Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: monkeywalker on December 19, 2005, 02:48:13 PM
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here's a bit of advice to anyone thinking of buying a Gibson SG standard.
in december 2002 i bought tokai's japanese made copy of the SG standard from sound control in manchester for £560 includind a hard case, strap, spare set of strings and polishing cloth. since then i have had epiphone's, fenders ( japanese), rickenbackers. and i've played a million and one special,standard and custom gibson SG's, and i can honestly say that in comparison to my Tokai, the Gibson's are absolutely cr@p! the build quality, playability and sound are not even nearly as good and i wouldn't pay more than £100 for even a custom version.
i don't want to make any enemies but is it just me or is the quality of Gibson guitars abismal? i like to think that when i pay £1300 for a les paul that it would at least have the nut cut deep enough so that when you bend the strings they stay in the grooves.i recently tried out several gibsons inluding three standard les pauls,es335 and a les paul studio, all of which were worth nothing like the price tag sugested. is it just me and some of the sound control team who think this?
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It's not just you.
The problem is that people keep buying them. Some people would buy a turd if it had a Gibson logo on it.
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I realized thet gibsons arn't all that great all the time and your just paying for the name on the headstock (paying for the history of gibson). I done with trying to buy a gibson. I can build a quality guitar that is made better than a gibson with my specifics from warmoth for a third of the price.
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you are definatly right about the turd thing. my uncle is insisting on getting a les paul standard this coming January, i expected better of him but despite my best efforts he still thinks it's the holy grail cos it's a Gibson.
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Some people would buy a turd if it had a Gibson logo on it.
And they do just that :lol: I've only played a handful of Gibson LP's at music live and I really wasnt impressed. I prefer the feel of the neck on my Epiphone by far!
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I did wonder why I own 2 Japanese built Tokai Love Rocks... ;)
I've had an LP Studio, although the build quality wasn't great (understatement, more like a Fri afternoon @ 16:30 special!), the playability of it was second to none. :(
Just for the record... Tokai's are ace. ;) IMO of course...
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It's not just you.
The problem is that people keep buying them. Some people would buy a turd if it had a Gibson logo on it.
:twisted: :roll: :P
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hahahahahhaha!
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i really like the Gibsons that I've played generally! they are definately overpriced, but what else do you guys have against them?
Don't like the finishes on the necks either...
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Well I am not a fan being a committed Fender player though Fender are capable of making lemons too. I have played many Gibson's over the years and I have mixed thoughts. A guy I knew bought a 335 and spent nearly £2000.00 on it. It played awfully and the finish was not good. I have another mate who has an old 1960's 335 which is as different to the new one as could be. I wouldn't mind a Goldtop but, as has been suggested above, I'd be inclined to look at a Tokai. I have played a few Epi's too and for the money, they seem pretty good.
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Some people would buy a turd if it had a Gibson logo on it.
And they do just that :lol: I've only played a handful of Gibson LP's at music live and I really wasnt impressed. I prefer the feel of the neck on my Epiphone by far!
yah same here. Ive played an assload of Gibsons and none of them have realy been any better(or worse) than my epi SG Custom.
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Some people would buy a turd if it had a Gibson logo on it.
And they do just that :lol: I've only played a handful of Gibson LP's at music live and I really wasnt impressed. I prefer the feel of the neck on my Epiphone by far!
yah same here. Ive played an assload of Gibsons and none of them have realy been any better(or worse) than my epi SG Custom.
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(http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/files/gibbo_848.jpg)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
rotflmao
That's priceless!
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i didnt like my LP Classic, it was a new one..
however, if i could find an older one, maybe a Custom 25/50 anniversary id definitely pay the cash for it.... some gibsons are amazing.
Get a good one and you will never look back.. but these days trying to find a decent one is tough, either 2nd hand and overpriced or new and shoddy :(
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In the early 80s I went to buy a strat - and ended up with a Squier JV over all others.
I would never have gone for a Fender - it was a Tokai or a JV as Fender's were cr@p.
It now looks like Fender have moved on and read the writing on the wall, but Gibson have just rested on old laurels
Tokai's rule!
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I've heard that Fender have supposed to have improved, but you have to guess at why they don't export many Japanese made instruments to Europe and the US. I'm pretty certain I've read they are made in the Tokai factory.
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(http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/files/gibbo_848.jpg)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
rotflmao
That's priceless!
Note: If you're selling gear please use the Seconds Out forum - could you confirm if it's a custom or standard - looks like it could do with refretting (or reflushing) - would you consider part exchange? (Fender Turdecaster)
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i didnt like my LP Classic, it was a new one..
however, if i could find an older one, maybe a Custom 25/50 anniversary id definitely pay the cash for it.... some gibsons are amazing.
Get a good one and you will never look back.. but these days trying to find a decent one is tough, either 2nd hand and overpriced or new and shoddy :(
Yeah I hear older "vintage" Gibsons are really good guitars. However, paying that much for em, I'd be scared to leave the house with it! Also Tellboy, that is hilarious :lol:
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Yeah I hear older "vintage" Gibsons are really good guitars. However, paying that much for em, I'd be scared to leave the house with it!
The problem is that they arent. Ask any of the old boys who collect vintage Ibanez guitars. The "Lawsuit" copy myth came about because Ibanez were using cheap wood with cheap parts and still putting out a product that basically gets the same comments that all the Japanese so called copies get now.
"really good for the money"
"heaps better to play than a guitar twice its price"
very little has changed in fifty years..... its the potential to find a guitar that really does live up to its price tag combined with the history of the brand name that commands the price.
Some Gibsons are really "that" good.
Oh yeah and my '04 American deluxe strat is "really that good" so for anyone thinking Fender are building better instruments nowadays. Your right.
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We see a lot of new Gibson's and they do seem a little bit iffy as they leave the factory
BUT - we have found that a damn good fret dress and set up (and fit some BKPs if you wish) will make it a much better guitar.
Then they just need playing in a lot.
So don't write off new guitars but do consider that they all benefit from some careful setup and tweaking - whether you do it yourself or take it to a guitar tech/builder.
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I agree...
I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio from 2000 and an Edwards Les Paul Standard from 2004, the Edwards wins hands down.
Both in the same price bracket once you consider that the Edwards was shipped from Japan and I had to pay Import Tax & Customs, both very different. Edwards has once piece body & neck, long neck tenon, proper pot cavity (no steel plate inside), came with SD's and it has a a nitrocellulose finish. The flame is a thin veneer over plain maple, but it's still solid maple underneath.
Altogether the Edwards is finished neater, the fretwork is a big improvement on the Gibson and the the Edwards setup was perfect despite travelling half way round the world. It is just nice to play, sounds better and looks better, it even converted a mate (a RG fan) to like LPs.
Of course not all Gibsons are naff, and I'm certainly not about to get rid of mine, but the general consensus is that often there are better guitars to be had.
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I played a few gibsons, some from a shop and one of them a friends studio sg.
I played a few lps, and they smelt awful, haha! They didnt play well and the strings were fuzzing.... I asked why, and they said it was a shipping problem! Couple of chips in the wood too.
My friends sg, well... I dont say this to his face, but, its just horrible to play. The neck is uncomfortable and awkward. The finish is awful and it feels so cheap. There are unfinished bits of body poking out by the neck, and the pickups...well....its too painful.
I really dont like Gibsons, i have had too many bad experiences with them, not to mention their tone. >.<
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well - i've got an epi les paul standard and a shine 335 dot. the finish on both are top class and with the addition of good pickups and better quality electrics, i can't fault either in any way. from what i've read on this thread, the new gibsons appear to require the same amount of pre-play setup that most take for granted with the epi type range.
at less than a grand for both guitars including pickup replacement, i'm more than happy to avoid the gibbo marketing 'appeal'
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We see a lot of new Gibson's and they do seem a little bit iffy as they leave the factory
BUT - we have found that a damn good fret dress and set up (and fit some BKPs if you wish) will make it a much better guitar.
Then they just need playing in a lot.
So don't write off new guitars but do consider that they all benefit from some careful setup and tweaking - whether you do it yourself or take it to a guitar tech/builder.
This is really true, playing in and getting to know a guitar makes a huge difference, as does having a good fret job. But when you're laying down the kind of cash you do for a new Gibson you should get a guitar that needs no work, and only minimal breaking in, not a work in progress!
Now I will say that Tokai SGs are truly excellent, I've played one through a Laney and it really kicked ass, and if I saw a Tokai SG with soapbars I'd seriously consider it, but for £799 I picked up a 67 junior, and that's handsdown one of the nicest sounding instruments I've come across, ever. Lord knows what kind of sonic nirvana is yet possible with Tim's tonal wizardry.
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We see a lot of new Gibson's and they do seem a little bit iffy as they leave the factory
BUT - we have found that a damn good fret dress and set up (and fit some BKPs if you wish) will make it a much better guitar.
Then they just need playing in a lot.
So don't write off new guitars but do consider that they all benefit from some careful setup and tweaking - whether you do it yourself or take it to a guitar tech/builder.
This is really true, playing in and getting to know a guitar makes a huge difference, as does having a good fret job. But when you're laying down the kind of cash you do for a new Gibson you should get a guitar that needs no work, and only minimal breaking in, not a work in progress!
Now I will say that Tokai SGs are truly excellent, I've played one through a Laney and it really kicked ass, and if I saw a Tokai SG with soapbars I'd seriously consider it, but for £799 I picked up a 67 junior, and that's handsdown one of the nicest sounding instruments I've come across, ever. Lord knows what kind of sonic nirvana is yet possible with Tim's tonal wizardry.
WOW,,,Maybe Gibson is sending the "Odd" les pauls to the Uk,maybee pissed that your lb is higher than our dollar?I feel that some here say there is no difference between a EPI,and a Gibson?I have yet to hear a EPIPHONE "COPY" sound as good as a LESPAUL.They are similar,BUT,Gibsons have a much more RIcher Sound Quality!When you buy a "NEW" Gibson,understand that They Build to spec?The nuts are "Spec",the saddles are spec,down to the height on the strings"SPEC".And what about the tuning machines,,,,SPEC!To really get the best out of your "lb",try setting it up the way your "other guitars are,like a true IVORY Nut,BETTER Saddles-RECUT,And a calibration on the neck,to start.Dont forget the intonation,and a fresh set of your "favorite"strings,and condition the fretboard,so you dont get soo much warpage on the neck,when you get in different climates.Not to mention that they have different neck sizes,50's(Baseball bat,if thats your thang),60's for a slimmer feel.I have never heard a EPI sound Quite as "FUll".as a LesPaul.Similiar.Any sales guy that wants to sell you a Paul for 1400lbs,shillings,whatever,before you play it,have him put some strings on it,and do a minor set up,all of which can take 10 minutes?If he don't,use the PAul against his cranium!Now Les PAuls ARE great for that,I Know!And still will be in tune!
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A real Gibson-killer, and a true good LP:
(http://cedric.bertin.9online.fr/image/ESP_Nav1.jpg)
ESP Custom Shop is the best. Good bye Gibson.
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The Navigator is a step or two up from my Edwards, I can only imagine how good that thing is, it is a beauty btw.
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Now thats what a Les Paul should look like - most of the Gibson 58/59 replica LP's I see have way too much figuring on the maple, they just don't look realistic, but that one does. How much is it if you're buying on in the UK?
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WOW,,,Maybe Gibson is sending the "Odd" les pauls to the Uk
I think that can be true in many cases. I've heard of B-Stock being sold as A-Stock over here. I don't think the factory setup is any better for the instruments in the US than the ones in the UK. A guitar tech in the US that I chat with says in terms of instant playability the instruments from the US are no better than the ones from Korea. Obviously that doesn't mean they are the same standard. The nut on my Korean PRS was shockingly badly cut. Perhaps it is the fault of the shops over here not setting up the instruments properly, but Gibson guitars are obscenely expensive compared with the Japanese Tokai's - its not as though the standard of living in Japan is worse.
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what exactly do you mean when you say spec motormouth?
and either way they shouldn't be built to a spec that is so shoddy that when you play them they fall apart in your hands. i know some guy who went to my school years back.he was so rich it hurt.he went over to the states and bought a strat, a custom shop esquire and a standard LP.the fender's were pretty good although the custom shop was a little less playable then you would hope for such a price.
the LP on the other hand was the biggest pile of cr@p i've ever played in my life without exception.he brought it to my house not long after he got it and when i plugged it in nothing happened. he said "oh yeah, sometimes it doesn't work and it just makes that crackling noise for a while" he was only 14 at the time but fairly knowledgeable and particular about his guitars. his dad had a couple of Grestches which were apparently awesome. anyway i opened up the back for him and the wiring was really bad, they were literally hanging by a thread. they'd even used a 250k tone pot for the bass instead of a 500k. it was gibson stuff to. i thought maybe he'd gone second hand for some reason but no straight off the poduction line.
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Now thats what a Les Paul should look like - most of the Gibson 58/59 replica LP's I see have way too much figuring on the maple, they just don't look realistic, but that one does. How much is it if you're buying on in the UK?
With import taxes and shipping: about 4000 euros (on special order, maybe 3000-3500 euros if you buy it directly). Pricier than Gibson itself. But with Gibson you pay the name ALOT. With ESP, all the money go to the guitar.
Sure it's pricey but it's made by real luthiers, in a real Custom Shop (not the Fender or Gibson CS). Woods are high grade, the nitrocellulosic finish is 3 steps over the Gibsons one (very sticky). Seth lover pickups. And so on.
Edwards are good guitars. But they really don't even compare to the Navigator.
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For 4000 Euros you can have something custom built by a luthier. (call Feline)
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Nope I do not have problems with my Gibsons. It is like saying I had a bad orgasm. :)
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I haven't personally tried a Gibson, so I really can't say with experience. However, I have always wondered what is so special about gibsons, their prices are so over the top that it's not possible to maintain a reasonable price/quality -ratio. Foremost the signature models, they are like 6000 euros! With that price, the guitar should other than play like a dream, turn you into a guitar god, get you a record deal and make you an international music icon. I just can't believe that Gibson could be *that damn good*.
btw. ESP rocks like no other...
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/pupp3t/esp.jpg)
ESP SV Standard (yet to be retrofitted with BKP)
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Any signature of the rack, does not have the same stuff as the dude that gives it the name. The marketing machine that is behind is what sells the guitar. I do think that if you have an strong foundation, say a good quality piece of wood for example, you can just start from there on changing according to your likeness, for instances pot, pickups. I certainly think that we can be flexible when it comes to getting the best possible tone. A little bit from here, and a bit from there. But we have to have a good piece to start with. What we are taking out from the original instrument is pure funcional cosmetics. It seems that what we do with it afterward call it individuality is what makes it valuable. :)
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I haven't personally tried a Gibson, so I really can't say with experience. However, I have always wondered what is so special about gibsons, their prices are so over the top that it's not possible to maintain a reasonable price/quality -ratio. Foremost the signature models, they are like 6000 euros! With that price, the guitar should other than play like a dream, turn you into a guitar god, get you a record deal and make you an international music icon. I just can't believe that Gibson could be *that damn good*.
btw. ESP rocks like no other...
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/pupp3t/esp.jpg)
ESP SV Standard (yet to be retrofitted with BKP)
Theres cheaper ones than that!If thats the case,what are you doing here?Looking for better pickups for your ESP,that the sterile Emg could not just reach real?And to prove my point,I was here,For IMPROVEMENTS to my piece of "WOOD"=A Gibson.Pesonal Preference Varies,along with "Improvements".
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what exactly do you mean when you say spec motormouth?
and either way they shouldn't be built to a spec that is so shoddy that when you play them they fall apart in your hands. i know some guy who went to my school years back.he was so rich it hurt.he went over to the states and bought a strat, a custom shop esquire and a standard LP.the fender's were pretty good although the custom shop was a little less playable then you would hope for such a price.
the LP on the other hand was the biggest pile of cr@p i've ever played in my life without exception.he brought it to my house not long after he got it and when i plugged it in nothing happened. he said "oh yeah, sometimes it doesn't work and it just makes that crackling noise for a while" he was only 14 at the time but fairly knowledgeable and particular about his guitars. his dad had a couple of Grestches which were apparently awesome. anyway i opened up the back for him and the wiring was really bad, they were literally hanging by a thread. they'd even used a 250k tone pot for the bass instead of a 500k. it was gibson stuff to. i thought maybe he'd gone second hand for some reason but no straight off the poduction line.
"SPEC",over here,is considered the "industry,or companny STANDARD",MEANING,the company cut everything the Same,reguardless of neck type,Etc,,,,,,.......
shitety,Yes! I worked for the biggest Chain in the US (Guitar Center),and 9/10 people who bought Gibsons,knew that they Needed Re adjusted,thats the first thing they do HERE.As far as pots,Email gibson,They willl tell you they use 300 k's as standard!You and i know,that would'nt nessesarily be the best.HUGE DIFFERENCE!Funny,you guys are in a great position!The pound is soooo high,with my discount,i could Probably get a NEW LP standard for $1100.00 American?Your cost would be Very low,,,,,,Maybee 700lbs?Bottom line.No epi will ever beat out a Paul.period!
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what exactly do you mean when you say spec motormouth?
and either way they shouldn't be built to a spec that is so shoddy that when you play them they fall apart in your hands. i know some guy who went to my school years back.he was so rich it hurt.he went over to the states and bought a strat, a custom shop esquire and a standard LP.the fender's were pretty good although the custom shop was a little less playable then you would hope for such a price.
the LP on the other hand was the biggest pile of cr@p i've ever played in my life without exception.he brought it to my house not long after he got it and when i plugged it in nothing happened. he said "oh yeah, sometimes it doesn't work and it just makes that crackling noise for a while" he was only 14 at the time but fairly knowledgeable and particular about his guitars. his dad had a couple of Grestches which were apparently awesome. anyway i opened up the back for him and the wiring was really bad, they were literally hanging by a thread. they'd even used a 250k tone pot for the bass instead of a 500k. it was gibson stuff to. i thought maybe he'd gone second hand for some reason but no straight off the poduction line.
"SPEC",over here,is considered the "industry,or companny STANDARD",MEANING,the company cut everything the Same,reguardless of neck type,Etc,,,,,,.......
shitety,Yes! I worked for the biggest Chain in the US (Guitar Center),and 9/10 people who bought Gibsons,knew that they Needed Re adjusted,thats the first thing they do HERE.As far as pots,Email gibson,They willl tell you they use 300 k's as standard!You and i know,that would'nt nessesarily be the best.HUGE DIFFERENCE!Funny,you guys are in a great position!The pound is soooo high,with my discount,i could Probably get a NEW LP standard for $1100.00 American?Your cost would be Very low,,,,,,Maybee 700lbs?Bottom line.No epi will ever beat out a Paul.period!
Your enthusiasmic speech reminds me of someone... oh yeah, Mussolini.
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what exactly do you mean when you say spec motormouth?
and either way they shouldn't be built to a spec that is so shoddy that when you play them they fall apart in your hands. i know some guy who went to my school years back.he was so rich it hurt.he went over to the states and bought a strat, a custom shop esquire and a standard LP.the fender's were pretty good although the custom shop was a little less playable then you would hope for such a price.
the LP on the other hand was the biggest pile of cr@p i've ever played in my life without exception.he brought it to my house not long after he got it and when i plugged it in nothing happened. he said "oh yeah, sometimes it doesn't work and it just makes that crackling noise for a while" he was only 14 at the time but fairly knowledgeable and particular about his guitars. his dad had a couple of Grestches which were apparently awesome. anyway i opened up the back for him and the wiring was really bad, they were literally hanging by a thread. they'd even used a 250k tone pot for the bass instead of a 500k. it was gibson stuff to. i thought maybe he'd gone second hand for some reason but no straight off the poduction line.
"SPEC",over here,is considered the "industry,or companny STANDARD",MEANING,the company cut everything the Same,reguardless of neck type,Etc,,,,,,.......
shitety,Yes! I worked for the biggest Chain in the US (Guitar Center),and 9/10 people who bought Gibsons,knew that they Needed Re adjusted,thats the first thing they do HERE.As far as pots,Email gibson,They willl tell you they use 300 k's as standard!You and i know,that would'nt nessesarily be the best.HUGE DIFFERENCE!Funny,you guys are in a great position!The pound is soooo high,with my discount,i could Probably get a NEW LP standard for $1100.00 American?Your cost would be Very low,,,,,,Maybee 700lbs?Bottom line.No epi will ever beat out a Paul.period!
Your enthusiasmic speech reminds me of someone... oh yeah, Mussolini.
Few people would want to ship here, you need to add customs + VAT taxes, it's not good, no matter how high the pound is. Here a LP standard is about 1100 pounds I think.
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It's not just a setup. All guitars need a setup to your personal preferences. What bugs me is the sloppy craftmanship and the price tag.
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yes, I agree- the price tag is out of hand. In my opinion,until the late 70s the Gibson guitars were still made with top quality material and the trend changed in the 80s and 90s and the quality dropped. I've heard than in Europe the stores don't carry such a large stock of guitars as they do here in the USA- if that's the case, that's a shame since it is very important to try as many guitars as possible in order to find that "one" with potential....My next step is to purchase custom shop guitars. I would like to have Feline, Legra, Drac and RSGuitarworks guitars. Merry Christmas!!!
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Nope I do not have problems with my Gibsons. It is like saying I had a bad orgasm. :)
But the Navigator are made by luthier! (on special order if needed, you can choose what you want) :wink:
It's even better than a lot of luthier's work (the nitrocellulosic finish is hard to do properly, very few luthier can do it correctly... I don't even know if Feline guitar do it... Gibson ones are very sticky. Bad.).
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Thanks C777. If it is good pass it around :wink:
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Ultimately, I think if you like how a guitar plays, then it's a good guitar. I've got a '90 Gibson LP Std, and it's a good guitar. Mind you, I bought it in the States when I lived there, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay the extra I'd have to in the UK to get the same guitar! But hey, I've played plenty of worse guitars, and probably a few better ones (though more expensive ;)). I probably wouldn't buy another Gibson, but I've already got one :).
If you're in the US, you can probably check around and find a used Gibson that plays nice at a reasonable price. But if you're not in the US, I'd definitely think you can find another make of guitar that will probably get you better quality for the price!