Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: JJretroTONEGOD on March 20, 2011, 02:31:51 PM
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I'm currently thinking of building a customised PC as I'm pretty good with computers, it seems like the best option and cheapest.....
The main reason is that the PC I have has a low but audible ambient noise level, I would like to be able to record an acoustic guitar in the same room with but without any computer noise so it's as close to silence as possible (not that it's terrible how it is). I've already sorted most of the acoustical problems out within the room, killing all the first reflection points and using bass trapping, but as a result this exaggetes the computer noise even more!
thinking of starting my project with this case: http://www.paqt.co.uk/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2
has anyone here built their own PC and if so what was your experiences? any tips?
regards
Ben
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Sort of, I put some of mine together then my computer techy mate did the rest! The only thing I have trouble with is the psu, it has too many wires and I made a bit of a mess with it initially! It's pretty easy to do most of it though, everyone I know who has built one described it as big lego :lol:
Thinking about building myself up a nice little small form factor (but powerful) pc some time. I imagine the psu wiring on that will be even fiddlier though!
My only advice is don't get an Antec 900 case as they're SO noisy, but looks like you already have the case sorted :)
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Fan noise is a right royal pain in the arse. Zalman CPU coolers are they way forward, then a low-noise PSU, graphics card cooler and case fans. It gets hideously expensive and while it reduces fan noise it doesn't completely eradicate it and you may end up having to put the PC in a soundproofed box ... then the soundproof box needs an air inlet and you're back to trading off heat dispersal against acceptable noise.
Easy solution - phone someone like Digital Village and throw money at them.
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I built all my PC's. In fact, my music computer was originally the best parts of 3 broken PC's chucked together and held up with gaffer tape!
My only bit of advice (as you said you know about computers) is ALWAYS wear an anti-static band, even if you don't plan on putting anything into the case just yet. I mean when handling new components and getting them out of their anti-static wrappings etc. Also, NEVER touch anywhere but the sides of the motherboard / ram / CPU / PCI cards.
Oh and another thing, try not to let any of the fans move around when the computer is off. They generate their own charge when they aren't powered if they are spun with your fingers or other movement, and without the power regulation of the PSU, you can easily short other components by building up static charge in the fans.
Apart from the physical side of building PC's with all the precautions you should take etc, building one is usually a painless affair. The only thing I curse every time I have to do it is putting the damn CPU heat-sink fan on. No matter what system the thing uses for coupling it to the motherboard or chipset, it's always bloody difficult. They are by far the most awkward, stupid, lamely designed parts of the computer system to install and are the bane of my entire computer building history. The only advice I can offer here is have a punch-bag set up nearby. It might save you from having to buy a new computer and a new pane of glass for the window you just threw it out of. :x :x :x
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Yeah, I've been building my own PCs from parts for awhile now. As far as cutting down on noise I find it's best to stop it at the source instead of relying on dampening material.
Fanless power supplies can be had at decent prices. Look into them.
Fan noise can be cut down by using high-quality fans and running them on a lower power. Very cheap fan controls can be had and easily installed.
Hard drives are going to be your other issue. SSDs are always going to be the silent option, but you can still obtain very very quiet operation with a standard or a hybrid drive by ditching the hard mounts and using nylon stretchy cable or zip ties to decouple the drive from the PC enclosure. This is very cheap. Here is a pic of the zip tie method, but I found the nylon to work better. This will keep the vibrations from being amplified by the enclosure.
(http://www.overclockers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31345&stc=1&d=1088549023)
Good luck.
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ALWAYS wear an anti-static band
I've only ever zapped one motherboard with static. After that I bought an antistat band and used it every time.
£75 gone literally in a flash is a depressing prospect.
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Yes, I built one... about 8 years ago now. And before that, I helped somebody else build theirs.
It's not too hard as long as you take the right precautions. An anti-static band is a good thing.
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thanks for the great feedback guys, it's a great help ; )
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What size fans have you got? Bigger the fan the lower pitch the whine, I would only look at cases with at least 120mm fans
When I upgraded I kept the case but replaced the fans with 25dba ones and the difference was huge!!! I also got a nice big heatsink with a 92mm fan for the CPU (120mm one's were too big, wouldn't fit :( )
I'm presuming a better quality PSU will have a quieter fan too, I know some come with speed controls for the fan
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What size fans have you got? Bigger the fan the lower pitch the whine,
Also more airflow when ran on a reduced voltage.
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What size fans have you got? Bigger the fan the lower pitch the whine, I would only look at cases with at least 120mm fans
When I upgraded I kept the case but replaced the fans with 25dba ones and the difference was huge!!! I also got a nice big heatsink with a 92mm fan for the CPU (120mm one's were too big, wouldn't fit :( )
I'm presuming a better quality PSU will have a quieter fan too, I know some come with speed controls for the fan
the paq cases have 3x 120mm fans running at 5v instead of 12v to reduce noise as well as acoustic foam surrounding the case, the paq case I'm getting also would come with an uber quiet PSU, all part of the price, you can get it without the PSU as well but the one that comes with it looks unbeatable...
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I think one of my mates said his computer was a liquid cooled , don't know if looking down that route would be a good idea. I know nothing about computers, but that sounds a) like a bad idea, and b) expensive
Using my knowledge of other areas, could you use something like a squirell (or other quiet type) fan as a stand alone unit and then use acoustic ducting to link it to the computers normal fan inlets? Just a thought
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Liquid cooling is very tricky to install and the pumps can be noisy. My last housemate tried to put liquid cooling in his gaming machine, ended up with a motherboard soaked in water before giving up and binning it. Never been tempted to try it myself after watching him struggle and rage for hours trying to make it work.
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What size fans have you got? Bigger the fan the lower pitch the whine, I would only look at cases with at least 120mm fans
When I upgraded I kept the case but replaced the fans with 25dba ones and the difference was huge!!! I also got a nice big heatsink with a 92mm fan for the CPU (120mm one's were too big, wouldn't fit :( )
I'm presuming a better quality PSU will have a quieter fan too, I know some come with speed controls for the fan
the paq cases have 3x 120mm fans running at 5v instead of 12v to reduce noise as well as acoustic foam surrounding the case, the paq case I'm getting also would come with an uber quiet PSU, all part of the price, you can get it without the PSU as well but the one that comes with it looks unbeatable...
I don't think you can do much better than that for air cooling, just looked at the link again and noticed it's a seasonic PSU. I used have a list grading all the brands and series of PSU and off top of my head I think the seasonics did pretty good on it
One slight concern is if you plan to do any gaming on your build, as a serious high end machine will probably need a few more watts
Just had a quick search and seasonic do fanless PSUs now, but the v12 rail in it looks a bit weak and more aimed at media centre computers
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http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&prod=32
The Fractal Design R2 Define case is among the most silent and best cases. They have other fine products as well.
Alternatively, NZXT and Coolermaster make some good silent ones.
Get a separate PSU, that way you can get a good one.
Cooler Master, Be Quiet and the NZXT Hale are some good ones. Depending on your system you might need less than 430 Watts. A modular one would be nice, but as long as it has an 80+ efficiency it should be fine.
Lastly, there are many sources of noise. Find the most obnoxious one and work from there. The CPU cooler and the graphics card can be big noisemakers.
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http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&prod=32
The Fractal Design R2 Define case is among the most silent and best cases. They have other fine products as well.
Alternatively, NZXT and Coolermaster make some good silent ones.
Get a separate PSU, that way you can get a good one.
Cooler Master, Be Quiet and the NZXT Hale are some good ones. Depending on your system you might need less than 430 Watts. A modular one would be nice, but as long as it has an 80+ efficiency it should be fine.
Lastly, there are many sources of noise. Find the most obnoxious one and work from there. The CPU cooler and the graphics card can be big noisemakers.
do you know why you need a higher watt power supply, for instance why would a 1000watt be better than 450, is it better? this is a bit of a grey area
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Depends on how many power-hungry PCI cards you are putting in. If you are running a basic motherboard with onboard graphics and sound, maybe one PCI card, then you'll be fine with a lower wattage PSU.
If you are running a pro gaming rig with two high-power GPU's in SLi mode, several large HDD, a power-hungry Soundcard and several other PCI cards, then you'd need a higher output PSU. Just try to add up the total wattage of what you'll be putting in and then allow a little more for possible future expansion (and so that the curren set-up runs with a bit of a power buffer too, just in case).
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If you tell us the stuff you intend to have in your PC I could give you a rough area.
Typically, if you don't have a six or eight core CPU and only one graphics cards and nothing too extravagant, I don't see you needing more than 500, at max 600 Watts.
Wattage higher than 600 Watt is needed mostly if you are running more than one graphics card at a time.
If you have a PSU much higher than what you need it will not run too efficiently and will consume more energy than needed.
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If you tell us the stuff you intend to have in your PC I could give you a rough area.
Typically, if you don't have a six or eight core CPU and only one graphics cards and nothing too extravagant, I don't see you needing more than 500, at max 600 Watts.
Wattage higher than 600 Watt is needed mostly if you are running more than one graphics card at a time.
If you have a PSU much higher than what you need it will not run too efficiently and will consume more energy than needed.
I was thinking of an octocore processor, 8gb ram ddr3, already got an M-Audio 192 card, going to get a higher end graphics card with 1gig memory ddr3 style also with HD for blueray and gaming, 3x hard disks, 1x blueray, 1xDVD player, basically it's going to be a monster lol. I'm open to suggestions though as I know certain parts are not compatible with each other....
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Been building my own and family's/friends' machines for nearly 15 years now. Can't say I've used a PAQ case before but I wish I had on my most recent build. Decided to go for a Lian Li case, but it just turns out they're really expensive and not especially good for either temperature or noise. A machine I built for work a few years back used the Antec P180 (or P182, I forget now...), which turned out to be surprisingly quiet. You'll struggle to get a decent graphics card (ie good for modern 3D games) in a near-noiseless system, but a solid motherboard/CPU/PSU combination can be made near silent quite easily. That PAQ case you linked to looks reasonable to me for a mid-ranged system.
Roo
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430w isn't going to be enough for that, I have a 650w corsair PSU (built by seasonic, single v12 rail, with temp controlled 120mm fan) to power a quad core CPU, 4gb DDR2 and high end (in it's day) gfx card
I didn't even know the octocores were out yet but I'd speculate you would need a more powerful PSU than mine, there is a way to work it out but I can't remember how :(
Getting overly technical but I'd be on the look out for good brand PSUs with a single V12 rail with lots of amps on the V12 rail, wattage is focused on too much
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Roo gfx card fans tend to be temp controlled too now, at least mine is and only time I hear it is on boot
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Been building my own and family's/friends' machines for nearly 15 years now. Can't say I've used a PAQ case before but I wish I had on my most recent build. Decided to go for a Lian Li case, but it just turns out they're really expensive and not especially good for either temperature or noise. A machine I built for work a few years back used the Antec P180 (or P182, I forget now...), which turned out to be surprisingly quiet. You'll struggle to get a decent graphics card (ie good for modern 3D games) in a near-noiseless system, but a solid motherboard/CPU/PSU combination can be made near silent quite easily. That PAQ case you linked to looks reasonable to me for a mid-ranged system.
Roo
indeed, the paq case should dampen any internal noise, I get the impression it's that good that you could have a graphics card making noise and still hear nothing? there is a really positive review of the case in soundonsound magazine, where they say it's that quiet they couldn't even tell when it was switched on! I could live without having a high end graphics card though, not too fussed about playing the latest games
this is quite old now but a usefull article I found...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb07/articles/pcmusician_0207.htm (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb07/articles/pcmusician_0207.htm)
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That will be about a 500-600Watt PSU.
Sound damping does not remove sound, it changes the frequency somewhat. Furthermore, internal temperature will increase in the case - there are less ways the hot air can get out - and that will cause the CPU and GPU coolers to run faster - and more significantly louder! 8-core sounds like a I7 - that CPU will generate a lot of heat and need a strong CPU cooler (I only have an AMD quadcore for comparison).
It's a bit of a difficult situation, really. You might be better off not getting an airtight, super-padded case, but a larger, more open tower enclosure with a fan controller, to adjust them to your needs.
For example my case is rather open so I can turn down the case fans and the internal fans run a lot more quiet because there simply is more air inside.
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It's a bit of a difficult situation, really. You might be better off not getting an airtight, super-padded case, but a larger, more open tower enclosure with a fan controller, to adjust them to your needs.
For example my case is rather open so I can turn down the case fans and the internal fans run a lot more quiet because there simply is more air inside.
Agreed. I tried to do the soundproofing material you can buy with a real closed off tower case I had. Gave up and threw the whole mess in a 4U rack chassis with two big fans in the front. Basically a wind tunnel with a computer inside. Turned out much better, though I have been eyeballing fanless PSUs for that extra bit. I have a small cheap manual fan controller taking up one of the front slots and I turned that just past the threshold of getting the fans to spin. That was $9. Combining good, quiet airflow with some of the other techniques mentioned here will certainly get you where you want to be. Of course, you can do like my old guitarist and just stick the case in your closet, running cords under the door and to the desk.
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I've built all mine. It's not too difficult really. Just take your time and wear that wrist strap!
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A wrist wrap is a bit over the top if you ask me.... I've never used one.
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I now have more of a clearer idea of what components I'm putting in...
PSU:
• Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 800w
MOTHERBOARD:
• MSI Big Bang X Power
• Asus (ROG) rampage III gene
• Gigabyte X58-USB3
PROCESSOR:
• Intel core i7 2600K
• Intel core i5 2600K
• Intel core i7 960
• Intel core i5 760
• AMD phenom II x6 1055T
CPU FAN:
• Noctura NH-D14
• Gelid Tranquillo
• Spire Thermax eclipse II
MEMORY (RAM):
• OCZ platinum DDR3 1600MHz
• Corsair XMS3 6GB DDR3
INTERNAL HDs:
• 3 x 1TB
GRAPHICS CARD:
• MSI GTX460 Hawk 1GB
I still need to choose out of all this, but it's getting closer to a final plan
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I had a quick look and if you want a good CPU cooler for half the price the Arctic Cooling Freezer Xtreme Rev.2 looks on par with the 120mm Nocturas, as I said only quick look so might be a benchmark tests of the Noctura NH-D14. I use the older Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 92mm fan one that runs a quad core Q9400 at 30C idle
What brand hard drives you getting? I always go for 5 year warranty western digitals but the seagates are probably quieter, I've avoided maxlor since they got bought out incase they went down hill (no idea if they actually have)
When I upgraded 2 year ago AMDs were on par with Intel for performance and price (I think) but the Intels ran cooler
That coolermaster will probably run anything!!! It's got a single V12 rail with 98 amps!!!(make that 65 amps cos retailers site has it wrong!) For perceptive my corsair 650w has 52 amps on the V12, I found the box and it has a graph for the fan speed which stays below 22dba until it has 375w of load
Just found this too for working out power needs (says I only needed 400watts, but then I maxed capacitor aging and it went up to 550W so I guess it'll survive my next upgrade :D) http://www.coolermaster.outervision.com/PSUEngine
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don't forget to check that the mobos support the cpus too
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I had a quick look and if you want a good CPU cooler for half the price the Arctic Cooling Freezer Xtreme Rev.2 looks on par with the 120mm Nocturas, as I said only quick look so might be a benchmark tests of the Noctura NH-D14. I use the older Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 92mm fan one that runs a quad core Q9400 at 30C idle
What brand hard drives you getting? I always go for 5 year warranty western digitals but the seagates are probably quieter, I've avoided maxlor since they got bought out incase they went down hill (no idea if they actually have)
When I upgraded 2 year ago AMDs were on par with Intel for performance and price (I think) but the Intels ran cooler
That coolermaster will probably run anything!!! It's got a single V12 rail with 98 amps!!!(make that 65 amps cos retailers site has it wrong!) For perceptive my corsair 650w has 52 amps on the V12, I found the box and it has a graph for the fan speed which stays below 22dba until it has 375w of load
Just found this too for working out power needs (says I only needed 400watts, but then I maxed capacitor aging and it went up to 550W so I guess it'll survive my next upgrade :D) http://www.coolermaster.outervision.com/PSUEngine
the HDs will most likely be this one: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/ss1tb-samsung-hd103sj-spinpoint-f3-sata-3gb-s-7200rpm-32mb-cache-89-ms-ncq-oem (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/ss1tb-samsung-hd103sj-spinpoint-f3-sata-3gb-s-7200rpm-32mb-cache-89-ms-ncq-oem)
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3 year warranty on that I believe, just so you know third generation 25nm intel 320 series of SSD drives are out any time now, I'm planning on getting one the 40Gb one for running windows/appz off. Then give it another few years and I'll get a bigger one when they get cheap.
If Roo reads this he'll probably rave on about his until the cows come home. *poke!*
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3 year warranty on that I believe, just so you know third generation 25nm intel 320 series of SSD drives are out any time now, I'm planning on getting one the 40Gb one for running windows/appz off. Then give it another few years and I'll get a bigger one when they get cheap.
If Roo reads this he'll probably rave on about his until the cows come home. *poke!*
SSDs are amazing, my current PC takes 5-10 minutes to load up! anything faster than that would be a bonus, the paq case is something I'm now going off, just because you can't get it without the 430 power supply, but I'll need 800watts not only that, there's only certain things that fit inside...it has its limits, BUT it's the quietest, torn between choosing the PAQ and the Corsair 700D case
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Wow that's a lot of money for a case, says me who spent £160 on one 8 years ago and now I can only just fit everything in it and the power button has a life of it's own so I disconnected it and use the reset switch in it's place
How do either case make the PC more quiet? If it's just fans you could replace the fans on another well made case, I found the 120mm versions of the quiet fans I use and they are 20dba (mine are 80mm 15dba, not 25dba I mentioned before but pitch will be higher compared to bigger ones.) Could use rubber washers on fans and acoustic foam if needed
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Agree about SSDs! I got an intel 80GB SSD about a year and a half ago (I think). It's absolutely superb! Really makes things snappy, I would recommend ANYONE building a new machine to seriously consider whether you can work one into the budget, they make a HUGE difference to system performance :)
Roo
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Wow that's a lot of money for a case, says me who spent £160 on one 8 years ago and now I can only just fit everything in it and the power button has a life of it's own so I disconnected it and use the reset switch in it's place
How do either case make the PC more quiet? If it's just fans you could replace the fans on another well made case, I found the 120mm versions of the quiet fans I use and they are 20dba (mine are 80mm 15dba, not 25dba I mentioned before but pitch will be higher compared to bigger ones.) Could use rubber washers on fans and acoustic foam if needed
yes by using very large fans eg 180mm or 200mm apparently the bigger they are the less noise they make, plus you can also buy acoustic deadening kits if you really need to, but if I get it just right and get everything quiet in the first place there will be no need to get the acoustic foam ie the correct fans and plentyof them, quite excited about starting the project now, but it's been a lot of research, it should hopefully all pay off, will be posting pics too
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Yes and now. Really large fans are a bit hit and miss. If they are large and slow, there's no point in having them, the air pressure is really low (never believe the CFM ratings manufacturers put on them).
I'd really rather recommend getting stronger fans with lots of air pressure and using a fan controller to dial them down.
I use an NXZT Sentry 2 and it works very nice, plus it looks cool.
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I'd really rather recommend getting stronger fans with lots of air pressure and using a fan controller to dial them down.
Surely that's a bit backwards logic as a quiet fan I would assume has an optimal fin design since it's running at maximum
I also could not be arsed to manually alter the fan speed every time
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If they're on the appropriate PWM header of your motherboard, you don't need to.
Incidentally, I use a Prolimatech Megahalems CPU cooler coupled with an Apache (or perhaps 2...) 120mm fans. I never hear the CPU. The graphics card is quite noisy, but I don't mind when I'm playing games. I wouldn't recommend a Lian Li case (I have one), it's over-priced, not quiet and not particularly great for cooling either. My old Chieftec Dragon case was superb, but rather out-dated and tired. I've built into a lot of cases, and probably my favourite of recent times was an Antec P180. It was just abotu big enough for a high end rig, almost completely silent, and kept things moderately cool. That rig wasn't for overclocking or gaming, but did require large amounts of CPU power for the work done on it.
Almost no manufacturers provide accurate information about how quiet their cases are (it's not just the fans, JDC, although undoubtedly quiet fans help matters!). This Lian Li I have was marketed as quiet, and it's pretty poor, in my opinion based on very similar (and in one case identical) specced systems being built in other cases. Yes, it's aluminium, but that's a gimmick in most cases - steel works just as well, and yes it does look quite good (less of a gimmick to some), but really that's the only positive thing I can come up with.
I digress...