Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: braintheory on May 06, 2011, 08:19:06 PM
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What's the tightest pickup you've ever played? I'm not actually looking for such a pickup, I just wanted to know out of curiosity. For me it would be the Aftermath and the Sinner, but I also remember the Bill Lawrence 500XL that came stock in my dean was also super tight. I also heard that the new Black Hawk is supposed to be tighter than the aftermath and the clips of the Lundgren M6 that I've heard sound ridiculously tight too.
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I started a thread on a similar subject recently so I'm curious - what exactly does 'tight' mean to you ? I have Rebel Yells that some describe as tight - have you heard them and would you agree ?
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From bkp probably the AM or MM
but overall winner on tightness goes to the emg81 by a long shot shame it doesnt have the dynamics etc of the above listed bkps
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EMG 81.
Aftermath from BK. Not played a blackhawk or M6/7/8. Have played most other candidates for 'ultra tight pickup' though, inc L500XL, and have generally been unimpressed. I loves me a tight tone: my main guitars have aftermaths and 81s in their bridges (2 of each).
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EMG81.
The second tightest would be the DiMarzio D-Sonic with the blade to the bridge.
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What about the seymour duncan blackout, dimebucker, or dimarzio x2n?
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ABH1 is no tighter than an aftermath. About on a par, maybe even a little looser. The dimebucker is a poor mans 500xl, and the x2n isnt so much tight as it is just incredibly bright; dial up the low end and its quite unremarkable in the tightness department (though similar can be said of the dime pickups).
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what about the EMTY blackout (mick thompson model)
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'Tight' is something I used to think I wanted until I realised that what I really wanted was articulation. The tightest pickup I've ever played would have to be an EMG 81 - it just wasn't for me at all. The tightest pickup I've ever owned would be the A-Bomb, albeit I didn't own it for long. Both of these pickups were just too tight and too aggressive for me whereas pickups like the Holydiver, Miracle Man and Cold Sweat were more acceptable.
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An EMG 81 is tighter than a Blackout 1. I think both work well when tuning low. The 81 is a great pick up.
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Id also like to add the Entwistle HDN to this list.
Super cheap. Sounds great and is the tighest passive pickup i've played to date.
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That Entwhistle sounds very intriguing and at that price I should probably try it one of my guitars. The only other pickup I know about with a neodymium magnet is the q tuner pickups, which I'm also very curious about.
Also, in case anyone is curious, I now have guitars loaded with black hawks and lundgren m6 and another with an emg 81. Like everyone said the emg 81 is definitely the tightest pickup I've ever played (tighter than the aftermath), the black hawk is similarly tight to the miracle man, and the lundgren is considerably looser, but still sufficiently tight and very articulate. Also, the sinner is definitely not as tight as the aftermath (like I said earlier) or even the miracle man.
I guess the only other contenders are the EMTY blackouts and possibly something with neodymium magnets. I've only tried the regular blackouts and they were looser than the emg 81 and also darker, smoother, less aggressive, and IMO not as good.
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I've only tried the regular blackouts and they were looser than the emg 81 and also darker, smoother, less aggressive, and IMO not as good.
This was pretty much my finding with the AHB1 blackouts. The mustaine livewires are almost as tight as emg 81. So is the HDN. However theyre both thicker in the lower mids.
I've also found recently that the EMG JH set is pretty much as tight as the 81/60 but has a bit more bite and midrange aggression. Snarlier so to speak.
Oh and another one worth mentioning is the SD distortion. I'd say it's somewhere inbetween the aftermath and EMGs but it has this weirdness going on in the high end that is bugging me.
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I found the Alnico Nailbomb to be one of the tightest pickups I've tried. Its very clean so that might be a big factor.
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I've only tried the regular blackouts and they were looser than the emg 81 and also darker, smoother, less aggressive, and IMO not as good.
This was pretty much my finding with the AHB1 blackouts. The mustaine livewires are almost as tight as emg 81. So is the HDN. However theyre both thicker in the lower mids.
I've also found recently that the EMG JH set is pretty much as tight as the 81/60 but has a bit more bite and midrange aggression. Snarlier so to speak.
Oh and another one worth mentioning is the SD distortion. I'd say it's somewhere inbetween the aftermath and EMGs but it has this weirdness going on in the high end that is bugging me.
I'm surprised that you found the live wires to be so tight. I've never tried them, but they have alnico V magnets rather ceramics, and everything I've read about them suggest that they sound like a hotter JB and not that tight. Also, the EMTY blackout has alnico V as well, but they were designed to be tighter than the regular blackouts, which are ceramic, so it would be interesting to find out how they compare to emg's.
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I've had a guitar with emg 81 and emty blackout, only the neck model of the emty set is alnico, iirc bridge is ceramic. 81 is definitely tighter, emty feels higher output with more bass, still tight but not as tight as 81. My other guitarist has AMs, they're crazy tight. Emerald BKP deserves an honourable mention, a different voice from most other pickups mentioned but plenty tight.
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I've only tried the regular blackouts and they were looser than the emg 81 and also darker, smoother, less aggressive, and IMO not as good.
This was pretty much my finding with the AHB1 blackouts. The mustaine livewires are almost as tight as emg 81. So is the HDN. However theyre both thicker in the lower mids.
I've also found recently that the EMG JH set is pretty much as tight as the 81/60 but has a bit more bite and midrange aggression. Snarlier so to speak.
Oh and another one worth mentioning is the SD distortion. I'd say it's somewhere inbetween the aftermath and EMGs but it has this weirdness going on in the high end that is bugging me.
I'm surprised that you found the live wires to be so tight. I've never tried them, but they have alnico V magnets rather ceramics, and everything I've read about them suggest that they sound like a hotter JB and not that tight. Also, the EMTY blackout has alnico V as well, but they were designed to be tighter than the regular blackouts, which are ceramic, so it would be interesting to find out how they compare to emg's.
I think with the DM livewires they may have just seemed really tight with my specific amp that is very midrange based and the livewires really smash the mids which can give the impression of tightness in one setting where if you say try them with another amp they could seem pretty loose.
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The tightest pickup is the one where you cut all the bass with an EQ pedal. Also known as a castrated sound. :D
The question really needs to be whether a supertight sound is desired? I think a bit of looseness/lively response is needed to keep things sounding fat, punchy and not overly artificial. I think that balance is wonderfully met in the Miracle Man.
I mentioned the DiMarzio D-Sonic. It's so tight and clear I felt is sounded very artificial. It's clean sound actually reminded me of a parallel wired pickup.
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My experience with the entwistle HDN agrees with tonys. Tightest passive pickup, quite easily. Not too far behind an 81 actually.
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Now I really wanna try these HDN's and the q-tuners as well.
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The tightest pickup is the one where you cut all the bass with an EQ pedal. Also known as a castrated sound. :D
The question really needs to be whether a supertight sound is desired? I think a bit of looseness/lively response is needed to keep things sounding fat, punchy and not overly artificial. I think that balance is wonderfully met in the Miracle Man.
This is the way I think about it. Tight is good up to a point, and after that it's no fun. EMGs are definitely boring but very tight pickups, played by death metal guys with whole racks of digital effects.
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The tightest pickup is the one where you cut all the bass with an EQ pedal. Also known as a castrated sound. :D
The question really needs to be whether a supertight sound is desired? I think a bit of looseness/lively response is needed to keep things sounding fat, punchy and not overly artificial. I think that balance is wonderfully met in the Miracle Man.
This is the way I think about it. Tight is good up to a point, and after that it's no fun. EMGs are definitely boring but very tight pickups, played by death metal guys with whole racks of digital effects.
Tell yourself that. There are very few death metal guys with 'a whole rack of digital effects'.
The guitars in death metal are by and large some of the most dry, if not the driest out there.
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What about the Entwistle Dark Star ND (neodymium magnet just like the HDN)? According to the spec chart the dark star ND should also have more highs and lows than the HDN.
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The tightest pickup is the one where you cut all the bass with an EQ pedal. Also known as a castrated sound. :D
The question really needs to be whether a supertight sound is desired? I think a bit of looseness/lively response is needed to keep things sounding fat, punchy and not overly artificial. I think that balance is wonderfully met in the Miracle Man.
I mentioned the DiMarzio D-Sonic. It's so tight and clear I felt is sounded very artificial. It's clean sound actually reminded me of a parallel wired pickup.
+1
Tightness is great but in my experience, it kills the tone I'm after if you take it too far. The Miracle Man is plenty tight enough for me. I wouldn't want a pickup that was much tighter than that but it's personal preference.
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What about the Entwistle Dark Star ND (neodymium magnet just like the HDN)? According to the spec chart the dark star ND should also have more highs and lows than the HDN.
Its pretty similar just hotter and as you said hotter with more lows. Its not quite as tight but is still pretty tight.
The entwistle neo pickups are all very hot though. Id say equal with emgs on the output level.
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I just ordered a HDN bridge pickup. I just couldn't help myself :lol: The final price (with shipping and everything) was only about $31 USD. It seems too good and too cheap to be true!
I think I'll probably put the HDN in my Jackson SL2H, which currently has Black Hawks (ceramic version). Do you guys think the HDN will be a good fit for the Jackson? Acoustically the Jackson sounds a bit flat and lacking in punch, but not dark perse.
Also, the Black Hawk is great, but too polite and polished sounding for my tastes (definitely way less raw and less aggressive than my Miracle Man or Aftermath equipped guitars). I could see though why the Black Hawk could work well for prog and fusion stuff.
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The question really needs to be whether a supertight sound is desired? I think a bit of looseness/lively response is needed to keep things sounding fat, punchy and not overly artificial.
I fully agree. It's also a matter of guitar and amp set up. If you have a rather unforgiving guitar you may not reallly want a super tight pickup.
I think that balance is wonderfully met in the Miracle Man.
I also agree with that statement.
Cheers Stephan
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This alnico Nailbomb is about right for me. Plenty tighter than the 498T, enough to demand that I improve my right hand technique, but not so tight that the punkish sound I like is lost.
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Tell yourself that. There are very few death metal guys with 'a whole rack of digital effects'.
Absolute BS, most death metal bands these days lean to the deathcore/technical side, and always have G-Major type rack units over pedals for even just delay for their solos. Obscura, Necrophagist, Arkaik, Deeds of Flesh, Decrepit Birth etc all tour/toured with racks.
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Well that's what I thought. All of the established ones on my local scene have those rack units with EMGs in their guitars, and most of the ones I've seen from interstate do too (often I am not close enough to the rigs of international bands to see exactly what they have), so I've long assumed it to be pervasive, since around 1996 at least. But then what would I know? I've only been around the scene since the late '80s.
Of course there are those who pursue 'old school' sounds from the '88-'92 period, and they have quite different set-ups, but then again they are the least likely to use active pickups too. A lot of '80s players had the attitude that active pickups were something that was good for bass, but not for the guitar.
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Sorry to mention another pick-up, but what about the Rock Monkey Neo-Bucker (also uses a neodymium magnet)?
Neodymium pickups seem like they could be awesome and am really looking forward to the HDN that I ordered, so I can finally hear what a neodymium pickup sounds like. I wonder how tight an emg (or other active pickups) would be if they used neodymium instead of ceramic magnets.
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I just got the HDN's installed and so far I'm very impressed. They replaced an aftermath bridge and painkiller neck in my Dean CFH. Like everyone said the HDN is the tightest passive I've played, but I compared it side by side with the EMG 81 in my Schecter Damien Elite and the EMG 81 is still considerably tighter and the chugs were thicker with the EMG 81.
I like the HDN so far way better than the aftermath. It's tighter, more open (but this could be due to the pu height, which I haven't tweaked yet), more aggressive, more and sharper highs. The HDN's also clean up beautifully. I haven't played around with the neck that much yet for high gain, but I'm impressed with the little bit I have. Again I still haven't tweaked the pole pieces or pu height yet, so my opinion may change later.
I'm starting to think that neodynium magnets do what the ceramic pu's do even better. I might experiment in the future with having neodynium magnets in my miracle man and lundgren.
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Tell yourself that. There are very few death metal guys with 'a whole rack of digital effects'.
Absolute BS, most death metal bands these days lean to the deathcore/technical side, and always have G-Major type rack units over pedals for even just delay for their solos. Obscura, Necrophagist, Arkaik, Deeds of Flesh, Decrepit Birth etc all tour/toured with racks.
Case of misinterpretation on all counts I think, and you already said it: The solos, yes, even if not much. Ownership of rack units, sure. Extensive use of effects in rhythm sounds (which was the implication in the post I replied to), no.
Brain: Yeah, the HDN is a great pickup. My main electrics are currently 81-60, 81-85, AM-2xtrilogy, HDN set. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I prefer the HDN to the aftermath as well.
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I find that the HDN is extremely guitar sensitive. In basswood it's not so much tight as insanely bright but in mahogany and alder theyre crushingly tight.
But as has been said not quite as tight as the 81.
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I'm starting to think that neodynium magnets do what the ceramic pu's do even better. I might experiment in the future with having neodynium magnets in my miracle man and lundgren.
Be VERY careful wth this. The HDN has a pretty low wind with thin magnets due to the strength of neo mags. In certain pickups you will get a completely overkill & overhyped sound.
I tried it in an Iron Gear hot slag and a duncan JB. It sounded as if there were two overdrives in front of the amp with insanely tight lows that were massive. It was fun for a while but kind of unusable with how saturated it was.
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That's good to know. I wasn't actually that serious about putting neodynium magnets in those pickups. Didn't you though have neodynium magnets in a nailbomb or was that someone else on this forum?
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That's good to know. I wasn't actually that serious about putting neodynium magnets in those pickups. Didn't you though have neodynium magnets in a nailbomb or was that someone else on this forum?
Yes I did. It worked well in the nailbomb. It was very tight and precise. I did have to run the pickup very far from the strings though but it sounded great.
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According to the spec chart the dark star ND should also have more highs and lows than the HDN.
Where do you found spec chart? I'm afraid in the 'official' data on Entwistle web page there's no such information.
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According to the spec chart the dark star ND should also have more highs and lows than the HDN.
Where do you found spec chart? I'm afraid in the 'official' data on Entwistle web page there's no such information.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENTWISTLE-HDN-GUITAR-HUMBUCKER-SET-SEYMOUR-GREAT-/141034267460?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20d64c2344 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENTWISTLE-HDN-GUITAR-HUMBUCKER-SET-SEYMOUR-GREAT-/141034267460?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20d64c2344)
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENTWISTLE-HDN-GUITAR-HUMBUCKER-SET-SEYMOUR-GREAT-/141034267460?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20d64c2344 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENTWISTLE-HDN-GUITAR-HUMBUCKER-SET-SEYMOUR-GREAT-/141034267460?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20d64c2344)
I've seen that, but since this is not from official web page, or at least from authorised distributor, who knows if it's true.
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I'm now also interested in the Entwistle Nemesis AFG because it's the only pickup I know that uses a combination of ceramic and alnico magnets. Does any other pickup maker do this? How does the Nemesis compare to the HDN or other pickups that we'd be familiar with?
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Brain: Yeah, the HDN is a great pickup. My main electrics are currently 81-60, 81-85, AM-2xtrilogy, HDN set. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I prefer the HDN to the aftermath as well.
I'm curious, what strengths do the Aftermath's have that the HDN's don't? I've had the HDN's for over a month now and I still don't miss the Aftermath's at all. However, if I had to choose between the EMG 81 and HDN, I would choose the EMG 81, but luckily I don't.
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I'm now also interested in the Entwistle Nemesis AFG because it's the only pickup I know that uses a combination of ceramic and alnico magnets. Does any other pickup maker do this? How does the Nemesis compare to the HDN or other pickups that we'd be familiar with?
I think Gibson Tony Iommi signature pickups are also with mixed alnico/ceramic magnets.
I have tried some Entwistle pickups in Ibanez RG270 and Epiphone Explorer. In Ibanez, I first replaced stock Powersound humbuckers with Entwistle X2, which gave brighter sound, but still not what I was looking for. Then I tried for a short moment Nemesis (ceramic only magnet), but I didn't hear much difference. But I immediately fell in love with HDN sound so I installed a set of HDN's plus XS62N middle single coil. The sound is warm in a similar manner to classic PAF-like humbuckers, but has much more power. The sound is not very sharp (treble-rich) but is good both clean and overdriven. To my ear, the output of XS62N is higher than of HDN in split coil mode.
Now, I'm looking for something cheap but good-sounding for Explorer. The stock Epi Alnico Classic Plus sound nice, but lack some power. On the other hand, Epi Alnico Classics (non-pro) taken from Epi LP Studio are a bit muddy, maybe they have enough power but at the cost of clarity and, to my needs, lack some top end. I tried Tesla Plasma-3, high power, but even less treble, so I probably won't keep them.
In this Explorer I tried Entwistle X2 and ceramic-only Nemesis. The sound is cold, slightly soul-less, but has enough power and top end that I need. Nemesis has more treble. Now I'm going to try Nemesis AFG with mixed alnico/ceramic magnets, Dark Star ND, and, for comparison, "Artec Alnico V humbucker", whatever it is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111075420202?var=410177402886&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111075420202?var=410177402886&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
If you know what to expect, please let me know before it arrives.
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I'm now also interested in the Entwistle Nemesis AFG because it's the only pickup I know that uses a combination of ceramic and alnico magnets. Does any other pickup maker do this? How does the Nemesis compare to the HDN or other pickups that we'd be familiar with?
bulldog have a model called the dropzone that has alnico and ceramic mix
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I'm now also interested in the Entwistle Nemesis AFG because it's the only pickup I know that uses a combination of ceramic and alnico magnets. Does any other pickup maker do this? How does the Nemesis compare to the HDN or other pickups that we'd be familiar with?
bulldog have a model called the dropzone that has alnico and ceramic mix
What's that sound like? How's it compare to the Nemesis? Also, not to be rude, but aren't bulldog pickups like a poor man's bkp?
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I'm now also interested in the Entwistle Nemesis AFG because it's the only pickup I know that uses a combination of ceramic and alnico magnets. Does any other pickup maker do this? How does the Nemesis compare to the HDN or other pickups that we'd be familiar with?
bulldog have a model called the dropzone that has alnico and ceramic mix
What's that sound like? How's it compare to the Nemesis? Also, not to be rude, but aren't bulldog pickups like a poor man's bkp?
To be fair I haven't tried either as i cannot stand bridge pickups with alnico magnets theyre just too loose and flabby for me.
With regards to the Bulldogs. You could look at them that way i guess or you could take notice that they only have one model that anywhere near resembles a BKP sonically and that's the Black Label which is actually a bit tighter with a more cohesive high & low end.
Another thing worth noting about bulldogs that I really like is the packaging and the free inclusion of PIO caps with every pickup.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Pickups/Bulldog%20Extremist/2013-05-01%2019.29.10.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Pickups/Bulldog%20Extremist/2013-05-01%2019.29.28.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Pickups/Bulldog%20Extremist/2013-05-01%2019.30.09.jpg)
I'd say they're definitely worth checking out. Different enough from BKPs and they do have a very distinct & unique focused core sound amongst the various models. I also like the experimentation they do and the fact that they do 100% custom winds and keep rewinding any pickup for you until you are 100% happy.
I believe currently they're experimenting with rare earth magnets.
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Also, not to be rude, but aren't bulldog pickups like a poor man's bkp?
How can an 80 GPB pickup be poor man's? ;)
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Was there not once an analogy about Tims pub thrown around here?
I mean discussing different PUs is all well and good, but this seems to be crossing the line a bit. After all this is the BKP forum and out of respect for Tim I would respectfully suggest to not more or less advertise competetion here.
EMGs are one thing, active and passive and all that, but I would like you to think about the rest.
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Was there not once an analogy about Tims pub thrown around here?
I mean discussing different PUs is all well and good, but this seems to be crossing the line a bit. After all this is the BKP forum and out of respect for Tim I would respectfully suggest to not more or less advertise competetion here.
EMGs are one thing, active and passive and all that, but I would like you to think about the rest.
For starters nobody is advertising anything just pointing a few things out.
and secondly BKP do not make any neodymium or hybrid magnet pickups therefore your EMG point applies to this very discussion.
And finally have you seen the amount of talk about BKPs on the EMG & Seymour Duncan forums? It's a message board people have are free to say what they like just so long as it is not offensive to others.
If Tim specifically stated no talking about other pickups ever that would be a totally different thing. But he hasn't and we are discussing things that are completely different to BKPs here anyway. Also it seems fine to talk about pickups from other manufacturers when people are slating them or is that just the way of the world?
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Anyone tried Railhammers? The videos are kind of lame, they use a Metal Muff all the time, but I'm wondering if anyone has some personal experience of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9R8nC463BY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9R8nC463BY)
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Brain: Yeah, the HDN is a great pickup. My main electrics are currently 81-60, 81-85, AM-2xtrilogy, HDN set. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I prefer the HDN to the aftermath as well.
I'm curious, what strengths do the Aftermath's have that the HDN's don't? I've had the HDN's for over a month now and I still don't miss the Aftermath's at all. However, if I had to choose between the EMG 81 and HDN, I would choose the EMG 81, but luckily I don't.
The aftermath has a certain grind in the upper end of the mids and and lower end of the upper mids that I (still) like from time to time. The HDN and 81 are both smoother in the midrange. It gives it a voicing thats aggressive at a lower output.