Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: ShredHeadJHJ on April 22, 2011, 12:45:18 AM
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It's a fight to the death. Duel if you will. Pros/Cons, and comparrisons of each.
Would each work well in a LP?
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In a bright Les Paul the Holy Diver and the Crawler would do fine, but not in a darker sounding one. They both are middy and warm, but in different way. The HD more agressive and suitable for metal, the Crawler a creamy bold vintagehotpaf on steroids. The Rebel Yell's will work great in darker sounding Les Pauls. Personally I think the Crawler excels in bolt-on guitars like superstrats. The HD I'm not familiar with, but it's reckoned to be thick and providing fluid leads. In an not too bright Les Paul I would favour RY's and maybe work with the toneknob.
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I'd be amazed if the Holydiver didn't work in a Les Paul given all the positive reviews it's received unless it's massively dark. I was seriously impressed with this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26RqvH3YBA
I've never tried a Crawler and the clips on the website suggested something entirely vintage but there are a number of clips in the Player's section that suggest it can do a lot of styles and do them very well indeed. I'd guess a brighter or middy Les Paul would like these.
I've equally never tried a Rebel Yell but the Steve Stevens clip sounds fantastic, though the fact that it's supposed to be even tighter than a Nailbomb would worry me a bit. Having said that, I think it's very much a dark Les Paul pickup.
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This guy's tone is nasty. Based on the reviews I would think Holy Diver for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXr1TDzViBk
Crawler bridge kind of worries me for some reason. I can't quite pin point it, but everything leads me think it would be more smooth as opposed to aggressive. I'm looking for something a tad nasally (like Doug).
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Doug-tones require the HD. The Crawler is indeed on the smooth side.
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Here's a good question, and one I have yet to ask:
How does to HD compare to the RY?
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the dark les paul x holy diver issue is a myth, in my experience
had it in two dark and bassy les pauls and in a brighter one
it actually sounded brighter in one of the dark les pauls than it did in the brighter les paul, and sounded better in the darkest dark one than in the other two
the black dog, in the other hand, sounds quite dark in my lp custom, and so did the diver in a gibson SG, but not in any les paul I've installed it
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See, I don't know for sure whether my LP is bright or dark really. You kind of need to try a couple of pick-up configurations to really find out. It has an ebony fretboard so it'll probably be bright for a LP but still much darker than any other guitars that I have.
I'm most weighing on the HD or RY, really. I take it that the Crawler is tighter than the HD, but the RY has other characteristics that I like.
Does the HD cut through?
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I don't have any problems with my HD cutting through! you have not told us what amp you are using?
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I don't have any problems with my HD cutting through! you have not told us what amp you are using?
Hey man. I use a Splawn Quick Rod... Looking for that Doug Aldrich / Nuno Bettencourt (1st Extreme Album) / John Sykes / Slash / Vivian Campbell / Warren DeMartini / Jake E. Lee esque tone.
I posted all about it in another thread, but I'm having trouble finding exactly what I want to hear as there is a lot of conflicting information on teh internetz :P
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So I take it:
Rebel Yell - TIGHTEST >>>
Crawler - MIDDLE OF THE ROAD >>>
Holy Diver - LOOSEST (but not loose)
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I would not hesitate in saying HD if you were using Marshall as I have gigged 2-3 shows a week for years and would be happy covering with the Divers! have never tried RYs or Splawn amps, so maybe the RYs would suit, I'm quite sure the HDs would be better for you than Crawlers.
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I think you'll be happy with the Divers.
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with the diver boosted with your keeley ts9 into the quickrod, you won't have a problem dialing doug's lead tone and playing some jake and vivian stuff
if you turn off the boost and dial out the volume pot a bit, you'll easily get in Slash area as well
just make sure you get the best pickup height setup (I liked it quite close to the strings, unlike the nailbomb)
I'd get warmer speakers, though
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I'd get warmer speakers, though
I'm thinking about one day getting the Scumback M75-LHDC / H75-LHDC 100w combo. They'reeeee pricey though. My friend who inspired me to get the Splawn plays the same speakers as me, but he uses different cabs. So far with the guitars and such I have bought I have not gotten close to his monster 80's tone, so I want to try to do that with this guitar. I'm thinking about also maybe getting Eminence Splawn Small Blocks (similar to Greenbacks) if the Scumback thing doesn't work out.
I spoke to Nick at The Axe Palace and he highly recommended Rebel Yells. They were Tim's 2nd or 3rd pick for me. Nick said the Holy Divers would be very dark in my guitar, and Tim seemed not to recommend the HD's for me. Tim's 1st pick was the Crawler... but everything I've read or heard about them seems to conflict with what I want.
My cab shipped out today :) :) :) As soon as I get it and test the water's with the current SD pups and the cab I'm going to order the Gold Ray Gun RY's :) :) :)
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The whole tightness thing is all relative and depends on the amp, cab and maybe even pedals you have IMO. I find it often a bit easier to actually cut flab with the EQ of my amps than to dial in a bigger sound. The Holy Diver has a big sound. A LP + a HD would probably give you a huge sound.
For example I had various pickups in my Baritone before the HD; a lot of them were tighter than the HD, but the amp's EQ takes care of that easily. On the other hand there is no way I could've gotten that big sound out of some of the pickup's I had before.
From what I heard of Splawn amps I doubt you'd have too much of a problem doing the same.
So the chart above shouldn't be "LOOSEST" but "BIGGEST".
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I'd get warmer speakers, though
I'm thinking about one day getting the Scumback M75-LHDC / H75-LHDC 100w combo. They'reeeee pricey though. My friend who inspired me to get the Splawn plays the same speakers as me, but he uses different cabs. So far with the guitars and such I have bought I have not gotten close to his monster 80's tone, so I want to try to do that with this guitar. I'm thinking about also maybe getting Eminence Splawn Small Blocks (similar to Greenbacks) if the Scumback thing doesn't work out.
I spoke to Nick at The Axe Palace and he highly recommended Rebel Yells. They were Tim's 2nd or 3rd pick for me. Nick said the Holy Divers would be very dark in my guitar, and Tim seemed not to recommend the HD's for me. Tim's 1st pick was the Crawler... but everything I've read or heard about them seems to conflict with what I want.
My cab shipped out today :) :) :) As soon as I get it and test the water's with the current SD pups and the cab I'm going to order the Gold Ray Gun RY's :) :) :)
I have a pair of scumback H75's in my 1960A
they are not that much better than current production chinese G12H's, just a bit middier and fuller
I paid $160 for the pair, so was definitely worth it, but I wouldn't pay $180 a piece
the M75's seem to have some extra juice, though, but I didn't try those
weber silver bells could be interesting for your setup
my lp is quite dark sounding and still sounded fairly bright with the holy diver, which was just a bit darker than the aftermath, and brighter than the nailbomb, that had a stronger high end, but isn't brighter
it is not a dark sounding pickup at all, and you play a splawn, which is quite bright and focused
unless you're using some heavy downtuning, I'll keep the diver advice over the rebel yell
it's easier to make a big tone sound lean and tight than thickening it up and rounding the edges without getting overly compressed
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The whole tightness thing is all relative and depends on the amp, cab and maybe even pedals you have IMO.
I'd agree with this for sure. When I first tried my Nailbomb it was through a Blackstar HT amp and was insanely tight but with the same settings through my Marshall the sound was much fuller. I can't see how a Rebel Yell will get you closer to the tones you mentioned than a Holydiver but clearly others here have far more experience of these pickups than me so I'd listen to them.
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I think Eric made a good point. We're talking here about guitars and pickups, but amp and cab or combo have a big influence on tone and tightness.
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shite, these are crazy hard decisions. I'm literally going to be ready to order no later than probably Wednesday...
It's the RY vs. the HD
I see that the HD is one of the highest output BKP's on the market. Does it have that sound of being high-output, or does it react more like a thick aggressive mid-output pup?
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For what you play I think it would be the one of choice! however as I said I have no experience of the RYs
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shitee, these are crazy hard decisions. I'm literally going to be ready to order no later than probably Wednesday...
It's the RY vs. the HD
I see that the HD is one of the highest output BKP's on the market. Does it have that sound of being high-output, or does it react more like a thick aggressive mid-output pup?
dc-resistance is not the direct equivalent for output.
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shiteee, these are crazy hard decisions. I'm literally going to be ready to order no later than probably Wednesday...
It's the RY vs. the HD
I see that the HD is one of the highest output BKP's on the market. Does it have that sound of being high-output, or does it react more like a thick aggressive mid-output pup?
dc-resistance is not the direct equivalent for output.
Ummmmmmm, hence my question dude...
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the nailbomb feels a lot higher output than the holy diver
the diver is quite aggressive, but I'd say it's mid-high output
a bit less than the cold sweat
it is thick, but not some sort of fat and friendly dull pickup
it shows some teeth
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/67-Jose%20%236%202-27.mp3
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/92-VH4%2012-22.mp3
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/23-Revelation.mp3
http://www.netmusicians.org/files/50-ampwhore%2Belmwoodm90.mp3
edit: clips were recorded by the user J.B. with the Diver in a Les Paul Custom
1 - cameron jose marshall
2 - diezel VH4
3 - cameron marshall (aldrich?)
4 - elmwood M90
he has some suhr aldrich clips on netmusicians for comparison
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Only the first link works for me but damn, what a gread sound!
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shiteeee, these are crazy hard decisions. I'm literally going to be ready to order no later than probably Wednesday...
It's the RY vs. the HD
I see that the HD is one of the highest output BKP's on the market. Does it have that sound of being high-output, or does it react more like a thick aggressive mid-output pup?
dc-resistance is not the direct equivalent for output.
Ummmmmmm, hence my question dude...
Eric explained that well. He had/has them both and can advice you better.
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didn't have the rebel yell :(
my main LP ('73 pancake body lp custom) had nailbombs, cold sweats, neck mule, aftermath, holy diver, black dog and a... motor city pickups set
somebody call gwEm :lol:
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I meant HD and NB.