Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: breadfan on June 20, 2011, 08:33:12 PM
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I'm trying to cover quite a lot of ground. I have a 50 watt Plexi clone that covers much of the classic rock I play, but it just doesn't get close with some of the blues stuff.
Here are some artists whose tone I admire:
-Billy Gibbons - He's believed to have used various Fenders & Marshalls. The tones I particularly love are on Brown Sugar, I Thank You & A Fool For Your Stockings.
-Peter Green - I know he used a JTM 45, & after that different amps from Fender & Orange.
-Rory Gallagher - A tweed twin was his main amp, as far as I know. Again, he tried a lot of other amps later in his career. I know his treble booster was a big part of his sound.
I have two amps in mind - a Lazy J 20 (Fender 5e3 style circuit with 6L6s) & a JTM 45 clone.
The JTM 45 seems to me to be the most logical choice, but I'm just drawn towards the Lazy J - the reviews are incredible, it has a built in attenuator & reverb (although both cost extra). Its form factor is a big plus too, and it looks the part. I don't know where I'd get a good JTM 45 clone either, possibly Ceriatone, then I'd go for a small cab, probably 2 x 12.
I want a nice warm clean tone too. I understand both of these I've mentioned break up very early but I'll be, for the most part, playing at bedroom-style volume, so that shouldn't be an issue.
What do you guys reckon? I'm open to other suggestions too. My budget is €1800.
& I play LPs & a strat.
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My default recommendation for this kind of stuff is a JTM45 as they're the biz. But as you already have the Marshall style covered, I'd go for the Lazy J. They'll be a great pair :)
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Rory Gallagher was known mainly for using an AC30 with treble booster earlier in his career (which is how Brian May started using AC30s with a treble booster), and a Tweed Bassman later in his career.
The JTM45 started life as a Tweed Bassman clone, and even used US-made 5881s. Marshall quickly changed to UK-made KT66s.
Virtually all the original JTM45s I've seen have had KT66s installed. Even the few I've seen with EL34s probably where originally shipped with KT66s as judged by the transformer codes.
Around 67/68 when Marshall changed their output transformers to accommodate EL34s (KT66s were run with much higher loading that the later 50W amps which used EL34s), and it's unlikely that many JTM45s were shipped with EL34s, if at all.
So if you do want to get a JTM45 style amp, then, in my view, you should get one that uses eithe 5881/6L6s, or (better in my opinion) KT66s. A JTM45 with EL34s will sound very similar to your 50W Plexi.
There are plenty of companies making JTM45 "clones" that use these valves.
The 5E3 Deluxe is a great amp, and again there are plenty of builders making either clones, or hot rodded versions of this amp (I can think of 5 off the top of my head in UK alone).
To get the best clean sounds out of a 5E3, especially with a humbucker loaded guitar (remember these were built to match Fender guitars), you will need to experiment with rolling the guitar volume down, and turning up the channel you aren't using!
However, both these amps will be very loud for bedroom use.
If you are after a Fender-style amp, it might be worth you looking at the Cornell Romany which has integral power switching (and no I don't work for Cornell!).
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With this budget, I would have a look at a (used) Fender Superreverb and Fender Vibroking. Tubescreamer in front and go. As an alternative: I know a guys who uses two Fender Blues Juniors Ltd on stage and has a great SRV-sound (if that is what you're after).
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I have a Cornell Romany Plus which covers a lot of the ground you seem to be talking about to me. I love this amp. An additional bonus for you might be that it also has power settings so you can run it at 10 watts, 1.5, 0.5 and .005 meaning that I can get lovely power amp overdrive at levels that won't get me evicted.
Below are some of the tone demo vids I've made with this amp, all recorded at the lowest wattage setting, some using a cr@ppy cam mic, some done slightly better. There's a range from clean to, err,less clean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4eG-DEEu8c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4eG-DEEu8c)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExKEtEMpnKs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExKEtEMpnKs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bELxxdFcKkQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bELxxdFcKkQ)
It's a Class A amp with very little in the way of controls: volume, bass, treble, wattage setting and reverb and if that's too much, there's a control for switching out the whole tone stack which gives more gain. It's a more Fendery style circuit and uses a 6L6 power valve which should give you tones that you may not get from your Plexi.
As a bonus Dennis Cornell is one of the loveliest people you will ever deal with, should you ever want tweaks made to your amp.
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Try Martin MJW amps. Martin can make things to your spec if you tell him exactly what you want.
He's made a few 5E3's in the past and they have the option of power scalling
http://www.martamp.com/gallery.html
There's a few guys got them round here, may be they will chime in.
I have an MJW Roadstar and it's a very nice amp.
The Lazy J and Cornell's look very nice too...
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For the sounds you described clearly a JTM45, Bassman or AC30 (or similar amp - lots to choose from). They are also good pedal platforms.
If volume is an issue you could drop in JJ 6V6 tubes and rebias the amp. Even though the actual amp volume will not drop significantly, its headroom will - which may give you the desired break up at slightly lower volume.
Cheers Stephan
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My default recommendation for this kind of stuff is a JTM45 as they're the biz. But as you already have the Marshall style covered, I'd go for the Lazy J. They'll be a great pair :)
That's what I was thinking too, but the the 1987 & JTM45 do sound very different, especially with cleaner settings. I'm also considering changing my 1987 to a 1986 bass spec. I already have the components so it wouldn't cost anything (assuming I don't fry myself doing it). I love the aggression of the 1987 circuit though, & I don't want to lose that.
jpfamps, when I said early Rory Gallagher I really meant mid-period, from about '73 - the Irish Tour album (well worth checking out for anyone that isn't familiar with Rory, as is Calling Card which was released a couple of years later) is a good example. He changed from the AC30/Rangemaster combo around this time. I've seen a pic of his amp on the Irish Tour & it's a 4 x 10 'Twin Amp'. Do you know if this is a Bassman circuit?
It's a 6L6 JTM45 that I was looking at. I don't see the point in getting another EL34 amp. & I actually thought that KT66s were the same as 6L6s!
remember these were built to match Fender guitars
That is something that concerns me about a 5E3. I haven't found many 5E3/Les Paul clips that I've been really impressed with. They sound great with a Strat but I know if I were to get a 5E3 amp I'd end up buying a Tele to go with it!
Telerocker, thanks for the input. I'm looking into the Superreverb & Vibroking. I'm not familiar with either. I don't want to buy anything vintage though & would rather it was hand built, for reliability. & I'd also like to have the possibility of modifying it without impacting its value too much.
Andrew W, cheers for the clips. That Cornell sounds incredible. Nice playing too btw! The Dubreuille Tele is a beautiful guitar. The adjustable power settings do appeal but the Lazy J also offers this. Is the 10 watts practical for anything other than home use? There's another nice demo here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyzrtzkjhwI The reverb sounds really nice too.
tomjackson, I don't know of MJW. Does anyone have a MJW JTM45 style circuit? This I'd be interested in, especially with an attenuation control & reverb.
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The Vibroking is not vintage. It's a custom amp and Fender's flagship. Sounds vintage though.
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There is no 4x10 Twin - that is a Bassman or a Concert - Gallagher used both and a tweed Twin as well in the 1970s.
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plus 1 for the MJW Roadstar
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Andrew W, cheers for the clips. That Cornell sounds incredible. Nice playing too btw! The Dubreuille Tele is a beautiful guitar. The adjustable power settings do appeal but the Lazy J also offers this. Is the 10 watts practical for anything other than home use? There's another nice demo here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyzrtzkjhwI The reverb sounds really nice too.
Glad you liked the clips. The model I have is the Romany Plus (10 watts, Accutronics reverb and a 12" speaker) which probably isn't powerful enough for anything other than small gigs without mic-ing it up which is what I'd do I think. There is now a 20 watt Romany Pro model that might suit you better but I've never tried one so don't know how it compares tone-wise.
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Buy the Lazy J, it will hold it's value better than the rest of your options, plus it will sound the dogs do-dahs.
Neil Young is a renown Deluxe 5E3 user and he to my ears makes it sound all-$%&#ing-right (that's a temesis that is) with a Les Paul.
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The 5E3 Deluxe is a great amp, and again there are plenty of builders making either clones, or hot rodded versions of this amp (I can think of 5 off the top of my head in UK alone).
Any chance of listing them? This is probably academic as I have no room for more amps, but I've always found it's really easy to find cloners of the british-style amps in the UK, but fender clones seem to be a lot harder to come by here... :)
EDIT: actually after making this post and totting up the ones i can think of I'm maybe at close to 4 or 5 myself... it's entirely possible I already know of all the ones you're thinking of :oops:
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There is no 4x10 Twin - that is a Bassman or a Concert - Gallagher used both and a tweed Twin as well in the 1970s.
Didn't know he used a Tweed Twin in the 70s, as all the footage I've seen is with a Tweed Bassman.
Thanks for the info.
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The 5E3 Deluxe is a great amp, and again there are plenty of builders making either clones, or hot rodded versions of this amp (I can think of 5 off the top of my head in UK alone).
Any chance of listing them? This is probably academic as I have no room for more amps, but I've always found it's really easy to find cloners of the british-style amps in the UK, but fender clones seem to be a lot harder to come by here... :)
EDIT: actually after making this post and totting up the ones i can think of I'm maybe at close to 4 or 5 myself... it's entirely possible I already know of all the ones you're thinking of :oops:
Lazy J
Wienbrock
Flynn Amps
Seeley Amps
Gartone Amps
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jpfamps, when I said early Rory Gallagher I really meant mid-period, from about '73 - the Irish Tour album (well worth checking out for anyone that isn't familiar with Rory, as is Calling Card which was released a couple of years later) is a good example. He changed from the AC30/Rangemaster combo around this time. I've seen a pic of his amp on the Irish Tour & it's a 4 x 10 'Twin Amp'. Do you know if this is a Bassman circuit?
It's a 6L6 JTM45 that I was looking at. I don't see the point in getting another EL34 amp. & I actually thought that KT66s were the same as 6L6s!
It's a 4x10 Tweed Bassman he's using. This is a very similar circuit to the JTM45.
The original Bassmans came with 5881 output valves, which has a slightly lower power dissipation rating to a 6L6-GC, but is a similar valve.
The KT66 is certainly not the same as a 6L6!
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Lazy J
Wienbrock
Flynn Amps
Seeley Amps
Gartone Amps
ah thanks, i hadn't heard of the last couple. :)
there's also that rosewell dude, but i have no idea if he's any good or not (just saw an ad in guitarist, or one of the other mags, once).
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if your anywhere near Leicester your welcome to come try my MJW's. I have a 36w Roadstar 6V6 combo and an 18w EL84 head.
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Lazy J
Wienbrock
Flynn Amps
Seeley Amps
Gartone Amps
ah thanks, i hadn't heard of the last couple. :)
there's also that rosewell dude, but i have no idea if he's any good or not (just saw an ad in guitarist, or one of the other mags, once).
Not seen Rosewell before.
Bottom line, there are a good choice of small builders making Tweed-style amps in the UK.
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yeah, that's true.
now that I think of it, it might have been the lack of blackface-style options available which I was thinking about :oops:
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yeah, that's true.
now that I think of it, it might have been the lack of blackface-style options available which I was thinking about :oops:
Gartone do Blackface-style amps.
There are pleny of SF amps out there at reasonable money (or indeed BF amps) that there probably isn't much demand for them.
Tweed amps aren't just expensive, they are also getting hard to find.
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yeah that might be it. plus since a lot of them have the reverb/tremolo channels i'm guessing that makes them a lot more expensive, which presumably keeps demand down a bit too.
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yeah that might be it. plus since a lot of them have the reverb/tremolo channels i'm guessing that makes them a lot more expensive, which presumably keeps demand down a bit too.
Yes, the reverb will add quite a lot in parts cost.
The BF tremolo uses an optocoupler comprising of a neon bulb and an LDR which contains cadmium sulphide and is thus not RoHS compliant, so you can't really use this in a production amplifier.
The Fender BF RIs now have a link to a PCB which substitutes for the optocoupler (although they still have the space on the board for the optocoupler).
Perhaps they still use the optocoupler in the US, although California have implemented their own RoHS regime.
Alternatively, you could have the optocoupler retro fitted, which is entirely permissible.
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ah yeah that could be part of the reason too. Thanks for the info :)