Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Denim n Leather on November 25, 2010, 09:16:33 PM
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I have reassembled my pedal board into its Mk4 configuration, this time making the most of the limited real estate available.
Picture:
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq33/Phantom_Isle/DSC00099.jpg)
Here's a clip I made running the board through its paces: http://soundcloud.com/bena/pedal-board-test-25-nov-10
(clip: dry w/Philosopher's Tone ... Script 90 ... Script 90/Space Echo ... BB Preamp ... BB/SHO ... SHO ... SHO/Thundertomate ... Fuzz War ... Ultimate Octave)
I'm very happy with the sound and versatility of the pedal board. The whole thing is wired with George L's and powered by a 1Spot, except for the BOSS and the Philosopher's Tone.
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That sounds great. But isn't that TU2's buffer sucking the life out of the tone?
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That sounds great.
Thanks!
But isn't that TU2's buffer sucking the life out of the tone?
It's odd that you would suggest that the TU2 is sucking the life out of my tone just after saying it sounds great!!
The answer is No. I am often staggered at how little people know about stacking pedals. At last year's NY Amp Show there was a great round table with various "boutique" pedal-builders on the subject of true bypass vs buffered outputs, pedal order, and general pedal/pedal board design. They all admitted that whilst true bypass can have some benefit as long as you don't stack too many TB pedals one after another, it's mostly marketing hype.
If you stack several true bypass pedals together, you have to have a buffer at the front or the back of the chain or you will have an over-bright mess.
I've found that as long as you give the TU2 a good, steady current, it doesn't have any tone suck. I suspect this 'rumour' has been caused by competitors trying to sell their own product. Having a buffered output on the tuner solves 2 problems at once for me.
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I've a TU-2 in the chain as well. You have to be weary of some fuzz pedals not liking it but overall I prefer the sound out of the amp when the buffer is in there.
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I've a TU-2 in the chain as well. You have to be weary of some fuzz pedals not liking it but overall I prefer the sound out of the amp when the buffer is in there.
That is absolutely correct. Some fuzz pedals make nice with a buffer in front of em, some don't. My Fuzz War and Fulltone are fine; my Tommy Bolin fuzz falls to pieces!
An interesting article on the subject can be found here (http://www.muzique.com/news/buffers-before-fuzz/).
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Think these are my favourite tones I've heard of yours so far Ben, really like the BB Preamp/SHO combo.
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Think these are my favourite tones I've heard of yours so far Ben, really like the BB Preamp/SHO combo.
Thanks!
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Cool tones Ben. Sounded nice and warm if that makes sense.
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would you really have an over bright mess?
I mean, I understand why you would want a buffer if you had to use long cable lengths with or without a bunch of true bypass pedals... but, I often use only one pedal (A true bypass tuner) and I wouldn't say my tone was an overly bright mess. surely its not a necessity for playing club shows with a small board and your only 3 feet from your amp?
obviously the total distance of guitar to amp input including all the pedals and cable between pedals is what needs to be taken into account.
there is a lot of true bypass on the pete cornish site i think. its a good read.
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would you really have an over bright mess?
Yes, you would.
I mean, I understand why you would want a buffer if you had to use long cable lengths with or without a bunch of true bypass pedals... but, I often use only one pedal (A true bypass tuner) and I wouldn't say my tone was an overly bright mess. surely its not a necessity for playing club shows with a small board and your only 3 feet from your amp?
I said:
If you stack several true bypass pedals together, you have to have a buffer at the front or the back of the chain or you will have an over-bright mess.
If you're only using one pedal, you're only using one pedal. I've done a lot of experimenting using buffers with a single overdrive. The results can be great, if that is what you're looking for.
There is no way to get around the high freq build up from using several true bypass effects chained together.
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i didnt realise you got high F build up when using multiple buffered effects.
I understand the concept of loosing high end when using long cables + multiple effects with no buffers. same effect people aim for when running with a 20 foot cable up front to attenuate highs or something.
That's were I was getting confused. I thought you meant if you have NO buffered pedals you get increased highs.
I do have a true bypass loop switch I built, possibly to use, but mainly to test out how much a pedal can effect tone.
using that with guitar in & out to amp, and the switched loop containing (in order) ST-100 Tuner (true bypass), Wah (true bypass), chorus (true bypass), Delay (switchable True bypass off) even with only about 10feet in cable total, bypass that chain of 4 pedals returns clarity to the output of the amp. even with one pedal in that loop (a cheap buffered chorus) it can make a big difference.
I usually run with 4 pedals max, usually 3. tuner, wah, and delay. I don't like using many. So pedals boards isn't really something I care about that much.
EDIT:
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html
here is that link. I thought the opposite of what you meant by "If you stack several true bypass pedals together, you have to have a buffer at the front or the back of the chain..." would be a stack of stack of true bypass pedals with no buffers at all... which is a situation addressed at the start of the first paragraph on that page.
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I don't really understand how multiple true bypass pedals can increase the brightness? Surely if anything it would dull the tone a bit as there's more for the signal to pass through?
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that BB preamp sounds good, it's a nice overdrive, it seems quite sweet and vintage sounding compared to the others, what's it like at low gain settings, can it do subtle and bluesy as well as rock?
good clip by the way
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I don't really understand how multiple true bypass pedals can increase the brightness?
Neither do I; however, I also don't understand how gravity works but I can experience the effects of that, too!
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that BB preamp sounds good, it's a nice overdrive, it seems quite sweet and vintage sounding compared to the others, what's it like at low gain settings, can it do subtle and bluesy as well as rock?
good clip by the way
Thank you!
The BB is quite sweet and vintage sounding ... for an OD. The one thing I forgot to put into that clip is the Thundertomate alone ... that has a brilliant vintage break up!
To answer your question, the BB is an extremely versatile pedal. It's actually 3 pedals in one (a clean boost, an EQ, and an OD) and does each thing really well. At very low gain settings, it adds a sweet, natural-sounding breakup.
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I can't explain gravity but surely stacking up cable length plus true bypass pedals does not equal an increase in brightness?
as the pete cornish bit i posted up explains...
using say a 10 ft cable, into 10 true bypass pedals each connected by 1 ft of cable, followed by a 30 ft cable to the amp, means you have have (when all pedals are off) in total 50 ft of cable to drive using your guitar alone. cable capacitance is going to add up over 50ft, and that will definitely attenuate high end.
according to pete... this causes a loss of gain & treble which leads to the need to manually increase the gain and treble setting on the amp to compensate. which makes sense... because increasing cable length between the guitar and amp leads to a mellowing of the tone, a reduction in high frequency proportional to the length of the between guitar and amp. When you turn a pedal on, you add a buffer, which means your guitar is now driving the signal to that pedal, and that first pedal is buffering the signal to the amp... which in effect boosts the level and treble into the amp... leading to you to potentially hear more treble in the end, because you may have increased treble at the amp to compensate for the loss when not running any pedals (If all your pedals are true bypass pedals and switched off).
I'm using "you" figuratively.
The Pete Cornish thing makes sense. I believe its the cables characteristic impedance and capacitance over a given distance that works to roll off hi end. not increase it.
EDIT: also, I know you wouldn't join a pedal with 1ft of cable... it was just to make a point.
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I don't know if there is a breakdown in communication here or something, but true bypass pedals of any number will not make your tone brighter. There is no argument in that statement, thats the way it is.
As Dmoney has pointed out, there are small amounts of capacitance in your leads which will cause a little rolloff in the top end if you have something silly like 50 foot of the stuff, but still its nothing you can't solve with a twist of the treble knob on your amp.
If anyone is getting a brighter sound by connecting true bypass pedals together, I'd check your leads.
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that BB preamp sounds good, it's a nice overdrive, it seems quite sweet and vintage sounding compared to the others, what's it like at low gain settings, can it do subtle and bluesy as well as rock?
good clip by the way
Thank you!
The BB is quite sweet and vintage sounding ... for an OD. The one thing I forgot to put into that clip is the Thundertomate alone ... that has a brilliant vintage break up!
To answer your question, the BB is an extremely versatile pedal. It's actually 3 pedals in one (a clean boost, an EQ, and an OD) and does each thing really well. At very low gain settings, it adds a sweet, natural-sounding breakup.
thanks that answers my question, I'm after either the BB or the AC as an overdirve pedal, both seem very nice!
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That sounds great.
Thanks!
But isn't that TU2's buffer sucking the life out of the tone?
It's odd that you would suggest that the TU2 is sucking the life out of my tone just after saying it sounds great!!
The answer is No. I am often staggered at how little people know about stacking pedals. At last year's NY Amp Show there was a great round table with various "boutique" pedal-builders on the subject of true bypass vs buffered outputs, pedal order, and general pedal/pedal board design. They all admitted that whilst true bypass can have some benefit as long as you don't stack too many TB pedals one after another, it's mostly marketing hype.
If you stack several true bypass pedals together, you have to have a buffer at the front or the back of the chain or you will have an over-bright mess.
I've found that as long as you give the TU2 a good, steady current, it doesn't have any tone suck. I suspect this 'rumour' has been caused by competitors trying to sell their own product. Having a buffered output on the tuner solves 2 problems at once for me.
Yeah controversial isn't it? :D
What I mean is that a recorded sound can be great, but if you plug the guitar out of your pedal board and direct into the amp, it could still be you feel you're missing something with the pedals when you compare the two, playing them in the room. I have a radial PB-1 which is a high quality buffer/booster, and still, although it sounds totally transparent and you can adjust the buffer to taste with "drag" function - when plugging direct, there is more life and interaction between guitar and amp. Doesn't mean I couldn't do great recordings with the buffer in the chain. Plus the buffer is a pragmatic must, as I am using cable runs and pedals that need to be buffered.