Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Blind on December 30, 2010, 07:53:03 AM
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Hi all, I have very little experience with pickups and my tonal vocabulary may be fairly weak so bear with me please haha
I'm looking to buy a bridge pickup for my ESP LTD H-1001 (maple neck, mahogany body and maple top.) as I've found the EMGs to be pretty underwhelming dirty. I've heard from many different places that BK are the best around, bar none so I figured I'd do a little research. I've been reading a lot of these posts and listening to many of the soundclips posted and I'm having trouble figuring out which I should be looking at.
I play (for the most part) metal in drop A, so I need something that is very articulate in the lower registers (Cold Sweats seem to handle this well?); however, I'd like it to be versatile enough to play other styles as well (jazz, blues, folk) and still sound good. A good starting place for my ideal tone I think would be Misha's from the Periphery debut, but I'd like something less mechanical (I've read the nailbomb is pretty organic) sounding if possible. I tend to like really 'big' sounding tones (C-Pig maybe?), like bands that have such fat, thick chords that they achieve an almost orchestral feel. I also really like the tightness I heard on the aftermath demo.
I'm not going to worry too much about cleans because I prefer to play with my neck pup clean, and the EMG that's currently installed works fine for the time being
Any and all help is greatly appreciated. It seems to me that it's common practice to narrow down your search to a few options here on the forums and then take it to Tim for the final decision? Thanks in advance!
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Quite a range of things you're after there so it's difficult to know where to start. First of all, everything in the Bare Knuckle range is highly articulate, regardless of the magnet used so don't worry about that. As with everything to do with guitars, there may be an element of compromise.
The Cold Sweats do really well in mahogany guitars and will broadly give you a tone like John Sykes (not entirely surprisingly!). However, it's not what I would call a 'fat' sound, which is what you say you like and neither is the Aftermath from what I've heard.
The Miracle Man is something of a 'go-to' Metal pickup and will serve you well. It has a fatter sound than some other ceramic pickups, especially in the lows but I wouldn't have called it very versatile. It's very much a Metal pickup.
The Nailbomb is quite a cutting pickup, especially in ceramic format. If you want a fat and thick sound I'd look more at the Alnico V version and even that is pretty cutting in a way that you normally associate with a ceramic pickup but it is a very versatile pickup and will give you a more organic tone than the C-Bomb.
The fattest and thickest sound, without going OTT with the wind, is the Holy Diver. It's very articulate and probably the most organic sounding contemporary pickup. Not sure how it would do with drop tunings but Antag should be able to help you out there as he seems to be the world authority on this pickup. I know you said you weren't interested in cleans but for what it's worth, the cleans on the Holy Diver are apparently really sweet so again, it's a very versatile pickup.
The Warpig will certainly give you those fat and thick tones you're after and loves drop tunings. Hell, it sounds drop tuned even in standard E! The ceramic version is particularly brutal but loses some of the sweet organic tone and versatility of the Alnico V version. The A-Pig is also a VERY articulate pickup. If you want 'BIG' then the Warpig in either form is the daddy.
Finally, as you've mentioned pickups like the Aftermath and Cold Sweat that aren't particularly 'fat and thick', I'd like to throw in a Rebel Yell as a suggestion from left field. Power is similar to the Cold Sweat and it's Alnico V but it's a beast of a pickup. The Alnico magnet gives it a very organic tone but it's also super tight like a ceramic and works really well in mahogany. Listen to the clip by Steve Stevens and you'll see what I mean.
If I had to pick just one of the above for you I'd guess Warpig but I think Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Holy Diver and Rebel Yell are all worth a look.
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For drop-A I would not go for a pu that is very fat on the low strings. Cold Sweat and Aftermath provide the tight bass and clarity you want for ultralow chugging.
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Hey, thanks for the replies
I know a lot of these terms a pretty open to your own interpretation, so I thought I'd provide an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCVMIDp8jt4
^I consider this C-Bomb tone to be pretty big, and I like how it sort of fills the mix and makes it sound like a lot is happening at once; however, I don't know if Cold Sweats or Aftermaths would achieve the same effect, or if the Nailbomb would be clear enough in the low registers, or if the C-Pig would be similar but provide an even fatter tone, etc.
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I don't think the Cold Sweat and certainly not the Aftermath would sound quite as thick. The Nailbomb should be clear enough on lower tunings as it's a very cutting pickup. The C-Pig should be the same but, as you suggest, will have an even fatter feel to it.
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Alright, thanks..so far it sounds like the C-Pig may be my best option. Do you know if the response time is at all comparable to the Aftermaths or Cold Sweats? I know a lot of the tightness in the AM demo was probably due to compression and gates, but I'd still prefer a fairly tight pickup if possible
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All Bare Knuckle pickups are tight so I wouldn't worry about that. I found this clip of a C-Pig very impressive, though it's done using a brighter sounding guitar than yours:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20921.0
Telerocker has a fair point though about your tuning. Drop A is very low and the Warpig is already a heavily bass pickup. I'm not saying it's not right for you as the Warpig does low tunings very well but I do think it's a factor you need to consider.
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The aftermath is actually a lot thicker than people give it credit for.
And in drop tunings lower than C you should really start reducing the bass output of your pickups to keep the clarity up especially as the gutiar you have isn't extended scale in anyway so you could struggle there if you get a bassy pickup such as the WP or MM.
What amp are you planning on playing? with as that will also be an important factor
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Well, I haven't tried the Aftermath myself so I'm perfectly happy to bow to your superior knowledge Toe-Knee. Certainly what you say makes sense and as it's apparently a super tight pickup, I imagine it would lend itself very well to low tunings.
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Toe-Knee has a point, bec ultralow tunings can get easily muddy with the wrong amp / wrong pickup.
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Another thing to note for anyone interested in the AM/CS/MM route
i find the AM to be a very good blend of the good qualitys of the MM & CS
It is super tight not too high output (just a bit more than the CS IMHO) and has a nice cut across the midrange but still has the snarl of the MM whereas i found the CS to be a bit too polite in the upper mids
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Thanks for all the replies. I emailed Tim and he suggested the Ceramic Nailbomb, "The NBC is well suited to drop tunings and retains a really open voice no matter how much gain is applied without ever choking and is well suited to mahogany/maple guitars". Though your description of the Aftermath sounds extremely appealing...
Currently I'm playing out of a Line 6 Spider IV, but I'm planning to upgrade my equipment with the purchase of this pick-up. My friend has a 4x12 Orange Cab he's looking to get rid of, and I was leaning towards buying either an ENGL Powerball or possibly an Axe-Fx if I save up a little longer cuz my little 75 watter isn't gonna cut it beyond bedroom playing
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the spider will actually cut it live.
Ive been in a situation where i've had to use one and it worked perfectly well
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Really? I've only played out with it once and it sounded really scratchy when they mic'd it, though that could have been the sound guy's fault
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yeah it wont sound fantastic but you can get it to gig volumes.
I used a podxt for the actual tones on the clean channel though so it sounded a bit better but not loads better
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Annoyingly, Joe public doesn't really give a monkeys about what we play through. From what I've seen the audience is more interested in having a good time rather than thinking 'oh he's playing through some hemp cones'. it's just us sad buggers addicted to the guitar and tone that notices, oh and the other gear heads in the audience.
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very true. I went to a battle of the bands the other day.
Which is a terrible place to have a bad tone which 2 out of the 4 bands had.
It was worse that rather than paying attention to what they were playing as almost everyone that was there were guitarists or musicains they were just complaining about the tone.
ironically the band with the worst sound that got the least votes was the band with the highest level of talent
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I know exactly what you mean. I find most 'normal' people couldn't care less as long as they can hear what's being played and recognise it. I don't think many people in my own circle of family and friends have noticed any difference in my tone for years. Different guitars, amps and pickups leave them just hearing the same thing. Of course, there's a fair chance my poor playing isn't helping :lol: It would be a lot cheaper for me if I just played to what the average audience member actually heard as then I could just use a starter guitar with stock pups through a cr@ppy solid state amp. All of the other money I've spent and gear I've bought has been purely for me I think.
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I know for one that I play much better if I feel that my sound is "cooking" tranny amps and such don't sound too bad at home, however they have never cut it for me on the live gig, I'm sure that most of us have done a gig where the backline is supplied, and as always substandard! the results, poor performance.
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Yes, I'll grant you that. It is far better to feel like a Rock God if you think you're playing with a godly tone. 8)
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I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the problems you will encounter if you're planning on combining your active EMG in the neck with a passive bridge pickup - it's quite a headache, you will need to run separate pots of different values for each pickup.
Ignoring that issue for a moment, I think the Nailbomb bridge would be a great choice for you.
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oh yeah i completely forgot about the active + passive issues its a huge headache
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It's a good job we have you around Nolly as I'd also completely forgotten about the active pickup in the neck position as well! I think you'd be VERY well advised to ditch both of the EMG pickups and get a BKP set. They're far better than any EMG anyway :D
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You are sooo right about most listeners... a lot of them would not tell you any difference between a 200 dollar solid state and 2000 dollar valve amp, but who cares? If you are happy with your own tone, thats worth a lot =)
And, a big plus for BKPs: They all sound much clearer than most other pus out there.
A lot of people will not be able to tell differences because they have no comparison, BUT they will notice if your sound is undefined, muddy and they barely recognize the notes ;-)
So, end of story? BKPs help you and the audience 8)
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Is there a way around the active+passive conundrum? I wasn't aware that that would be a problem :(
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Well, as Nolly said, each pickup would need its own individual pots rather than sharing things like volume controls and due to power differences these pots may well need to be of different values. On the whole it would be easier just to get two really high quality Bare Knuckles instead of just one 8)
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Alright, well it looks like I'm in the market for two then! I still can't decide between the Aftermath or C-Bomb for the bridge... What would pair well with each of these? I use the neck pup for cleans mostly, so I need it to provide very pristine cleans. I'm not a big fan of a 'twangy' tone, but I still like to hear it when you pluck a string or strum a chord
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well what you can do if you dont use a tone pot is
vol pot 1 = 500k for the bridge passive
vol pot 2 = 25k for the neck active.
I've done it in the past and the main problem was balancing the volumes whilst still getting the most out of the active
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the mississippi queen would work well in the neck and deliver nice thick pristine cleans.
you will get some hum however with it being a p90 in a humbucker housing
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How would a Cold Sweat match up with either? I've read good things about them and I like the demos I've heard a lot
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A cold sweat would match up perfectly well with either