Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Denim n Leather on April 23, 2011, 12:59:31 PM
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Don't know why the other thread was removed, I don't think that was necessary. Perhaps a little editing, but outright nuking was a bit extreme, imo.
In any event, the bone picks arrived last night. I only gave them a quick run-through, so a lot more experimentation will be required, but I do have some initial thoughts.
First, some background -- I've used most of the major pick tpes throughout the years, celluloid, nylon, Tortex, thick Dunlop plastic, brass, steel, and Redbear. For acoustic guitar the Redbears are probably the best sounding, but they are absolutely the worst picks to use live -- they literally melt under the heat and pressure of playing a gig. They are also prohibitively expensive and really darken up your tone, so I would advise trying before you plunk down $20 for a single pick which will melt if you expose it to gig levels of sweat/heat.
After a lot of experimentation, I settled back to Fender Premium Celluloid, heavy gauge picks. I like the snap and attack they have, not a fan of their lifespan, howver.
On to the bone picks --
They are very well machined and polished. They are also very thick and inflexible, so if you like doing the celluloid bendy trick, you're out of luck with these.
I spent some time going back and forth between the bone and Fender Preminum Celluloid (I didn't bust out a Redbear for comparison). My subjective impressions are that the bone picks are very comfortable. They don't slide around as much as celluloid in your hand. Tonally, they add a nice, very low-level 'chunk' to the tone, without darkening the top end of the attack like Redbear.
When I went to the Fender, I was immediately struck at how plastic and 2 Dimensional the pick attack sounds in comparison. The tonal differences are definitely more along the lines of feel and the I-definitely-notice-it-but-wonder-if-anyone-else-would variety.
After about 30 minutes of playing with the bone pick, the tonal quality struck me -- It has a sort of organic quality that I've never heard before, even with the Redbear; the attack is very reminiscent of playing a nylon string guitar with your finger nails, in fact. Not exactly that sound, of course, but if you've ever played classical guitar, you know the tone -- it's round, it has a beautifully muted midrange, full bass and lots of resonance. In comparison, the Fender is simply 'plak, plak, plak' sounding -- very thin and insubstantial in comparison.
As I experiment further, I will post more.
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That's very interesting.
I've found the same as you with Redbear (the darkening, not the melting part - you must be one hot guitarist!! :lol:). I quite liked the Redbear, but I've never actually used one on a recording - I always seemed to want more top end and so switched to my more usual Dunlop (nylon or tortex, depending on what I need).
So this post makes me think mebbe I might like the bone picks.
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HA! Not hot, just sweaty! At gigs, I swear I'm going to melt. Moisture breaks down the Redbear's plant fibre, which is why they melt.
I may try to make a recording comparing the Redbear/bone/celluloid, but dunno how it will translate. I do know that if I cut a track using the Redbear that I have to EQ the guitar to compensate for the darkness, so maybe it will translate ... maybe not.
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Thanks for the report. Given your initial findings, these are of interest to me. One thing I'm concerned about that will only show with time is wear.
If you do do the clips, please dont eq for the redbear! Wanna see what its going to sound like on the same settings, what the pick really does!
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I still use plastic ones. Pink ones.
Sometimes I like the green ones.
Depends which one I pick up first really.
I think the green ones sound better. Although I could be wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
:)
Indeed
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whether the improvement is in your ears only is basically all that counts in the end. :D
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whether the improvement is in your ears only is basically all that counts in the end. :D
:lol: I'd agree with that.
I choose a pick (from the little pile on hand) more for "feel". I never really considered tone that much until I was recording one day and I couldn't get the tone I wanted for a part. I was using a Redbear that day, it felt nice. But no amount of fiddling with the settings was getting me the bite I wanted without adding some fizz I didn't want. Then I tried different picks with the same settings - BKP picks did it better, but the good old Dunlop Nylon .88s I always used to use in gigs years ago turned out to be perfect...
After that I went out and bought a load of the .88s again, plus some (Dunlop Tortex) yellow ones and green ones and red ones (I used all of these regularly over the years before the Nylon .88s).
Ever since then I make sure there is one of each in a playable state (plus an old sixpence, various BKP thicknesses, and the Redbear) ready on the "pick and slide" stand...
On most days, I'm a bit like Frank - I like the one I pick up first :lol:. It's only when the tone doesn't seem to be working that I start experimenting with the other options. (Bear in mind that I do use fingers an awful lot though, even when there's a pick in my hand...)
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Unicorn horn has the best tone :D
Joking aside I do like thick picks that are made of a hard material.
These guys make nice picks
http://www.dugainpicks.com/
I like the stone ones, they have a really smooth glassy sound. But at a tenner a go it's a bit too much to end up in the tumble drier or the plectrum ether.
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whether the improvement is in your ears only is basically all that counts in the end. :D
Well, just because its in your ears doesnt mean its necessarily in anyone elses!
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whether the improvement is in your ears only is basically all that counts in the end. :D
Well, just because its in your ears doesnt mean its necessarily in anyone elses!
Didn't say it was....just said the players ears are the only one that counts. If they find they hear a difference and it makes them happy...who gives a hoot what anyone else hears, thinks, or can prove to be fact or fiction.
Its all about what makes you :guitar4:
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If they find they hear a difference and it makes them happy...who gives a hoot what anyone else hears, thinks, or can prove to be fact or fiction.
Its all about what makes you :guitar4:
+1
Well said friend.
If you feel it, you feel it and even if the pick itself in reality doesnīt make a sound difference, the feel will influence your playing and therefore your sound.
If you like the pic for any reason at all, even if you just love the color and it sets you in, for example a psychodelic mood, it can positivly influence your playing.
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whether the improvement is in your ears only is basically all that counts in the end. :D
Well, just because its in your ears doesnt mean its necessarily in anyone elses!
Didn't say it was....just said the players ears are the only one that counts. If they find they hear a difference and it makes them happy...who gives a hoot what anyone else hears, thinks, or can prove to be fact or fiction.
Its all about what makes you :guitar4:
Yeah, well, theres that; true enough.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw
One of my favorite guitarists...
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On Day 4, and still lovin the bone picks ...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw
One of my favorite guitarists...
my favourite bass player
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cool,
I might have to give em a try...too bad the info for purchasing was nuked..
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cool,
I might have to give em a try...too bad the info for purchasing was nuked..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110463782123&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
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I already send him the Email adress of the guy selling them, should get him a better price or some other pics for free^^
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I've got some on the way
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Thanks Ben & Kiichi
Appreciate it!
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They arrived today.
I must agree they do add a great edge to the sound even with my TSL.
My only issue with them is the fact that they are massive, I can deal with the thickness but the actual size will take a little getting used to.
The first thing i noticed is that pinch harmonics really leap out that bit more with these than they seem to with regular celluloid picks
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Mine arrived today as well.
My first impression: They are huge. Biggest pics in my collection (not thickest, biggest). I usually play with those tiny jazz pics so that is a huge problem, at least for now.
They do add something to sound, but, and that may be to my holding it wrong, some bad overtones which I really donīt like in higher single notes, but for powerchords they seem really great.
My favorite from the other ones I got send is the really dark wood, I guess ebony. That just seems kinda right.
I now have 19 different pics (different materials, shapes, sizes, bevels and thicknesses) and I think itīs time for a little comparison. Really make a wide array of samples to get some real comparison and in the end perhaps a result with some weight.
Problem is: When I put 19 samples back to back in the one order it is hard to compare them properly.
So how should I arrange the audio files to allow the you to properly compare them like you want? Any suggestions?
Maybe I can confortably upload them somewhere so they play at a click in the order you chose?
Maybe like a big page of sound samples like the BKP samples?
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yeah they are huge but after playing for a bit i got used to it i usually use the small picks too.
i think the best way would be to just do a long file changing between them with comment markers on soundcloud
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So do these shed, or are they hard wearing?
I'm finding the V-picks don't really have enough life in them, although they're better than ultex...
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I bought some new plastic ones today. Pink ones and green ones again. I thought about buying the blue ones but they don't really match my skin tone.
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So do these shed, or are they hard wearing?
I'm finding the V-picks don't really have enough life in them, although they're better than ultex...
So far i have been playing with one of these since mid week for about 4-5 hours a day playing general thrashy stuff and it has absolutely no sign of wear whatsoever
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No sign of wear on mine and I've been putting in a couple hrs/day on mine. I woulda went through 10 celluloids by now.
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This is encouraging. Wear is my number one problem with most picks.
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This is encouraging. Wear is my number one problem with most picks.
Some ppl are fine with playing a pick with a worn edge. Personally, it drives me batty!
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This is encouraging. Wear is my number one problem with most picks.
Some ppl are fine with playing a pick with a worn edge. Personally, it drives me batty!
Me too. I like my picks pointy. Once the point is rounded, they get flung. Takes between 10 minutes ('carbon nylon' shite) and a bit more than an hour (ultex), depending on the pick
But I'm holding off on these, since I just got 72 tortex jazzes for 17 quid (thomann). They get about 45 min to an hour each. Makes more sense for that than the same price for one pick, especially since I know I like them, so long as they're pointy.
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You lot have a memory like a sieve. Especially the supposedly more intelligent of you.
For old blunted plectrums I refer you to an earlier post by the cleverest chap here - aherm - http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20257.msg273991#msg273991
Also a video just in case you're thick. ;)
http://youtu.be/zyYKT0SzrBo