed up.... but nothing that isnt a rather easy repair
best case:
fix structural issues and its playable
worst case:
fix structural issues ans refinish and make it playable.. and maybe need some original pickups too ( or modern jaydee remakes of JB pickups)
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At least you won't have to relic it. :lol:
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well thats the thing... once i fix the structural issues i have to decide if i want to respay it.... and then i have to decide if i should relic it
you know John birch did the blue to white burst that gibson made famous with the robet guitar.... i am considering that and the green burst along with the original tobacco
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well thats the thing... once i fix the structural issues i have to decide if i want to respay it.... and then i have to decide if i should relic it
you know John birch did the blue to white burst that gibson made famous with the robet guitar.... i am considering that and the green burst along with the original tobacco
That's is going to be a lot of work. Wish you succes. But, blue to white would make a cool guitar. Plus a set of BKP's.
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not sure... plan is to get it playable first, see how it sounds and then get JD to make replicas... I know Phil King cant get tim to make JB replicas so i doubt i stand a chance
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i know you've always fancied working on a john birch! good luck
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I know, i have always been A bit of A JB/JD fan because i am a builder that normally ends up screwing things together on a kitchen table .... although he is 30 years a head of me and his kitchen table is more vintage than mine!
This may be a keeper when its done... and if i could own a zemaitis too i would be a happy man
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would be cool to get some original pickups.
have been playing my JB V alot recently in fact, its a funny guitar.. i don't think its amazingly well built, my agile les paul has arguably better workmanship and playability. can't argue with the sound though of those JB pickups!!
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exchuctly
these things were top notch in the 70's and i know jaydee still makes old boy replicas with old boy pickups so its worth a go if i can get it sorted.
John Birch is a proper guitar hero for me... i know he never built perfect guitars and i know he could be a bit of an arse... but he did build guitars from the ground up with very little help
my guitars hero's seem to be john birch, brian may and tony Zemaitis for this reason.... i doubt i will ever get a zemaitis at this price but if i do the wife will be more pissed of with me than she is now
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i doubt i will ever get a zemaitis at this price but if i do the wife will be more pissed of with me than she is now
And how pissed off is that? :lol:
I like it. The back of the guitar looks awesome with that big circular control rout. Very Heath Robinson.
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I had 4 JBs at one stage, 1 was this LP style which he called Cobra! it had std sized humbuckers they were not very good at all ( this one looks like it had these p/ups) the other three had his own size and style p/ups, two were beautifully built and two average.
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If you do get it, call Alan Exley - he might be able to put a set of original size JB together for you - he rewound one of mine.
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cheers phil - i may do that
first thing will be taking it all apart to assess what needs doing... i am hoping the pickup cavities were not altered for the humbuckers - but we will see. I am quite curious what pickups it has in it, i would guess that bridge pickup is a dimarzio but we will see
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well done taking on that project, its nice to restore someone's work like that.
is there nobody who'd do repros of those old JB pickups? - if Tim isn't interested, maybe Spence at Shed Pickups would be interested or the guys at Wizard Pickups.
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well there is john diggins and possibly alan exley as mentioned above - both worked for john birch. Diggins still makes john birch style pickups for his old boy replicas, Exley seems to hoard old parts
there is also the occasional ebay auction to keep my eye open for - like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1975-John-Birch-Hyperflux-G-Guitar-Pickup-RARE-/130448510622?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e5f564e9e
the problem for most pickup makers is the metal work - i absolutely want the original look if i can get it... i already have normal pickups wound to sound like an Iommi pickup
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well there is john diggins and possibly alan exley as mentioned above - both worked for john birch. Diggins still makes john birch style pickups for his old boy replicas, Exley seems to hoard old parts
there is also the occasional ebay auction to keep my eye open for - like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1975-John-Birch-Hyperflux-G-Guitar-Pickup-RARE-/130448510622?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e5f564e9e
the problem for most pickup makers is the metal work - i absolutely want the original look if i can get it... i already have normal pickups wound to sound like an Iommi pickup
you have humbuckers that sound like the JB pickups Iommi used? - hmmm, do tell - I'm interested.
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i'm interested too :)
gibson iommi, JB fullsize remakes, and bkp warpigs don't count :)
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well they are close enough to get there, but not spot on.
they came from a guy on project guitar who is really just starting to make pickups, but not doing too bad a job. He is also a bit of a birch/diggins fan so is happily aiming for that flavour
i have one of his early A8 fullsize humbuckers - but apparently he has designed a mini-humbucker since then that is much closer to the Iommi sound
http://www.guitar-logistics.com/pickups.html
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You can buy John Birch pickups from them still, however they are full sized and don't sound the same because of the magnetic 'width' of the pickup. Mini humbuckers would be more like the tone, but won't have the attack.
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well they are close enough to get there, but not spot on.
they came from a guy on project guitar who is really just starting to make pickups, but not doing too bad a job. He is also a bit of a birch/diggins fan so is happily aiming for that flavour
i have one of his early A8 fullsize humbuckers - but apparently he has designed a mini-humbucker since then that is much closer to the Iommi sound
http://www.guitar-logistics.com/pickups.html
I like the look of this Vee they're making... (attention gwEm, ha ha...)
(http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll19/restorationad/classic_v/PA080334.jpg)
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yeah, i hate to think how many splinters that thing has given him
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unsure i like that ;)
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looks better than a V2 though - the other V shaped wood sandwich!
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looks better than a V2 though - the other V shaped wood sandwich!
agreed, i like the way the V2 plays though, and the idea of the way it sounds - bright and very similar to a minihumbucker. those boomerang pickups are slightly lifeless though.
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What wood is that V? For some reason it looks to me like it'll weigh a ton....
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it is wenge - so it may well be heavy, cant remember if it got chambered or not
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Its here... and it sounds pretty damn sweet - a lot better than i expected actually. the pickups are old dimarzios with no model codes stamped on the back like i think they have now
Splits are rather serious as they go all the way through and its basically just the jack and back plate holding it together - but i dont mind that as it makes for an easier reglue
pics:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB8.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB6.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB5.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB4.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB3.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JB2.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/Jb1.jpg)
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That's a real "relic"! :)
I love the uniqueness of the parts, like those wacky knobs and switch.
And is the bottom strap button the same piece as the bridge studs? How the hell are those fitted, just pushed in?
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Certainly seems to have character. I look forward to the rescue.
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sketched out the wiring for reference. Its rather odd!
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jbwiring.png)
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Mad, but cool!
Enjoy putting it back to it's former glory mate!
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will do - first mystery to deal with... the wiring has officially got me confused!
looks like the rotary is not doing any mono/stereo operation as would be normal.
Seems to me like it gives
1. Bridge wired normal, neck wired in reverse (out of phase)
2. Bridge wired in reverse, neck wired normal (out of phase)
3. Bridge and neck wired normally (in phase)
God knows whats going on with those tone pots!
Seems like the mini toggle is supposed to be doing the mono/stereo bit - and the toggle is definately not original as there is a bit of butchery around it in the cavity
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I'd be interested in those DiMarzios Wez - my Mockingbird would love them (would get rid of the EMGs in it).
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cool, i will keep you in mind.
It all depends on sourcing some original style ones at a price i can afford. If i cant then the dimarzios will stay as they look and sound pretty damn nice whilst still being period correct
I have emailed alan exley to see if he can help out
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a couple of much better condition John Birch guitars have just gone up on the bay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JOHN-BIRCH-70s-DOUBLE-CUT-/220688183825?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item33620a7211
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JOHN-BIRCH-70s-/220688183199?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item33620a6f9f
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Blimey, they're not cheap! But I have no idea, are those reasonable market prices?
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Blimey, they're not cheap! But I have no idea, are those reasonable market prices?
as far as i know, thats definitely over the odd. philking is the real john birch expert here of course
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I thing about £1200 would be fair shop value for them - but they have got the make an offer button which always makes me think they have listed them at their ideal price.
anyway - back to the electronics. I have contacted Alan Exley but he hasnt got any pickups available, does have original routing patterns for them though if i manage to get a set and need to plug and re-route cavities.
he also explained the thinking with the tone controls:
"the idea was, one way was treble cut & the other way was bass cut. so you could get a good tonal sweep, but in my way of thinking, I think this is a bad idea, cause it made the pick ups sound slightly dull & with less power, but the tone controls seem to be wired up incorrectly anyway. "
i have just had a little play with the wiring and it does seem to be all working. although as alan points out, the tone controls may be wired incorrectly. To me they are oddly placed in the circuit with the signal having to go through them before reaching the volume
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i have updated my current diagram with the way things are currently wired and how they seem to be working
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/JohnBirchwiring.png)
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Decided how you're going to refinish it?
I would be very tempted to leave it looking much as it does now.
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i think i will be, for a while at least
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starting to prep for the reglue. Since i had to remove the controls to make the fix easy i decided to completely strip all parts off to see is there were any surprises to be had. took a load of photos too - all here:
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/
but some highlights:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb21.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb22.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb23.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb24.jpg)
the splits open up nicely, fit back together well and are nice clean maple inside - the best situation for a reglue.
Notice the finish is really thick. its really going to highlight the location of the splits even when re-glued. making me lean towards the refinish, should be able to get the splits invisible!
bridge pickup is 13.23k, neck is 7.89k - pretty much confirming they are an old Dimarzio super distortion/Paf set with rectangular feet
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bridge pickup is 13.23k, neck is 7.89k - pretty much confirming they are an old Dimarzio super distortion/Paf set with rectangular feet
aww maaaan, they would SO rock in my Mockingbird - thats what Rico used in the old days. I giggied my Mockingbird last night and the tone with the EMGs was just too smooth for me, they just have no cut.
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you have first dibs if i do change them.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb29.jpg)
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you have first dibs if i do change them.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb29.jpg)
champion :D
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if i do go for a refin i see three options... the tobacco sunburst to make it original
or one of these finishes also offered by john birch:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/Capture1.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/Capture2.jpg)
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Anything but the green :D
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rather like the green
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Original tobacco sunburst rocks.
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Original tobacco sunburst rocks.
Yeah, I like the original finish too.
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Original tobacco sunburst rocks.
Yeah, I like the original finish too.
another one for tobacco sunburst - not a fan of the other 'bursts', too weird.
a silverburst would totally rule, but of course would not be a finish Birch ever did (or did he?)
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he did do silver:
(http://www.whitewolfzone.co.uk/images/starguitar.jpg)
(http://www.crazeeworld.plus.com/slade/images/slade_gear/superyob_guitarist_06.jpg)
but i have not seen a silverburst
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I didn't know he did the original Super Yob. The bloke in Warwick Guitars told me that the one in there was the original... he's got the original (wooden) distortocaster too
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Cup-a-soup!
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well, i finally got this back together. - although i still need to remake the backplate
i did the finish myself so its far from perfect, and you will notice it still has the dimarzio p-ups. thats because i still have not sourced any of the originals - but this sounds so good i dont really mind at all
it ended up solid black as the cracks had a bit too much discolouration to be able to hide - they went back together perfectly, but were still too noticeable to have on display and i decided black would be pretty cool anyway
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/P1000702.jpg)
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black! - simple! classic! :lol:
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That looks epic, Wez.
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Well that's scrubbed up lovely. I think the black really suits it. Proper job.
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Top job Wez!
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I'd forgotten about this one. Looks good, and it certainly has the cool factor.
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That has come up well.
At first I thought "nah, I don't like it...". It reminded me of the early to mid 80s when my friends and I were starting out. The various odd and miscellaneous guitars we were able to acquire when what we really wanted were "real" Les Pauls and Strats and whatevers. Then I realised that's part of it's appeal... you've even left it with "period correct" untrimmed strings :lol:
Like Philly says - it has the cool factor.
Lovely piece of work sir :D
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Looks great to me plus it gains a point for made in the UK.
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It looks great Wez. It reminds me a bit of my JB (only mine's double cutaway!).
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Very nice!
but I have to ask.. how on earth does one split a guitar body in half like that?
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wood will split along its length relatively easy if its hit right, the large control cavity provided a weaker point to help it do so
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/John%20birch%20singlecut/jb20.jpg)
best guess is it got a massive knock at the jack socket end and the pressure followed the grain.
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Thought that would polish out :lol:
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Thought that would polish out :lol:
:lol: Yep, nothing that a bit of briwax wouldn't have sorted :roll:
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yeah i know, i do have a tendancy to over do these simple fixes ;)
its been suggested i should have kept the original finish and had it as a relic, which i may have been tempted to do if it was not flaking off in sharp shards all down the neck.
its also been refrettedas they were pretty worn before. the neck was really straight though, which is a surprise given its damage when i started.
it sounds really awesome, enough to alter my preconceptions about solid maple guitars.. lots of clarity- but not harsh at all. not pushed the ditortion yet but its incredibly responsive and almost hifi played clean
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bit of an update on this
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/46683_10151271411593693_800989192_n_zps014d0fa9.jpg)
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it sounds really awesome, enough to alter my preconceptions about solid maple guitars.. lots of clarity- but not harsh at all. not pushed the ditortion yet but its incredibly responsive and almost hifi played clean
this is amusing given
a) the forums recent discussions on the (un)importance of wood in the tone of a guitar
b) John Birch's ideas that wood didnt matter as long as the electronics were done right
I would describe the tone exactly the same way i did back before I had the John Birch pickups. I am not saying it sounds the same, because it doesn't, but i used those same terms with someone earlier about its new sound.
Hi-fi ish, clarity, responsive - surprisingly un-harsh. so is that the pickups or the guitar????
They are definitely quieter than the dimarzio's, completely noise free and seem more transparent. still need to get the bridge pickup a bit higher, but i had to make the rings from scratch so need to redo that one a bit
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i've found the same with a couple of almost entirely maple guitars. you expect it to be very bright, but instead it's, as you say, "hi-fi". very balanced in the middle, no sharp highs or big low end. although it can have a sort of plasticky sound, if that makes sense?
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Told you it would polish out :lol: