Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: MDV on November 23, 2010, 09:58:43 PM
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new acoustic treatment day
This is my studio.
Its made of gaffa tape, and black.
Seriously though...
The traps are all rockwool; 140kg/m^3, 10cm thick in the corners for the lowest of the lows, the rest are 60kg/m^3 ~10 cm off the wall at main reflection and nodal points. Also, there are angled slabs of the same under them to catch some of the wall-corner build up. The entire wall area behind the desk and the monitors has a layer of rockwool (right up against the wall in this case) for the length-wise modes and early reflections off the monitors.
The sound in here is much more linear and much, much more resolved and clear now. Love it. Pretty cheap too. Seriously improved sound out of the amps as well; far tighter and, somewhat uexpectedly, livelier.
Not pictured: the rockwool fort I made to encase the front of the cab and mics. Supposed to do two things; diminish reflections back to the mics so low end is less obfuscated and to diminish the volume in the room so I can track in there without having to have phones at silly level (I like not being deaf!). At the latter its superb; only a rumble escapes, easily ignored. I havent tested the intelligability improvment yet though; havent miced yet.
A short tour.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0077.jpg)
My amps
All pretty self explanatory. Mics are down the side of the desk: AT4050, 2x SM57, 2x NT1a, i5, MD421, F14.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0080.jpg)
Some of my gizmos and headphones. Fireface 800, radial phazer, J48 and X-Amp, little labs red eye just off to the side, Phones; senn HD25 and RS140, AT ATH-M50, Ultrasone Pro750, and dont underestimate the 24" monitor for dealing with the information density in a DAW. I wish I had two. Adam A7s and a sub 8 (under the desk...yes ben I know you arent supposed to put them there, but thats where it works best in here).
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0079.jpg)
Some guitars. And Optimash Prime, in his continual state of thumbs-up approval.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0078.jpg)
Rear wall trapping, Ubercab, with V30s and Swamp thangs, on an Auralex Gramma.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/D_Man666/DSCF0082.jpg)
Edit - silly mistake.
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very nice. :D
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Thanks :)
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Fernando: Jealous mode ON
Hope someday I can go to a house...
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ner ner ner ner ner ;)
Really, really struggling for space in here, actually. The size makes the acoustics worse too (4m x 2.7m x 2.5m ewww, all of which have a mode at about 120hz, so I get HUGE buildup there, which this and speaker placement have only just and so leveled out) with brick walls (very reflective).
Just got a bunch of voxengo plugins as well. Elephant, soniformer, glissEQ, HarmonyEQ and Voxformer. Very impressive. Oh yes. Very impressive indeed. A steal for what they do and how they sound.
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my entire apartment is like 55mē (2 dorms) and there is people under and above it...
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I think duck tape has the best tone though some say the mids are a bit overbearing.
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my entire apartment is like 55mē (2 dorms) and there is people under and above it...
This room is about 11m^2.
And I have neighbours, but they always greet me with a smile and never complain (though I've told them they should if I bother them; I'm not out to be a pain in the arse, I'm just a bit loud). Maybe they think I'm nuts?
The gaffa tape has a more transparent top end, see?
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The gaffa tape has a more transparent top end, see?
Silver gaffa has a nicer 'sheen' to your tone :D
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Sweet collection of amps. Jealous :D
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Ta :)
But black gaffa tape has a darker, meaner sound.
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Is jealous - man what's your job that's a lot of good gear.
The voxengo plugs are great, got a few myself. I work atm as a class assistant teaching Mastering and I've found Elephant to be a much better limiter than things that are up to ten times the price like the overrated piece of jobby that is the waves L2.
I think the reason that it might seem somewhat livelier though it might seem like inverted logic is that your losing the build of early reflections in a small space that cause a blur so it's easier to hear the depth of the space the instruments are recorded in.
Just bought some primacoustic stuff that still has to go up on the walls but one of my monitors (also Adams A7s) just died so I need to get that fixed, had a look inside myself but can't see any obvious problems in the circuitry that I could fix myself.
I'm actually about to apply for a PhD in Acoustic research in order to create a better listening environment so if I'm accepted and do have any discoveries then I'll let you know.
Apart from the obvious sub problem you might want to move the screen back a little, kinda messes up the stereo imaging.
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My job was....complicated. I'd have to explain half the nuclear fuel cycle to tell you what it was, but I quit anyway. 'Technical and Operations advisor for the Vitrification of Highly Active Nuclear Waste'. It was boring. Now, audio/mix engineer, guitar tech and occasional guitar teacher (if I feel a potential pupil is going in a direction I can really help them with).
I guessed the same explantation for the additional liveliness, after I heard it. I just didnt expect it.
Trust me, the sub is where it is for a very good reason - the seperation between the monitors and sub is part of how I'm dealing with my gargantuan ~120hz buildup. It can go in a corner, but i found it has an adverse effect on the stereo field at the crossover I require (a little too high to be non-directional). I may experiment again, now that I have better treatment, however.
Accepted on the monitor (visual) location, I realise that, its only where it is because I had to dig around in the cabling thats behind it.
Elephant is in particular superb. The eqs are a little odd, but they work really well too; you can actually get a nice bit of transient emphasis out of them (due to their dynamics influence), it can add lots of punch and clarity.
Best of luck with the PhD! Going into acoustics proper is something I've considered, since my degree is physics and I did a lot of acoustic analysis in my previous professional capacity anyway. Do let us know things you find, I for one will be most interested.
Edit: spelling, of the particularly egregious sentence-meaning-changing kind
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Is that an Arcam CD73?
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^ could be wrong, but I can't see anywhere to put your coffee cup..?
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Is that an Arcam CD73?
Yes.
And very nice it is too through the adams. Well spotted!
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^ could be wrong, but I can't see anywhere to put your coffee cup..?
^ this guy knows his priorities!!!
Mark how you do mix bass? record direct, copy the track and add distortion on the copy? if so how do you EQ it and etc
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DI and a double with severe and and low cut and filthy distortion added and stereo widened to blend with the guitars.
I tend to fit the main bass in from about 60 to 120, just above the bottom of the kick, and blended with the 1st overtone of the lowest pitch of the gutiars (b, for me, normally, so about 120Hz). 1-ish through 2-ish k for pick attack and some cut from 150-200ish to about 700 to let the guitars low mids and mid come through.
I also more or less smash the $%&# out of both of them (6:1 or more, usually round 20ms attack, realease to track tempo), and I'm much more willing to record a bass in tiny pieces and assemble a bassline; its consistency and timing, even if its really low, is part of the backbone and glue of the track.
I'm looking to ways to improve this situation with impulses and LF exciters. I'll be experimenting in a track I'm currently recording. I say currently, I started ages ago, stopped, redid the studio, played with some mixes for people, and now I'm going back to it.
These are, however, just guidelines and starting points. You need to listen, and make reasonably intelligent changes to close the gap between how it sounds and how you want it to sound.
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nice studio,
I've also treated mine with lots of bass trapping, I used wickes heavy density insulation butthey are just plonked in the corners from floor to ceiling for the time being until I make some frames for them and get the fabric, I plan to eventually have around 10 broadband bass traps, but it should be worth the effort, I know what you mean about bass trapping making the high frequencies cleaner, they become less harsh
have you used any diffusion in there?
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I always liked mixing DI'd and mic'd bass amps for the best results, I found that ONLY DI'ing the bass gave for a poor bass tone, imo.
I also like 12" speakers for bass, just 'sits' really nice in the mix.
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nice studio,
I've also treated mine with lots of bass trapping, I used wickes heavy density insulation butthey are just plonked in the corners from floor to ceiling for the time being until I make some frames for them and get the fabric, I plan to eventually have around 10 broadband bass traps, but it should be worth the effort, I know what you mean about bass trapping making the high frequencies cleaner, they become less harsh
have you used any diffusion in there?
Definitely worth the effort. I had a couple in here for a while, and it did some good, but unitl I just accepted that you need to plaster the traps everywhere to really imapct the sound I just went for it, and what a difference it made.
I didnt use diffusion, no. I considered making a poor mans diffusion (well, actuall more expensive by far, but already there) from my CD racks on the back wall, or trying to combine the diffusion and bass trap by putting my bookshelf (which is about 6 feet high, a bit less than 3 wide and very densly packed with lots of books of different densities and sizes).
I may still do the latter, actually. I dont know if it would help more than the traps though.
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I always liked mixing DI'd and mic'd bass amps for the best results, I found that ONLY DI'ing the bass gave for a poor bass tone, imo.
I also like 12" speakers for bass, just 'sits' really nice in the mix.
I agree, that is overall the best way.
No bass amp, though.
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I always liked mixing DI'd and mic'd bass amps for the best results, I found that ONLY DI'ing the bass gave for a poor bass tone, imo.
I also like 12" speakers for bass, just 'sits' really nice in the mix.
I agree, that is overall the best way.
No bass amp, though.
aww man!!! - you need some bass amp action going on, will seriously improve the low end growl. get a nice Ampeg B15.
on the subject of dirty bass, check this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvstS6mGmYs
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Dude, thats awesome. I can hear that blending with some brutal guitars really well.
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nice studio,
I've also treated mine with lots of bass trapping, I used wickes heavy density insulation butthey are just plonked in the corners from floor to ceiling for the time being until I make some frames for them and get the fabric, I plan to eventually have around 10 broadband bass traps, but it should be worth the effort, I know what you mean about bass trapping making the high frequencies cleaner, they become less harsh
have you used any diffusion in there?
Definitely worth the effort. I had a couple in here for a while, and it did some good, but unitl I just accepted that you need to plaster the traps everywhere to really imapct the sound I just went for it, and what a difference it made.
I didnt use diffusion, no. I considered making a poor mans diffusion (well, actuall more expensive by far, but already there) from my CD racks on the back wall, or trying to combine the diffusion and bass trap by putting my bookshelf (which is about 6 feet high, a bit less than 3 wide and very densly packed with lots of books of different densities and sizes).
I may still do the latter, actually. I dont know if it would help more than the traps though.
this might answer your question: bookshelves don't do much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmBhkR4JQ
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nice studio,
I've also treated mine with lots of bass trapping, I used wickes heavy density insulation butthey are just plonked in the corners from floor to ceiling for the time being until I make some frames for them and get the fabric, I plan to eventually have around 10 broadband bass traps, but it should be worth the effort, I know what you mean about bass trapping making the high frequencies cleaner, they become less harsh
have you used any diffusion in there?
Definitely worth the effort. I had a couple in here for a while, and it did some good, but unitl I just accepted that you need to plaster the traps everywhere to really imapct the sound I just went for it, and what a difference it made.
I didnt use diffusion, no. I considered making a poor mans diffusion (well, actuall more expensive by far, but already there) from my CD racks on the back wall, or trying to combine the diffusion and bass trap by putting my bookshelf (which is about 6 feet high, a bit less than 3 wide and very densly packed with lots of books of different densities and sizes).
I may still do the latter, actually. I dont know if it would help more than the traps though.
this might answer your question: bookshelves don't do much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmBhkR4JQ
Ahh, Ethan Winer
The mans eyebrows are have their own independent brains, you know.
I do like his valiant attempts to bring some proper practical and empirical analysis to acoustics. I think a large amount of the acoustic gear/treatment out there is very much for audio engineers more than audio, and he fights that fight quite well
Anyway, I cant help but notice that his bookshelf is very homogeneous. All the books about the same size. Mine isnt, they're quite heavily staggered, or I wouldnt suspect it would do anything at all. Easily improved if I were to rearange them, too.
But he does show something else I suspected would happen; lots of high end gets absorbed, since it is just paper after all.
CD rack as a second choice - I always have far more CD rack space than I need for my CDs (for obvious reasons), so there are a lot of spaces, but it would be a monotone diffuser. I suppose with a few spare racks, a couple of planks of wood of whatever thickness a CD rack space is, a jigsaw and a few hours you could make lots of regions of different depth and make a poor mans QRD diffuser.
Love the shot of Massenbergs control room there - what you dont quite get from that shot is that those hyper-diffuser-trap-combo things are 4 feet deep, not one of the bits of wood they're made from the same length as another. Gotta love the proper OCD dedication to getting awesome sound (but what do you expect from the man that invented the parametric EQ?).
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Great looking studio Mark.
All my gear is in my bedroom so it has less space than yours. I have to sit on the edge of my bed too, which can be pain in the back for long periods. Mind you I love it! I had a lot of fun knocking up a simple track at the weekend using the guitar synth and software instruments.
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mmmmmm....
More gear than I could eat!
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Mmmm, quite some nice stuff laying around there.
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Cheers chaps.
Johnny, post the track up!
And go over to jamsite!
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aww man!!! - you need some bass amp action going on, will seriously improve the low end growl. get a nice Ampeg B15.
on the subject of dirty bass, check this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvstS6mGmYs
I love that kind of bass tone :D Still need to get a bass, just seem to keep having other things I "need" to buy :oops:
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I will when my broadband gets connected next weekend. It's only a very simple musical idea but as I've spent a longtime setting up the settings on my midi I played a few different sampled instruments from NI Kontact. I need to do some concentrating more on a composition now rather than learning curve experiments!