Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Mr.Coneman on July 01, 2011, 09:38:43 PM
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Okay, long story short, I left my last band about half a year ago, because I simply couldn't afford to keep up with the rest of the guys in terms of helping with recordings, and buying gear for playing live (we occasionally headlined and having to borrow amps was becoming a serious pain).
Anyway, I left, got myself a job, and finally am in the stable position where I can start spending some decent cash on gig worthy gear. I'm okay for guitars for now (Epi Black Beauty LP with 3 BKP's), so I'm concentrating on a new amp, and pedals. But being honest, I'm well versed in guitars, but I have no idea about amps and effects pedals, other than as a lead guitarist I need them. Jesus, I talk too much.
Anyway, I'm looking for a good hard rock tone, that when pushed can hit those 80's metal leads. The tones I would hope to emulate would be Gary Moore, Randy Rhoads, Slash, and I would really really love to be able to get that awesome Hendrixy/SRV/John Mayer strat tone. Though I own a Les Paul with a single coil pickup, not a strat (though I want a strat eventually). Essentially just the tried and tested Les Paul into a half stack sound.
I already have your bog standard tuner pedal, and a dunlop crybaby wah, so those are covered...recommend some good distortion/overdrive/reverb/other essential pedals. I'm not looking to create any kind of new sound scapes, just the basic blues/rock/metal tones. Please talk as if to a noob, because I'm a pedal noob. Also, I'm totally considering getting a pedal board...do I order the board and put peddles in later, or do is there someway to order everything at once?
On the amp side of things, I don't really know what I'm looking to spend £300-£400 would be about the max I would like to spend, but am willing to go higher (it would just take longer to save the cash) if someone really thinks they're on to the right amp. I am thinking a half stack, but feel free to talk me out of that if you think it's a bad idea (I've seen people say they are just inconvenient on here). The only amp brands I really know are Marshall and Hughes and Kettner, because that's what me and my singer played in my old band. I never really enjoyed my tone in that band, but that's because it was a Marshall MG and it sucked, and I never had any real peddles to control my tone. Seriously, I talk too much.
I understand if nobody reads this because it's turned out 10 times longer than I wanted, but any help is really really appreciated.
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I think something like a used JCM800 2203/2204 could do perfectly well for you with a boost for those moments you really want to push things over the top.
For boosts theres your bog standard ibanez TS9 tubescreamer which you cant really go wrong with if you dont mind the huge mid hump.
And that is where i would leave it.
Guitar, amp, tuner, wah & boost
and at a push i would add in a chorus & delay but i prefer to keep things as simple as possible.
My current rig is Guitar > Amp
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Thank you for the reply! :)
I'm definitely looking for a basic set up here, but I am quite eager to have a delay/chorus aswell because I would like my clean tones to really sparkle, but those would definitely be the only exotic pedals I would be looking for.
I will most definitely look into the Marshall you recommended, basically I'm hoping this thread gets a few good replies and then I can judge all the set ups and pick and choose the best. Cheers :)
edit: Haha, those sell for over a grand! :o A little out of my wallets league!
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I don't think you have much choise for a head AND cab for that price bracket. An orange dual terror will cost a bit more than that and still need a cab. Vox night train would probably need to be micked. Maybe Marshall Haze combo?
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Oh i didnt notice the price was for both the head & cab.
I would personally save a bit longer and get something decent rather than settling for the lower options.
i learnt the hard way that you will never be happy when you are settling.
The best advice i can give you is to go out and try a load of amps and see what you like then we can all advise a bit better if you want something similar but a bit cheaper
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Alright, good wake up call at least, I was being a little unrealistic in my price range I suppose! I'll just have to save up a little more and think about it at a later date I guess!
Also - Which is the better idea, get the pedals first, or the amp first?
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i would personally go for the amp first as its one of the largest contributers to your tone
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Thanks guys, you're really helping a gear noob here! :lol:
Alright...next plan of attack then I guess, I can buy a good head first (just the head) for around £500+ when I get the cash up again, and then save up again after that to complete the half stack with a decent cab (£200? I guess is a decent cab?)
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Have a look at Bugera (6260), maybe you find one used. Or a used Marshall JCM 900 head. Look for a 2x12 or 4x12 cab on E-bay. There are decent used Hughes & Kettner cabs around. A tubescreamer does the job in most cases, or a Marshall Guvner, Boss DS-1 etc.
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Blackstar, Peavey, and Bugera have all been on my radar tonight. I think I'm leaning toward the Blackstar ht100 though!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29esAeMCiCE
Affordable (if I buy the head and cab separately, and used) , and sounds bad ass!
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Both Blackstar and Peavey make good and affordable stuff; can't really go wrong with them. I thought the Peavey Windsor was an amazing amp for the money. You could probably get one used. It will do a great JCM800 sound, but not a lot of clean sounds. The Valveking is also popular and more versatile. If you want a combo the Peavey XXX had some nice combos, but I would rather go with the Blackstar combos then.
Don't spend a lot of money on pedals; pedals like the Digitech Bad Monkey are 90% as good as boutique pedals IMO, but cost a fraction.
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Blackstar, Peavey, and Bugera have all been on my radar tonight. I think I'm leaning toward the Blackstar ht100 though!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29esAeMCiCE
Affordable (if I buy the head and cab separately, and used) , and sounds bad ass!
Beware, a 100watter tube amp is WAY too loud unless you're only playing big stadiums. Even a 40watter may require some attenuation to get good tones at a manageable volume level (rehearsal, small gigs etc). Remember that with tube amps, the name of the game to get "that" tone is to crank the output stage.
Else I can only second Toe-Knee and Alex:
* take time to try as most amps as possible (without worrying about brand, power, price or whatever), preferably with your own guitar, so you get an idea of what works best for *you*.
* don't bother too much about pedals until you have your amp and cab, else you may end up with a pedal that don't play nice with your amp
wrt/ cab, you may want to consider (closed back) 2x12 or 4x10 options instead of the canonical 4x12.
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Like Big B. I can't stress enough that 100 watts of tubeamp-power is most of the time too much, unless you're playing big halls or open air-concerts. 30-40 watts is really enough for most gigs. I'm in a coverband doing gigs every weekend for 100 to 500 people and I take my Rockerverb 50 only for outdoor gigs (tents) and bigger halls. Usually I play a 15 watt tubeamp (Blues Junior) with some pedals in front. It's amplified by the PA-system and it works fine. Seldom play full throttle on the Blues Junior.
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Like Big B. I can't stress enough that 100 watts of tubeamp-power is most of the time too much, unless you're playing big halls or open air-concerts. 30-40 watts is really enough for most gigs.
I'm using a Fender HRDx (40w) plugged into a Marshall 1965 cab (4x10, low sensibilty celestion speakers), and even for an outdoor gig I never had a chance to use more than about 1/3 of the available volume. FWIW, I'm considering switching to a 22watter so I can get the output stage to cook a bit more without having to use an attenuator.
Hint: our drummer and bass player both come from Metal and we're doing a mixture of grunge and punk-rock... so yes, we do play quite loud.
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Check out the Cornford Roadhouse 30. Amazing amp for not a whole lot of cash.
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traynor ycv50b on thomann, maybe? that's about the only thing around the £400 mark that i can really think of.
and yeah, stacks are cool and all, but not so much when your budget is £400, you run the risk of getting a mediocre (at best) stack over a decent to good tube combo.
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Played recently the Laboga Caiman-combo. It sells for 599 euro and it sounds great. Maybe I get one myself.
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Cheers for all the replies guys!
To the guys saying beware of 100 wattage stacks ... :lol:
I really do appreciate that buying this is completely impractical, but you know what? I've worked hard in my job for just under a year, and I haven't really bought anything luxurious at all, I'm justifying this by saying 1. I deserve it and 2. It's an investment, if I do this right I will either never have to buy another guitar rig in my life, or will sell this one on for a reasonable price to help towards something amazing in the future. I don't want to faff around and buy combos now (I actually already have a half decent 30 watt combo, don't need another) and waste time and money by buying a half stack/stack later, this amp will definitely be gigged at some point also. Besides, I promise I won't play it any louder than the master volume on 2...maybe 3 :lol:
I'm pretty much 90% set sure on the Blackstar HT 100 now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29esAeMCiCE
It's reasonably priced, and sounds great to my ears, and gets rave reviews. It's out of my original price range, but I've saved up more money since last week, another week or two, and I could get the head used, then a week or two after that I can grab a decent 2x12 cab.
Thanks for helping me, I feel I understand the lingo better, if anyone can top this amp, for it's price, I'm more than open to suggestions.
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You dont have to justify anything.
you're a guitarist + you want it = buy it
that is unless theres some major issues such as mountains of debt or you have to live off bread and water for a year to afford it
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Haha, well said, Toe-Knee! :D
Very true though, I earn my money, and I'm not struggling too hard financially at the minute!
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Also i find the only time a 100w rig is really an issue is if its something that is power amp dependent.
most modern amps the majority of the tone comes from the preamp.
And an attenuator to bring it down a touch if neccesary wont harm the tone unless you attenuate loads
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Bah. If you're in love, you're in love. It looks great, sounds great and seems to get your wheels spinning. Just buy the Blackstar. Well, buy it after trying it in person with a cab that is reasonably similar to the one you intend to purchase and with your pedals, cables and your guitar. Less variables, better prediction. Good luck, man. Big purchases are exciting! :D
edit: What about those Jet City amps? They seem to be able to do what you're after and aren't priced too high.
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Besides, I promise I won't play it any louder than the master volume on 2...maybe 3 :lol:
Many (not all) high wattage tube amps do not sound good at 2-3 master volume settings. 100w is not usually needed even for gigging. I'm not saying YOU don't need it, that's up to you. But one should get a power level that suits the "needs", more than the "wants".
Cheers
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some high wattage amps sound fine at lower volumes. like metale says. try it out. don't worry
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Man how cool is this. I went on gumtree to find a used Blackstar for a little cheaper, and it turns out, a guy who lives across the street for me has one and is selling it
This was clearly meant to be!
Going over tomorrow to check it out. 8)
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(http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/vaderinvite.jpg)
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:lol:
I thought so too!
Now that the circle is almost complete I've been looking at cabs for a few hours...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-fm-412-4x12-100-watt-4-ohm-cabinet
How is this cab? I mean, it's selling for dirt cheap, and is a 4x12 made by Fender...it almost seems like something is amiss, like it should be a lot dearer, but all of the reviews for it say it's really solid. Should this be the one :o
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I would NOT advise getting the Fender cab.
Not because it is not well build, but because it is 4 ohm.
You should try to use the highest impedance taps on the transformer, ie 16 ohms.
You could rewire the cab for 16 ohms, but your best bet is a 2nd hand Marshall 4x12. You should be able to pick one up for £200 or less if you shop around.
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Thanks for the tip! I'm not too bright when it comes to the ohms and the rules with wattage and all that. So it's really good to be able to talk to you more knowledgeable guys. I'll shop around!
Oh, and I just bought the Blackstar HT 100 head :D. The guy wanted £500, and I was more than willing to pay it in a week when I got my next pay, but he told me he'd go to £450 if I bought it today, so I pulled the trigger and I'm now the owner of a Blackstar 8). I tried it out in his house with my guitar and it sounds lush! Couldn't believe the od channels!
I wanted to ask you guys about the emulator out, since I don't have a cab at the minute, am I able to run the head into headphones through the emulated out, without causing any damage? Pretty desperate to play it as you might imagine :lol:
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Nah you can't do that you need to have a speaker or a load box connected in order to use it.
If you search around on ebay you should be able to find some decent cabs at reasonable prices or maybe even get something nice and personalised from MJW?
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Some guys over at the Blackstar forum are saying the exact opposite. :?
Apparently you can *only* use the emulated out if you *don't* have a speaker cab connected. The emulated out is for recording, so you disconnect everything else, and go from the emulated out (it's on the back) into an interface (mixing desk or whatever) to record.
But nobody can give me a clear answer as to weather putting headphones in there will work/is safe :lol:
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Ive just read the manual and it actually turns out you can run the amp whilst in stand by without a speaker connected and use the emulated out.
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:lol: Yeah, I just checked that out myself on the Blackstar site, should have done that first probably.
I'm still cautious about plugging headphones in though, it doesn't confirm or deny anywhere if that's safe or not. :(
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I reckon it should be fine as it will just be a line level signal.
If you have an audio interface you could actually hook it into that and play through speakers/monitors that would be the optimal approach
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It's on my list of things to buy for sure, a mixing desk, but I don't think I have anything at the minute that will act as an audio interface :(
People seem to generally think that it will work, but I really don't want to risk it without an official word :lol:
Shouldn't be too many weeks until I can afford a cab :lol:
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why not email blackstar?
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I have done, I sent them a message on their contact us page yesterday, just waiting to hear back from it, but I know from emailing companies you're usually waiting up to a week to get a reply. Time to play the waiting game I suppose!
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I would NOT advise getting the Fender cab.
Not because it is not well build, but because it is 4 ohm.
Just re-reading this again, and I have a question. Well, I've just checked the back of my new head, and there are outputs for all sorts of ohm options (1 x 16, 1 x 8 or 2 x 16, 1 x 4 or 2 x 8 ). So It can run all of those options safely, and the Fender then would be fine into the 1 x 4 ohm jack.
My question though is, did you mean doing this wouldn't be safe (if you didn't know how many outputs the head had) or did you mean I might aswell go for the 16 ohm jack with a 16 ohm cab because it will sound better?
I don't know a thing really about all this ohm stuff, so does it make a difference in sound? Or is it literally just which cab type you can power/volume.
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The guys at blackstar got back to me, here's what they had to say.
Thanks for the enquiry.
If you wish to use headphones then we would recommend you use headphones through an audio interface or mixing desk as the emulated output has been designed as a recording tool. We always advise you have a load attached when using the emulated output to avoid causing damage to your amp.
Kind regards,
Tom
Blackstar Customer Services
It looks like it's probably possible to get some noise through the headphones then, but it's not recommended, so I guess I'll be waiting to get my cab then!
Good to know the answer at least.
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So I've just won the bid for a 120 watt Crate 4x12 cab, at the LUDICROUS price of £75. I now have a half stack that cost a total of £525 (the head alone should have been dearer). I should be on bargain hunt.
Absolutely over the moon!
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Lookin good, man. Lookin good.
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Okay, so that last deal on the cab went absolutely south (postage people lost the cab, furious). However the seller is offering me a full refund, and I'll have a little more cash for a better cab by the time that comes in, hopefully.
Can any of you guys recommend a decent 4x12 cab (new or used) that I can pick up for £200 or thereabouts? I know I won't get a great cab for that, but it's just the way the money is looking, and now that I've had this damn blackstar for over a month and still haven't played it properly, I just want a cab quickly!
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do you NEED a 4x12?
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If so save up a bit more and buy something like this
http://www.andertons.co.uk/speaker-cabinets/pid18737/cid690/jet-city-jca48s-4x12-extension-cabinet-with-eminence-drivers.asp?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping
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Strictly speaking I don't NEED a 4x12 , nobody does :lol:
It's just that right now, financially I'm a little better off than I've been in the past, and probably as good off as I'll be for quite some time, so I just want to snatch up all the gigging gear I will ever need in the next few weeks, and just never have to worry about it again when it comes to gigs, and everything else. I realize a 4x12 is a little overkill, but I want one, and (kind of :D) have the money.
I think, that if it's *really* going to take me to spend upwards of £300 like that Jet City cab, I might aswell go the whole nine yards and just buy the matching blackstar cab, I would just love to stumble upon a decent cab for somewhere in the 200 range. As unrealistic as that may be.
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Youre best bet is to keep checking ebay and the likes.
And just slowly add money into your pot.
You will either find an absolute steal or end up with enough money to buy a better 4x12
a 2x12 will be perfectly fine for giging.
And you can probably find a better sounding 2x12 in your price range than you can a 4x12
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x12-Trace-Elliot-Guitar-Cab-ONLY-one-eBay-/250871770695?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item3a691f6e47
there is that on ebay currently if its local to you
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Ha, I just browsed across that one myself and thought it looked promising! Though it's in England, I'm afraid I'm across the pond in Ireland
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/laney-gs412la-angled-4x12-guitar-cab/84173613
I think that looks like a bit of a steal!
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In my very limited experience with them ive found laney cabs to be pretty solid and good sounding
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Argh, I suppose I should really wait until my refund comes in for that amp.
To make matters worse, I tried to buy a pedal board online two nights ago, purchased it, sent the money, and woke up the next day to an email asking for a further £13 delivery charge. I told them they should put their delivery charges on their website before the purchase is made, and that I wanted a refund instead of the item. So they've sent that, and I'm waiting on it coming through aswell :lol:
It's been a bad week for buying things!
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My God! The delivery company rang me a few days ago to tell me the cab was found and would arrive on Monday (today) and guess what....
It did ! :D
Man, I practically ran home from work today to get back to it, my rig sounds amazing ! :D
I will get to posting pics later on today, and I'll probably do a video tomorrow once I change my guitar strings. Thanks to everyone in this thread for helping me out along the way. :D
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(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/254751_273488729333227_100000163067311_1388719_2505683_n.jpg)
:D
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And a clip! :D
So this is just a quick demonstration of the three channels. I play clean, crunch, and lead here. I get a bit carried away on the lead channel, so be warned, it contains wankage. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUhjxITXkgI
Love the sound of it though! Video contains the use of three Bareknuckle Pickups!