Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: woodaki on January 14, 2011, 02:02:20 PM
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Hi there fellow tone freaks!!! :D I am new to this forum!!!!
I decided its time to change my 500T bridge pickup again!!!! I mention ''again'' cause 2-3 years ago i replaced it with a Miracle Man. I have to admit that it wasnt the right pickup for me!!! As if my Explorer didnt want it all if u know what i mean!!! :P Those 2 couldnt get along, period!!! It wasnt as lively and screaming like the 500T and it lacked focused mid-range!!! However the squeals of the MM where coming out of it everywhere on the fretboard, think of Z.Wylde kinda thing!!! I wasnt happy with that and i decided to borrow a friends identical Explorer to compare them side by side just in case my ears were making fun of me!!! I was right!!! The explorer with the 500t on it sounded heavier and darker with lots of clarity and presence. Overall the sound was cutting through!!! My explorer sounded muddy, undefined, ''not singing''. Something was missing so i decided to put the 500T back!!! (Sold the MM to friend who was building a Warmoth super-strat project and was very happy with it) Is there anything you would recommend close to the tonal characteristics of the 500T but ''better'' in overall???? If i dont go with Bareknuckle this time i am thinking of ordering a MuscleBucker from Borris Domenget (a guitar luthier who makes guitars somewhere in Germany, he makes guitars for R.Schenker and M. Jabs for the Scorpions as well)
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Ah Domenget, just be careful he doesn't sell you "special snake oil" too. The level of "Voodoo bullshitee" is extremely high among German tone freaks/experts/luthiers. I follow the discussions in Gitarre&Bass (with Udo Piper) and some forums and seriously.... sometimes I gotta shake my head.
That said, let's be more constructive and stop the bashing. :D
I did replace my 500T with a Miracle Man, I felt the MM was clearer. I do understand your points about the midrange though.
If the main problem was muddiness, the Rebel Yell could clear that. Check the new BKP website. If you want more grind and power for metal, the new Aftermath might be what you want.
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the painkiller is the closest replacement to the 500t, but it's no near as grinding and bass heavy
maybe a c-pig would deliver that amount of compression
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Thanx for your answers fellas!!! I have to admit that i am in some kind of dillema!!! I think that by having this guitar for about 16 years my ear is very used to the the tone of 500T and thats why everything else seems that is missing something!!! I think that many of you felt exactly like me in similar circumstances!!! Besides the MM i have tried the Sd Full Shred, Jb and Duncan Distortion, a 500xl, a Dimarzio Tonezone even EMGs during the past years. Every time the 500T was back in its place!!! My guitar tech adviced me that i should probably leave the guitar as is!!! What do u think about that? Have you ever been in a similar situation ??
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Ah Domenget, just be careful he doesn't sell you "special snake oil" too. The level of "Voodoo bullshiteeee" is extremely high among German tone freaks/experts/luthiers. I follow the discussions in Gitarre&Bass (with Udo Piper) and some forums and seriously.... sometimes I gotta shake my head.
yes, i tend to agree. he charges alot of money for his pickups too
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As far as i remember he asked me about 200+ Euros for a Musclebucker!!! Anyway...
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If you keep changing the pickup only to go back to the 500T then I suspect the pickup for your guitar is the 500T.
However it is fun experimenting, albeit expensive.
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If you keep changing the pickup only to go back to the 500T then I suspect the pickup for your guitar is the 500T.
However it is fun experimenting, albeit expensive.
+1
Sometimes there really isn't a "better" solution, just a different one.
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Close to getting a MM set for my '76 Explorer (2007) too. I find it flubs out a bit through my Dual Recto/412Recto cab. Wanting evil downtuned power chord tones (think Morgoth's Cursed album, I'm old!) that can hold that black tone through sustain. Also want some tightness for fast palm muting.
However opinion on the MM is divided it seems. The amp & guitar obviously have a big impact.
BKP returned my email questions fast and suggested MMs for what I want to achieve.
In some clips of the MM I have listened to I'm not sure if they are evil enough. I want a truly dark sound but I want cut and clarity too. Originally was going to throw good old 81/85 set in as my tech knowledge is fairly limited, but I knew these EMGs can cut through flub. Mostly a metal rhythm player but also like to shred a little (if you could call it that). I mostly prefer to act as the war hammer :twisted:
Should i get the MM set?
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I would personally or the aftermath if you want something that cuts more than both the MM & EMGS.
However Dual rectifiers are very flubby amps by nature you could potentially be better off initially getting an overdrive pedal to tighten it up and keep the lows in check.
My vote pickupwise goes to the MM its by far my favourite BKP
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get a painkiller, never look back!
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The level of "Voodoo bullshiteeee" is extremely high among German tone freaks/experts/luthiers. I follow the discussions in Gitarre&Bass (with Udo Piper) and some forums and seriously.... sometimes I gotta shake my head.
Indeed but this is in no way limited to German tone freaks.
Back to topic: After all I have read I believe you should stay with the 500T.
Cheers Stephan
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I would personally or the aftermath if you want something that cuts more than both the MM & EMGS.
While they may not cut like an Aftermath, do the MMs have more bottom end doom?
However Dual rectifiers are very flubby amps by nature you could potentially be better off initially getting an overdrive pedal to tighten it up and keep the lows in check.
My vote pickupwise goes to the MM its by far my favourite BKP
Convincing vote for the MM. Backs up what Ben from BKP told me.
get a painkiller, never look back!
Why would you go for the Painkiller over the MM for what I want to do? Just curious
Back to topic: After all I have read I believe you should stay with the 500T.
Cheers Stephan
Sorry for the hijack, but do you think that the MM (or other BKP of similar taste) would out perform the 500T? No point in spending all that $ if they won't do better than the 500T.
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The C-pigs have that awesome doom tone I'm after in the clip on the BKP site. I just wonder if they would lack the bottom end cut I want.
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The C-pigs have that awesome doom tone I'm after in the clip on the BKP site. I just wonder if they would lack the bottom end cut I want.
As a longtime C-pig user and enthusiast I can safely say it has PLENTY of Low-end Cut! :p
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If you keep changing the pickup only to go back to the 500T then I suspect the pickup for your guitar is the 500T.
However it is fun experimenting, albeit expensive.
+1
Sometimes there really isn't a "better" solution, just a different one.
I've thought about swapping the pickups in my Explorers as well. But then I play them, and they sound perfect.
The 500T really shines in an Explorer. But I hated it when I installed one in a Les Paul. Go figure...
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The C-pigs have that awesome doom tone I'm after in the clip on the BKP site. I just wonder if they would lack the bottom end cut I want.
As a longtime C-pig user and enthusiast I can safely say it has PLENTY of Low-end Cut! :p
Thanks a lot. I liked the Miracle Man but I think the C-Pig is just more evil sounding. My only reservation with the C-Pigs is that I've read that maybe in a mahogany guitar like my Explorer combined with a loose rig like my DR, that they might not eliminate the flub I want gone. You seem to think they are plenty tight in the bottom end though it seems.
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"You seem to think they are plenty tight in the bottom end."
That's what SHE said!
:p
I digress; Yes, it is plenty tight, trust me. However, I dial in a distinctly flub-free sound for the stuff I do. My C-pig is in a Gibson SG-1 through a Randall RH100 and a Marshall 1982 Cab. It can do chug and slamming very, very easily, although that's not entirely what I go for normally. I use different settings for a harsher, more black metal type tone.
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Thanks. The guitar and and rig are obviusly major factors. I think I'm just confusing myself now. When I emailed BKP with my wish list, Ben said MM suits me best. Then the tone of the C-Pig in the modern metal clip on the BKP site really blew me away. (Got to mention that Ben has given me a heap of time and info on my quest, great service and I'm not even a customer yet).
However I have to remember that C-Pig tone was not created with my guitar/rig. I am getting a serious lack of definition at the moment. Power chords are OK but full chords are a mess.
My head is saying listen to the manufacturer and go MM.
My heart is saying go stupid and get C-Pigs.
While reading posts in various foums I've found that in general the MMs don't seem to get the attention that C-pigs, PKs, NBs and AMs do for metal. I wonder why? Are they a bit of a sleeper?
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follow your heart. Ben does not have the same ears as you do, which is the most important thing. And the Cpig has plenty of definition in chords. it even sounds decent clean.
Bear in mind that all the bkp clips are recorded on a Axe-fx
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Thanks. I want old ladies to start praying when they hear my tone.
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I would personally or the aftermath if you want something that cuts more than both the MM & EMGS.
While they may not cut like an Aftermath, do the MMs have more bottom end doom?
However Dual rectifiers are very flubby amps by nature you could potentially be better off initially getting an overdrive pedal to tighten it up and keep the lows in check.
My vote pickupwise goes to the MM its by far my favourite BKP
Convincing vote for the MM. Backs up what Ben from BKP told me.
get a painkiller, never look back!
Why would you go for the Painkiller over the MM for what I want to do? Just curious
Back to topic: After all I have read I believe you should stay with the 500T.
Cheers Stephan
Sorry for the hijack, but do you think that the MM (or other BKP of similar taste) would out perform the 500T? No point in spending all that $ if they won't do better than the 500T.
The miracle man definitely has more low end and is also more aggresively voiced.
The best way to think about it really is teh Aftermath is surgically precise but rather clean sounding whilst the miracle man is more the bruiser of the pair that has the low end/low mid punch and growl and the high end snarl
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I had a 500T in my V and really didn't like it. I put a Riff Raff in and couldn't be happier.
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The miracle man definitely has more low end and is also more aggresively voiced.
The best way to think about it really is teh Aftermath is surgically precise but rather clean sounding whilst the miracle man is more the bruiser of the pair that has the low end/low mid punch and growl and the high end snarl
Thanks a lot. What's your opinion on the C-Pig v MM for my guitar, rig and tone preferences (articulate doom)? C-Pig too flabby in my setup as some say (and others refute)? Not ignoring the advice of others, just gathering a few different opinions.
I had a 500T in my V and really didn't like it. I put a Riff Raff in and couldn't be happier.
I'm sure the Riff Raff is great but probably wouldn't do the metal tones I am after. A vote for BKP nonetheless.
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... do you think that the MM (or other BKP of similar taste) would out perform the 500T?
I think that I would like it better than the 500T but I have never played a 500T. The Gibson pickups I played (Classic 57 and older T tops and PAF replicas) were nothing spectacular though whereas I liked all BKPs I played.
I do like my MM in my alder bodied strat.
I do believe that the MM will outperform the 500T in terms of clarity if that is what you are looking for. The 500T is usually described as a very hot pickup that has a very grinding tone in the midrange. Most of the folks who change from the 500T seek more clarity and/or less output. But if somebody seeks a super hot pickup with grinding midrange where clarity is not the main focus the 500T may outperform the MM in that regard.
In terms of build quality I am convinced BKP will outperform anything Gibson has put out in decades.
Bottom line is if you like the 500T I don't see much reason to change it.
Cheers Stephan
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the 500t is the typical super high output common people like
bassy, middy, trebly, saturated, compressed and has no dynamics at all
I'd say it's somewhere between the dimarzio super distortion and x2n, or between the duncan distortion and duncan invader
no bkp will have kind of mushy sound with harsh highs that some might love
miracle man has cleaner and leaner center and upper midrange, aftermath and painkiller have a lot less bass, cold sweat is much thinner and cleaner, c-bomb is still not as high output and compressed
I can't tell about the c-pig, but the alnico pig is still not as hot as a 500t
all of them are a lot clearer and a lot more sensible to pickup height, woods, guitar construction, amps, boosters and HANDS
but I understand some people might prefer a pickup that does most of the job without having to bother about anything else
I've been there until I met BKPs 8)
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Miracle man no doubt man...I´ve had 500T for a while and it´s great pickup...Now I have MM in the same axe and I´m quite happy with tone...As guys say MM it´s clearer,smoother not so harsh but palm mute riffs sound huge and deep....Only thing what you could miss it´s that gibsonish dirty midrange but as bonus you´ll get amazing clarity...
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Close to getting a MM set for my '76 Explorer (2007) too. I find it flubs out a bit through my Dual Recto/412Recto cab. Wanting evil downtuned power chord tones (think Morgoth's Cursed album, I'm old!) that can hold that black tone through sustain. Also want some tightness for fast palm muting.
However opinion on the MM is divided it seems. The amp & guitar obviously have a big impact.
BKP returned my email questions fast and suggested MMs for what I want to achieve.
In some clips of the MM I have listened to I'm not sure if they are evil enough. I want a truly dark sound but I want cut and clarity too. Originally was going to throw good old 81/85 set in as my tech knowledge is fairly limited, but I knew these EMGs can cut through flub. Mostly a metal rhythm player but also like to shred a little (if you could call it that). I mostly prefer to act as the war hammer :twisted:
Should i get the MM set?
You may want to try a Maxon OD808 or a Keely TS9+ Mod to tighten up your the low-end. They boost the mids to give you a cut, but you might want to dial the tone knob back on the pedal a bit. I have both, recently just adding the Maxxon. I have to say that I am more impressed with the Maxon, but I haven't given it time to let my ears open to it.
I always preferred the Stiletto cabs as oppose to the Recto-Cabs. I always found the Recto-Cab to be a bit boomy, or flubby to my ears. The Stiletto a little smaller in dimension, and has less air space to move, therefore giving a more of a percussive punch if you will. I do like the Celestion Vintage 30's, and I use these speakers primary in any cab that I have used.
Tim seems really experience, and I can say he is very patient. If he recommends the Miracleman, he is probably dead-on, if you have been very descriptive of your complaints and needs.
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I have a Maxon OD9+ and just got a noise gate which makes the Maxon a lot more usable. Haven't done a lot of ecperimenting with these yet. I do like to get a good tone without pedals first if possible.
Ben from BKP recommended the MM set. Since getting this advice I've done more research and seen a few more clips and am agreeing with the MM choice more and more. Still tossing up between MM, C-Bomb and C-Pig. The MM will give that EMG style cut I think I need to brighten up my sound.
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I had a 500T in my V and really didn't like it. I put a Riff Raff in and couldn't be happier.
I'm sure the Riff Raff is great but probably wouldn't do the metal tones I am after. A vote for BKP nonetheless.
Probably not, but it's the best I could do as I have next to no experience in the style of music you're playing with the guitar :D
From my V I wanted something along the lines of Randy Rhoads and Michael Schenker and Tim recommended the Riff Raff and he was pretty much spot on.
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Further research is backing Ben's call on the MMs. However some say the cleans are poor. But then, you can't have one guitar do it all and I'm looking at creating a doomed out metal axe with some real grind at high gain. I have a Strat and R7 for cleaner stuff.
Some use a different neck pickup (CS, Mule....others?) for some clean action, but maybe a set with two different pickups creates balancing problems. A calibrated set of the same pickups might work better and be more evenly balanced. More predictable result? Though it sounds good if you couldhave a brutal bridge and a sweet neck.
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MM does a much better job for cleans than the 500t or any other big brand ceramic I've tried
the high E can get annoying sometimes if you pick too hard at standard tuning, but that depends on the guitar as well
the MM boosts a lot of bass and treble, so the low E gets very bassy and the high E gets very trebly
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MM does a much better job for cleans than the 500t or any other big brand ceramic I've tried
the high E can get annoying sometimes if you pick too hard at standard tuning, but that depends on the guitar as well
the MM boosts a lot of bass and treble, so the low E gets very bassy and the high E gets very trebly
Thanks for the info. Would you vote for or against the MMs for my Explorer/Recto (dark guitar, loose amp)? Maybe the bass would be too much. It dominates way too much at the moment. I thought the MM might add cut to the bass and tame it so it was more defined....??
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bass is pretty solid
don't worry about it mushing out
but if you really want a bit less bass or more mids, try the c-bomb
cold sweat is very controlled and the clearest of all ceramic models, imo
if clarity is your priority, you should consider it
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bass is pretty solid
don't worry about it mushing out
but if you really want a bit less bass or more mids, try the c-bomb
cold sweat is very controlled and the clearest of all ceramic models, imo
if clarity is your priority, you should consider it
Thanks. Taking it all in. I'm all over the shop now! Lack of definition is my main problem, especially when playing full chords with gain. Totally mushed out mess. Aftermaths also have real tight bass I hear.
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bass is pretty solid
don't worry about it mushing out
but if you really want a bit less bass or more mids, try the c-bomb
cold sweat is very controlled and the clearest of all ceramic models, imo
if clarity is your priority, you should consider it
+1, on all counts.
Cheers Stephan