Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Twinfan on May 18, 2011, 03:30:46 PM
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I'm guessing this may come down to a person's available income, but I'm wondering if I'm alone in this.
For some reason, I have it in my head that gigging is a risky business. Risk of theft, accidental damage and excessive wear/tear on a guitar etc. I play fairly aggresively/heavily, gig around once a month or so in a couple of bands and I use dedicated guitars for the job. I know it's not world tour levels of abuse, but it's enough use to make me think about it.
YC/DC dictates that I have to use an SG so that's a no-brainer, plus we play in Eb, so I have the (replacable) SGR dedicated to that job. In my covers band I use my Fender CS Esquire and PRS McCarty Korina, but I have other guitars that I could use instead (Fender CS Tele and PRS Modern Eagle/Pearly Gates LP). They would be harder to replace if the worst happened (due to rarity or my personal attachment to them), and I'd be SERIOUSLY gutted if I lost them, but as they're my preferred guitars it would be nice to free up some cash by selling the Esquire/McCarty and enjoying my favourite guitars in a live environment.
I guess the question is am I worrying too much, and should I just use the tools as they were intended? Or is the risk averse approach of dedicated working guitars a sensible one?
Any thoughts?
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Do you have insurance? If all your top guitars were insured with dedicated instrument insurance you would at least get the cash back if the worst happened.
If I had your Les Paul, I would use it, lifes too short not to enjoy these things but I would have it insured and for the dodgy gigs (like Stockport market on the side of a truck) I'd have backup, but something fairly cheap like an Epi LP with decent pickups or a second hand Japanese Tokai.
Just play em!
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I gave this some thought when my band reformed earlier this year.
I still have the guitars I used when I was playing professionally and they have a few battle scars between them. (They wear them with pride)
I don't really play them anymore, and wanted to use the guitars I use now (and love).
I hesitated as I would like to keep them as nice as possible, but in the end I decided they were the best tools for the job.
I'll try and be as careful as possible, but am prepared to accept that they will get a bit more wear than if I just used them in my studio.
The guitars are Ibanez PGM 301 and 500 for reference, do not quite in the league as your quiver Twinfan.
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oops, sorry. `Double post
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Well if you take it up a level (or three :wink: ), I'd guess Joe Perry or Rick Nielsen have "workhorse" guitars for gigging and leave their really valuable old Gibsons at home. And presumably John 5 doesn't take his early-'50s Tele collection on tour. I don't think even Angus uses his original SG on stage any more. Then on the other hand there's Yngwie....
In the unlikely event that I was to start gigging, I'd use my Epiphone or Edwards Les Paul Juniors rather than, say, a PRS. That'd be more to do with being less worried about dinging the Juniors, not because of their value (I actually have more sentimental attachment to my cheap guitars than the more expensive ones).
I think you're going to get lots of "gig 'em, they're just tools" answers.... :lol:
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There are 'gigs' and 'gigs' - some places the risk is fairly low - others, well... You'd be back to your Chinese Epiphone!
I guess you have to assess this beforehand, take into account the sounds that you need and then pick your tool accordingly
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for me a guitar is to be used - if its sitting in the house as a 'sofa' guitar for noodling then its wasted (I'm thinking purely in 'gigging' terms here, I realise there are people who don't gig and have guitars at home to enjoy).
as previously mentioned, if you're worried about taking your more expensive guitars out to gig with, get them insured - I've done this before (the whole band's gear was insured under the policy for theft/damage).
to my mind having such nice guitars as you have sitting at home is madness - gig them or move them on.
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I gig both my Gibson Les Paul and SG and I play rough and heavy handed with them. The only other guitar I have is a Jackson Kelly and that never sees any action, its just there incase I fancy some Whammy bar action.
Those two guitars pretty much cover me for anything that I need and other than a decent Strat or Tele (and an acoustic) I don't really want anything else in my arsenal. Yeah, it'd be great to own a load of other guitars but I dont NEED them.
My vote is just play and beat them and enjoy them as they should be. Surely owning those guitars and not gigging them/taking them out the house is like owning a Ferrari and never taking it out of the cul-de-sac?
Paddy
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Whilst I don't do gigs as such I'm a veteran of many a pub jam which is even worse as guitars get passed around between beery enthusiasts and get banged on tables chairs etc. But I still happily take expensive guitars out and put up with the odd ding because I like to see people playing my gear. I've noticed that people who take great care of their axes don't tend to really go for it.
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Am in two minds on this.
I gig mainly with my duesy 49er
Plexi dan amrstrong
Both over grand guitars and swap out plexi for my cheap sd curlie.
But I won't take out my guild bluesbird in case I damage it.
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My Patrick Eggle is out on long term loan and is going to get some gigging under it's belt. It was a almost as new condition when it went out and I'm expecting it to return with ding or two, but I don't mind that much.
At the end of the day, it's a bit of wood with some wire on it...... although it's a considerably cheaper bit of wood than Daves.
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Can I mention the "R" word....?
This is where Relics come into their own, isn't it? Yes they're valuable, so the getting-nicked worry still applies, but they are (relatively) replaceable and it doesn't matter at all if they pick up a few scr@pes and dings.
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I gig with my customstrat and american series tele. They are my workhorses and that's what they are made for. But I guard them in the breaks between the sets, because they are irreplaceble. I've grown into the neckfeel etc. And they are BKP'd. So I much not think of coming back and suddenly a guitar has left the building.
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Ah the "R" word. The irony therein is that if I were to play someone's expensive relic and put a new ding in it they'd go bloody mad.
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Gig them.
I have an ibanez backup I haven't even looked at for months - I only play/record/practice/gig with my WezV custom. It's there to be played!
I play my guitar hard. I'm sure Wez will cringe if he sees videos of me playing - that's why I'm getting through so many damned picks, and V-picks simply aren't hard enough, but that's what it's for! I put it in the case as soon as I'm done playing, so the risk of damage is as minimal as it can be. I also have insurance, because I really can't afford to replace it, but I'll be damned if it's going to sit at home while I play something else out in front of people - that just goes completely against the grain for me.
I think the builders on here should probably listened to, though, rather than some grindcore monkey like me (is grindcore what we are? I really don't know).
Roo
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Ah the "R" word. The irony therein is that if I were to play someone's expensive relic and put a new ding in it they'd go bloody mad.
Do you think so?
Thinking about it.... scratches: OK, a huge gouge in the body or chip in the headstock: Not OK.
And of course there's the back of the neck - they age it and dirty it up, but they don't put dings in it because it interferes with the playing experience. So you don't want anyone $%&#ing that up.
Yes, on reflection you're probably right. :wink:
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I haven't gigged for years, and never regarded any gig as a risk back then... added to that my big hero was Rory Gallagher... so go figure what I might say! :lol:
I've had a good ole think about this though. I've got a lot of guitars, but none of them cost over a grand (and the one that nearly did I stripped and refinished myself :lol:). I'd happily take any one of them out. In fact, I'd have to take my favourite for whatever tone I was needing, or however I was wanting to show off that night.
A bit like tom, if I had your LP, and it rang my bell, I'd have to take it out if the gig wanted humbuckery from me. It would be my guitar, as a musician my guitar is part of me, I can't show up to be a musician without part of me. I'd want to use the best one I owned (the one that made me sound and look the best for what I was trying to achieve). This applies to any of my guitars I've bonded with in this way. Some of the others are just tools for a job at the moment (but using them for a couple of hours in a gig would probably form the bond...).
But there is something else about my guitars that might shock/horrify some... They are only guitars, even the ones I love and regard as part of me when I wear them. They're just consumable "stuff" like the rest of the stuff I own. They don't even have any resale value in my mind - each time I buy one I'm disposing of that income right there and then to own the guitar and play it. I'll keep them operational and cuddle them etc, but when they're gone they're gone and I'll get another to replace if I need to. So, yeah, there's no reason for me not to take the thing out, bounce it on the floor for effect during the encore, lean it against a bar-stool while talking to a drunk, etc :lol:
I've realised while thinking this through though, that this might be one of the reasons why I've got a notional "maximum" I'll pay for a guitar... I want lots of guitars for different jobs, not one or two "special ones". So, while I'd love to own something like your LP, I can't really see how I'm gonna go out and get me one... It's probably one of the reasons that PRS is off my chart - the only ones that give me any sort of "ooo, cute" (eg your blue thing) all seem to cost way over what I'm personally prepared to pay for any guitar.
Anyway, that's just me... there ain't nothing wrong with other people's approach as far as I'm concerned. I'm even happy with big stars using copies of their iconic instrument because they don't want to take the original out but want to present the same image. Somehow I don't imagine Rory would have done this, but if he was still with us and he'd got his old strat copied well enough to fool us in the stalls... well, so what? :D (would have p1ssed me off when I was 18 reaching up to touch the holy relic though! :lol:)
So, yeah, don't worry about it Dave - some of us would have to gig one of your most precious guitars if we owned it, but probably most of us don't really have an issue if you'd rather not risk it and therefore end up "keeping it to yourself". It's yours, after all, nothing wrong with owning guitars that don't appear to be "earning their keep". Just getting the bugger out, cleaning, stringing, really enjoying it, even for just a couple of weeks til the strings die, and then putting it away for months/years while you use the others... still plenty justification for owning it!
Er... what was the question? Oh yeah "dedicated guitars for gigging" - actually yeah, I would have probably, but for a different reason... image. Even if the sound was not quite right, when fronting a band as lead vocal/guitar I only really looked like I wanted to when I was banging a strat about with possibly reckless abandon and apparent lack of care for it (an LP would have done that job appearance-wise in my mind, but I can't play them so well, so that ruled them out). But when I was lead vocal and rhythm guitar, I felt wrong wearing a strat and wielding it like a weapon - that job seemed to need a tele or SG for me. In the studio I'd be using all sorts of stuff depending on the tones I was after. Live, I'd want one guitar with a similar back-up, and one more a different shape tuned to G if we were doing any slide stuff. I kind of like the idea of a single man-and-guitar image, it always seems odd to me watching these big stars swapping guitar for every song. So, actually, I did have dedicated gig guitars (back then though, I didn't own that many guitars so only one or two stayed home anyway!)
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I use my favourite guitars for gigging.They are valuable to me for sure and if I knew that a venue I was playing was a bit rough then maybe I would think about taking those that I would miss the least. Fortunately most of the venues are reasonable and so I take my favourite old Strat and my Gibson 339.
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When I was in a band and was gigging I only had one playable guitar so it was a no brainer :D
Now that I own a few guitars I would happily bring any of them to a gig, but none of them have a big price tag and they can be replaced as they aren't that special.
If I owned a really expensive guitar I think I would be in two minds about gigging it, but I think I would come to the conclusion that it simply had to see some action. Nothing like a "real relic" :D But I would take well care of it and probably be a bit anxious that it might get damaged in a critical way.
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An interesting mix of opinions - cheers guys! :)
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i don't gig but i would agree with you, dave.
I have all this nice gear that I've "justified" by sort of saying to myself, "Oh, well, if I ever do get a gig, at least I'm ready for it"... and then when I think more about it realise I'd be scared to take most of it out to a gig in case it got nicked or damaged :lol:
Even a lot of the stuff I have which wasn't *that* expensive I often got good deals on, so while it's not exactly "irreplaceable", I'd be struggling to replace it for what I paid for it. (Though I guess if I really had to I could just insure it for the "replace" value...)
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I have two Teles that I usually gig with, but for rehearsals I like to take along others for a change of scene
However I am facing hernia surgery soon, so some of my lighter guitars are going to get used at the next few gigs whatever happens.
I have a couple of Squier 51s, a Melody Maker and a Danelectro which will fit the bill.
Now I just need a lighter loud amp.......?
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I gig with mine, my main 2 at the moment are the Page LP and Wayne "Dave Kilminster" super Tele (the others are a '57 R.I Gibson Custom, Yamaha SG3000 and G&L Legacy). I always try to way up the risk but then go back to thinking that I've bought them to play, to bring ME enjoyment regardless of what others think. I do keep the guitars close at gigs and we all watch out for each other, but if you start to think too much then you wouldn't take your amp out either and that's a fair old chunk of wedge too. Would I gig Francine or the ME? Hell yeah........ it doesn't get much better. Funnily enough, the Page and DK are now feeling much better for the regualr use and I swear that now I'm tuned into them they sound so much better too.... even if I don't.
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I'm always a bit puzzled by folks gigging their cheaper stuff and not the good stuff. I've always gigged with the best stuff I had available and I wouldn't buy an expensive guitar I wouldn't gig, it seems absurd. Though I'll buy cheapy guitars on a whim for pottering about with in the house. I also play in several bands which share members with various other bands and we always let people borrow gear should they ever need it. They're just guitars/amps whatever. They can all be replaced and I whilst I look after everything, if they pick up dunts, so be it.
Then again, I've mates that go to pub jams and let everyone play their 50's Gibsons. One who regularly takes his two '59 Standards. I probably wouldn't do that...
EDIT: Also, while thefts at gigs happen, they're so rare as to not be worth worrying about. I usually leave my stuff lying about at gigs wherever there's a space and worry about it at packing up time and I've never lost so much as a lead. And that's been at hundreds of gigs.
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Then again, I've mates that go to pub jams and let everyone play their 50's Gibsons. One who regularly takes his two '59 Standards.
Is that true? :o
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The last gig I played (which was a while ago), I used my 1953 Les Paul conversion and my 1990 PRS standard. I'm not sure that I'd take the Les Paul now (but that is because of it getting more delicate and I've got a lot of other Les Pauls since).
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I gig with my favorite, best and most expensive guitar.
I'm not that wild on stage but I have jumped around with it, stood on an upright bass with it etc.
Most damage can be fixed.
I don't leave it unguarded. If it gets stolen, it can be replaced but I'd rather get it back. I have the paperwork at home with the serial number proving I'm the owner. That makes it hard to sell.
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Then again, I've mates that go to pub jams and let everyone play their 50's Gibsons. One who regularly takes his two '59 Standards.
Is that true? :o
Yep. The latter's son played one at a school battle of the bands, too.
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if I had a pearly gates or a real '50s Les Paul, I wouldn't gig with it either.
its good to have workhorse guitars but then you become sentimentally attached and don't want to gig them so much.
i don't really know the answer, but the guitars one gigs with have to have a certain amount of versatility, in order to play the songs you've got on the setlist - you don't want to bring 100s of the things, 2 max i reckon. for that reason i'm unlikely to play my WezV Firebird live, even though I use it very often at home.
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I'm thinking I'll keept the "workers" I have and look after the good 'uns by using them only in safe places. Francine isn't versatile enough to be one of my two live guitars, and I'm not talking three to a pub!
The Esquire and McCarty Korina will carry on as they are then, with the Modern Eagle getting the occasional outing...
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I'm thinking I'll keept the "workers" I have and look after the good 'uns by using them only in safe places.
To be fair, your "workers" are not exactly bad 'uns! :lol:
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Nah, they ain't too shabby are they! They're replaceable though, that's the key point.
Try finding a blue Modern Eagle or a Pearly for sale in the UK. I know of two MEs @ Guitars4You (amber and charcoal) but that's it...
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Try finding a blue Modern Eagle or a Pearly for sale in the UK. I know of two MEs @ Guitars4You (amber and charcoal) but that's it...
Should be easy to find if someone half inches then :lol:
Have any of yours got the security chips in (can't remeber what it's called now)?