Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: clyde billt on April 22, 2011, 10:40:27 AM
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Picked up a nice 4x12 cab recently, been after one for a while.
However it came with a 1987X amp, which I really like. Does a great rock sound is and fantastic for a bit of Clash/Pistols when I'm getting my punk on,but man is it loud.
I'm fortunate that I can do loud at home but this thing is really fkcn loud. In an industrial injury type of way
Does anyone have any kind of experience of how it would sound with an attenuator attached or should I move it on for a 30 watt JTM 45 (classic bluesy rock). There is one fairly local to me at a decent price.
I change my mind every couple of hours.
Here's a dodgy phone pic of it looking the bollocks
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JTM's are also known to be loud.
I think an attentuator might be the sollution.
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yeah, 30 watts really won't be much quieter, or less loud, than 50 watts. if you like the sound of the 1987 i'd stick with it. should be a great amp. unless you actually prefer the sound of the JTM?
of course you could do what i'd probably end up doing and get both :D
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there are some good attenuators on the market now - thats what I'd do if I was liking the amp's tone, but it was a bit on the loud side.
Here's the Faustine Phantom V-Speaker demo by Pete Thorn...
http://www.youtube.com/user/sinasl1#p/u/17/QIHj2nA-QN4
And the link on Faustine's website...
http://www.faustineamps.com/phantom.html
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Attenuator might be a good option.
I've only used a hotplate but my general opinion on that is anything over the -12dB attenuation starts to sound fizzy and looses low end. -8dB is about as far as you want to go without loosing the amps character, I'd say. using close to max attenuation on those things and cranking the amp up to noon doesn't sound that great.
You're other idea might be to look at a PPIMV. like the Larmar PPIMV. but that's not as easy as just getting an attenuator and it will screw with the presence control a bit and won't give you output valve breakup at a lower volume like an attenuator. It will make it quieter though!
the 1987 has no master volume right?
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if you your looking to move it on, give me a shout
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You could have a tech install a Lar/Mar Mastervolume (=> Metroamp Forum), maybe that would make it more usable. Have him use one of the speaker out jacks, so it's reversable.
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Try less efficient speakers.
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A good attenuator will help for sure.
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Wow, I nip out for an afternoon in the sun and get a load of excellent replies, thanks all.
Looking for an attenuator now.
If I do decide to move it on I'll give you first refusal Horsehead
Hhhmm....an attenuator for the 1987X and a JTM45? And I haven't touched the credit card for ages
Thanks blue, I needed a suggestion like that :lol:
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I used 1 of those amps with a Weber Mass Attenuater for all my rhythm tracks on my bands album about 4 years ago.
Great sounding amp, but as said above, don't try and attenuate to bedroom levels as it'll sound like ass :lol:
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Picked up a nice 4x12 cab recently, been after one for a while.
However it came with a 1987X amp, which I really like. Does a great rock sound is and fantastic for a bit of Clash/Pistols when I'm getting my punk on,but man is it loud.
I'm fortunate that I can do loud at home but this thing is really fkcn loud. In an industrial injury type of way
Does anyone have any kind of experience of how it would sound with an attenuator attached or should I move it on for a 30 watt JTM 45 (classic bluesy rock). There is one fairly local to me at a decent price.
I change my mind every couple of hours.
Here's a dodgy phone pic of it looking the bollocks
I'm loving that picture! All bases covered!!!
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mmmmm plexi, trade ya for a rocker 30
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Here's Pete Thorn demoing (is that even a word? - anyway...) the Faustine. Its the only one I've heard that gets anywhere near the unattenuated tone...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71h7Lv7LKcU
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Man I love those 1987X amps, I've nothing to contribute though, sorry! :lol:
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I'd try a PPIMV first
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After spending the afternoon thrashing the living daylights out of it, checking out YouTubes and pricing attenuators I think I'll try the PPIMV.
Dmoney in what way does it screw with the presence?
Also, if it doesn't give power valve saturation at lower volumes does it still have all that gain when whacked up to 10?
Sorry sgmypod, computer says no
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Lmao
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After spending the afternoon thrashing the living daylights out of it, checking out YouTubes and pricing attenuators I think I'll try the PPIMV.
Dmoney in what way does it screw with the presence?
Also, if it doesn't give power valve saturation at lower volumes does it still have all that gain when whacked up to 10?
Sorry sgmypod, computer says no
Basically, the presence works by taking the output of the amp (tapping it from one of the output transformer secondaries) and feeding it back into the phase inverter 180 degrees out of phase. so when you turn the presence, you mix more or less out of phase high frequencies with your output. more out of phase signal cancels out the high frequencies more and vice versa.
less output = less negative feedback... which is why presence and depth controls can be less responsive at low master volume settings.
The relationship between the phase inverter output, power valve input & output, and feedback is usually fixed. If you add a post phase inverter master volume to lower the volume of the amp, you alter that relationship.
It means you can be driving the PI quite hard by increasing the preamp gain/volume, but the output of the power section can be small (quieter amp), which means you get less negative feedback into the PI, which in turn effects the presence control. Any master volume will effect the feedback for those controls, but a normal Pre-PIMV that you'd find in a JCM800 for example, doesn't sit between the PI and the power valves and doesn't effect the power section the same way.
It's a while since I've used a PPIMV (not the Lar/Mar suggested) but basically, if you turn it right the way down and the preamp all the way up (which is dumb), you can get this sound which is the PI is distorting with no power valve breakup and very little feedback to tame the high frequencies as your presence won't really do anything. As I recall the result can be a bit harsh... BUT... using a PPIMV that way is a bit silly.
Different PPIMV's sound and react differently. The Lar/Mar is detailed in Ken Fishers trainwreck pages. I think It's meant to be the one to go for to really retain the sound of the amp, and I think a lot of Trainwreck enthusiasts opt for this PPIMV in Trainwreck Express clones, since those amps don't have master volumes either. when on '10' the amp should be the same as it is 'stock'.
I've never used the Lar/Mar though, I've used other methods (methods 3 & 1 in the trainwreck pages). Others here may have actual experience of the Lar/Mar. I don't think it will give you power valve breakup and lower volumes like an attenuator would.
what videos did you see?
since this requires modding the amp you should be sure its the way you want to go.
http://home.comcast.net/~jbjdav26/1992/1992%20Dual%20B+%20PPIMV.JPG
http://blueguitar.org/new/schem/trainwreck/the_trainwreck_pages.pdf (page 14 & 24 of the pdf)
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Mr Dmoney.
Thanks for that technical explanation.
I was looking at PPIMV mods on YouTube and came across these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AACt1W7IFs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AACt1W7IFs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDXvKAEqCqo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDXvKAEqCqo&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfgVXE18vHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfgVXE18vHA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40XBZEKqI84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40XBZEKqI84)
I know that you really can't make a properly informed judgement just based on a compressed vid but I need to do something.
As I said I'm constantly changing my mind.
I'll be doing a phone round for the prices of getting one installed, as well as keepng an eye out for attenuators.
I'll be away from home for a month at the end of next week so I'll have a bit of time to decide.
Or come up with more choices to confuse me (part ex on a 5E3 for example)
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oopfh! that last clip sound like a beast! it has a depth mod and some other stuff done to it though.
If you like those a lot then I'd go with the Lar/Mar. I don't think its a hard mod. The biggest decision will be if you want to drill the chassis for the extra control, but like I think Hunter said, you can remove one of the speaker outputs and install it there. That seems to be the suggested method.
http://metroamp.com/wiki/index.php/Lar/Mar_PPI-MV
EDIT: after reading that page on metroamp I have to say I was wrong about who developed the Lar/Mar in that other post.
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Think I agree with DM about the fourth one but check this out as well its class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Mm0NXr0_A&feature=related :D :D :D :D
made me smile anyway......sorry Clyde couldnt resist