Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: llJasonll on April 11, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
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My GAS is going to be the end of me...
So, I know I have posted a few topics about wanting to trade an amps, etc. Now I have really started to consider Axe-FX, and I want all Axe-FX users opinion's as to how it compares with Natural Tube Amps.
In my case, I have an Engl Savage and an Engl Fireball 100. I would have to sell both, in order to purchase an Axe-FX Ultra, and decent Fryette Power amp. Another big purchase is out of the question, until I get my GF a ring! :D I would have to work within my money already invested in gear.
I suppose the most important questions are:
How does Axe-FX compare to the "real-deal?"
If you had to choose one over the other, would it be Axe FX or your Amp of choice?
I was with a friend and we were discussing the issue with one of the x-guitar players from the Black Dahlia Murder; and he told me that after he bought his Axe FX, his Soldano SLO 100 became a $4,000 paper weight becase the Axe-FX was identical with the real amp. He ended up selling his Soldano. Has anyone experienced the same thing?
Thanks!!
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From what I can gather, if you're playing heavy and/or modern stuff the Axe-FX is excellent. Also, if you need a huge variety of tones and don't want to take several amps to a gig it's also excellent.
Our resident amp addict, Hunter, had one for a while and may still have it. However, I notice that his recent clips/videos are made using his Cornford MK50 or Bogner XTC.
For that reason, as they say, I'm out :lol:
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Yeah a wee while ago there was a near constant stream of THIS IS THE BESTEST THING EVER across the internet (including from Hunter here on this forum) then all of a sudden, nobody's talking about them, and lots of the people who were seem to have moved to other things.
I have seen a couple bands recently using them and sounding great, though. But exclusively using very modern tones.
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If you do a lot of recording i should imagine they are the bees knees. I'd love one but I wouldn't flog my Koch to buy it. ( :roll:)
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I find that they sound ok in there own way.
but they certainly dont sound like a real amp.
They still have that digital edge and oddness in the highs & low mids
But for the really modern stuff i guess they excel as thats what the bands playing the modern stuff use themselves
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Hmmm okay.
So even with a very good power amp, it still won't sounds like a real tube amp? That was one thing I was wondering about. I like to feel and hear the dynamics of my pick attack and how a real tube amp picks up all of the life of the player.
tough choices :)
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Your best bet would be finding someone who actually owns one and trying it for yourself.
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I've not tried an Axe-FX, I'm down in the cheaper seats with a Vox Tonelab, but fairly comfortable there.
I am one of the "modelling is cool" dudes on here. But I have to say though, although I happily use a modellor for recording (and I expect no-one except us guitar anoraks to be able to tell the difference :lol:) and for noodling sometimes, I much MUCH prefer playing through a valve amp that is voiced right for the volume I can use it at.
When I joined this forum I was using modelling exclusively, Line6 first, then the Tonelab. This was because I couldn't use my old gigging amp from 20 years ago in the flat we live in. That amp was, and is, gorgeous. But at "flat-friendly volumes" it sounds cr@p compared to modelling.
I was new to and learning modelling at the time, and was utterly amazed at what you can get out of it. Then a while back I got a small valve amp, and I am so much happier playing through that... it's not "better", just "different"... but it is more satisfying for the player.
For recording, at least the stuff I do, I'm convinced both amp or modelling methods can give equally effective results. On the day, one or the other is usually an easier method to achieve the desired result, so I do whatever it takes.
If I was playing live... I would be prepared to use a modellor... but I'd much rather have a valve amp.
I'm getting the impression that many people who've dabbled in modelling have gone through the same journey as me. Starts off with "Oh YEAH fab...", and then eventually you accept it for what it is, use it where it works... and then play a valve amp when you can! :lol:
I'd be wary of dumping both amps for a modellor, especially one that expensive. And especially, even though I'm a modelling fan, I would not replace a working valve amp gig-rig with modelling at the moment. If I wasn't happy with the valve amp rig, I might explore the modelling option, but I'd probably end up getting another valve amp instead at the moment.
Yep, tough choice...
I think Toe-Knee's absolutely right, see if you can try it out and see for yourself. However, while you're trying it, do be aware that the initial flexibility and general amazing-ness of modelling is very enticing, but it does seem to wear off after a while!
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I agree i too found modelling amazing as i used it exclusively for a few years.
line6 vox and various plugins.
i will still say it is great for what it is and i do still often use it for recording clean guitars as its far easier to get a good sound that way than micing.
Nothing gives you that same feel though as AndyR said
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HONESTLY .... Check this Sh1T out :o :o :o
Out of interest I typed "Axe-FX Ultra" into Google Shopping just to see prices and this is what came up first...
http://www.pabo.com/product/details/21225-ultra-c--k-enhancer.html?item_id=21225&item_title=ultra-c--k-enhancer&show_color=00&show_size=00#ultra-c--k-enhancer
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Axe-FX+Ultra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a#q=Axe-FX+Ultra&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=shop:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf&biw=1024&bih=634&fp=f4628a188e8dbce
Looks like Johnny Mac isn't the only one who won't be flogging his "Koch" :P
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I'm a big fan of modeling for recording too. But Im entirely happy with software that costs a fraction of the price of an axe-fx, y'know?
I'm really a pragmatist with gear, and whilst it might be really helpful to have something like an axe-fx, I'm all about what I need, and what the listener will notice. The few amps and pedals in guitar rig 3 suits me fine for recording, and one amp and a few pedals will always suit me live, too.
If you need 40 different sounds, something like an Axe-fx is an obvious choice. Though software and a laptop might be even more versatile and cheaper.
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Thanks for the helpfull advice.
Id have to agree and say that the most enticing thing is the versatility. I absolutely adore my sound with the Savage, though. The Fireball is cool, but I may want to swap for a 5150III, or a Dual Rec.
I really do need to get some one-on-one time with the axe-fx though. I just like how it can model a VH4 and a Soldano SLO (both amps would cost around $8,000), and after hearing how it modeled the SLO 100 "to a tee;" I was very enticed.
I was looking forward to meeting Jeff Loomis, with Nevermore, on the North American tour (they were coming to Detroit on April 30th) to pick his brain about his opinion, but it looks like that won't happen now either :(
Perhaps I'll check out some cheaper alternatives just to check out what the buzz is about and go from there.
Thanks!
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My GAS is going to be the end of me...
So, I know I have posted a few topics about wanting to trade an amps, etc. Now I have really started to consider Axe-FX, and I want all Axe-FX users opinion's as to how it compares with Natural Tube Amps.
In my case, I have an Engl Savage and an Engl Fireball 100. I would have to sell both, in order to purchase an Axe-FX Ultra, and decent Fryette Power amp. Another big purchase is out of the question, until I get my GF a ring! :D I would have to work within my money already invested in gear.
I suppose the most important questions are:
How does Axe-FX compare to the "real-deal?"
If you had to choose one over the other, would it be Axe FX or your Amp of choice?
I was with a friend and we were discussing the issue with one of the x-guitar players from the Black Dahlia Murder; and he told me that after he bought his Axe FX, his Soldano SLO 100 became a $4,000 paper weight becase the Axe-FX was identical with the real amp. He ended up selling his Soldano. Has anyone experienced the same thing?
Thanks!!
Axe is great but in two years it couldn't replace the real deal for me. Sold it and I am back to amps now. For portability and versatility, the Axe is hard to beat, but add a VHT2502 to the rack and it's as heavy as my 100W head.
It might do the trick for you. But if I were you, I'd sell those Engls and get that SLO100 from your friend :P
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i completely missed the part about the SLO.
Definitely get the SLO you may even be able to trade with him.
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Id love the SLO, but it isn't around anymore...
Hunter, how did you like the SLO module on the axe-fx?
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I havent played through one, and would be very interested to do so, but from the bajillions of clips around I think they have their own sound, and from those clips and the comparison clips with 'real' (i.e. valve) amps among the clips the sound is close, but no cigar.
For me to get one, the sound would have to work for me, and it doesnt. It clearly works for other people though, so I suppose you have to make that judgement for yourself.
What is clear and I think basically inarguable is whats already been said - if you need versatility or low volume high-quality-as-practicable recording, it pretty much cant be beat. I believe it can be rivalled with some of the better VST amp sims out there, including free ones, but for something in one box its looks quick and easy (compared to digging round and gathering VSTs) but expensive. The effects are also obviously excellent. A lot of the 'name' guitarists you see using them are using it for the effects with their favourite amps tones.
It does seem that the hype has died off. I think everyone was just surpised that the 'next step' in amp modelling was such a big one (and it was), but the novelty seems to have worn off: its not 'there' yet, from what I hear (and from what people like hunter that have had one have said; save that he doesnt like engls, he's usually got good taste ;)), and unless you need the versatility or lots of high quality effects, I wouldnt get it unless the sounds you hear really do it for you.
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Have you seen fearedse on youtube, his clips are great. He has loads of videos of the axe-fx and tube amps. It really depends though, if you are playing live all the time get the tube amps and if you are practicing get the axe-fx.
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For me if they didnt cost the same or more than a really awesome real amp they would be a lot more viable but the cost just seems so unrealistic when you compare the core tones themselves.
But as people have said for versatility it wins
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My only experience with modelling is an old Digitech GNX3000 I used to own and a few other, similar models I've tried. I think that like many of us here, I'd really like modelling to work for the variety, practicality and affordability it offers but at the moment, for me it's still too compromised. There are certainly useable tones in there and some decent effects but my real issue at the moment with them is that there's too much cr@p to sift through to get to the decent stuff. There's too many effects that are largely pointless, too many effects that are very poor quality and too many amp models that just sound too digital. If I was to make the move to multi effects it would have to offer a genuinely 'all-in-one' solution and when it does, I will happily make the change but until that point, I'll stick to valve amps.
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Thanks for all of the input!
It seems that the consensus for Axe FX is:
versatility +1
"Realness" -1
I think Axe Fx would be cool, but I dont think I am willing to sell my current amps for the Axe FX. Maybe I'll just pick one up at some point in the future. Thanks everyone!
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If you need MIDI control over preamp sounds and you want it to sound like a real tube amp then really, what's wrong with buying a MIDI tube preampo like the ADA or the Marshall JMP-1? Why make an amp that approximately imitates the sound of tube overdrive when you can have an amp that does genuine tube overdrive?
I just don't understand why anyone wants modelling amps.
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The big thing holding me back from wanting one would be the feel.
Does it "feel" like the tube amps its imitating?
Is it as touch sensitive/dynamic? All that jazz.
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i cant comment on that aspect as i havent personally played one but every modeller i have played has no feel whatsoever
as for midi control there are a few little gadgets
voodoo lab control switcher £150
rjm mini amp gizmo £230 i think
both do the same thing
hook up a midi board or multi fx (podxt vox tonelab etc)
and it will change the amp channels when you change patches
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I've been playing an axefx for a few years now and I love it. I've had a voodoo modded dual rectifier, engl fireball, peavey 6505 and the axefx to me beats them all. I won't speak about medium gain because I don't use it much but for high gain it kills. Huge tone with amazing articulation and almost no noise. The thing with reviews of the axefx on the web is you need to remember the firmware has been changing and upgrading for years so a review a year ago on the old firmware is a different animal all together. I'd say since firmware 10 the axefx is pretty close to the real deal.
I don't use FRFR setup I use it more like a traditional amp without cabinet sims. It goes... axefx into a solid-state power amp into 2 4x12s and my rig sounds hugeeeeee! A guy at my last gig couldn't understand how one guitarist sounded that big I talked with him for an hour explaining it lol. I love it but beware there's tweaking for days and days if you get sucked in
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I won't speak about medium gain because I don't use it much but for high gain it kills.
So ... it's a £3000 distorion pedal?
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I won't speak about medium gain because I don't use it much but for high gain it kills.
So ... it's a £3000 distorion pedal?
That's a bit of a bizarre take on it. Unless you consider a SLO100 to be one, too.
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Me, on the internet, not always 100% serious.
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Having said that ... if all it really does is high gain sounds .. then isn't that what a distortion pedal does?
I've heard nice cleans and crunches from a Soldano, never from a modelling amp.
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He said he didn't use it for anything else, not that it doesn't do anything else. The soldano I picked out of the air, I could have mentioned any fairly dedicated high gain amp, point stands.
And no worries, not serious, just a rubbish gag :lol:
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Well other guys that use it for medium gain and cleans say it's great, I'm just saying I'm not really after those tones so I'm not going to claim I know much about that side of things. All I know is if you like high gain amps it's killer. The one thing people get turned off by is they go FRFR and then put it side by side with a real amp and wonder why it doesn't sound the same. Well the reason is because they are using a cab IR that has a mic at one spot and it's not really the same result as a full cabinet in the room, and they get let down. But compare a recorded tone to the axefx with a cab IR and they are pretty much the same. But if you do hook the axefx up to a real cab I find it really hard to tell which is which. One thing that sometimes gives it away is that the axefx sometimes sounds too precise and clean, like you know amp X should be noisy and hissing but on the axefx it usually isn't because there is no wiring or components adding noise within it like a real amp, which is a good thing. I'm not going to say it's the end all for everyone but I think for guys who don't mind tweaking and learning a new concept how amp tones are created and manipulated I think you can get it to do most things extremely well.
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If you need MIDI control over preamp sounds and you want it to sound like a real tube amp then really, what's wrong with buying a MIDI tube preampo like the ADA or the Marshall JMP-1? Why make an amp that approximately imitates the sound of tube overdrive when you can have an amp that does genuine tube overdrive?
I just don't understand why anyone wants modelling amps.
As i posted in my topic I tried out an engl e530, ok , not a triaxis or jmp-1 but it should sound better than a pod hd and it sounded worse than any SS amp(harsh and fizzy). Setup was fine: engl e530-tube poweramp-marshall cab.
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in terms of modellers, what happened to the digitech GSP1101, mustaine was using it for years in to marshall poweramps live right? heard michael amott from arch enemy was using them too, but maybe only for fx.Any one compared the digi to fractal? I imagine the digi is more economical and does most things the fractal does?
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If you do a lot of recording i should imagine they are the bees knees. I'd love one but I wouldn't flog my Koch to buy it. ( :roll:)
:lol: Seems like we haven't had any Koch jokes here for ages!
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in terms of modellers, what happened to the digitech GSP1101, mustaine was using it for years in to marshall poweramps live right?
It was a Rocktron Prophesy II
and he is still using it into the power section of a jvm410h
and as for comparisons listen to endgame
mustaines guitars are teh above setup
and brodericks are axe fx into his powerballs poweramp cant remember which side either is panned though.
However the application megadeth use is quite different to what a lot of people seem to do as a lot see to just go DI into the PA rather than a valve power amp > cab then mic'd
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in terms of modellers, what happened to the digitech GSP1101, mustaine was using it for years in to marshall poweramps live right?
It was a Rocktron Prophesy II
I was trying to think what that was the other day, since you mentioned it and I said I hadnt heard and you said 'Yes you have! Megadeth.'
I thought chris used the axe in the loop for effects though. Could easily be wrong on that however
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in terms of modellers, what happened to the digitech GSP1101, mustaine was using it for years in to marshall poweramps live right?
It was a Rocktron Prophesy II
I was trying to think what that was the other day, since you mentioned it and I said I hadnt heard and you said 'Yes you have! Megadeth.'
I thought chris used the axe in the loop for effects though. Could easily be wrong on that however
there was an article in a guitar mag saying he used it for all the sounds on the album.
Then again it wasnt an interview so it could have just been a retarded writer that took effects as sounds
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I also heard that dave made him use JVMs for it.
AND I heard that daves sound was JVMs straight up...from sneap I think, but certainly on the sneap board.
So basically who knows :lol: (dave, chris and andy, I suppose :lol:)
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I also heard that dave made him use JVMs for it.
AND I heard that daves sound was JVMs straight up...from sneap I think, but certainly on the sneap board.
So basically who knows :lol: (dave, chris and andy, I suppose :lol:)
aye nobody really knows.
half of the time i Don't even think Dave knows....
I remember a video of him saying that he had to teach Marty Friedman how to palm mute when he joined megadeth....
However if you listen to the Cacophony albums theres loads of palm muting....
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Daves full of shite most of the time
And andy is as likely as anything to have let him play through whatever he wanted then reamp it anyway.
The idea of dave teaching marty anything at all is quite ammusing though.