Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: HTH AMPS on July 16, 2011, 12:31:42 PM

Title: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 16, 2011, 12:31:42 PM
Just wondering if anyone has come up against this before.  I gig the same Les Paul standard every weekend, had it for over 16 years now.  Last night the low E wouldn't tune against the A string.  If I got the E in tune in the open position, it'd be flat up past the 5th fret, and similarly if I tuned the E to be in tune up above the 5th fret, it'd be sharp in the open position.

Nothing has changed on the guitar except the strings - same brand as always (Pyramid 11s), just a new set.

Is it possible to get a 'dud' string that could cause this?

I'm gonna break open a new set of strings just to be sure, but this is the oddest thing I've come across for a while (save for floyd roses, but thats another story).

Any help/advice/experiences appreciated.

Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: AndyR on July 16, 2011, 12:40:54 PM
Yep, all other things being equal I'd suspect a dud string.

If you weren't MR HTH, 4.5K posts and all, I'd be thinking "noob! yer intonation's up the spout...", but I'm guessing you've got that covered... :lol:

I always check my intonation with a new set of strings anyway, but if they're the same make/gauge I don't usually expect to have to adjust it. Occasionally there's a duff one. I'll give it a tweak and put up with it. But I've never had a really bad one.

EDIT: Just had a thought, no chance of damage to the nut (or bridge) that you haven't spotted yet? That has happened to me before - it was behaving weird, and then a day or two later I noticed a big chunk of nut had disappeared somewhere!
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: 38thBeatle on July 16, 2011, 12:44:20 PM
I'd go with the dud string theory first of all too. I have , albeit rarely, had a set that wasn't any good and a change solved it.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Denim n Leather on July 16, 2011, 12:45:44 PM
Bad string.

I had the same thing happening with my D/G strings; would not intonate to save my life. Put new strings on, and problem vanished.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 16, 2011, 02:10:53 PM
gonna replace the string as that seems to be all it could be - will let you guys know.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Pete24v on July 17, 2011, 12:43:54 AM
i had the same thing on an ernie ball A string a few months back, bugged the hell out of me until I changed it
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness... (still not right)
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 22, 2011, 06:46:54 PM
ok, strings changed (E and A), no difference - still the low E that is out of tune.

this is doing my head in.

anyone?
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Twinfan on July 22, 2011, 06:49:40 PM
Bad batch of strings?  I've had the same problem in 2 sets before.

It happens...
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: MrBump on July 22, 2011, 08:53:19 PM
I had it, a bad string, and posted something on here about it a few months ago - when I bent the string a full tone, the pitch barely moved a quarter tone.

But that was the first bad string I'd had in 25 years!!!
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 23, 2011, 01:07:30 AM
I'm kinda ruling out the bad strings theory - its only the low E (wound) that is playing up, and thats two E's and A's I've installed now.

Any other theories?

Just to rule this out, I'm gonna buy a set of D'Addario 11s in 'toon' tomorrow and see if that helps - I'm really loathed to waste more sets of strings; I hate waste.

Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Denim n Leather on July 23, 2011, 02:14:18 PM
Stupid question:  Did you check/adjust the intonation at the 12th fret?
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Matt77 on July 23, 2011, 09:02:55 PM
Stupid question:  Did you check/adjust the intonation at the 12th fret?

Has the neck twisted? :?
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 24, 2011, 01:01:11 AM
Stupid question:  Did you check/adjust the intonation at the 12th fret?

Has the neck twisted? :?

I hope not, however this would have needed to have happened in the space of a day or two as it was playing fine, then out of tune within a few days at a subsequent gig.

no intonation check, nothing has changed on the guitar in 12 years in that respect - always used 11s on this Les Paul.  but fwiw, I've just checked the intonation and its fine.



Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: hunter on July 25, 2011, 12:12:23 PM
sometimes a weather change can twist the neck quite fast, check truss rod and intonation, check if the nut looks good, lubricate with some pencil/graphite, check if the saddle is tight or wobbly, pickup height, or maybe the tuner got loose somehow (happens on Klusons).

Gazillion possible reasons, and yes, it can be a pita to isolate the actual issue.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 25, 2011, 01:16:08 PM
This is baffling everyone that I've asked about it.

I've just got a set of D'Addario 11s and am going to try them in a last ditch attempt before handing it over to a guitar tech.  My reticence to do this until now is due to nothing changing on the guitar - same routine string change I've done countless times.  We don't have severe weather changes here in the north of England, its fairly consistent.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 25, 2011, 10:22:32 PM
ok, I've had a bit of a closer look at this and the nut slot on the low E does look a bit worn and the low E is rattling on the open position, so I'm thinking NUT.  Its getting taken to a guy up here with a good rep called Alan Brason.  Gonna treat the old gal to a fret-dress too.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 26, 2011, 04:51:35 PM
Ok, job done  :D

A public word of thanks to Alan Brason of Cullercoats/Whitley Bay, he repaired the issue with my Les Paul's nut today free of charge.  

It was a ten minute job of filling-in the low E's slot, then recutting it.  However, it was still his time and expertise he was giving regardless of how small a job it was.

Great guy, going back to get the frets re-profiled in a couple of weeks when we have a small break from gigging (August is looking to be a quiet month).
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: gwEm on July 26, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
this is really cool :)

i was tentatively going to suggest worn saddles, but in the end the problem was at the other end.

its great to hear you are rocking in tune again
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 27, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
this is really cool :)

i was tentatively going to suggest worn saddles, but in the end the problem was at the other end.

its great to hear you are rocking in tune again

It might sound a bit overly dramatic, but its like a weight has been lifted - really been stressing about this, its been my main guitar for 16 years now.  Others have came and went, but this one is just perfect for my needs.

Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: AndyR on July 27, 2011, 12:49:32 PM
Really good to hear it's sorted :D

I had a feeling it might be the nut if it wasn't a duff string. When a string starts behaving oddly, I always start focusing on the bridge end of things - I always do. But so many times it turns out it's the little bugger up the other end, sniggering away to itself while I fanny around with a bunch of other things. :roll:
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Mr. Air on July 27, 2011, 05:58:10 PM
Change of subject, but how is the MQ neck working out for you, HTH? Does it go well with the Abraxas bridge and why did you change in the first place? I thought you were on a one-man-mission to bring attention to the Abraxas  :D
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 27, 2011, 06:57:55 PM
Cheers guys.

The MQ neck is working out great, works that little bit better for turning down and getting cleaner tones (I get all my tonal variation from the guitar).

The Abraxas neck is/was great, but in a covers band playing anything from Lady Gaga to Ozzy, I need to be versatile.

The MQ matches up great with the Abraxas bridge btw, though at present I'm using a very similar bridge pickup from another UK pickup guy. 

I do still believe the Abraxas set is the most versatile set BKP make and I'd be happy to use them again in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: Telerocker on July 28, 2011, 01:07:22 AM
Good to hear your axe stays tuned. Nice guy to do it for free.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 28, 2011, 10:57:20 AM
gratuitous shot of the old gal feeling better now...
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: 38thBeatle on July 28, 2011, 07:21:00 PM
I am glad you got it sorted.
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on July 30, 2011, 01:19:11 PM
Ok, job done  :D

A public word of thanks to Alan Brason of Cullercoats/Whitley Bay, he repaired the issue with my Les Paul's nut today free of charge.  

It was a ten minute job of filling-in the low E's slot, then recutting it.  However, it was still his time and expertise he was giving regardless of how small a job it was.

Great guy, going back to get the frets re-profiled in a couple of weeks when we have a small break from gigging (August is looking to be a quiet month).


Great news Ian

Kudos to Alan Brason too - sounds like a good guy!
Title: Re: weird out-of-tuneness...
Post by: HTH AMPS on July 30, 2011, 06:31:26 PM
Ok, job done  :D

A public word of thanks to Alan Brason of Cullercoats/Whitley Bay, he repaired the issue with my Les Paul's nut today free of charge.  

It was a ten minute job of filling-in the low E's slot, then recutting it.  However, it was still his time and expertise he was giving regardless of how small a job it was.

Great guy, going back to get the frets re-profiled in a couple of weeks when we have a small break from gigging (August is looking to be a quiet month).


Great news Ian

Kudos to Alan Brason too - sounds like a good guy!

aye, he's one of the good ones - nice guy, knows his stuff.