Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Nadz1lla on March 05, 2011, 12:31:37 AM

Title: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 05, 2011, 12:31:37 AM
If I ever find out who "experimented" with the wiring in the back of my 7 string before I bought it, I am going to shove my primed soldering iron up their bottom!

Oh yes, another tech question from the eternal n00b...    :lol:

Pick-up wiring: is there a certain type of wire I need to be using? I have no idea if they are graded on different resistances etc. The wires coming from the pick-ups themselves seem ok, and look as though they still have enough play in them to comfortably get them connected up etc, I just need to know about ground wire, and any other bits of wire that connect the various gubbins in the control cavity.

I have my Seymour Duncan schematic armed and ready, I just need to pop down to Maplin or somewhere that sells wire and get myself a few bits. Whoever did the work on the pick-ups last just absolutely mutilated the wiring and left no excess for when bits fray off and you need to trim down the plastic. Added to that, there are parts where they have soldered or twisted two or three lengths together to form one piece, it's sheer insanity!  :x
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: 1reeper on March 07, 2011, 03:54:35 AM
Not really, standard copper wire will work, braided wire is (IMO) infinitely more preferable to solid wire.  Ground wire can be anything.  I use whatever's on hand.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 07, 2011, 11:04:40 AM
Added to that, there are parts where they have soldered or twisted two or three lengths together to form one piece, it's sheer insanity!  :x

The experts may take a different view on this, but when I'm soldering earths to the back of a pot, I tend to do this (within reason).  The problem with doing them one at a time is that I tend to heat up the pot more than I'm comfortable with.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: JacksonRR on March 07, 2011, 03:48:32 PM
I am going to shove my primed soldering iron up their bottom!

 :lol:

Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 07, 2011, 05:16:38 PM
Cheers guys, hehe. I actually experimented with bits of PSU wire I had floating around the place and they did the job, but now I am certain that there is something wrong with either the pots or the switch. Doubt it's the pick-ups themselves....unless pups CAN die?
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 07, 2011, 05:23:08 PM
Pups can die, but if there's been a muppet at the electrics, this is far more likely.

Sometimes, just rewiring the whole thing can be easier than fixing it.  You can make yourself a little cardboard template of the holes in the guitar and then you can solder away to your hearts content without dropping solder on the guitar.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Philly Q on March 07, 2011, 06:11:52 PM
Sometimes, just rewiring the whole thing can be easier than fixing it.  You can make yourself a little cardboard template of the holes in the guitar and then you can solder away to your hearts content without dropping solder on the guitar.

^ Good advice.  Do as much as possible away from the guitar!
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 07, 2011, 06:19:07 PM
I need to experiment with which wires have been soldered to which parts of the guitar etc. Is it likely I could electrocute myself if I wire something wrong, or is it just a case of "the pups will either work, or they won't" with no danger of death to myself?

The reason I ask is that, from the Seymour Duncan diagram I have, the bare wire should go to the grounding points, and the black wire should go to components. Now, whoever has gone in there before me has used the black wire to go to ground and the bare wire to attach the components....but they have neatly trimmed the excess black wire off, so I will need to extend it with more cut-offs etc.  >_< 

The black wire comes out of the pup-holes separately to the main flex which contains the green, white, red and bare parts.

This is just confusing, hah!
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Frank on March 07, 2011, 06:43:02 PM
Is it likely I could electrocute myself if I wire something wrong

You only stand a chance of getting an electric shock if there's a problem with your amp that causes the chassis or the input jack to go live. As long as your amp is electrically sound you're not in any danger.

Off topis a bit but on that subject, how many people here do regular safety checks on mains plugs and leads? It's worth getting into the habit of checking for bare wires, possible shorts, loosely wired mains plugs and so on at least every few months.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 07, 2011, 06:52:13 PM
I visually check things when I plug them in, but that's because I have a baby that likes to play with anything he's not supposed to.

No real chance of killing yourself (unless, like Frank says, you're amps shot), the worst thing that will happen is that you make a loud noise. 

Make sure that if you're stripping the electrics out, you cut everything in there to leave as much wire as possible.  Trace the pups and cut the earths and signal cable right next to the pot.  You can always clean it up after.  The same goes for the earth wire going to the bridge as it can be a right pain in the arse putting a new one of those in.  The problem is that on TOM guitars you (generally) have to pull out the bridge studs.  On trem guitars you have to attach it to the trem and they don't like to stick to solder.

Overall the worrying about it is far worse than actually rewiring it.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 07, 2011, 08:30:36 PM
Sweet, cheers chaps! I just invested in some helping hands and a few other soldering related gubbins. Pretty sure the Mrs won't like me burning holes in the carpet if the darn thing rolls off my makeshift soldering mat, hah! When that arrives I'm going to get to grips with it all properly and find out what's what.

Will keep y'all updated on my pick-up woes.   :lol:
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: ToneMonkey on March 07, 2011, 10:47:47 PM
I just do mine on a chopping board.

Have fun.  Soldering is a bit of an art, so read up on technique and practice a little first.  Don't scrimp on tinning the wires either  :D
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 03:10:10 AM
Hey all,

well, just installed my PK and... ummm, it's too quiet. Is there a possibility the pots can get damaged from soldering iron heat? I changed the jack, pots etc, so everything is new. I even tried (and will probably keep it this way) just pup and volume combo, have ripped out the old neck pup, switch and tone pot and am just using the bridge pup "vanilla" (gunslinger style)

There is just hardly any output at all.  :?

It's coupled with a CTS (BKP) 550k vol pot.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:19:15 AM
try wiring directly to the output jack see if that solves your problem
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:19:42 AM
also how have you wired it?

You may have accidentally split the coil off and be using that instead of the hot (red wire)
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 12:07:24 PM
Nah, green and white taped off, black and bare to pot cover, red to vol.  :?

If I just chucked the red wire straight to the jack, I'd get pure, unadulterated pick-up, right?
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 01:32:50 PM
yeah you would.

Also the red if to the pot should be going to the first tag of the pot
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 01:55:17 PM
Yeah I got it working by going straight to the jack, love the sound! really pleased with the PK, but NOT my guitar. I've found that it really is time for an upgrade, which SUCKS because that means I have to save for two years to get one.  :(

I'm going to go custom though, do it properly. Now that I have the PK, I'll be ordering a 7 string from Daemoness and give Dylan the pup to slap in the bridge. I'll order a CS for the neck, methinks.

I tightened the strings a half step higher than they should to see if I could squeeze a little more string tension out of them, but they were like steel girders and weren't really giving me that nice clean sound you get from a proper 27" scale axe.

Oh man...I started saving a few months ago and have managed to scr@pe £30 so far, this is going to be a long haul... also must remember to cut up and burn my credit cards, I have used them way too much recently and I'm almost as badly off as I was 4 months ago now.

I HATE HAVING EXPENSIVE HOBBIES!!! If only I liked swimming or something.  :x :x :x
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 02:22:47 PM
Guitar is far too expensive of a hobby.

Glad you have it working

have you tried DR tite fits? they have more tension than normal strings but still come in normal guages and also inbetween ones like 10.5 etc
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 05:02:25 PM
I haven't yet, but I am a bit reluctant to try throwing any more money at this lump of cr@p, even just strings. The low F# alone was £4. I tried several tunings, even cranking them until I was too afraid to put my face near the strings, hehe. No worky. Longer scale needed.  :?
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 07:14:28 PM
What guitar is it?

surely it cant be that bad?
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 11:01:35 PM
Jackson DR7T. 25" scale, 22(!) frets. I think alder body, quilt maple top and a bolt-on neck. Currently looking at an Agile 627 pro with string-thru body fixed bridge, looks like what I need.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:11:02 PM
I think agile currently have some B stock thats reduced due to minor blemishes etc in the 7 string range

there was 3 or 4 when i looked a couple of days back

Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 11:24:55 PM
They have a b-stock section?!?!!?! Linky?  :o
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:25:47 PM
they were just in with the normal 7's ill find them
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:27:00 PM
theres just the one left now

$499

but its not the right scale length

http://www.rondomusic.com/product4057.html
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
hmm it isn't even discounted...
how odd
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 11:28:49 PM
Ah I found one with a floyd... trying to keep away from floyds, nowt but trouble, haha!

Thanks though dude, never knew they had a b-stock part. That site could do with a better designer too, really.

For my 6, I might try this one: http://www.rondomusic.com/product3631.html and if I like it get the 7 string version later.
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Transcend on March 19, 2011, 11:29:49 PM
i agree with you entirely on that.

I get guitars with Floyds have a few months where i do mindless whammy harmonics then block it off forever after that
Title: Re: Schnazzemfrazzemrazzem....*grumbles*
Post by: Nadz1lla on March 19, 2011, 11:31:35 PM
Haha! Yeah, me too! I have trem-stoppers from floydupgrades.com on both my floyd axes.