Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Foxter on December 24, 2010, 09:07:09 PM
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Hello,
I'm new to the forum and I'm wondering if someone could help me choose a HSS set.
I'm playing in a band that sounds similar to arctic monkeys, babyshambles, bloc party, blur, red hot chili peppers, hives, libertines, foo fighters, travis, weezer, the strokes...
I know some of these bands aren't that similar, so I need a versitale HSS for "that kind" of music...
I have framus Diablo pro (US swamp ash body, bolt-in ovangkol neck with a rosewood fingerboard)
Here's more info on the guitar http://www.framus.de/modules/produkte/produkt.php?submenuID=21340&katID=11018&linkID=18693
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The Mule humbucker & 2 Mother's Milk HSS set.
WR
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I'm not sure if the mule has enough output for my taste :(
How well does it handle distortion?
What about the vintage hot humbucker models? can anybody briefly compare them?
I'm interested in the mother's milk single colis, but could somebody compare them with the slow hands and the irish tour. I read somewhere that the irish tour middle pickup is kind of thin, is that true?
I'm sorry that I'm asking so much questions, but it's kind of hard to explain the sound that I'm looking for, I mean it's hard to describe a sound in general. And these pickups aren't cheap. (but worth it :D)
I'll try to give you some more details: So as I said I play in a indie/brit rock kind of band, but I think I need a bit more gain than the bands I mentioned, becouse sometimes we have riffs that sound like muse or rage against the machine. I'm not a really a fan of the vintage low output stuff, but I'm also not a fan of metal high gain pickups. The problem is that sometimes I need a punchy percussive sound (ex. Franz Ferdinand,arctic monkeys) and sometimes a mellow clean sound. So the thing I need the most is versatility. I think that the most of the bare knuckle pickup line up is really versitale. But that is the thing that makes it more difficult to choose :(
PS sorry about my English :(
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The Mule is an excellent all-rounder - don't be put off by its output, it can handle any everything up to and including the most extreme metal styles. The output level means the dynamic range is superb, and the pickup has a very open and clear voicing.
However, if you want something with a fatter and more focussed sound, the Black Dog is based on the same "recipe", but is overwound to give a very meaty sound that is still dynamic and punchy.
Either would be excellent for the styles you've mentioned.
The Mother's Milks are much cleaner sounding than either the Slow Hands or Irish Tours. They have that woody 60s-style strat sound that guys like Frusciante are well known for, with plenty of "cluck". They would match up very nicely with the Mule, and the Black Dog wouldn't overpower them either.
The Slow Hands have considerably more midrange, giving a fat and weighty tone though still retains the traditional stratty top end.
The Irish Tours are closer to the Mother's Milks in voicing, but have more low end push and a naturally gritty sound as though the guitar has huge strings on and is being attacked a la SRV or Rory Gallagher. I wouldn't describe them as thin sounding, though they might not be the first choice for a particularly bright strat.
So, overall I'd recommend the Mule or Black Dog with Mother's Milks. However, if output is a worry (and I truly don't believe it would be, but you may feel uncomfortable risking it), a good choice would be a Nailbomb bridge with the Irish Tours. The Nailbomb may be from the contemporary range, but it's remarkably open and dynamic for a pickup of that output, and has an rich, old school voicing that would suit the styles you've mentioned.
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I would say Mule + MM's
or: Crawler + IT's. I have this set in my swampash customstrat and it kicks ass. Crawler splits beautiful with the IT.
Maybe others have different experiences, but I find the IT's far from thin / too bright in an swampashbody. Just right for my guitar/amp (Orange Rockerverb 50 head)
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It's still hard to decide :cry:
I like the black dog better than the mule but the emerald doesn't sound too bad either. What do you think about the emerald? The crawler sounds cool too. Which confuses me even more :(
(I won't go with the nailbomb because I've got another band that's more agressive and I'm planning to put a nailbomb - irish tour - nailbomb into my other guitar (framus pantera studio pro)) :twisted:
I'm not to sure about the single colis, they all seem great, it's hard to decide. At least I narrowed them down to mother's milk, irish tour and slow hand.
Mother's milk have a great clean tone but how are they with crunch and distortion tones? love the cluck :)
I like the distorted tone of the irish tour, but how is it with cleans, is it too gritty? I mean I like that kind of punchy trebbly sound, but is it too much since I already have a bright sounding guitar?
The slow hands seem good but maybe they lack a bit of the percussive nature of a strat style pickup? Or am I wrong?
I know that Nolly allready said that the irish tour are probably too bright, and that the slow hands still have the strappy top end but I would like to hear what other people think. I'm not judging his knowledge about the pickups but the possibility of difference in musical taste between him and me, and him and other people
It would be a great help if people with similar playing styles could explain which pickup they choose and why
PS thank you Nolly, WhiteRam and Telerocker you've allready been very helpful :)
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No worries dude :)
The Emerald is brighter than the other pickups you are looking at by a fair margin. I'm not sure it'd be a very good choice for your guitar. Crawlers could work - they're certainly fat and powerful, with a classic voicing.
By the way, I wasn't saying the Irish Tours would be too bright for you - in many ways I think they'd be great for what you've described.
EDIT: I should add that the new BKP website (going live on the 3rd January at midnight) has a large selection of clips that will greatly help any decision-making process. If you're not in a rush to buy, it might be worth waiting and seeing what you like the sound of.
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Your thread title reads "indie/brit rock/rock" and if I see that in a national bands classified for auditions, I'm showing up with a Mule & MM's in my HSS for the audition.
Since you've futher elaborated, I'm now starting to wonder about your amp and gain pedals (if any), if you're getting your gain for the hot riffs with channel switching or gain pedals, then my original recommendation stands. If you're going to rely on the pickups for hot gain, then the Nailbomb (& Irish Tours) as Nolly suggested is in good order.
You're not using the word 'metal' so I fear of suggesting any super hot contemporarys. I'm an HSS player with alder body & maple neck/fretboard, as far as the vintage hot humbuckers I can tell you IMO. . . to stay away from the Emerald, however the Black Dog is awesome and has a fat ass with lots of swagger if you like.
The BKP's are not like anything else in the world, once you get your first set installed you will realize they are not expensive, I pay a premium over here in the States but these PU's give more than my money's worth. We can get you in the ball-park of what you want, but put some hours in studying both sound clips and forum threads too.
Maybe you could post three links, one each representing the voicing you desire from each pickup position, and also your amp and gain pedals used (if any) information. Then guys like Nolly and others here could probably suggest a great first set of BKP. :D
WR
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I'm not in a rush to buy, and if some more clips come out on the new web site that would be really helpfull :)
I kind of like the black dog the most, but I'm still opened for suggestions.
The output thing on the mule bothers me a bit, the black dog has a bit more bite which I like, and it sounds more alive than the crawler, the crawler sounds a bit compressed (then again that could be the sample quality)
The thing with the single coils is that I like the mother's milk and the irish tour. But the problem is that I think that in some situations I would preffer the MM's and in some the IT's. The problem is that I like the grittiness of the IT's with overdrive but I hope that they're not to gritty on the cleans and I like the clean on the MM's but hope they're a little bit gritty with overdrive. So some new samples would really come in handy :(
I have a hughes and kettner statesman dual 6l6 (50 watt valve amp) - http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=117
I don't use pedals in this band, I use channel switching, allthough I have a keeley rat that I've been thinking about using.
I'll try to find some links
PS I believe you that the pickups are great. I mean the pickups in my guitar are really good, they are all seymour duncans (SHR-1 (neck), SSL-1 (middle), STB-4 (bridge)), but I still believe that the BKP's can do a lot better :D
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If you like the Black Dog, then go for it. Won't disappoint you. The MM's do well with drive too and the IT's can produce pristine cleans. It's a matter of taste, both are in the same vintage-ballpark. The MM's real early sixties (a friend of mine has them in an alderstrat, with the Crawler in the bridge) and a tad mellower than the IT's. I play in a coverband. We do everything from old school disco, funk, latin, pop, rock, classic rock to Robbie Williams, Alesha Dixon, Beyoncé etc. and the IT's get me everywhere.
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What he said ^ spot on!
Ya, the BD has more power than I thought it would, really surprised me, no worries for you there and it'll work great with your guitar's wood, very versatile PU too. So now all you need to do is decide your single coil choice, one will speak to you as you keep listening and reading/learning, just like the BD did. :)
Good luck, you can't go wrong really, BKP are the nuts!
WR
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I have a Mule and MMs and they work well together, as would the BD, VHII and against other views, Emerald, however I don't think the Crawler would fit in well with the MMs, not bright enough.
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I was in a band up until 3 years ago doing originals in styles similar to what you mentioned, and my Strat with Crawler/Irish Tour/Irish Tour into an Orange AD30 was great for that type of sound.
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So it's probably the black dog in the bridge, but I'll wait for the new samples just to be shure :)
And could someone tell me the pros/cons of a covered/non covered black dog
The single coils still bother me, I really can't decide. :(
PS do you think I could get a quantity discount because I was planing to get:
1x black dog
2x single coils (the ones I can't decide on :) )
1X nailbom calibrated set
1x irish tour middle pickup
and I might order a Aftermath calibrated set for a friend
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I have a Mule and MMs and they work well together, as would the BD, VHII and against other views, Emerald, however I don't think the Crawler would fit in well with the MMs, not bright enough.
My friend just installed the Crawler/MM's in his strat and he's very pleased. Very balanced set. The Crawler splits great with the MM. For my swampash-strat with ebony fretboard Tim at BKP recommended me Crawler with IT's. For me the Crawler is the first humbucker - and I had lots of Duncans and Dimarzio's - that is totally in balance with my amp. Enough high's, but not earpiercing ot annoying. Of course the Crawler is emphasized on the midrange. Therefore it does well in alder and swampash.
I'm not saying now, in this case only the Crawler is the way to go. The Mule or a Black Dog would be an excellent choice too.
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So it's probably the black dog in the bridge, but I'll wait for the new samples just to be shure :)
And could someone tell me the pros/cons of a covered/non covered black dog
The single coils still bother me, I really can't decide. :(
PS do you think I could get a quantity discount because I was planing to get:
1x black dog
2x single coils (the ones I can't decide on :) )
1X nailbom calibrated set
1x irish tour middle pickup
and I might order a Aftermath calibrated set for a friend
For Chili Peppers the MM's.
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the crawler sounds great but it seemed a bit compressed on the sample on youtube.
Is it a bit compressed or is that just the video quality? I would really like to have a dynamic pickup.
And how does a black dog split with the IT's or MM's does anybody have any experience?
Ps what are the differences in sound between the covered and non covered versions of humbuckers?
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I don't find the Crawler very compressed, but is has a softer creamy character then the BD. Say round. Don't worry the BD/Mule will split wonderful with the MM's.
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I think I made up my mind! :D
(I discovered the unofficial clips on the forum, before that I only listened to the official clips and the ones on youtube :oops: )
So I think I will go with the crawler in the bridge and the mother's milk in middle and neck.
After I did a bit of compareing somehow the crawler just sounded better for my taste. I usually don't like signature models because I don't want people to think that I'm copying anyone, but after a bit of thinking I said to myself that that is nonsense because the guy is a professional and he played in a couple of famous bands and probably tried a couple of hundred guitars, so he must have a lot of knowladge of how a pickup should sound like.
(only the official clip on youtube sounded compressed, at least to my ears)
But could somebody please tell me the difference between the covered and non-covered versions??
I like the clean sound and the cluck of the MM's. The IT's are to gritty and the slowhands are to fat, almost like a humbucker.
Thank you guys for your help, it's been hard to choose because I wasn't sure what I wanted exactly, thank god for the clips. I'll still wait for the new clips just to be shure (and I need to raise the remaining money I need :) )
Cheers
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I'm quite sure you can mix & match two single coils and a humbucker for the discounted HSS set price, call or email BKP to get the instructions to do so.
I like the open poled pickups, the covered ones sound great too and I would play them. I've owned both types, I don't really hear a difference as much as I feel a difference, but it's just a personal thing, as you see Steve Stevens uses the covered ones and he's a tone freak like us, so no worries or difference to speak of really.
I've been holding off on an opinion, after owning / playing / adjusting and really getting to know the BD in my HSS, I most surely would have the Slow Hands for my single coils. The BD has a low growl and a thick bottom, its highs are very clear and rich and do not lack treble. However I want the EQ on the amp to respond great for all my pickups without adjustment, so I realized why BKP matches this set up.
Crawler is a great set for you too, MM's or IT's or one of each might do, either way you're gonna love them. :)
WR
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Crawler non-covered. Cover will take off some highs and that could be too much for the Crawler.
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At the risk of confusing things further; if the Mule is a great choice but not powerful enough, you should look at the Abraxas, which is similar to a Mule but somewhat hotter. Don't be put off by the Santana connection, they're a great pickup with plenty versatility. Paired with a couple of Slowhands I think they'd be superb. I'm planning on using that combo in my back-up guitar when I eventually have the spare funds.
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I agree with Doadman the Abraxas could be considered too. It's balanced, what I heard from clips. For Chili Peppers-stuff I would stick to MM's rather then the - compared to MM's - midrangy Slowhands.
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I listened to the abraxis, I kind of like the crawler/mother's milk combination the best, but tnx for the suggestion :D
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It's your choice and I'm sure that's a good combination but I'd keep an open mind until after the new site is launched on 3rd January. There will be loads of new sound clips, done in more controlled conditions so it will be easier to determine exactly what the characteristics of a particular pickup are. The players section is a great resource but there's simply too many variables. I've heard clips of a Holy Diver on there that sound muddy and I've dismissed the pickup and then I've come across others where it seems super tight and I'm really interested in it. The same thing has happened with Nailbomb clips. The new site will also have EQ charts so that will also help you to decide which pickups are best for you.
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I listened to the abraxis, I kind of like the crawler/mother's milk combination the best, but tnx for the suggestion :D
As I said I have Crawler/IT's, but my friend has Crawler/MM's installed in an alder strat. Sounds really great. But, also the tonal character of the guitarwoods, the amp and the combi guitar/amp influence the sound, sometimes dramatically. But hey, you can't go wrong with this HSS-set.