Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: rsf1977 on December 19, 2010, 05:18:29 PM
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So I bought an Ibanez RGD321 http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-RGD321 it's the hard tail extended scale 26.5" basswood body they just released. I thought the stock pickups were ok, so I figured I could get something better in there. So I talked with Bare Knuckles, who has been aces with helping me try to find the right pup, and based on my description and experience with the Warpig they recommended me the Holy Divers. Don't get me wrong I think the HDs are great pickups, I just don't think they are quite right for me. I'll list what I like and don't like about each and maybe someone can give me advice on pointing to another model that would better suit me and my gear.
I play modern metal with a mix of post-metal Isis type tones and more aggressive metalcore articulated riff based stuff. We also do some clean passages as well I mostly use the center pickup position for this using both the bridge and neck pups. You can checkout some tunes at http://www.myspace.com/empier to get an idea of what I'm doing these were done with an RG321 with a Warpig which was just too dark overall.
Tuning: Drop-A (A-E-A-D-F#-B)
Strings .072 -.014
Ibanez VK Down-Tunz Stock pickups:
LIKES
1. Really massive tight palm mutes
2. Really biting/sharp attack
3. Lots of clarity
DISLIKES
1. Kind of thin for rhythm work
2. Top end is a little harsh
3. Seems a tad bit too scooped
Bare Knuckles Holy Diver Matched Set
LIKES
1. Thick tone
2. Lots of good mids carves it's space in the mix
3. Pretty punchy
4. Single notes sound nice and fat
5. Highs are nice and smooth
DISLIKES
1. The attack isn't aggressive enough, not enough bite.
2. Feedback happens to easily, had trouble using high gain
3. Tone seems really compressed/spongey
4. Cleans especially the neck seem really thin, I need more body/mass and woodiness
5. Possibly a little more mid freq focused then i need
I think the Holy Divers are a lot closer to what I need then Warpig, but it's just seems like it isn't aggressive enough. I don't play dejent, but a little more of that kind of bite on the attack would be great while still having some thick massive tone.
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The fact that you like the fat tone suggests Alnico V to me and if the Holy Diver and Warpig aren't quite right, I'd say the Nailbomb is the natural option for you. It's known as a very versatile pickup and, to me, always seems to have a tighter bottom end than the Holy Diver that I think you'd like. I get the impression it lends itself to Metal better than any of the other Alnico V pickups as well so overall I'd say it would be a good match for what you're after. It's not as middy as the Holy Diver but should still have enough to cut through the mix.
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yea i was noticing at my band practice that it was really mid-focused it was cutting through like crazy but not in a way that was pulling the sound together. It felt like the guitar owned the mids but wasn't gelling with the drums and bass to create the massive unified sound that owns a room. I don't play leads really I just want a great unified mix that is huge. I think I'll do some research on the nail bomb.
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Hey i also have the RGD but mine is the 320wh
I have put an aftermath in there and it is super tight, great for rhythm and leads and it splits really well for cleans.
I have a few clips in the players section and can make some more for you in a particular style if you wish when my replacement saddle block arrives
it is also super punchy with lots of attack and has a great amount of mids and will cut through anything.
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Hey i also have the RGD but mine is the 320wh
I have put an aftermath in there and it is super tight, great for rhythm and leads and it splits really well for cleans.
I have a few clips in the players section and can make some more for you in a particular style if you wish when my replacement saddle block arrives
Hey that would be fantastic I'd love to hear some clips. I have to admit I'm pretty intimidated bythe Aftermath after reading the reviews lol. I'm not the best guitar player in the land and I fear my shortcomings will be put front and center with that baby. At least from what I've read, what's your opinion on that?
Also did your guitar come with the same pups as mine? What did you think of the stock pups? I thought they were ok but seemed a little thin overall
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Yeah it came with the same pickups.Its the same guitar essentially other than the trem & finish.
The stock pickups were ok and as you said they had great attack and were great for palm muted riffs.
The bass on them was a bit OTT though and the highs was a bit fizzy.
I am not the cleanest player in the world and i do just fine with the AM if anything it has improved my playing and technique.
The gain on it isnt as huge as you would think from the official clips it is perfectly balanced and articulate and possibly the tightest pickup ive ever played and that includes most of the emg & duncan range.
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c-bomb?
the alnico nailbomb is very tight and aggressive (a lot more than the holy diver), but a bit scooped in the upper mids
it might work for you, though
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How do the aftermaths compare to the c-bombs? Also I read somewhere that there are different pole piece options? What's that about lol? So many options lol.
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I have no experience with the Cbomb but if its anything like the NB i know ill hate it :P.
The Aftermath has double screw pole pieces. for more adjustability (i have no idea what else this would be for maybe better bass response?)
I however have a solid black cover on my aftermath with no visible pole pieces as i wanted a really clean look as my RGD is white
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I have no experience with the Cbomb but if its anything like the NB i know ill hate it :P.
The Aftermath has double screw pole pieces. for more adjustability (i have no idea what else this would be for maybe better bass response?)
I however have a solid black cover on my aftermath with no visible pole pieces as i wanted a really clean look as my RGD is white
What didn't you like about the A-Bomb?
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I have no experience with the Cbomb but if its anything like the NB i know ill hate it :P.
The Aftermath has double screw pole pieces. for more adjustability (i have no idea what else this would be for maybe better bass response?)
I however have a solid black cover on my aftermath with no visible pole pieces as i wanted a really clean look as my RGD is white
What didn't you like about the A-Bomb?
it just really didn't work for me at all it was nowhere near tight enough and felt a little tame & spongey.
But i guess thats because i'm a ceramic user through and through.
i was actually surprised how tight the VK downz were.
However i have heard a lot of great tones from the NB it just doesn't work for me at all.
I found it to be very choosy with what guitar you put it in and just never really found the right match.
I've had 3 NB's now in about 6-7 different guitars and not really enjoyed it in any
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Yea the down-Tunz are almost there for me they just lack a bit of thickness in the middle and a little too spikey on the high end
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i would definitely recommend the AM then.
Also i tried the MM in the same guitar and it also worked really well.
A touch tighter than the VK but more raunchy tonewise and much thicker
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How is the aftermath compared th the down-Tunz and what made you ditch the miracle mans
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I also have the RGD320. I use a Ceramic Warpig in it. For me its the perfect combination for ultra low chugging. I use it in a extreme metal band which fuses Death, black and grind together. We tune to G# standard.
This guitar has become Satans vibrator, and shes a pleaser. I have all that i need in a grinding package.
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Haha I have a A-warpig in my normal scale rg but it's a bit too loose and dark. I wonder how different the ceramic version is?
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i've had 2 a5 warpigs. one 7 string version and one normal.
The a5 versions lack all pickup attack. While the C-pig has a lot of picking attack. Think of the Miracle man. if the miracle man is superman. then the Cpig is lobo. A space biker with a bad attitude, out to kick ass and strength enough to kick clark kents butt even on a sunday morning
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Just curious, do most modern metal guys use ceramics? Maybe that's why so far the ones I've tried have been lacking in bite and attack?
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Ceramics are the magnet of choice it seems for modern Metal as it's highly articulate and gives a fast tracking bass response, though some people kind find the tone a bit sterile in comparison to Alnico V.
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Based on what I read here all the time, everything that you've said so far seems to point you towards the AfterMath, or maybe the PainKiller. I would definitely go ceramic for the music you play.
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I hear what you're saying but I'm not so sure. What he really liked about the Holy Diver was the 'fat', 'thick' and 'smooth' tone and all of that is squarely Alnico V rather than ceramic. I'm suggesting an Alnico V Nailbomb because it's the tightest and most 'Metal' of all the Alnico V pickups but I accept that a ceramic pickup that has the thickest, fattest and smoothest response would also be a possibility. I'm not sure which ceramic pickup that would be but I wouldn't have thought it was an Aftermath.
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First I just want to thank all of you for offering your thoughts on this, I find everyone on this forum really pleasant and helpful. Just to clarify, i do like a tone with some mass, but just to be more clear I think things like the Warpig is too much for me. I really want something that isn't thin and super scooped. I'm not into tech-metal tones really. I'm in a single guitarist metal band so i need to cover a bunch of ground frequency-wise. I really need some sharp attack and clarity as I do quite a bit of trem picking, and i also do a lot of big sustained chords and palm mutes that's kind of sludgy and massive. I know that's kind of what everyone wants, but hey I want it too haha :D
Also, the holy diver isn't that far away from being right it's just far enough away that i know i can find something that suits me better. Also man that pickup feeds back instantly, i couldn't really control it even while holding the strings dead silent. I really had to dial my gain way back, more then i wanted to. Anyone else have that issue?
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Also man that pickup feeds back instantly, i couldn't really control it. Anyone else have that issue?
Maybe lower the pick-up a little bit?
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Also man that pickup feeds back instantly, i couldn't really control it. Anyone else have that issue?
Maybe lower the pick-up a little bit?
I tried that to the point where i could still like the tone, but still didn't stop it. I don't have the problem at bedroom levels but at practice it was really a pain. I actually had to dial the gain back so much i couldn't cozx any natural feedback out any more, really frustrating
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How is the aftermath compared th the down-Tunz and what made you ditch the miracle mans
the aftermath is everything that the VK's are + more well actually the bass and gain is a bit mroe relaxed.
And i didn't ditch the miracle man that is back in my RGA i just wanted to try it in the RGD to see how it compares
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actually just reading one of your last posts i believe the miracle man would be a bit more suitable for you its a far bit thicker than the AM (not that the AM isnt thick) but the MM is just HUGE
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actually just reading one of your last posts i believe the miracle man would be a bit more suitable for you its a far bit thicker than the AM (not that the AM isnt thick) but the MM is just HUGE
ok, are you reffering to a ceramic miracle man? I'll try to read up on that pup, thanks
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How do the aftermaths compare to the c-bombs? Also I read somewhere that there are different pole piece options? What's that about lol? So many options lol.
For the C-Bomb/Aftermath comparision I always looked at this, but I'm still not convinced. Maby you will be. C-Bomb left and Aftermath right.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3702469/Memento%20Mori.mp3
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actually just reading one of your last posts i believe the miracle man would be a bit more suitable for you its a far bit thicker than the AM (not that the AM isnt thick) but the MM is just HUGE
ok, are you reffering to a ceramic miracle man? I'll try to read up on that pup, thanks
as far as i know the miracle man is only available as ceramic bridge
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ok i just wanted be sure since quite a few come in both
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Ok got a reply back from Tim at BK "To retain the mids but gain extra aggression and high end bite the Aftermath would be the solution." I guess I'm leaning to the Aftermath
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How do the aftermaths compare to the c-bombs? Also I read somewhere that there are different pole piece options? What's that about lol? So many options lol.
For the C-Bomb/Aftermath comparision I always looked at this, but I'm still not convinced. Maby you will be. C-Bomb left and Aftermath right.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3702469/Memento%20Mori.mp3
Edit: Actually the aftermath seems a bit dark overall after listening to other clips i found, i like the top end of the C-Bomb it has a lot of bite that i feel i could control and lessen if i needed to. I would love to hear doing the chugga chugga thing to see what that's like.
I think the c-bomb has a a cool hairiness to the tone which i like, it's not as polite. Man these 2 pups really compliment each other nicely lol. They kind of each have what the other doesn't it's pretty cool. Dang man it's just like buy and try i guess.
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actually just reading one of your last posts i believe the miracle man would be a bit more suitable for you its a far bit thicker than the AM (not that the AM isnt thick) but the MM is just HUGE
So while the Nailbomb is the most aggressive and 'ceramic-like- of the Alnico V pups, do you mean that the Miracle Man is the most organic of the ceramics?
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actually just reading one of your last posts i believe the miracle man would be a bit more suitable for you its a far bit thicker than the AM (not that the AM isnt thick) but the MM is just HUGE
So while the Nailbomb is the most aggressive and 'ceramic-like- of the Alnico V pups, do you mean that the Miracle Man is the most organic of the ceramics?
i wouldnt say organic but it sounds a lot more natural to me than the others. Less precision. Actually the CS is a bit more natural but i didn't like it too much as the overall voicing was a bit too polite for me
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Yea I don't want a pickup that is really restricting, i like an open wide sound with snarl, bark and hariness to it. When you slide down that low string into a riff you get that roar. And when you lay into a palm mute it hits you in the chest. The HD for me had a good grind and that hair but the palm mutes didn't give you that sharp thud, it was sort of more rounded and compressed. And the top end didn't have that bite that gets the tone to cut through sharply. I'm sorry if my terminology is kind of subjective i don't know how else to describe it. I'll put it this way the VK2 stock pups had the high end bite i like just a little too harsh/spikey and they had the low end thump that was tight and big, maybe a tad too much low end. But it's biggest weakness was the overall density it just came off a bit thin when doing big chording like the pickup had a PEQ rolling off the low end somewhere. The note definition, clarity, and note compression seemed ok.
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I think the aftermath will be better for you as it is tighter and still has that awesome gritty hairiness that you want.
The miracle man has the same voicing but relaxed upper mids and a bigger bass increase and is incredibly tight but not quite.
My new trem block should be here tomorrow so ill record one of my tracks with the MM & AM
so you can compare
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I think the aftermath will be better for you as it is tighter and still has that awesome gritty hairiness that you want.
The miracle man has the same voicing but relaxed upper mids and a bigger bass increase and is incredibly tight but not quite.
My new trem block should be here tomorrow so ill record one of my tracks with the MM & AM
so you can compare
Thanks a lot, that's really going above and beyond. You guys are great
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Since I have the pickups in I did a little playing with the pickup height, and man what a difference lowering them did. Cleaned those pickups right up. I was surprised i had to lower them as much as i did, but they sound much more direct, brighter and cleaner now. They still aren't doing it for me, but it's better. I still have that feedback whistle at 1700khz that's unacceptable in both pups. Oh well. There maybe should be some height recommendations that go with them to warn they don't like to be close lol.
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Since I have the pickups in I did a little playing with the pickup height, and man what a difference lowering them did. Cleaned those pickups right up. I was surprised i had to lower them as much as i did, but they sound much more direct, brighter and cleaner now. They still aren't doing it for me, but it's better. I still have that feedback whistle at 1700khz that's unacceptable in both pups. Oh well. There maybe should be some height recommendations that go with them to warn they don't like to be close lol.
I know EXACTLY what your talking about. I lowered my holy diver and its so much better! I loved the tone before, but now its perfect!
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Ok I finally got my bridge Aftermath pickup in my guitar. And I have to say i like, possibly love it already. I only tested it at some loud bedroom levels, but it sounds pretty damn good. It's like I took the stock pickups I had and scrubbed it clean in the sink and removed the mucky muddiness and the over-hyped bass. This pickup is tight, punchy and it sounds mean. The Holy Divers that I tried on the other hand I felt were overly compressed and had a mid range hump I wasn't into. The Aftermath sounds more balanced tonally and clear, but it's got balls. Whoever described this as clinical made clinical my new favorite word hahah. I would describe it as defined and accurate, but not clinical because there's nothing sterile about it. This pickup sounds organic and cutting. I can't wait to get this up to band levels and see where it goes.
One note for other guys that might be having issues with the Aftermath tone. Pickup height really changes the character of this PUP, and I mean dramatically. If you back it to far down it gets really thin and shrill. If you put it up too high it becomes really fat, compressed, murky and mushy. But man when you get it just right in between it's amazing. Do some experimenting. I've found most BK pups react to height more then others I've tried.
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Ok, had the first band practice with the aftermath. I love this pickup. It's so defined and aggressive. Everythin has bite and punch. This is probably the punchiest pickup I've ever played. And palm mutes have a slam to them. I've found my dream pickup. This is what I've been looking for.
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Glad its working out for you.
I on the ther hand have now got sick of mine and i'm figuring out what to replace it with.
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Glad its working out for you.
I on the ther hand have now got sick of mine and i'm figuring out what to replace it with.
What's bothering you about them?
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They arent miracle men :P
I find the miracle man to be a lot tighter and aggresive.
i also far prefer the miracle mans high end
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very interesting. I was under the impression the aftermath was king of tightness. Honestly, I think if things got tighter i'd be in trouble lol.
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Well the aftermath may technical be tighter.
but after a few tweaks to my rig (mainly amp, valves, speakers) the miracle man definitely shines more in the tightness and tonality registers with my setup