Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: JacksonRR on April 12, 2011, 02:33:23 AM
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What do you guys do when it feels more like repetition than expression?
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I just got an learn a song that is completely out of the norm of what i normally play.
or try take a crack at something that i've always thought would be way too hard.
Generally seems to help me
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I usually get obsessed by a new band and completely rip off their licks ;)
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What do you guys do when it feels more like repetition than expression?
I usually take a day off, do another hobby, hang out with friends.
If you must play the guitar, then I usually try classical stuff or if you have other instruments I'd play those.
I get a lot of "repetition" feelings. Though sometimes "repetition" turns into "I really want to learn this damn solo," and then I start from 50% to 100% speed.
It works for me.
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I've been in a rut for AGES. YEARS.
I've tried playing in bands and I keep flaking out.
I think what I'm after is good people to jam with and to work on ideas with. I'm also hoping changing my lifestyle outside of music will have a positive effect.
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Play with new people. Listen to lots of different music. Rip off left right and centre!
Paddy
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Well, I have a really wide range of music I listen to. My playlists will have The Cars and Amon Amarth for instance....
I did learn the vocal parts of "Overkill" by Men at Work last night after posting. That was pretty fun trying to emulate voice with guitar and the challenge of ear learning it was consuming as well.
What else you guys got? These are some good pointers! :D
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Another great thing i find is to just simply buy a new piece of gear.
pickups/pedals etc always seem to do it for me
nothing beats a new guitar though
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Learn new music
New phrases new progressions, structural ideas etc etc etc etc
Theres always something new to learn. I never see why this is hard. "Isnt this the same shite I've been playing for a while now" being followed by "whats different that I like that I'd like to be able to play" followed by picking something followed by learning it and integrating it into your playing is just common sense, no?
Gear can help, yes. You get a vibe off something new or it allows a tone that facilitates a style that you couldnt really get before and you can go off on one with some new playing.
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I don't think it's all about the learning formula, MDV. I don't associate "lack of some thing new to play" with being in a rut. That process you mention is a big part of the rut for most of us like Jonny stated. We can work on scales and sweeps and other's songs and whatnot, but it doesn't do much for the mental excitement you get when you write material that really gets your rocks off and sounds like "you" or "you at this time period." It feels good to play someone else's feelings as they do(or just learn the robot finger dance with some of the Metal and Jazz), but getting yourself into the guitar is the problem I'm trying to present. I don't mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC-49GnjdTE
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I agree with the others-it is about going somewhere you've not gone before and you will pick up things that you can use. Obviously it isn't about going for something you dislike intensely but at the same time, don't dismiss it out of hand as there may be a technique/riff that you can incorporate into what you do like.
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What else you guys got? These are some good pointers! :D
Listen to other instruments and try to copy the phrasing and feel. Sax and clarinet lines are good for this, copying the vibrato and "space" in a line played on a wind instrument is a lot harder than it sounds.
The thing that gets me out of a rut is keyboards, do you dabble with keys? I find that going back to an instrument I can't play very well breaks those old habits of playing the same riffs over and over.
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Transposing other instruments to guitar is a good idea.
One thing that works for me is to re-learn songs I know, but in different keys or using different chord voicings. Even tuning down a half a step messes with your head.
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Learn slide guitar in open tuning with the slide on your 4th finger. Now that's a challenge.
edit: meant STANDARD tuning, anyone can do open tuning slide
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I don't think it's all about the learning formula, MDV. I don't associate "lack of some thing new to play" with being in a rut. That process you mention is a big part of the rut for most of us like Jonny stated. We can work on scales and sweeps and other's songs and whatnot, but it doesn't do much for the mental excitement you get when you write material that really gets your rocks off and sounds like "you" or "you at this time period." It feels good to play someone else's feelings as they do(or just learn the robot finger dance with some of the Metal and Jazz), but getting yourself into the guitar is the problem I'm trying to present. I don't mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC-49GnjdTE
Which is where the 'new things that you like' comes in, followed by the 'integrate into your own playing'. Why you would read me suggesting you find something different that you'd like to play and integrate it into your own playing and reply with 'but I dont want to play things I dont like, or bore me' I dont know.
We're all, as guitarists, the sum of our influences and what we've learned filtered and adapted by our own tastes and sensibilities, what gets our rocks off. That starts, has to start, with the dry music and technical form of it, even if its very simple music. I'm not talking about tech death metal or jazz here. You learn what it is, musically and mechanically and when you have that grip of the foundation of it, you can start to play with the basic new ideas you've just learned with the vibe and feel that you want them to have, or find they can have, within your own musical idiom.
I'm finding it very difficult here to see agreement between eschewing learning new techniques, fingerings, musical ideas and being a creative guitarist. It, to my mind, is like saying "I not know how express myself on words from mouth" and then refusing to learn grammar and develop your vocabulary.
my 2p. If you still dont see what I'm trying to say here theres nothing more I can say to try to help you.
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:lol: Whoa, dude. It's cool. Wasn't like that. :lol:
I was just tryin to have a conversation. I didn't start this thread thinkin this was something only I go through or that everyone thinks about it in the same way.
For me it's just not as simple as you put it. A few people have mentioned things that get the mind going. Putting yourself in a scenario for discovery in addition to formulaic learning. I didn't say the standard methods you mentioned were bunk, or I don't or won't do them, just that it doesn't cover the whole thing. I explained myself better because you said you didn't see why this is so hard and that the solution should be common sense.
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I'd agree with Frank about keyboards if you've got some. Ever since I picked up a guitar 30-odd years ago what I've really wanted to be is a piano player like Freddie Mercury!
A few years back I finally got some keyboards. I find it a real struggle playing them, but every time I do put any effort into it I discover it's done amazing stuff to my guitar playing.
Playing bass does the same thing to me. I'm a lot better at bass than piano, but I have to put a lot of work into creating bass parts - listening to the bass in songs that I like the effect they achieve, trying to get in the mind of the bassist figuring out how he/she fits the song. When I'm done with the bass part I was working on, and I pick up a guitar again, suddenly I can make the thing stand on its head.
But I'd also recommend the "taking a break and doing something else" option - put all the instruments down and catch up on the rest of the world. I really couldn't manage this years ago, I'd just obsess on music, getting frustrated, thinking I was cr@p (I wasn't, but I still thought I was).
If you feel like you're a slave to your guitar and music, that you "have" to do it otherwise you've wasted the day ... if it's driving you instead of the other way round... and then it accuses you of being repetitive and ineffective... then maybe try taking a break. Only needs to be a day or so for me. For example, I come home after work intending to do this or that on the guitar because I "must" and I've only an hour til the missus gets in, and then I look at the thing and think "sod it, you can wait..." and watch Eggheads or something instead. Next thing I know, a day or two later, I've been playing like a demon, written a song, maybe even recorded it, and I can't even remember feeling frustrated.
It comes and goes, I just accept it nowadays... The way I look at it, it's like making sure the guitars know who's the boss - me. They're like a bunch of children demanding my attention, which isn't always the best thing for me. But unlike real children, they're just lumps of wood and metal you can ignore without hurting their feelings!
It's different for different people though, the main thing is to find the way that works for you (and it helps having someone you trust, when you feel stuck in a rut, who says "well, it doesn't sound like it, I was enjoying that..." :lol:)
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use some bizarre tunings and learn songs that were written in these tunings - I find this takes the 'predictability' out of playing if im in a rut.
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:lol: Whoa, dude. It's cool. Wasn't like that. :lol:
I was just tryin to have a conversation. I didn't start this thread thinkin this was something only I go through or that everyone thinks about it in the same way.
For me it's just not as simple as you put it. A few people have mentioned things that get the mind going. Putting yourself in a scenario for discovery in addition to formulaic learning. I didn't say the standard methods you mentioned were bunk, or I don't or won't do them, just that it doesn't cover the whole thing. I explained myself better because you said you didn't see why this is so hard and that the solution should be common sense.
Okey dokey. I dont really go for the playing with other people thing because most people I've played with either suck, their playing bores the cr@p out of me, or they're going in very different directions than appeal to me, and when it comes to music and most especially my music, I become a tyrannical egomaniacal control freak and this simply will not do :lol: That and my day job leads me to encounter and work with different musicians all the time, and sometimes its very cool, sometimes I learn from it and it and the whole process of understanding their sound, influences and songs expands my own musical vocabulary, but mostly I dont want to be influenced by them and it irks me when something about what they played that I've now heard a thousand times drifts into my playing :lol:
But if you can find compatible musicians then that can be a very good thing. It just happens to me extremely rarely!
I'll second the keys/piano thing and add guitar pro or similar MIDI composition. As new gear can help with faclitating a vibe or style, taking the gear out completely can help a lot as well. A lot of guitar music relies on tone to the point where its a crutch for poor composition, imo. You take that crutch away and hear only the composition and your musicality can get a short sharp kick up the arse, and your playing benefits.
All of these, however, are just other ways to go about the 'learn new music' thing ;)
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Have a good Toke n Smoke, should help u play outside the box.
Did wonders for the Beatles when they went to India. And kept Bob Marley going for a very long time.
Oh sweet Mary Jane how I love you ect.
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I just buy some dope.
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Go see a great band playing live.
Even if it's not your style of playing. You will get a kick out of it and you will get inspired by it.
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Stuck in a big rut at the minute - trying to come up with new riffs and just getting nowhere.
I'll probably get depressed for a bit, make more-than-the-usual posts about how anyone with a telecaster is a w***er and eventually stumble upon some riff that I like, before it's put down by band mates.
Or something.
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Stuck in a big rut at the minute - trying to come up with new riffs and just getting nowhere.
I'll probably get depressed for a bit, make more-than-the-usual posts about how anyone with a telecaster is a w***er and eventually stumble upon some riff that I like, before it's put down by band mates.
Or something.
Why not write a song about how gay telecasters are?
im sure that will influence some incredibly brutal riffage from you!
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Here you go Roo. Inspiration for the Tele's are horrible song. I love this song and especially the performance, but Hal Lindes(I think) looks like a total fruitcake playing that tele.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pa9x9fZBtY
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Roo.
not my thing. but I think it might be yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQnJkvLeAk
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Nothing for Roo here.
Completely outside of the box Tele playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJtGY8uRNIw&playnext=1&list=PL790FAD85C2F8A63D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJtGY8uRNIw&playnext=1&list=PL790FAD85C2F8A63D)
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Stuck in a big rut at the minute - trying to come up with new riffs and just getting nowhere.
I'll probably get depressed for a bit, make more-than-the-usual posts about how anyone with a telecaster is a w***er and eventually stumble upon some riff that I like, before it's put down by band mates.
Or something.
Why not write a song about how gay telecasters are?
im sure that will influence some incredibly brutal riffage from you!
and play it on a Tele :o
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Roo.
not my thing. but I think it might be yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQnJkvLeAk
good band, this one of their videos is better though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suN1QWJMWQM&NR=1
it looks like a youth club training school for moshing.
also, wtf is with all this flinging your arms around now? - it really p*isses me off at metal gigs. nothing wrong with a good old mosh pit, but getting repeatedly tw*ated in the face by flailing arms gets tiring very quickly. no wonder there are always fights at gigs now.
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that dancing stuff is old.
It's one of those things that just found its way into the mainstream. It goes way back really... maybe over 20 years now.
That band isn't really my thing.
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Listen to this ''chickinpickin'' guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSILDtXfgv4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSILDtXfgv4)
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I'm sorry i haven't read the whole topic (but i will!) but here's what i have to contribute to the main topic.
what really helped me getting back into guitar was the following things:
first doing something completely different, i'm on an acoustic fingerstyle trip these days and it really helped me put a time for guitar in my schedule since the stuff i want to learn is quite hard on the fingerpicking hand (tallest man on earth is gooood stuff).
when i discovered guthrie govan, he was so ridiculous i felt i needed to have a go at some of his stuff. but he showed me that it's possible to have crazy technique but still have a good note choice and phrasing.
jam tracks, alot of them. when i play over the same jam tracks for too long, i have to change, because after a while you get used to the changes and they don't surprise you so much anymore. i think trying to improvise helps alot.
funny thing. when you have a bout of drunk playing, try to record it. listen to it the next day, while some parts are abysmal, the carefree drunk kind of playing sometimes brings out natural stuff you didn,t think about.
physical limitations. i have a guitar strung with heavy heavy heavy strings so bending is a no no, so i have to focus on note choice. i have another strung with 10's, which for me is very light, so the legato works really well and i go for two handed stuff, and it really helps with your ear training as far as bending goes. you listen to the note, not how hard you bend.
remove the gain? try new tones! i was a humbucker man for so long but i'm having fun with stratty sounds nowadays and it really brings out new licks in me.
also, don't be afraid to mess up?
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Just go buy yourself a big bag of green.
Oooops I think I already said that. So I'll say it again.
Just go buy yourself a big bag of green.
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I start to play either acoustic or classic rock
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This is all the inspiration I've ever needed...
http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/06/practice-in-front-of-bush-captain.html
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Just discovered a good one last week. I took one of my guitars and adjusted the action on it to be really high because I wanted to try slide. Didn't really dig slide guitar, BUT I ended up jamming out on it for about 2 hours. All the little tricks and faster movements are a lot harder with a high action. Have to use some muscle to get things to happen. Went back on an axe with my preferred really low action and did I ever sense an improvement in my playing and feel. So I've been going back and forth working things up to speed on "the workout guitar" and then playing them again on a nice feeling instrument and I'm having a blast so far.
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* Re-learn old favorites, but transposed into a different key.
* Tune down a half step or tune up a half step and re-learn old favorites or something new.
Either of these will mess with both your head and muscle memory more than you might think.
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Some ideas:-
Play with a capo now and again. Just putting a capo on the 5th fret and playing a few open chords makes things sound different.
If you don't already, learn some tunes. Not solo's, riffs or chrods but full tunes. Fingerstyle or chord melody.
Play at different times. I struggle in the evening but if I'm on the road for work I put a guitar in the boot and have a little play when I stop.
Have some lessons. A good teacher can always get you out of a rut.
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noodle over Abba using far too much gain. Will 100% work.
Just don't tell anyone.