Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: dani on January 04, 2011, 05:14:41 PM
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firstly, congratulations on the new website going live! been listening to and a/b-ing all those clips for the past hour and a half and narrowed down my preference to an aftermath and holy diver.
lest i get too far ahead of myself, i am after a 7-string bridge humbucker that does a tight rhythm, warm leads and sweet cleans. that brings us back to the aftermath and holy diver.
from what i heard, the aftermath is perfect for the surgically tight rhythm response that i am looking for but it is somehow lacking in the cleans and lead department. and that's where the holy diver shines. the fluidity, harmonic richness, warm mids and rounded highs sounded really sweet for both leads and cleans in the bridge position.
that said, is there a pickup that combine both the aftermath and holy diver into a single bridge humbucker to a degree? say, a sweeter aftermath or a tighter holy diver? i am leaning towards the aftermath since the tracking and response can't be replicated by the holy diver but i am also hoping utilising tone shapers can turn the aftermath into a pseudo-holy diver.
aftermath users, does turning the tone knob down or using an eq pedal to shape the mids and highs brings the aftermath close to the holy diver? your opinions and recommendations is greatly appreciated.
i will be stoked if tim can somehow custom-build a humbucker with the above-said characteristics of both the aftermath and holy diver. it will be my perfect do-it-all bridge pickup.
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You could get a ceramic holy diver. You'd be one of very few people that have one, and I'm not one of them so I cant comment with any authority on the tone you'll get, but in theory it should deliver what you want.
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I'm after this exact thing myself. I have a new Bernie Rico 7 that I just got and I went with the Crunchlab/Liquifire
set in it and I'm not trilled by the Crunchlab. so I talked to Zimbloth and he reminded me, that I had once played one of his 7 string BRJ vixens that had a 7 string Rebel yell in it that I really liked, so I have one on order.
supposedly it should get me right in there between the Aftermath and the Holydiver.
I'll let you know when It arrives.
I have a Painkiller set in my Ibanez Rg7Ct and originally I was going to replace that bridge painkiller with the
Rebel yell, but I knid of like the Painkiller now? who know all of these BK 7 string pickups sound great to me. :lol:
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You could get a ceramic holy diver. You'd be one of very few people that have one, and I'm not one of them so I cant comment with any authority on the tone you'll get, but in theory it should deliver what you want.
Is it still possible to order one from Tim?
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Or the ceramic Nailbomb.
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the ceramic nailbomb is definitely brighter than the holy diver no? didn't really appealed to me from the clips i've heard though.
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You could get a ceramic holy diver. You'd be one of very few people that have one, and I'm not one of them so I cant comment with any authority on the tone you'll get, but in theory it should deliver what you want.
Is it still possible to order one from Tim?
No. You have to answer me these questions three
What is your favourite colour?
What is an example of a unitary n-dimensional vector space?
How awesome is Machine Head, Burn My Eyes?
Of course you can order it from tim!
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You could get a ceramic holy diver. You'd be one of very few people that have one, and I'm not one of them so I cant comment with any authority on the tone you'll get, but in theory it should deliver what you want.
Is it still possible to order one from Tim?
No. You have to answer me these questions three
What is your favourite colour?
What is an example of a unitary n-dimensional vector space?
How awesome is Machine Head, Burn My Eyes?
Of course you can order it from tim!
:mrgreen: gonna do some research on the ceramic holy diver. say, the old-spec holy diver did come with a ceramic magnet no? is that the one i should be looking at or the new-spec with a ceramic magnet?
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Hmm??? ceramic Holy diver? I would love to hear some more about this option
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Hmm??? ceramic Holy diver? I would love to hear some more about this option
thick grindy mids infinite combo... sounds intriguing for sure, tho i doubt it would be my cup of tea
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You could get a ceramic holy diver. You'd be one of very few people that have one, and I'm not one of them so I cant comment with any authority on the tone you'll get, but in theory it should deliver what you want.
Is it still possible to order one from Tim?
No. You have to answer me these questions three
What is your favourite colour?
What is an example of a unitary n-dimensional vector space?
How awesome is Machine Head, Burn My Eyes?
Of course you can order it from tim!
:mrgreen: gonna do some research on the ceramic holy diver. say, the old-spec holy diver did come with a ceramic magnet no? is that the one i should be looking at or the new-spec with a ceramic magnet?
New version, ceramic magnet.
Acceptable answers included but were not limited to:
Blue
Hilbert space
$%&#ing awesome
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apparently, a new-spec holydiver with a ceramic = painkiller, according to tim. and no, there's no chance for a a5 aftermath bridge either.
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I'd have thought that tighter than a Holy Diver and sweeter than an Aftermath is an Alnico Nailbomb.
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apparently, a new-spec holydiver with a ceramic = painkiller, according to tim. and no, there's no chance for a a5 aftermath bridge either.
the painkiller has 3 magnets, so a single ceramic magnet holy diver would still be different and probably less "clacky"
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I'd have thought that tighter than a Holy Diver and sweeter than an Aftermath is an Alnico Nailbomb.
if we were talking about a holy diver x miracle man mid term, then I'd say nailbomb
I don't know how is the aftermath midrange arranged, but the alnico nailbomb had a noticeable upper mid scoop to my ears, although it had a fair amount of low and center mids and a ton of high end
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Interestingly I have both these pickups in my 7 strings (both Ibanez RG1527s).
You can "warm up" the Am's cleans to a certain extent by standing on a chorus pedal and/or rolling back the tone, but there's still no mistaking that it's a ceramic magnet pickup. IMHO there isn't another bridge humbucker in existence with as nice a clean as the Holy Diver.
On the flip side, the HD can handle the staccato riffing thing - actually I was quite surprised at how good it was in a 7-string given that one of my favourite features of it in "normal" tuning was its warmth & "roundness". Perhaps the thing I like best about the new clips is that the HD "Modern Metal" clip should IMO finally lay to rest the myth that the HD can't do this kind of riffing.
I've never tried a ceramic "diver", although I do own a few of the old-spec 'Diver which was a ceramic magnet - kinda sounds halfway between current A5 'Diver & CS, though I've not tried it tuned lower than Eb. The old-spec HD does get you a little of that ceramic tightness while retaining much of the fat mids. However, I don't they will wind the old 'Diver anymore.
Just for interest's sake, why not a Painkiller? It usually enters into a "Diver with a bit more tightness" thread... :)
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apparently, a new-spec holydiver with a ceramic = painkiller, according to tim. and no, there's no chance for a a5 aftermath bridge either.
Interesting. I didnt know that they were c8/a5 versions of each other.
Failing that, then, the ceramic nailbomb is a good suggestion. Its a bit smoother and sweeter than the aftermath, a bit sharper and tighter than the HD.
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Perhaps Antag or MDV or someone else with an Aftermath could clarify this but I was really surprised when I heard the clip on the new site of the Aftermath. All of the descriptions I've read on the forum seem to focus on the idea that it's 'super tight' and punishes mistakes in playing and I'd think that this might put some people off - it certainly would me. It doesn't help that the description of the Aftermath on the new site has a focus on modern Metal and low tunings. The logical conclusion would appear to be that unless you're a super skilled modern Metal player, playing in drop tunings the Aftermath isn't for you, yet what I heard on the clip didn't suggest that at all.
To me the pickup had a remarkably warm and organic tone to it that in a way reminded me of the C-Bomb but to my ears the distortion seemed rather smoother and more rounded. While there was certainly articulation there, the tone seemed a lot fatter than I'd expected. Perhaps I've been interpreting 'tight' as 'thin' when in fact it's meant as 'articulated'. One of the things I don't like about the JB is that, while it's quite articulated, it's also annoyingly thin sounding so I've always dismissed the idea of an Aftermath as the phrase 'super tight' made me think it would be even worse than the JB! My guess would be that it is more versatile than these descriptions give it credit. I would love to have heard a 'Hair Metal' clip from it because by leaving that out, it just perpetuates the idea that this is not a versatile pickup. I was surprised at how warm, organic, fat and fluid it was while also being very articulated.
Perhaps I'm completely wrong in this and my description of what I heard is well wide of the mark but I'd certainly welcome some clarification from an Aftermath player.
EDIT: Sorry MDV, you posted while I was typing and you seem to see the C-bomb as smoother than the AM whereas I heard the C-Bomb as a touch grittier. I would obviously bow to your superior knowledge but I'd still welcome your clarification of what I wrote above :)
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My guess would be that it is more versatile than these descriptions give it credit. I would love to have heard a 'Hair Metal' clip from it because by leaving that out, it just perpetuates the idea that this is not a versatile pickup. I was surprised at how warm, organic, fat and fluid it was while also being very articulated.
Perhaps I'm completely wrong in this and my description of what I heard is well wide of the mark but I'd certainly welcome some clarification from an Aftermath player.
In an ideal world, the new site would have ever type of clip for every single pickup. At a certain point, though, it becomes counterproductive for Tim to do this for logistical and business reasons. Some pickups excel at certain styles better than others. The flat 50's tele set pulled off an awesome modern metal sound (in my opinion obviously), but that doesn't mean it should be in your go-to metal guitar. It just highlights how versatile all these pickups are with the right gear.
Each pickup has a genre "sweet spot" that it excels at (based on the listener's personal taste of course). Tim designed the aftermath for tight riffing, so it makes sense that he's going to market it to the modern metal crowd. That there is no hair metal clip of the aftermath doesn't mean it can't do it that sound; it just means that Tim didn't put a clip of it doing hair metal.
There are so many pickups that BKP makes. It's only fair that some difference between pickups are going to be subtle, especially with high gain. I would be more inclined to assume that a pickup could do a style is wasn't "known" for rather than assuming it couldn't.
Sorry for rambling. Something in your post made me want to write all of this :lol:
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Yes, I certainly accept your point and I wasn't wanting to suggest any criticism of Tim or BKP, I was merely trying to get across that the Aftermath would appear to be far more versatile than the description and forum posts may suggest. In fact, I think I already recall a post from someone suggesting that the Aftermath was more versatile than everyone was giving it credit for so I'm clearly not the first person to jump to this mistaken conclusion. The bit I was most interested in clarifying was this:
To me the pickup had a remarkably warm and organic tone to it that in a way reminded me of the C-Bomb but to my ears the distortion seemed rather smoother and more rounded. While there was certainly articulation there, the tone seemed a lot fatter than I'd expected. Perhaps I've been interpreting 'tight' as 'thin' when in fact it's meant as 'articulated'. One of the things I don't like about the JB is that, while it's quite articulated, it's also annoyingly thin sounding so I've always dismissed the idea of an Aftermath as the phrase 'super tight' made me think it would be even worse than the JB! My guess would be that it is more versatile than these descriptions give it credit. I was surprised at how warm, organic, fat and fluid it was while also being very articulated.
Perhaps I'm completely wrong in this and my description of what I heard is well wide of the mark but I'd certainly welcome some clarification from an Aftermath player.
I'm making comments based soley on the clip, as will many others, but it makes sense to learn more about this pickup from the relatively few people who currently own it.
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Yes, I certainly accept your point and I wasn't wanting to suggest any criticism of Tim or BKP, I was merely trying to get across that the Aftermath would appear to be far more versatile than the description and forum posts may suggest. In fact, I think I already recall a post from someone suggesting that the Aftermath was more versatile than everyone was giving it credit for so I'm clearly not the first person to jump to this mistaken conclusion. The bit I was most interested in clarifying was this:
I'm making comments based soley on the clip, as will many others, but it makes sense to learn more about this pickup from the relatively few people who currently own it.
True. I guess what I was trying to say is that this pickup happens to excel at a particular area not associated with Hair Metal. Tim already makes a bunch of pickups that are geared toward that. If you only have one guitar and you only want the best pickup ever created for tech metal AND you want the best pickup ever created for hair metal, then you got a problem. But these pickups can handle a lot of styles convincingly just based on their construction and quality of materials. Nolly touts the Mules as being able to do all styles, and they're not even close to the design of a Holydiver or an Aftermath.
You're right that it might appear that the aftermath can only do one style based on the website and how it's being used by certain guitarists, but I try not to pay too much attention to marketing or what the masses think anyway.
Much of the hair metal sound is the amp/effects anyway :wink:
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Perhaps Antag or MDV or someone else with an Aftermath could clarify this but I was really surprised when I heard the clip on the new site of the Aftermath. All of the descriptions I've read on the forum seem to focus on the idea that it's 'super tight' and punishes mistakes in playing and I'd think that this might put some people off - it certainly would me. It doesn't help that the description of the Aftermath on the new site has a focus on modern Metal and low tunings. The logical conclusion would appear to be that unless you're a super skilled modern Metal player, playing in drop tunings the Aftermath isn't for you, yet what I heard on the clip didn't suggest that at all.
To me the pickup had a remarkably warm and organic tone to it that in a way reminded me of the C-Bomb but to my ears the distortion seemed rather smoother and more rounded. While there was certainly articulation there, the tone seemed a lot fatter than I'd expected. Perhaps I've been interpreting 'tight' as 'thin' when in fact it's meant as 'articulated'. One of the things I don't like about the JB is that, while it's quite articulated, it's also annoyingly thin sounding so I've always dismissed the idea of an Aftermath as the phrase 'super tight' made me think it would be even worse than the JB! My guess would be that it is more versatile than these descriptions give it credit. I would love to have heard a 'Hair Metal' clip from it because by leaving that out, it just perpetuates the idea that this is not a versatile pickup. I was surprised at how warm, organic, fat and fluid it was while also being very articulated.
Perhaps I'm completely wrong in this and my description of what I heard is well wide of the mark but I'd certainly welcome some clarification from an Aftermath player.
EDIT: Sorry MDV, you posted while I was typing and you seem to see the C-bomb as smoother than the AM whereas I heard the C-Bomb as a touch grittier. I would obviously bow to your superior knowledge but I'd still welcome your clarification of what I wrote above :)
I would say your description there of the Aftermath is pretty much what i found.
To me its another of those pickups that sounds more like the player than what people think it will sound like.
I think if people looked at my aftermath clips and then at MDV's not knowing they were the same pickup even if we used the exact same gear it would still sound completely different.
So i guess in all its a very user responsive pickup in my eyes anyway.
EDIT: oh yeah also note i don't play super tight modern downtuned metal either My aftermath is currently in a guitar in standard tuning ( in an extended scale guitar) and is currently being used for playing classic rock and it absolutely rocks for it :D
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Perhaps Antag or MDV or someone else with an Aftermath could clarify this but I was really surprised when I heard the clip on the new site of the Aftermath. All of the descriptions I've read on the forum seem to focus on the idea that it's 'super tight' and punishes mistakes in playing and I'd think that this might put some people off - it certainly would me. It doesn't help that the description of the Aftermath on the new site has a focus on modern Metal and low tunings. The logical conclusion would appear to be that unless you're a super skilled modern Metal player, playing in drop tunings the Aftermath isn't for you, yet what I heard on the clip didn't suggest that at all.
To me the pickup had a remarkably warm and organic tone to it that in a way reminded me of the C-Bomb but to my ears the distortion seemed rather smoother and more rounded. While there was certainly articulation there, the tone seemed a lot fatter than I'd expected. Perhaps I've been interpreting 'tight' as 'thin' when in fact it's meant as 'articulated'. One of the things I don't like about the JB is that, while it's quite articulated, it's also annoyingly thin sounding so I've always dismissed the idea of an Aftermath as the phrase 'super tight' made me think it would be even worse than the JB! My guess would be that it is more versatile than these descriptions give it credit. I would love to have heard a 'Hair Metal' clip from it because by leaving that out, it just perpetuates the idea that this is not a versatile pickup. I was surprised at how warm, organic, fat and fluid it was while also being very articulated.
Perhaps I'm completely wrong in this and my description of what I heard is well wide of the mark but I'd certainly welcome some clarification from an Aftermath player.
EDIT: Sorry MDV, you posted while I was typing and you seem to see the C-bomb as smoother than the AM whereas I heard the C-Bomb as a touch grittier. I would obviously bow to your superior knowledge but I'd still welcome your clarification of what I wrote above :)
Youre not wrong - it really depends how exactly you play to its strengths. Its got an ultra-tight low end. This makes it ideal for low-tuned modern metal riffing. It also gains a lot of its definition from a forward mid, and its got quite a bit of top end but its nicely balanced between smooth and gritty, and its clarity lead it to have superb note separation. The latter characteristics mean that if youre playing more conventional rock youre going to benefit from those mids and the note separation, while the ultra-tightness and dryness of it are much less relevent to you if youre not accustomed to (trying to) blitz fretboards in assaults of manic riffing and shred.
Its relative, I think - relative to a more conventional metal pickup the AM is dry, tight and unforgiving, but those are non-factors to an extent if youre not playing metal, and its thick-but-clear mids come to the fore if youre after a rockier tone for simpler material.
IMO.
It is without a doubt (to my ears at least) a grittier and less saturated pickup than the C-Bomb. My main 4 guitars are 2x c-bomb and 2x AM, and every pickup has been in every guitar, so I'm pretty certain of that.
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It's certainly quite clear from the website that for some of these pickups, when we talk of differences, it's sometimes down to quite subtle nuances. Antag is perfectly correct that the Holy Diver can certainly do Metal and gives a sweet lead tone into the bargain. I really liked it. When I started looking at the A-Bomb I found it tighter than the HD and still with a very organic, sweet feel to the leads but not quite as sweet as the HD. The C-Bomb simply carried on in the same direction. A bit tighter with some added grit but losing some sweetness in the leads. I found the Aftermath to have some of the qualities of both the C-Bomb and A-Bomb. It was certainly highly articulate like the C-Bomb yet the tone seemed a bit fatter and less sterile, while not being quite as organic as the A-Bomb. Somewhere between the two really. I actually found it harder to choose between the A-Bomb and AM than between the C-Bomb and AM and at first I found that surprising but perhaps it's because they have an EQ that is noted on the site as being exactly the same.
I confess that for a while there I was sorely tempted by the AM, especially when I read gwEm say "Maple neck through guitars love ceramic pickups" but having thought about it, by any sane definition, the A-Bomb is super tight anyway and has that touch extra sweetness and fluidity. I still think I'm going to go for an A-Bomb with a burnt chrome cover and at least one row of allen screws. In terms of articulation, it shouldn't end up a poke in the eye away from an AM anyway and the added advantage is that I can go with the Sinner single coils with that option and they may not work as well with an AM as they'd be out powering the bridge. God I wish that guitar shop would hurry up and sell my guitar so I can order them!