Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: fbloke on February 02, 2011, 04:21:15 PM
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If so, any good?
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Hiya, :)
Not something I've used, but two points come to mind :
My mate's Mum has used it for years to help with reactive, mild - and shorter term depressive episodes ; both as a curative and as a preventative . She claims it to be very effective for her, and is rational enough to have ruled out placebo effects e.t.c
Although 'mainstream' medicine do not seem to tout it ( at least in the U.K. ) I found it very interesting to note that if a person is taking (prescription ) M.A.O.I drugs, then St. John's Wort is cited as having enough of a chemical / Psycho-active action on neural pathways - as to make it dangerous to 'stack' with M.A.O.Is and certain S.S.R.I. drugs. What clouds the issue, is of course that the later warnings also apply ( to a lesser degree ) to other Herbal substances, like Ginko - and Ginseng.
I feel ( through experience but not intended as dogma ) - that if one is asking about the efficacy of 'over the counter' solutions - and /or attempting to Self medicate on such, then it's often better to discuss it with a health professional at the outset, even if the solution remains an informal one.
In B.K.P terms, I like to think of the visit to a General practitioner , as being the equivalent of " Wiring the pickup straight to the jack socket at the outset - to establish a solid foundation for further fault finding ". :)
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Very insightful and helpful post there, 4th Feline.
In my limited experience of St John's Wort, it didn't help, but didn't hinder. Not very helpful I'm afraid, but that was my experience!
Roo
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I'm not sure it's possible to be rational enough to completely discount the placebo effect. Not saying it doesn't work, I mean it's the same for modern medical drugs too, that's why they do double blinds.
Big problem with st john's wort, I think, is that it can interact with other medicines. So if you're taking other medicines, check with a doctor/pharmacist etc. that it's ok.
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In comparison to St.John's Wort ( or as an adjunct to 'formal' medical treatments ) I forgot to add, that far more effective, empirically proven - and relevent to the management of a much wider range of conditions, is of course moderate, but regular physical exercise.
Avoid the insiduous onset of over-training ( as that just triggers the loop going backwards again ) . A nice rule of thumb being to apply no more than 60- 75 % of the effort you could have applied to any given session - and spread those sessions out into smaller 'bites' through the day, week, month , year
If this sounds like under-acheiving in life / the Athletic arena, please bear in mind that I ( as being typical ) have established more dramatic personal records by training at 60-65% of what I could have done for long periods. You don't have to work that intensely to then occasionally test yourself for a new 100% / faster race time e.t.c. The body can be quite a slow adapting organism to exercise induced change, and therefore consistency wins over intensity .
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my ex used it, and she was a $%&#ing psychopath
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my ex used it, and she was a $%&#ing psychopath
Shame really, she should have tried exercise, then she could have been a cycle-path. :mrgreen:
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I've tried it and it just made me sleepy. I reach for that instead of popular over the counter sleeping pills as it doesn't leave you with that weird feeling in the morning. At least it smells better than Valerian root which also leaves a weird feeling in your throat like a pill is stuck when it's not. St. John's Wort has been proven as effective as many prescription drugs, so I say go for it, but don't forget about your good old buddy beer.
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I work for the NHS at the Prescription pricing centre and you would be amazed at just how many prescriptions come through for st johns wort and how damn expensive it is when ordered on prescription.
i can't obviously give out prices as its confidential but i can say that it is FAR cheaper to buy it yourself than for the NHS to pay for it
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at times in the past i considered trying it, but never did. growing older has sorted that out, and perhaps (dare i say it) regular exercise too.
so basically: i don't know :)
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I've used it in the past and found it quite good at lifting my mood in winter, but then I don't get depressed and have a strong ability to placebo-ise myself through pills and herbs (if that makes sense).
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Dr Tonemonkey prescribes Whiskey and Tramadol, it works for most things.
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Who the hell's precribing St John's Wort???
Current guidelines for the management of low mood and depression say that NO medication should be used except in moderate to severe cases, and that lifestyle adjustment and talking therapy are far superior in mild to moderate cases.
The effect St John's Wort has on your liver enzymes means there's a whole load of quite important drugs that it doesn't play nicely with as well.
Go and see your GP and get access to your local Psychology service for some CBT, although in many cases it's believed that reading a book such as this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Depression-recovery-self-help-programme/dp/1849010668/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296730377&sr=1-1
However, many people who say they have mild depression more accurately have low self esteem +/- social anxiety, so maybe http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Low-Self-Esteem-Melanie-Fennell/dp/1849010684/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296730470&sr=1-1 or http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Social-Anxiety-Shyness-Gillian/dp/1849010005/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296730496&sr=1-1
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i had a book prescription once.
one symptom of depression can be having a poor attention span. I'm kind of bad at reading books at the best of times so although I got them I just found reading them made me really angry & frustrated... mainly because of the content and because it felt like a chore. I've also done some online CBT thing... moodgym? google it. That had a negative effect too.
I went through that. And counseling. I never saw a proper psychologist though. I'm told that's very different to a counselor and the person I spoke to about that preferred the counselor. I had the unfortunate task of having to badger my GP to get anything done at the time. I mean I'd been to GP's on and off over years and years having blood test and stuff and everyone telling me I was fine... in my case, i found talking made me angry too. haha. The drugs i was given made me really sick too. really bad stomach pains, heartburn, worse stuff.
I think you just have to try stuff (within reason... see a gp if you're gonna digest stuff). lots of people have tried a range of things. I gave up when I was told I should join a pottery class for the depressed. I can think of nothing worse than hanging round making pots with other miserable people.
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Worked for me, could have been a placebo but CBT did a lot more for me. If I forgot to take it when going out I would get anxiety and I had a bit of a come down first time I stopped using it. Second time I had just got a new girlfriend and stopped by accident without noticing any effects.
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Great response to this one, many thanks to everyone for their input.
I've done counselling, CBT and physical therapies and am 90% better - not depressed but not quite firing on all cylinders either. I had a lot of stuff coming together at once and my whole system got overwhelmed and I burned-out. The thing I like about St Johns Wort is that it acts as a nerve tonic as well as an anti-depressant, so it acts as a kind of herbal "food" for the brain that helps the system to grow itself back to its natural state. I've been taking it for 4 days now and I'm sleeping a lot more deeply - maybe placebo as results usually take 2 weeks but I'm not ruling anything out.
Whilst researching nutrition I also discovered another natural substance that is great for B vitamins and other minerals that help the nervous system, thyroid and many other things. It is....drum roll please...
BREWER'S YEAST!!
Need I say more?
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I remember my Dear departed father starting each day with eggs in milk and a handful of Brewer's yeast, back in the 70s. As someone who was left with having to deal with the long term physical and psychological effects of being a combatant in WWII, he swore that the combination kept him physically healthier and emotionally calmer.
I find that not only a Mega-dose of B vits, but notably Fish oil ( originally taken for my sporting hobbies ) seems to encourage a better level of stability for me. I once read of an interesting 'demo' of fish oils, ( or seed based equivalents ) - that was to hold a mouthful of oil for about half a minute, and feel how your muscles noticably relax. It worked on me, whereas other 'test substances' did not. It makes sense that the brain's fatty acid composition , would benefit from being 'topped up' on a daily basis with such oils - and of course the smooth running of the energy release and myriad other systems would run smoother on a good B vitamin 'blast' - with the added benefit of the Selenium in Brewer's yeast.
I prefer a full range high dose B vitamin compound, as not only do I want the added B12 , but also the relatively high levels of Tyramine in Brewer's Yeast could potentially cause a hyper-tensive crisis in one who has to take M.A.O.I medication throughout the day.