Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Laimon on April 17, 2011, 01:14:39 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm planning to buy soon a pair of Cold Sweat, and I was checking the wiring instructions.
I find funny that among the many options there is not one for 2 humbackers, 1 volume, 1 tone and 3-way toggle. A lot of variants with push-pull and so on, but surprisingly not this one.
Since I'm not an expert, I'm quite confused about this illustration, and least of all I am able (as of now, at least) to infer from other illustrations if I can put into place what I want.
So, my objective is really simple: I have three positions, I want the south position to use the bridge humbucker, the north position to use the neck humbucker, and the middle to use one coil from each humbucker (the ones closer to the center). This is a very typical configuration, I expect it to be easy to do.
Can anyone tell me whether it's possible (that should be obvious, I guess) and how to?
Thanks
Simone
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What guitar are we talking about?
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It's an Agile Interceptor Pro (http://www.rondomusic.com/product3682.html)
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can't say I've ever come across that wiring scheme on a 3-way Gibson-type switch, you normally get the two pickups in parallel humbucking mode in the centre position.
both pickups split and in parallel in the middle sounds like an interesting idea - would like to hear how that sounds.
I'd imagine the wiring diagrams on the Duncan website will have something like this drawn up, its a really useful resource.
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Seriously? Most guitars with 2 *passive* humbuckers and 3-way toggle that I've run into have this configuration.
Of course with actives the splitting is not an option, so those just go in parallel.
Man, you gotta try it: the two single coils in parallel are heaven for your cleans ;-)
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Every guitar I've ever seen or played or with 2 passive humbuckers and a 3 way toggle has just had both pups in parallel in the middle position.
My charvel has 2 HB's, 1 vol, 1 tone, with a 3 way toggle. The coils are not split though.
I think you'd need a more complex switch than a gibson style 3 way toggle to get this to work.
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Seriously? Most guitars with 2 *passive* humbuckers and 3-way toggle that I've run into have this configuration.
I've been playing for 30 years now, and I never ever met a guitar wired this way -but I have to admit I'm really the old school kind of guy when it comes to guitars ;)
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I've never seen this wiring before either, and for it to work you're going to need some extra wire(s) running from the pot cavity to the toggle - I'm not sure there's enough room to do it?
You've got to get the split wires from the pickups to be switched to ground via the three-way...
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Oh, shite, now I see why it won't work.
The 3 way toogle actually takes only 2 signals, and can either choose one of them of mix it. Right?
So the question is immediate: do there exist 3-way toogles that actually choose between 3 different signals?
(and I can imagine your question too: why don't you just get a push-pull? :D)
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Well if you have the space you could try something like this
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Free-Way_Pickup_Switch.html
There is an Instructions Tab with a PDF containing wiring info.
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Awesome man, thanks!
Yeah, I have plenty of space, hence I think I'm going for it ;-)
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post a pic when you're done and remember to check the wire colours. they vary from one manufacturer to another
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Sure, but that won't happen for a while I'm afraid... passive pickups have a larger base than active ones, so I'll need to enlarge che cavities in the body (on the bottom, it won't be visible outside), drill closer holes in the baseplate, do all the wiring...in short, I live abroad and I don't have the tools to do it here, I'll have to wait for the summer when I'm back home. And then I'll be very glad to show you guys the work :)
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So, my objective is really simple: I have three positions, I want the south position to use the bridge humbucker, the north position to use the neck humbucker, and the middle to use one coil from each humbucker (the ones closer to the center). This is a very typical configuration, I expect it to be easy to do.
This is like the John Petrucci Ernie Ball/Music Man wiring.
You need a special 4-pole, 3-way switch:
http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html (http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html)
Here's the wiring diagram:
http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf (http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf)
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So, my objective is really simple: I have three positions, I want the south position to use the bridge humbucker, the north position to use the neck humbucker, and the middle to use one coil from each humbucker (the ones closer to the center). This is a very typical configuration, I expect it to be easy to do.
This is like the John Petrucci Ernie Ball/Music Man wiring.
You need a special 4-pole, 3-way switch:
http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html (http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html)
Here's the wiring diagram:
http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf (http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf)
That is actually what I had in mind, brilliant!
Except that, now that I know of it, I think I prefer the 6-way toggle...more possibilities, no? :)
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That is actually what I had in mind, brilliant!
Except that, now that I know of it, I think I prefer the 6-way toggle...more possibilities, no? :)
True, but sometimes simple is better. :wink:
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That is actually what I had in mind, brilliant!
Except that, now that I know of it, I think I prefer the 6-way toggle...more possibilities, no? :)
True, but sometimes simple is better. :wink:
True. That's why I didn't want a 3-way selector + a push-pull pot ;-)
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It's an Agile Interceptor Pro (http://www.rondomusic.com/product3682.html)
JEEZ man, that guitar looks awesome and it's only $800 new. Man I need to get a 7 String Agile!!! LOLOL! GASGASGASGASGASGAS
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It's an Agile Interceptor Pro (http://www.rondomusic.com/product3682.html)
JEEZ man, that guitar looks awesome and it's only $800 new. Man I need to get a 7 String Agile!!! LOLOL! GASGASGASGASGASGAS
Eh eh man, it's a really nice axe ;-)
But I can not stand the pickups, and that is a minor problem if you want to change from EMG 707 to Duncan Blackouts or viceversa (they have same electronics and same size). If like me instead you want passive pickups (and if you're here I guess you do) you will need to change all alectronics (almost) and do some magic with the wood to fit the passive pickups (whose baseplates are larger than the cavities in the body). I will do it in the next months and maybe post about it, if you're interested.
Other thing, the neck is a bit thick, but I can't complain really as it's really comfortable, even being thick :)
If you need more advise, pm'me ;-)
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You need to order a set with one magnet reversed for this to work properly and hum cancelling
I do it all the time
You will need the 12 pole switch - 4p3t
One side will act like a 3 way toggle and the other side will deal with the coil splits
I have a diagram somewhere here for it
You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
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You need to order a set with one magnet reversed for this to work properly and hum cancelling
I do it all the time
You will need the 12 pole switch - 4p3t
One side will act like a 3 way toggle and the other side will deal with the coil splits
I have a diagram somewhere here for it
You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
Aehm...I'm not sure I get anything :oops:
It's maybe better if I tell you what I am gonna do (and you can tell me if there's anything wrong), which is the following:
a) buy a set of calibrated open Cold Sweats (and all necessary pots, jack sockets and so on)
b) buy the free-way selector suggested in one post above
c) follow the diagram for the pickups in all points, except connection to the selector
d) use the diagram for the selector to complete the work, obviously properly mapping the cable colors.
Do you find any flaws in this plan? I never heard of the reverse magnet, maybe that's what they for calibrated sets indeed?
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You need to order a set with one magnet reversed for this to work properly and hum cancelling
I do it all the time
You will need the 12 pole switch - 4p3t
One side will act like a 3 way toggle and the other side will deal with the coil splits
I have a diagram somewhere here for it
You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
Aehm...I'm not sure I get anything :oops:
It's maybe better if I tell you what I am gonna do (and you can tell me if there's anything wrong), which is the following:
a) buy a set of calibrated open Cold Sweats (and all necessary pots, jack sockets and so on)
b) buy the free-way selector suggested in one post above
c) follow the diagram for the pickups in all points, except connection to the selector
d) use the diagram for the selector to complete the work, obviously properly mapping the cable colors.
Do you find any flaws in this plan? I never heard of the reverse magnet, maybe that's what they for calibrated sets indeed?
Hi,
Calibrating and magnet reversal is not the same. Calibrating only means that you get bridge and neck pickups that are balanced to each other. The magnet orientation has nothing to do with it, and reversing the magnet in one pickup does not make the pickups "uncalibrated".
The normal magnet stagger going from bridge to the fretboard is Southpole - Northpole - Northpole - Southpole.
If you use the coil split to activate the inner coils you will have both Northpoles on and cannot achieve a humbucking effect.
If you reverse the magnet in one pickup you get South - North - South - North (Neck PU reversed) or North - South - North - South (Bridge PU reversed). Activate both inner coils (or both outer coils) and you will get the humbucking effect.
Just specify with your order that the pickups are going into a guitar with PRS rotary wiring, then they will come with a proper magnet stagger. The 4 conductor wire will facilitate all wiring options.
Cheers Stephan
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You need to order a set with one magnet reversed for this to work properly and hum cancelling
I do it all the time
You will need the 12 pole switch - 4p3t
One side will act like a 3 way toggle and the other side will deal with the coil splits
I have a diagram somewhere here for it
You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
Aehm...I'm not sure I get anything :oops:
It's maybe better if I tell you what I am gonna do (and you can tell me if there's anything wrong), which is the following:
a) buy a set of calibrated open Cold Sweats (and all necessary pots, jack sockets and so on)
b) buy the free-way selector suggested in one post above
c) follow the diagram for the pickups in all points, except connection to the selector
d) use the diagram for the selector to complete the work, obviously properly mapping the cable colors.
Do you find any flaws in this plan? I never heard of the reverse magnet, maybe that's what they for calibrated sets indeed?
Hi,
Calibrating and magnet reversal is not the same. Calibrating only means that you get bridge and neck pickups that are balanced to each other. The magnet orientation has nothing to do with it, and reversing the magnet in one pickup does not make the pickups "uncalibrated".
The normal magnet stagger going from bridge to the fretboard is Southpole - Northpole - Northpole - Southpole.
If you use the coil split to activate the inner coils you will have both Northpoles on and cannot achieve a humbucking effect.
If you reverse the magnet in one pickup you get South - North - South - North (Neck PU reversed) or North - South - North - South (Bridge PU reversed). Activate both inner coils (or both outer coils) and you will get the humbucking effect.
Just specify with your order that the pickups are going into a guitar with PRS rotary wiring, then they will come with a proper magnet stagger. The 4 conductor wire will facilitate all wiring options.
Cheers Stephan
Thanks man, you seem to know a lot about it ;-)
I knew a few of the things you mentions, among which the usual south - north - north - south disposition of the coils, and I see your point in getting the humbucker sound.
The problem is that I don't think I *want* the humbucker sound, there. My intention was really to obtain this double coil, crisp sound for the cleans by selecting the innermost coils of each pickup.
First example that comes to my mind, listen to Erotomania by Dream Theater, right after minute 2:50. I believe those cleans are made with the two inner coils...and they don't really sound like an humbucker.
But again, I might be wrong. I'm really not experienced (yet) with technical details, so please feel free to contradict me ;-)
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You NEED
A pickup set with the magnet reversed in one pickup - like a PRS guitar with a roatary selector would use
You need the 12 pole 4P3T type switch (Dimarzio sell them, but they can be got from Allparts too)
This is the wiring that John Pettrucci used and also features on certain Musicman Axis guitars too
The Freeway switch will not help you as far as I know - although someone may have figured out some clever coil splitting option with it
And Philly Q gave you links to a Dimarzio colour coded version of the diagram too
Here it is again - just convert the Dimarzio to BKP colours with the pickup s with the reversed magnet and all will work well.
This is like the John Petrucci Ernie Ball/Music Man wiring.
You need a special 4-pole, 3-way switch:
http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html (http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html)
Here's the wiring diagram:
http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf (http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf)
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You NEED
A pickup set with the magnet reversed in one pickup - like a PRS guitar with a roatary selector would use
You need the 12 pole 4P3T type switch (Dimarzio sell them, but they can be got from Allparts too)
This is the wiring that John Pettrucci used and also features on certain Musicman Axis guitars too
The Freeway switch will not help you as far as I know - although someone may have figured out some clever coil splitting option with it
And Philly Q gave you links to a Dimarzio colour coded version of the diagram too
Here it is again - just convert the Dimarzio to BKP colours with the pickup s with the reversed magnet and all will work well.
This is like the John Petrucci Ernie Ball/Music Man wiring.
You need a special 4-pole, 3-way switch:
http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html (http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/guitar-bass-parts/electronics/switches/on-on-on-4-pole-toggle-switch-12-terminals-p-4064.html)
Here's the wiring diagram:
http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf (http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf)
Ok, I believe now that I might have to ask for the reverse magnet, but I don't think I can't go for the free-way selector, which does allow coil splitting, check this: http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-0040/i-0040.pdf
I was also thinking: wouldn't mounting the neck pickup upside-down (and then appropriately reverting the wires) be the same as having the reverted magnets?
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OK - I've looked at the stew-mac diagram and yes it does seem to offer those options
The reverse magnet choice just allows the two single coils on together to be hum cancelling too
You can achieve much the same odds by turning the pickup around but it will mean a complete brainstorm over which wire to go where (and you end up with a non symmetrical arrangement of screw poles which some people won't like visually )
If you have to order the pickups anyway - what is the problem asking for a magnet flip when you do
If in doubt go through a dealer/stockist /installer who understands what you are trying to achieve (like us for example ) and they will make sure the order is placed correctly for the application you seek
I actually have some free-way switches in stock so I might have a look at one too myself.
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OK - I've looked at the stew-mac diagram and yes it does seem to offer those options
The reverse magnet choice just allows the two single coils on together to be hum cancelling too
You can achieve much the same odds by turning the pickup around but it will mean a complete brainstorm over which wire to go where (and you end up with a non symmetrical arrangement of screw poles which some people won't like visually )
If you have to order the pickups anyway - what is the problem asking for a magnet flip when you do
If in doubt go through a dealer/stockist /installer who understands what you are trying to achieve (like us for example ) and they will make sure the order is placed correctly for the application you seek
I actually have some free-way switches in stock so I might have a look at one too myself.
Sure, I will ask for the magnet flip, I was just curious to know whether my intuition was correct ;-)
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Hi guys,
I resume this thread as in a few days I'll finally have the chance to realize my plan for which I bugged (some of) you some time ago.
Quick recap: I own an Agile Interceptor Pro with Seymour Duncan Blackouts, and I wanted to change to Bareknuckle Colde Sweats. Furthermore, I wanted to have the coil splitting without using a push-pull pot.
So here is what I've done so far:
a) bought the Cold Sweats, calibrated, with reversed magnet in one of them
b) bought all the right pots (550K) and capacitor
c) bought a freeway toggle (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Free-Way_Pickup_Switch.html)
And here is what I suppose I should do to make it work. First, remove the Blackouts and all electronics. Then, take the wiring scheme for the freeway (http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-0040/i-0040.pdf) and properly map the Bareknuckle conductor colors to the colors in the scheme. Once I figure the mapping, I apply it for one humbuckers, and I reverse it for the other (due to the flipped magnet).
Can anybody confirm this is right?
Furthermore, I'm a bit confused as to the naming of conductors, most talk about north-south start-finish, but others use different names. In the case of the Bareknuckle pickups, they talk of screw and slug coil...which is supposed to be north and which south?
Thank you guys in advance for any help.
PS: I might take a few pictures to show you the work ;-)
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Generally, "North" is the slug coil, "South" is the screw coil.
For BKP (hopefully someone will correct me if this is wrong):
North start = Red
North finish = Green
South finish = White
South start = Black
The Stewmac diagrams seem to be using Seymour Duncan's colour coding.
I'm not sure if you need to reverse the wiring due to the flipped magnet or not - looking at those diagrams is giving me a headache! - hopefully Feline will chip in.
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You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
This is what Feline said before... I am indeed not sure this step is needed: if the magnets are already flipped, so should the wires' "function", no?
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You also need to turn the wiring "inside out" on one pickup - red and black become the coil tap point and green and white will be the hot and earth
This is what Feline said before... I am indeed not sure this step is needed: if the magnets are already flipped, so should the wires' "function", no?
If it was two single coils, you need RW/RP - reverse wind and reverse polarity - for them to be a hum-cancelling pair.
Flipping the magnet only reverses the polarity.... so maybe you also need to flip the wires to reverse the wind of each humbucker coil?
But I'm really not sure!! I'd probably resort to trial and error. :lol:
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I've cut to the chase and written to Tim, he told me that theoretically the same colour code. Good =)