Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: gwEm on March 28, 2011, 10:11:39 AM
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all this talk recently of LSD inspired Gibson models:
(http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/42074_l.jpg)
ugly as hell, but well, it was cheap ;) lets see what its like when it arrives. i have plans to customise it with some white electrical tape, a drill, a dremel, some danish oil and a butchered set of Dirty Fingers... all things I have in my drawers of spares.
edit: maybe it gets a set of pickup rings if i am generous ;)
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Take out the middle pickup and it'll be fixed!
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Take out the middle pickup and it'll be fixed!
yeah, that was my first reaction, and what i'll probably do... but in between i was kind of tempted to do a kramer nightswan kind of thing and remove the neck. might give more bite for solos (but look weird)
edit: ha, just realised this in the wrong section - no matter ;)
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I like the look of the middle pickup on it, normally wouldn't but it creates a slightly angled line from the fretboard to the tail piece which compliments the lines of the V body and top of the scratch plate
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Take out the middle pickup and it'll be fixed!
+1
A middle pickup adds little in tone variation. It mostly just gets in the way of your picking.
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Do an Yngwie and put 3 single coils on it
Then it'd be a cross between your two fave guitars
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I think abomination is a strong word - its just a Vee with an extra 'bucker in the middle, looks great.
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I think abomination is a strong word - its just a Vee with an extra 'bucker in the middle, looks great.
its funny, you, JDC and my girlfriend like the extra humbucker. i think it spoils the classic V look. am also unsure about that rotary switch.
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Do an Yngwie and put 3 single coils on it
Then it'd be a cross between your two fave guitars
funny you should say that jonathan! the plan is definitely to make it more strat-like. i've thought alot about this, as I'm sure you can imagine. the single coils in that strat-V of his surely sound good, but I don't like the look of them particularly:
(http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~shane/rockguitarworld/yngwie/images/flyingv.jpg)
(especially not with the way he has the controls and jacks)
in my opinion double humbuckers look best in Vs. i thought about the H-S setup in the Jackson Wolf Hoffmann signature, since that would be ideal sound wise, but I'm not convinced on the look still:
(http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/sites/default/files/accept_-_wolf_hoffmann_3.jpg)
On the other hand, his HSS Hamer, i think, looks totally fine:
(http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/sites/default/files/images/mygear/WHVfull&bod.jpg)
would it work with black pickups in an SSS set up - with no angle on the bridge - hard to say.
now, the experiment i did on the Johnny Winter V with a parallel wound neck was entirely successful - the neck position is now nice, bright and stratty - perfect for live use. i have a spare set of dirty fingers that i might swap with the jury rigged set in the Johnny Winter, or i might modified the spare set.
then there is the controls, since i do like some uli jon roth violining effects as you know! but the concern again is spoiling the classic look. i think it would be fine on a rear-routed V though, but not sure about one with a 60s type scratchplate. i saw this picture of Wolf Hoffmann from the late 80s:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4269764541_ee161c6641.jpg)
hes modified his V with a single volume control. even if the volume control is in the wrong place, it does work with the look. i think that is something i might have to 'suck and see'.
any thoughts anyone?
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I don't think it's an abomination, although the finish is horrible. I remember there was an SG with the same layout:
(http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/42072_l.jpg)
If the V body was a bit deeper, I'd say ditch the rotary switch and add a five-way.
But if you really want a Strat-V, surely James Byrd's Super Avianti is the only answer! :P
(http://www.jedistar.com/images/byrd_guitar.jpg)
http://www.byrdguitars.com/index4.htm (http://www.byrdguitars.com/index4.htm)
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I do like those Bryd ones, but still wish it looked a little more V than strat.
Funnily enough I do think the faded 3 pickup SG works a little better lookwise than its V cousin. From what I can tell on the web the 'fading' on the finish varies alot from guitar to guitar, some look just like a normal white V with thinner paint, others look... less good ;) I'll have to see how my one looks when it arrives.
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i like the Yngwie V, even the strat style jack socket makes sense. if you did that, you'd basically have your own interpretation of Paul Gilbert's Iceman. well, except that Yngwie did it first...
i don't think it's an abomination either, although i do greatly dislike rotary switches.
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Take out the middle pickup and it'll be fixed!
+1
And again. Middle pickup out and it'll look crackin'.
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middle AND neck out :) then its fixed :)
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Oh my, Gwem. I didn't know such a thing existed. Is it weird to want to marry a guitar? I'm diggin the HS setup on that Jackson a lot.
(http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/sites/default/files/WHJackson2.png)
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I think it looks great! For the middle pick up haters, how about a white bucker set really low so it doesn't get in the way?
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Don't usually like 3 humbucker guitars, but this looks alright. I came here expecting a Firebird X or something from the title.
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MQ in the middle could be good.... but then you'd also need covers for the neck and bridge humbuckers or it would look weird.
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I do like the look of three-pickup Gibsons, but the string pull off three humbuckers is gonna kill the natural sustain. The middle humbucker never sounds very good anyway, take it out now or I shall call a constable.
MQ neck, riff raff bridge - done 8)
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I do like the look of three-pickup Gibsons, but the string pull off three humbuckers is gonna kill the natural sustain. The middle humbucker never sounds very good anyway, take it out now or I shall call a constable.
MQ neck, riff raff bridge - done 8)
you have taste HTH ;)
don't worry - the middle humbucker is going..
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I understand the objections to the middle pickup, but if you go HH it'll be "just another V"..... I hope to see at least one single-coil on there when it's done! :P
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I understand the objections to the middle pickup, but if you go HH it'll be "just another V"..... I hope to see at least one single-coil on there when it's done! :P
well, thats a possibility - or maybe a mini-hb.
she should arrive monday.
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It's funny, when I saw the first post a few days ago, I just couldn't figure out what the "abomination" part was... yeah it had three pickups, but I didn't realise that's what you meant... I was looking at the pic to see if the dimensions were odd or something... :lol:
Personally (although I've never tried one), I can't see much use for a middle humbucker, but I some folks seem to like it so I've got nothing against it.
On the looks, one thing I learnt about pickups years ago (and this might just about apply to a middle pickup) - I had a Hot Rails in the bridge of my gigging strat. I needed it for the sound in that band but I absolutely HATED what it looked like. I agonised over what to do, I would have called it an abomination at the time. Then one day, sat round the table after a gig cleaning the guitar in question, a girlfriend said "what are you on about?" and I explained my dilemma. She went "but we can't even see it, your hand covers it most of the time, besides we're watching you, not the guitar..." ... and then a guitarist at the table, who was much into gear, came to see us a fair bit, and was always asking me stuff, woke up and went "Hey! Have you got a hotrails there? Cool! Never noticed it... when did you do that?" :roll:
It's a bit like the girl with the "huge" spot she's worried about, and we never noticed it cos we were concentrating on something else... and even after she's pointed it out we'd need a magnifying glass to see it.
Go for sound and utility first, obviously pay attention to looks, it affects how you feel about it... but really it's only us anoraks who spot some of this stuff :lol:
I quite like the look of that Yngwie thing - but I'd be continually trying to get it to sound/respond like a strat... so'd there'd be no point in me doing it, might as well pick up a strat instead!
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out - you always seem to end up doing something tasteful and usable when you start hacking :D
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It'll be interesting to see how this turns out - you always seem to end up doing something tasteful and usable when you start hacking :D
yeah, i love the modifications i guess :)
Vs naturally have quite a loose sound and feel i think, which is part of the attraction of the model, but difficult to put in the context of the music i make - which absolutely needs to sit in the mix very precisely. (i'm not saying like surgically tight br00tals, i'm more of a classic metal man as you know - vintage style will do me fine)
when i first got into strats, i sort of believed the 25.5" scale length was what gave the tightness, and i think thats partly true, but not the only thing - the wood choice and single coils clearly have a massive effect too.
i got a V - the V90, which had a maple neck and also the 25.5" scale - it looks great and sounds tight as hell. the problem with the V90 is its a bit too nice take out for a show. also i'd like it to have a neck pickup and be white. but more or less its a very special instrument. i think about playing it every show, but its a bit too nice you know..
with the mahogany strat i was looking to bring some of the warmth back into the sound, and it was still tight sounding, but more rich and easier to work with. no doubt its my idea of the perfect strat sound. comparing it to my tele-strat is interesting. i thought the wimpy strat bridge pickup caused the wimpy strat bridge sound - but its not quite true. i'd say the sultan in the mahogany strat sounds maybe even a touch more full than the blackguard in the tele-strat. though probably the baseplate on the sultans makes a difference.
when i started playing the yamaha a few weeks back i noticed how much i was really missing the loose feeling 24 3/4" scale length. the yamaha has a maple neck and alder body, and i think the maple neck was giving it a tighter sound. strange since i was playing Vs and the Wez firebird in parallel with all these, but the yamaha really reminded me of what i liked about the slightly shorter scale. whacking in some dimarzio strat pickups, the perfect weight balance of the instrument has given what i think is the most practical gigging guitar i have so far. it always cuts through the mix live - and its controllable, volume and tonewise, with little drama.
but, well its not a white V ;) i'm a bit attached to my other Vs, so I needed something cheap to hack around with. we'll see how it goes - i'm not wedded to anything yet - except a strat positioned volume control and removing the middle pickup.
anyway - whats all this post say? tone is important, its affected by lots of things and is unpredictable ;) or more like i don't know exactly what i'm talking about, but i'm learning on the job :D the only think i do know that is my favourite is an ebony fingerboard.. but i learnt that one early on.
V-wise, the Johnny Winter is still my favourite, and with the pickup mod, and some work Jonathan did on it its still my number one!
well, i'm sure my tastes will change again soon, but i will say i never found a series wired neck humbucker that cut through my mix live.
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when i first got into strats, i sort of believed the 25.5" scale length was what gave the tightness
Thats an interesting point. All things being equal, what tonal effect does changing the scale length have (I'm talking the difference between Gibson and Fender scale lengths here, not baritones) ????
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Middle pickups can work well, and give you a host of new sounds if done right.
Personally i seldom need or use them, but i do have a les paul custom with 3 in. I have coil split on the neck and bridge pickup and a master volume on the middle so i can blend in a middle humbucker into both or either of the other spit or unsplit humbuckers.
Always seems to sound a bit latin for some reason.
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when i first got into strats, i sort of believed the 25.5" scale length was what gave the tightness
Thats an interesting point. All things being equal, what tonal effect does changing the scale length have (I'm talking the difference between Gibson and Fender scale lengths here, not baritones) ????
Ask Johnny Mac - the Lion(LP) I made him with the MIDI was 25.5" scale - the same as his Charvel
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/johnny-mac-lion.jpg)
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MQ neck, riff raff bridge - done 8)
+1
That's what I have in my V and it's a great combo.
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its here. the rosewood on the fingerboard is decent - which was my main concern.
the finish looks shite though - looks like someones attacked a thin white finish with some coarse sand paper (which they probably have). worst aging job i've seen in my live. but it might just be right for a punk rock looking V..
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I had one of those some time ago, just in black. It was a wonderful little axe, definitely. The neck was perfect and the resonance was staggering!
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I had one of those some time ago, just in black. It was a wonderful little axe, definitely. The neck was perfect and the resonance was staggering!
yes, the resonance is quite surprising
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It was a matter of impulse shopping for me. I saw it in a shop that was having a clearance sale some years ago, and my mate who I was with said I should try it out, mainly because it looked like arse :lol:
But then, having sat down and played it unplugged I just went "$%&#in' hell. I need this". Sure enough, 10 minutes later my VISA started bleeding :D
I kinda miss that guitar now though :(
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the finish looks shitee though - looks like someones attacked a thin white finish with some coarse sand paper (which they probably have). worst aging job i've seen in my live. but it might just be right for a punk rock looking V..
I know what you mean - I was going to buy one of those budget Juniors they're making at the moment, but when I saw one in the flesh the finish put me right off. It looked exactly like they'd slapped on one coat of Dulux white primer then given it a quick sanding. Horrible.
Nothing against "rustic" finishes in general though - I like the Edwards "Lacquer Taste" guitars which have loads of sinkage into the wood grain. But they still feel like finished guitars rather than cheap DIY projects.
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It's funny how people are different :lol:
I actually quite like those finishes!
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I think you should put 3 filtertrons in it. I don't know why.
sorry.
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I think you should put 3 filtertrons in it. I don't know why.
sorry.
Some people say "Why?!" and others say "Why not?"
The latter category tend to have more fun :lol:
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don't like the stock pickups /at all/ very mushy. the neck is ok though.
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don't like the stock pickups /at all/ very mushy. the neck is ok though.
What are they, 490T and 490R? They're Alnico II, not ideal for bridge pickups (IMO), but as you say the neck is not bad.
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don't like the stock pickups /at all/ very mushy. the neck is ok though.
What are they, 490T and 490R? They're Alnico II, not ideal for bridge pickups (IMO), but as you say the neck is not bad.
yeah exactly.. in fact the neck+bridge combination is probably the best sound on reflection.
the internetz tell me a good modification is to stick A5 magnets in these pickups. i can sort of see why.
anyroad, looking forward to ripping the electronics out!
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The story so far.
The Dirty Fingers in bridge burns (burns like fire). The one in the neck sounds a bit dark, but its not my parallel wired one. I think I'll try a mini-humbucker in the neck position soon.
So the volume pot is put in the strat position, I spent a while measuring it out, and then realised if I'd have moved it over just a little to the right, it would have lined up with the other controls. Oh well.
The volume control didn't need too much adjustment to the control cavity actually. I drilled most of the extra space needed, and then knocked it out with a screwdriver-chisel.
Also added pickup rings, a black truss rod cover and a nice capacitor.
Any thoughts?
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Humm a little better, but I like it without p.u. rings and with the white TRC
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Not loving it, to be honest. I don't like the volume control placement (although obviously that's your personal choice) and I think the black pickups and rings (and truss rod cover) look weird against that vast expanse of white (why did they go for a black headstock? :? ).
Covered pickups (minibuckers?) would look better.
Sorry!
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I know what you mean about the black truss rod cover (i assume its from a Goth or Voodoo model), I was already considering changing it back.
With the rings, I'm not decided either way. I'm pretty much definitely going to try a mini-HB in the neck. Do you think a black or chrome cover would look best there?
Kent Armstrong do some black firebird mini-HBs. The mini-HB in the neck will definately need a ring (I think they look sh1t direct pickguard mounted), so the dirty fingers in the bridge might look odd without one.
I think I've done the best I can with the controls considering I wanted the volume where it is for violining. I kind of don't mind them like that, is a hell of a lot nicer than it was before :) (IMO)
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Chrome cover for the mini, deffo!
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Chrome cover for the mini, deffo!
I hear you, and will take this in to account with all the many other factors when making my decision :) The idea is for a stripped down metal look, so I've stayed away from the idea of chrome parts, though I must admit, all the black is a bit too much on this guitar for some reason - although it looks fine on my white Greco. Which is weird.
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I must admit, all the black is a bit too much on this guitar for some reason - although it looks fine on my white Greco. Which is weird.
I just had a look at pictures of your Greco, you're right.
I think it may be due to the fact that the Greco is more of a Cream colour rather than the "Tipp-Ex" finish of the Gibson - so the black doesn't contrast quite so violently.
Also the control layout of the Gibson affects the visual balance - all the black bits are crammed into the "narrow bit" of the V, leaving very little to break up the big white area of the wings (IMO!).
(Why am I over-analysing this? Because I'm sitting waiting for British Gas to come and do a boiler inspection!)
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I don't think you are over-analysing Philly (or at least, that's exactly the way I'd think about the aesthetics of the thing myself :lol:) - they all seem like sound reasons why it doesn't quite work visually yet.
My first thought was "flip, those surrounds make the pickups look HUGE on this thing..." - this could be a good or bad thing, I just thought it looked a bit odd at first glance.
I wasn't sure about the Vol placement visually either, but I'm totally with Gwem on the violin-bowing. Once you've started doing it effectively on a strat or tele, you really miss the proximity on a Gibson. Yeah, I know it can be done with a volume pedal, but that's another piece of kit to plug in, and it's so much easier to do with the guitar's volume control once you've learnt it.
Bear in mind we're all looking at the guitar "stood on it's @rse", though... Gwem, perhaps we need pictures of it "slung-ready-for-action"? :lol: ... I have a feeling it might look better when someone's wearing it.
EDIT: I suspect the Tippex white is one of the main problems now... I haven't seen this finish close up on a guitar, but I suspect it's very hard to learn how to love it unless it was exactly what you set out to have... I reckon this one might end up getting refinished or treated in some way. Mebbe consider briwaxing it to get it to go off-white and slightly darker? Could be a bit hit-and-miss though. (My Faded SG, cherry, a bit anaemic originally, is gradually going a gorgeous dark and lustrous cherry with a gentle "Dark Pine" briwax treatment every six months or so - but this wasn't nearly as risky as starting on tippex-white! :lol:)
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I wasn't sure about the Vol placement visually either, but I'm totally with Gwem on the violin-bowing. Once you've started doing it effectively on a strat or tele, you really miss the proximity on a Gibson. Yeah, I know it can be done with a volume pedal, but that's another piece of kit to plug in, and it's so much easier to do with the guitar's volume control once you've learnt it.
Yeah, I can see the argument... but I'd move it a little further across and down, in a line with the other controls, so it sat just below the corner of the bridge pickup mounting ring, above the bridge (PRS volume control position, in effect). I think that would look better and be better placed (for me personally, obviously!)
Now that really is over-analysing! :lol:
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andy has the right idea with the volume control - i've written a few tracks using that violin effect now, and I want to play them on a V, because for some reason my audience (and band) won't accept me playing any other guitar. i agree the volume could go more across, but not down though, for practicality reasons.
i'm searching for a cheap but good mini-humbucker or firebird pickup at the moment. don't want to spend a fortune. i like philly's idea of a chrome cover.
i'm warming to the tippex white finish - its kind of punky
edit: just ordered something for the neck
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comments please :)
(i've also changed the truss rod cover back to the 3ply white)
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I think the last one looks best. If the humbucker had a matching cover I think it'd be great!
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Yeah, third or first, with a cover. Definitely not the middle one!
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thanks tom and philly
the mini-hb looks very john birch. am leaning to the first myself, the mini with chrome just takes the edge off all that black.
still pondering.
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I like the third one
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another for the 4rd with matching covers
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i like the 3rd also.
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sorry guys, I know you're all saying no rings, but I've decided to go with them, I'll post a last picture later, hopefully you'll agree with my decision then.
the mini-humbucker sounds good in the neck. i think it will work live, but theres only one way to know that for sure.
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Interesting, I was going by the thumbnails first, and I felt the 3rd one... maybe 1st, but the 1st wasn't grabbing me... (2nd, no way!)
Then I opened the pics up, and I think you're right, the rings are better.
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i'm pleased you agree Andy! and thanks for the comments everyone.
Heres that final pic I promised. I think I'll leave it like this for now.. The mini-HB is really going to work live I think, but the proof is in the pudding.
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that does look cool.
any chance of a body close up?
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that does look cool.
any chance of a body close up?
sure!!
i wonder about getting a proper scratchplate done, installing a YJM pot, or fitting witchhat knobs, but this will work until I'm happy with the electric configuration.
philly was right - the double humbuckers with rings was too much. but i think now, with the chrome neck mini-HB, it has just the right level of aggression and balance.
i also wonder about putting the black truss rod cover back on it now (!) :)
nothings set in stone, so still open to comments here, its a bit of an experiment this guitar.
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Cheers
I think a proper scratch plate would be a nice touch. I've not heard of the YJM pot before?
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Cheers
I think a proper scratch plate would be a nice touch. I've not heard of the YJM pot before?
its a high speed pot from Seymour Duncan and endorsed by YJM that looks interesting for violining techniques:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/newproducts/yjm-high-speed-volume-potentiometer.php
i'm not quite happy with the taper of the gibson pot. i could fit a normal CTS, or a BKP one, but I'm looking at options
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ah!
I see. I'd heard of something similar being on some of the wolfgangs. attributed to EVH obviously.
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ah!
I see. I'd heard of something similar being on some of the wolfgangs. attributed to EVH obviously.
yes, and in fact the internetz say that its the same pot, with different branding
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no rings - I think that looks the best (but you might have to think of a better solution for the middle pickup masking :lol:)
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Looks nice with the mini-hb. Hope you can get a matching scratchplate.
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i wonder about getting a proper scratchplate done, installing a YJM pot, or fitting witchhat knobs, but this will work until I'm happy with the electric configuration.
OK, it's looking good now - you should definitely get a new scratchplate though. :)
The YJM pots sound interesting - I don't like the stiff feel of most CTS pots ( :o call me a philistine). But all the "High-Speed", "minimal-viscosity lubricant" stuff has a whiff of snake oil about it. It's nothing revolutionary, PRS pots (which I think they get from CTS) always feel quite fast (or loose, to put it another way), so do the CGE pots WD sell, and in fact so do most cheapo pots!
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(http://europein8bits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/gwem_01.jpg)
heres a press shot with the guitar in question
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Arty! :P
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i would invest in a guitar stand
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Homes and Interiors magazine?
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yeah, its pretty arty farty isn't it :D thats what i like about it..
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yeah, its pretty arty farty isn't it :D thats what i like about it..
That's exactly what I thought when I viewed it earlier (a. arty, and b. I like it because it is), but no-one had made any comments at that time, and I wasn't sure whether that response would be encouraging to you! :lol:
i would invest in a guitar stand
Aahh... that's the whole point... "man as guitar stand" ... "does man lean on his guitar or does his guitar lean on him?..."
You've got to see the subtext (:lol:)
(Alternatively, it's "man on couch, with extremely large phallic symbol, pretending to be disinterested in girlfriend taking photograph in the nude...")
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i wonder about getting a proper scratchplate done, installing a YJM pot, or fitting witchhat knobs, but this will work until I'm happy with the electric configuration.
OK, it's looking good now - you should definitely get a new scratchplate though. :)
The YJM pots sound interesting - I don't like the stiff feel of most CTS pots ( :o call me a philistine). But all the "High-Speed", "minimal-viscosity lubricant" stuff has a whiff of snake oil about it. It's nothing revolutionary, PRS pots (which I think they get from CTS) always feel quite fast (or loose, to put it another way), so do the CGE pots WD sell, and in fact so do most cheapo pots!
$15 for a Bourns pot - someone is having a laugh. I'd be willing to bet they're no different to the standard Bourns range for £2.61 each...
http://www.bourns.com/data/global/pdfs/PDB241-GTR.pdf
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/PSF_393058/6928632/ (250k)
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/trimmers-potentiometer-rheostat/6928639/ (500k)
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$15 for a Bourns pot - someone is having a laugh. I'd be willing to bet they're no different to the standard Bourns range for £2.61 each...
http://www.bourns.com/data/global/pdfs/PDB241-GTR.pdf
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/PSF_393058/6928632/ (250k)
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/trimmers-potentiometer-rheostat/6928639/ (500k)
Those are good links! Anyone use Bourns pots? What's the quality like generally?
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I find the BKP 550K pots truly excellant
The taper is really nice with a little boost just at the top end - great for that old school riffs on 8 - solo on 10 type playing.
They have the right loose feel without being too loose
I find the PRS ones a tad too sloppy
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I find the PRS ones a tad too sloppy
I prefer too sloppy to too stiff (Afghan where are you?).... but I know what you mean. It is odd on my McCarty to find the push/pull feels stiffer and smoother than the "normal" pot.
Good to hear the BKP pots have a loose feel, I was expecting the usual need-both-hands CTS feel.
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Aahh... that's the whole point... "man as guitar stand" ... "does man lean on his guitar or does his guitar lean on him?..."
You've got to see the subtext (:lol:)
(Alternatively, it's "man on couch, with extremely large phallic symbol, pretending to be disinterested in girlfriend taking photograph in the nude...")
:lol:
just to clarify, I like the pic, it's very nice. Just can never resist a cheap joke :oops:
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Nice sofa.
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(http://europein8bits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/gwem_01.jpg)
heres a press shot with the guitar in question
the Vee looks nice, but I'd definitely be wanting to mount the pickups to a pickguard - those p/up rings don't look right to me.