Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: fatbob on January 11, 2006, 09:15:26 PM
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Hello fellow BKPers, just after a hand count on my options.
Right, I've got a Parker "Nightfly" which i just don't seem to pick up any more (especially since fitting Blackdogs to my Ibanez SZ). I have been thinking about BKPing the "fly", but I am also toying with the idea of selling it and buying an Epi Sheraton/335 or Ibanez equivalent, and BKPing that.
Something is telling me not to sell it 'cos it's the last of my "quality american" guitars. (used to own USA Strats, Les Pauls, BC Rich's, Jacko's) as well as a couple of Eggle's.
Should I expand my Korean collection of Ibanez' at the expense of having something that holds it's value?
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I've never tried parker, but my MIJ ibanez rg470 is noticeably better quality (in workmanship etc.) than the current korean ibanezes (EDIT: that i've tried: sz320, rg321mh, s470), and my rg was only £400 (5 years ago, to be fair)!
I'd hang onto the parker, and BKP it, unless you hate how it plays or something.
I know i'd rather have fewer quality guitars, than loads of average ones.
I haven't tried that many korean guitars, though, so i may just have tried "bad" ones.
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I've got an Epi Sheraton. Think it was made in Korea in 93. Production moves around from year to year so you most likely can't assume the quality stays the same.
I put Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers in my Sheraton and it sounds great. It plays good but sounds great.
I agree with dave_mc, I'd rather have a few great guitar rather than lots of average ones. I got the Sheraton as as it was cheap second hand. One day I'll try a real 335 and if it's better I'll dump the Sheraton but 1st I need to get a Martin 000-28 and a PRS and...
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I think you can assume that the higher priced Korean made guitars will wipe the floor with the cheap US ones (i.e. SG Special).
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I think you can assume that the higher priced Korean made guitars will wipe the floor with the cheap US ones (i.e. SG Special).
probably, but i wouldn't call a parker nightfly "cheap US".
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I think you can assume that the higher priced Korean made guitars will wipe the floor with the cheap US ones (i.e. SG Special).
Don't agree with you there. My son has a Gibson SG Special and it's ace. I had A Gordon Smith GS-2. I sold it when he got the SG as it was so much better than the GS. But then I've not tried a high price Korean guitar....
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I would say (in my limited experience, although more with basses) it depends on the individual guitar.
I have picked up some US made products which SUCK (quality control, especially with vehicles!!!!!!!! grrrrrrrrr) can be non existant in the US.
I just bought a Japanese Jackson Soloist SL4, and (apart from last owner misuse) it is gorgeous, wonderfully made and sings!
Just like buying a Les Paul really, every guitar is different and sweeping statements cannot be made. Really have to play it. Snobbery is silly silly. Sure pro.s use the best stuff but it is usually hand picked and FREE! Us average joes need to play an instrument and if it talks to us and plays well, who cares who made it :)
Nick
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I think you can assume that the higher priced Korean made guitars will wipe the floor with the cheap US ones (i.e. SG Special).
Don't agree with you there. My son has a Gibson SG Special and it's ace. I had A Gordon Smith GS-2. I sold it when he got the SG as it was so much better than the GS. But then I've not tried a high price Korean guitar....
since you haven't played a higher priced korean, you can't really disagree, yet :)
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Well I can say for certain that MY Nightfly is made to the highest standards. But my Korean Ibanez 320mh is as well. But if your not playing a guitar, is it really worth keeping it, no matter of it's quality? I cant put my SZ320 down (think it might be the oil finish, I dont like glossy necks, thats the main reason the LP went) And with my Rush obsession, a 335/sheraton feels like a good idea.
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^it sounds like you've already made up your mind, and it's not for us to say anything, but...
I'd slap th black dogs into the parker, and see how that makes you feel about it. If that doesn't make you want to keep it/play it, i doubt anything will...
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Well I can say for certain that MY Nightfly is made to the highest standards. But my Korean Ibanez 320mh is as well. But if your not playing a guitar, is it really worth keeping it, no matter of it's quality? I cant put my SZ320 down (think it might be the oil finish, I dont like glossy necks, thats the main reason the LP went) And with my Rush obsession, a 335/sheraton feels like a good idea.
Personaly I'd have just shaved or refinished (in satin) the neck on that LP.
At the end of the day though, as long as you play a lot of guitars, you'll find some good eastern ones. Not all of them will be good mind, but some will, it's worth sniffing them out too. Conversely, some American guitars really don't quite cut it for what they cost, which is part of the reason I put a Fender style guitar together on my own with parts souced from various companies.
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I agree almost completely with dakine. Its all about the individual guitars.
With the exception of frets. Frets are something of a concern for me, with playing hard and bending a lot, I like hard frets, and the soft wire (used because its easier to machine) on even many high end japanese models shows wear within a year or two. My jackson DX1, which comparing to many other MIJ and MIA jacksons I think I lucked out on in terms of wood tone and build quality forced me to learn to fret dress in about 2 years! And I've given it one more since (6 years old now, less wear because I now have more guitars and play it less).
I've refretted a cheaper guitar of mine with 18% nickel (the hardest wire you can get short of stainless steel) and the wire was much tougher: it hasnt been long since I did it (about 2 yaears ago) but I'd guess it has about twice the longevity from how much tougher it was to crown the frets. That guitars shown no noticable wear since I did the refret, but I dont play it that much.
The 18% nickel is used in US and british stuff is quite a lot harder, and you end up doing less fret dresses and will probably never refret. To me, thats quite a big deal. A guitar with uneven frets just doesnt setup well: you're always fighting buzz.
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Don't the Parker's already come with stainless steel frets? I thought they were the first mass market guitars with them. I certainly didn't mean you could easily compare the Parker with a Korean guitar - the construction is very difficult which means it probably couldn't be churned out.
What I meant about the SG Special is the quality of the lacquer etc. The Special doesn't have the same quality of finish that the higher end models have.
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Yeah, I think the top end parkers have SS frets. Dunno about the cheaper ones.
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The only thing about buying Korean or Jap is that you're lining other countrys pockets - that pay 12 year old kids 20p a week. Buy British or American, hand made if you can. i aint giving my money to those people.
Look at PRS - they used to be hand made, the trouble now is they are ALL machine made (unless you pay silly £ for custom) but charge hand made prices. they are shite. they just look flashy with there maple caps, but seriously, they are no better than some £400 Ibanez. i dont see how they can charge £4-5000 grand up for that piece of shitee. its only made of wood. they stopped making good giutars after 95. If you like Ibanez fine but think about where you're money is going. i also dont see how some cheap inport can warrant £999.00 price tags???? Sorry - rants.
I fully support people like Tim and his crew who make quality products on our own soil.
Another interesting point is: would you buy an Ibinhad or whatever if Satriani or some other cool indorsee didnt use it?
Buy British or buy American.
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Or buy Japanese on that point Spook Fish!
I have to say, I've played lots of Korean guitars. They're great for the money, perfectly playable, and very well made in the case of Brian Moore. But they lack mojo, that quality that just make you want to keep playing. It's probably down to some of the very slight imperfections you see on US and UK guitars. The Far Eastern boys have production guitar making sussed.
Having said that my old Ibanez Japan guitars sound and feel good. Especially my RT after I took the finish off the neck and had 6000 gauge frets installed, it plays and feels as good as my old (handmade) PRS.
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Hello!
you are right they have it sussed, on big automated machines. i was enticed once by an Ibanez that was about £325 and seemed very well made for the cash. bookmatched maple top, solid mohogony body & Neck, great style bridge and SD copy pups. well worth £325, but i couldnt bring myself to buy it. I'm no snob at all, I've got home made strats and Gibson dot Jap copy (given to me) and i like it alot. flawless binding and the neck is great.
dont you feel they charge too much? i know USA are very expensive but those lot cant touch Jet, Quicksilver, Heritage or USA BC Rich - Dean & Burns for design.
Those guys just copy everything. and you know they get kids to build em or some explioted women.
i nearly always play a Heritage H140cm, and there aint no jap or korean guitar can touch it. those guys make 6 guitars a day in Kalamazoo MI. Premium woods and harware. Old Gibson employees making better guitars than Gibson, and not commanding rediculous amounts of money.
best grand i ever spent - hopefully be putting Bare Knuckle crawlers in it when i get bored of the HRW ones that came stock.
** i dont have anything against Japs or koreans** :-)
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^ ^ i disagree with your comments regarding lining other people's pockets, spookfish.
I have a german engl amp. I bought it because it beat the living cr@p out of british made marshalls (laneys were nice, but engl still was better).
I prefer (japanese-made) ibanez guitars. Also, Japan (afaik) doesn't run sweatshops. Would i play them if satch, vai or gilbert didn't endorse them? Yes- they use dimarzio pickups, and i have swinesheads (and fully intend to get BK's in the near future).
Bottom line, i'll buy what does what i want it to- nomatter where it's made. Luckily BK and SH are British, but if they were swedish, i'd buy from them too. Stupid, illogical arguments like "buy british or american, nomatter what" allows our own manufacturers to make substandard cr@p, and expect us to buy it. And charge ridiculous prices too.
I agree with HJM that the korean ones don't have the "mojo", but the japanese Ibanez most certainly do, IMO.
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I've had a couple of Korean guitars; epi explorer, DeArmond M77T. I have to say they both had mojo. The Chinese Dean Psychobilly I have has tons of mojo. Strangely enough, the Gibbo LP I had......no mojo.
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If Japan hadn't started churning out top notch gear the big names would've never had to clean their acts up after that rough patch they seem to have had in the 70's and 80's.
As for sweatshops, I'm pretty sure most places don't use them. They pay them less, but they can live on less in these places as well don't forget. A few quid goes a lot further in Korea than it will here in ol blighty.
My guitar's made in america, pickups and amp in the UK, but as others have said that's just how it happened. I didn't chose because of where they're from, and I've been toying with the idea of getting a Trussart guitar, and I think they're from somewhere like France?
If people want us to contribute to our economy, then home grown stuff should be the absolute best. Thankfully a lot of it is, although I don't see why I should think of the economy before making sure I get a good deal, I pay plenty in tax and it's not like I even earn that much in the first place, and that's where any financial obligation to the state on my part shall end.
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Japan has a higher standard of living so it really doesn't make sense that their guitars are cheaper than US or European guitars. I disagree that Korean guitars are mad in sweatshop conditions - South Korea makes very high-tech items such as computer parts. As far as lining another country's pockets, the way I consider it I am not going to pay for something that is bad quality just because it is made in GB. It just happens that Tim and Steve make some of the best pickups in the world. My finances aren't limitless so I want the best value for my money.
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I#m only yankin yer chains :-)
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I've had time to think about selling the Nightfly, I will probably keep it cos its my only single coil guitar. Reading some of the opinions was interesting though. As far as the politics/patriotism goes though, only UK made products would make me think twice. I did have an Eggle as my first "quality" axe. That was a beauty, regret selling that. (maybe there's a lesson here!!) PS. the Nightfly has stainless steel frets, they do make playability a lot nicer, but I've heard to the detriment of tone (too bright)
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well, if you ever want to sell the Parker to a fellow Wirralian, just let me know :wink:
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going bak to quality of korean stuff(and mexican), in my experience they nail you wen it comes to the pots and electronics in genral.the pots and pickups are sometimes cr@p.i spose it depends wat you pay. i would just replace the pots and pick ups on a korean guitar and then youve got something thats as good if not better(if you get BKP's :) ) than an american model.
i dont no if someones already put this coz i dint read all the posts but this is just my opinion.
im so not with it today :?
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Homework homework homework!
All models from all countries have different positives and minus's.
Why do you have to sift through MANY Gibsons to find 1 good one (for that kinda money)? for example. Yet they hold good value.
ESP probably make a great guitar with the Eclipse for example.
My findings is that Japanese guitars are VERY well made. The japanese may NOT be innovators of any shape or form but they do tend to provide better quality/workmanship. Their ethics and work practice is very different.
Europeans are not much different to US.
For example, Ducati and Ferrari have THE WORST electrical ever (I come from automotive background as does father and grandfather etc.). Yet they both command high premiums! Why, cos the name brand mostly.
Anyway, all subjective. Personal feeling of a guitar is ALL thats needed. If you want to be sure (more sure) of the quality and craftsmanship then do a little homework (internet is great TOOL) and find that all countries build good and bad, stunning and junk instruments, just depends on your research.
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I'd also say that it depends which US brand you buy. Heritage are supposed to be much better made than Gibson, and obviously PRS are better made than Gibson as well.
My PRS SE obviously can't be compared with a real US made PRS. There is no maple cap (although there is on the SE Custom), the pickups were poop, the hardware isn't as good (hence me changing to proper PRS tuners), and the quality of wood isn't as good - which probably explains why my SE feels really light.