Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: schantist on July 02, 2011, 08:50:30 AM
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Just stumbled across this dude who "crafts precise mechanical masterpieces" at ridiculously small cost (almost too cheap...)
(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/terrorizer-siggery-review.jpg)
(http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/images/terrorizer-siggery-review-text.jpg)
Any infos or experiences ?
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Dang! What magazine was that in dude?
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There is also a guy on ebay that does black machine style guitars for less than £600
he always starts the auctions at about £50 and the last one went for £240
He only puts one up every 4 or 5 months though as he just does it as a hobby but they look spot on
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Dang! What magazine was that in dude?
It's Sick Sounds, they did one issue as their own magazine then Dark Arts (Publisher) pulled the plug on it so it's a bi-monthly supplement in Terrorizer now.
Schantist, is it still Jon Horsely writing/editing it? I've not bought the last Terrorizer out of poverty.
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It's Sick Sounds, they did one issue as their own magazine then Dark Arts (Publisher) pulled the plug on it so it's a bi-monthly supplement in Terrorizer now.
Schantist, is it still Jon Horsely writing/editing it? I've not bought the last Terrorizer out of poverty.
To be perfectly honest, I only stumbled across this review a while ago on another forum and thought it might be interesting to share with the pretty numerous Blackmachine community here;
never got my hands on an actual issue...
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Well, that design sure looks familiar....
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I sense trouble looming..... :(
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THAT is WRONG! :x
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Dave said it as succintly as humanly possible. Now, call me a hypocrite, but I don't mind old Japanese "lawsuit" copies of Gibsons. To be honest, I had a Greco LP Custom which I still miss horrendously to this day!
However, something as wholly unique as a Blackmachine should NOT be copied, EVER! Especially not when keeping in mind how strongly Doug feels for his work. The reason for the massively long waits for those guitars, were because Doug refused to compromise with quality and hire extra labour. These guitars are obviously his heart and soul, so it hurts me a bit to see them copied.
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it is a bit blatant, especially the headstock. the rest is generic enough to be no real issue
not sure though, the guy is a custom maker, supposedly a pretty good one. His website shows a variety of styles rather than a business based on blackmachine copies... very little original designs though - but that is true of many guitar makers
the odd thing is that he seems to have his own version of this headstock style, a combination of the blackmachine and parker fly headstocks
http://www.siggeryguitars.co.uk/siggery-8-string-heresy-image-4.htm
why not insist on using that, or at least insist it is used on the models that get reviewed.
tbh i have mixed feelings about this kind of thing as their is very little originality in most guitar designs and it is mainly the headstock that bothers me.
similar to accurately reproductions of 59 les paul's or vintage strats (bravewood owners out there!). The actual thing is all but unobtainable... this is the outcome
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here is another, even more blatant builder, actually going as far as calling his models 'BM'
http://nvrgoc.pondi.hr/html/index.html
again, its mostly the headstock shape, but this one has also used the logo plates and forearm bevels
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Les Paul and Strat copies may be dubious in principle, but those guitars are so well known they are the generic electric guitar shapes. And the copies have been with us for so many years, everyone makes them, everyone knows they're not the "real thing" - they're just a fact of life (and I like 'em! :lol: )
But this seems different somehow - it's a pretty blatant copy of a very small-production, high-end guitar, and it's also an expensive guitar in its own right. It feels like it's stealing Blackmachine ideas and undercutting them on price to add insult to injury.
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We can split hairs and say there is a difference between "replica" and "counterfeit"
I just feel that with Doug being a creative artisan trying to bring some innovation to the somewhat stagnant design of guitars it is a bit f**king rich for others to steal so blatantly.
OK, I understand imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery but change the F**kin headstock please!
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We can split hairs and say there is a difference between "replica" and "counterfeit"
I just feel that with Doug being a creative artisan trying to bring some innovation to the somewhat stagnant design of guitars it is a bit f**king rich for others to steal so blatantly.
OK, I understand imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery but change the F**kin headstock please!
Especially as Blackmachine have no logos or markings on the front of the guitar - it is likely to cause more confusion than say with Fender or Gibson copies.
I am a bit surprised that Marty (Siggery) would go down this particular pathway - especially choosing to have it reviewed in a magazine that Doug or his users/fans are so very likely to see - seems a bit thoughtless.
His earlier headstock which was like a Parker Fly would cause slightly less confusion.
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i imagine if this customer could have got doug to agree to a blackmachine build that is what he would have had instead
I must have been asked to do it 5 times in the last year as a british builder who also does the odd fanned fret guitar, and i have always turned it down as not really my thing (i.e. i know someone does it a lot better)
if i had to rely on guitar building to eat i am not sure i could afford to be so picky
I stole the bridge idea for the fanned frets, was quite open about it too. after building one with ABM's single saddles and feeling like my rear end was a bit sore.... well dougs idea of an ebony plate and wilkinson/graphtech saddles made a lot of sense!
this guitar is not a clone... it does not have any distinguishing blackmachine features apart from the headstock shape. you could argue that its a fanned fret super strat but i dont think doug would claim ownership of those ideas. its not super thin either.
its not going to deny doug any income, people who want a blackmachine and have the money for one will still struggle to get one!
i completely agree that the headstock rip off is bad form, the rest is just down to having customers that say"can you do me a black machine style build?"
i am not sure it is any different to copying a vintage fender or gibson... the blackmachine style is very distinctive and whilst it may be new its still very recognisable.... and more importantly, people want it, they ask for it, and if they ask enough people someone will build it
here is another builder who shows a lot of blackmachine influence (though, if you ask him he would say not)
http://www.hufschmidguitars.com/8strings.cfm
how about jaden rose building the similar style, but more carved???? is that bad form too?
the superthin superstrat idea is here to stay, and unfortunately i dont think doug will be able to fill that market anytime soon... but you can be sure peoipel will reference his name when its done
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Yeah I agree with what Wez has said above. The headstock isn't on, and he really should have said no to that, especially, as Feline mentioned, when Blackmachine have no branding on the front of the guitar.
But other than that, it's fair enough.
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Just before I got to Wez's post I was thinking "this is at least in part down to Blackmachine's waiting list".
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
its a nice place to be if you can sustain a business like that.
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
its a nice place to be if you can sustain a business like that.
It does sound a bit like Dumble amp and Trainwreck amp style selling.......
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I was watching a video on youtube with Doug talking about the copies, basically everything has been copied apart from chambering which is a secret he's keen to hold onto
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
its a nice place to be if you can sustain a business like that.
It does sound a bit like Dumble amp and Trainwreck amp style selling.......
maybe in future those blackmachines will command dumble and trainwreck style prices! if so, hold onto that gitter NFE! lol
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
its a nice place to be if you can sustain a business like that.
It does sound a bit like Dumble amp and Trainwreck amp style selling.......
The Dumble comparison is apt, however to be fair to Trainwreck, Ken Fischer never charged silly money for his amps. His production was limited firstly be the fact he was mainly earning a living doing repairs, and then in the last few years of his life by ill health, rather than by any desire to maintain exclusivity.
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i imagine if this customer could have got doug to agree to a blackmachine build that is what he would have had instead
that'd be the way I'd look at it. I can appreciate, in fact even like, the fact that he's not massively expanding to maintain the quality, but at the same time if people want something like his guitars and are going to have to wait 3+ years (going by nfe's experience), if he's even still taking orders... it's hard to blame them.
I found it hard enough waiting the few months for my legra.
:)
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Definitely. And there's not even been a waiting list for a couple years. You can't order one currently, he's going to be building what he likes and then offering the completed builds for sale.
its a nice place to be if you can sustain a business like that.
It does sound a bit like Dumble amp and Trainwreck amp style selling.......
The Dumble comparison is apt, however to be fair to Trainwreck, Ken Fischer never charged silly money for his amps. His production was limited firstly be the fact he was mainly earning a living doing repairs, and then in the last few years of his life by ill health, rather than by any desire to maintain exclusivity.
Thanks for the reminder on that Frank
I had read interviews with Ken Fisher and he said that he didn't ever see any of the money of his amps changing hands for inflated prices, and explained the ill health issues too (think it may have been in Dave Hunter's book)
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^ yeah i think so, i'd read that before somewhere too (and i have several of dave hunter's books) :)